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Sous Vide: Recipes, Techniques & Equipment (Part 9)

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#1 Rahxephon1

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 01:01 PM

[Moderator note: The original Sous Vide: Recipes, Techniques & Equipment topic became too large for our servers to handle efficiently, so we've divided it up; the preceding part of this discussion is here: Sous Vide: Recipes, Techniques & Equipment (Part 8)]

 

 

 

 

Hello everyone!

 

This is my first post on the forum though I've been reading a lot. I recently purchased a sous vide demi and I'm experimenting with it a bit. Today I bought a nice 1 inch thick fiorentina which I plan to cook tomorrow. I like my beef rare so I planned to do 3 hours on 50°c. Is my timing for this Ok? I'm not really sure since I tried the tough cuts on 48-72 hours and I liked them, also did some thin steaks (ex. porterhouse) for an hour and a half and they were not bad, but I read here on the forums that for more tender cuts it's not recommendable to cook them for too long, but I'm not sure what is best for an inch thick.

 

Tnx a lot for your help will post some photos when lunch will be ready :)


Edited by Mjx, 24 July 2013 - 02:22 AM.
Moderator note added.


#2 PedroG

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 04:43 PM

Hello everyone!
 
This is my first post on the forum though I've been reading a lot. I recently purchased a sous vide demi and I'm experimenting with it a bit. Today I bought a nice 1 inch thick fiorentina which I plan to cook tomorrow. I like my beef rare so I planned to do 3 hours on 50°c. Is my timing for this Ok? I'm not really sure since I tried the tough cuts on 48-72 hours and I liked them, also did some thin steaks (ex. porterhouse) for an hour and a half and they were not bad, but I read here on the forums that for more tender cuts it's not recommendable to cook them for too long, but I'm not sure what is best for an inch thick.
 
Tnx a lot for your help will post some photos when lunch will be ready :)

Hi Rahxephon1, welcome to the sous vide community!
 
See Doctor* Douglas Baldwin's table 2.2 -> 1¼ hr should do; in my experience cuts with bone on may take some additional time to be cooked near the bone, so maybe you plan 2 hrs. For beef, an additional  hour or two for logistical reasons won't harm, but longer cooking times may lead to more loss of juice.
 
* As of 9 May 2013 -> Congratulations to Douglas! :smile:


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#3 ChrisTaylor

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 02:05 AM

This one wasn't a win: sous vide lamb neck. 55c for two and a half days. The meat itself is okay but the cut is just too fatty.


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#4 jjahorn

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 12:57 AM

Well, thanks to a friend, my home made sous vide rig is finally finished - In Germany I was unable to find a home use one, only professional units that were too expensive.

 

First try - like most people I expect - was eggs this morning.

A disaster!

I did not calibrate it, but even so I wasn't expecting this result...

I set it to 63C for 50 min (Cooking for geeks suggests this for soft boiled), and was expecting whites to be set, and the yellow still runny.

 

Opened them up and it was the opposite! The yellows had set (semi-hard, it held its shape and was not at all liquidy) and the whites where a wet pool around it.

 

I thought the whites set at a lower temp than the yellow - so how can this have happened? If both had set it would have been better.

 

On top of that, I now know that the PID that I bought is accurate to 0.1C, but can only be set to 1C.


Edited by jjahorn, 08 June 2013 - 12:58 AM.


#5 nickrey

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 06:25 AM

That's basically what happens. The yolk goes like custard. The white is semi set. This is how a number of chefs, including Rene Redzepi at Noma separate out the egg yolks for their dishes. They wash away the white.

 

At this point, I crack the eggs onto a plate and brush away the loose white. you'll know it when you see it. I then put the eggs into simmering water to harden the whites. It gives a fantastic egg-shaped poached egg.


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#6 EnriqueB

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 06:31 AM

Well, thanks to a friend, my home made sous vide rig is finally finished - In Germany I was unable to find a home use one, only professional units that were too expensive.
 
First try - like most people I expect - was eggs this morning.
A disaster!
I did not calibrate it, but even so I wasn't expecting this result...
I set it to 63C for 50 min (Cooking for geeks suggests this for soft boiled), and was expecting whites to be set, and the yellow still runny.
 
Opened them up and it was the opposite! The yellows had set (semi-hard, it held its shape and was not at all liquidy) and the whites where a wet pool around it.
 
I thought the whites set at a lower temp than the yellow - so how can this have happened? If both had set it would have been better.
 
On top of that, I now know that the PID that I bought is accurate to 0.1C, but can only be set to 1C.

Whites set at a higher temp than yolks. Runny whites are standard in these low temp eggs. Many of us don't like them like that, so we fully cold the egg in cold water, then dunk in boiling water for 2/3 minutes, which doesn't affect the yolk much but sets the whites. There is also a fast method intended to obtain similar results using 72-75C water and about 15 minutes. There's a whole thread devoted to sous-vide eggs, have a look at that discussion.

You didn't mention the size of your eggs. Yolks of XL eggs should not get hard in 50 min in 63C water, but M-sized eggs in a slightly miscalibrated bath may do (time and egg size do matter, even though it was said for a while they didn't).

#7 PedroG

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 05:48 PM

There are two topics on "SV" egg cookery:
All about "sous-vide" eggs
and
Still looking for SV Eggs with whites set. My tests with pics
You also find some info "in a nutshell" on wikiGullet.
See also Doctor Douglas Baldwin's table In-Shell Egg Heating Times in a 75°C Water Bath Using Circumference or Diameter.
For "perfect" poached eggs see e.g. Comparing 16'/75°C eggs and 50'/64°C+3'/100°C eggs.


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#8 PedroG

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 05:51 PM

. . . .

 

On top of that, I now know that the PID that I bought is accurate to 0.1C, but can only be set to 1C.

What model of PID controller did you buy? Maybe you can select 1° resolution or 0.1° resolution in a parameter menu? If not, you might change to Fahrenheit so you can set in 0.5°C intervals.


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#9 paulpegg

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 12:28 PM

. . . .

 

On top of that, I now know that the PID that I bought is accurate to 0.1C, but can only be set to 1C.

What model of PID controller did you buy? Maybe you can select 1° resolution or 0.1° resolution in a parameter menu? If not, you might change to Fahrenheit so you can set in 0.5°C intervals.

The type of thermocouple is also important. Most PID's will only control to .1 degrees if you use a platinum probe PT100 type. You have to set the thermocouple type in the PID setup. 


Edited by paulpegg, 09 June 2013 - 12:30 PM.

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#10 ChrisTaylor

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 04:40 AM

A question about shelf life. I am following the 'turkey wing' recipe from Modernist Cuisine. I sealed the wings with salt and sugar for 24 hours. Then, this morning, I took them out of the bath after a 12 hour overnight cook. I have not opened the bags. They are still sealed. The vacuum? Well, I don't think it was a 100% vacuum: I'm using an entry-level strip sealer, after all. I put them in the fridge straight away. No muckin about. Anyway, I'm not able to give them the final sear tomorrow. Instead they'll be sitting in the bags for another evening (making it a total of two days from sous vide to sear/service). I assume they'll be okay, right? In terms of food safety and all. I'm a little paranoid.


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#11 Simon Lewinson

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 04:54 AM

Chris, I have down a variation on this recipe and left the wings in the fridge for about 10 days without an issue. I must add that I have a chamber sealer.

I have personally never had an issue with LTLT sous vide cooked meats if stored in a good fridge for up to 2 weeks. YMMV.

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#12 EnriqueB

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 05:22 AM

A question about shelf life. I am following the 'turkey wing' recipe from Modernist Cuisine. I sealed the wings with salt and sugar for 24 hours. Then, this morning, I took them out of the bath after a 12 hour overnight cook. I have not opened the bags. They are still sealed. The vacuum? Well, I don't think it was a 100% vacuum: I'm using an entry-level strip sealer, after all. I put them in the fridge straight away. No muckin about. Anyway, I'm not able to give them the final sear tomorrow. Instead they'll be sitting in the bags for another evening (making it a total of two days from sous vide to sear/service). I assume they'll be okay, right? In terms of food safety and all. I'm a little paranoid.

You have completely pasteurized the wings with that time/temperature profile, then chilled them fast. Plus you will sear them before eating, which will practically sterilize the surface (be sure to cover all the surface). They should be really safe for at least one week in a <5ºC fridge.



#13 haresfur

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 10:08 PM

If your temperature was high enough for pasteurization then you should be fine. 


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#14 jjahorn

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 01:06 AM

What model of PID controller did you buy? Maybe you can select 1° resolution or 0.1° resolution in a parameter menu? If not, you might change to Fahrenheit so you can set in 0.5°C intervals.

The type of thermocouple is also important. Most PID's will only control to .1 degrees if you use a platinum probe PT100 type. You have to set the thermocouple type in the PID setup. 

 

The PID is from a German company (Pohl) the controller is called A-senco TR11. The technical specs say display resolution 1C, measuring resolution 0.1C.

I have parameters for Hysteria, P,I,D, relay time, Temp calibration, and Autotuning. No values for Fahrenheit or resolution ;-(

I'm going to send an email to the company, but expect that it is not possible to fine-tune.

 

As for the probe - it is a PT100, but I think it is steel. After some research it looks like this type of sensor has an accuracy of 0,3K at 0C

 

Well, My set-up will get me started in the would of sous vide, and I will replace the controller when I find it is limiting me.

Wish me luck everyone!



#15 ChrisTaylor

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 02:45 AM

I assume 12 hours/58C, which came from Modernist Cuisine, would be enough to pastuerise the meat.


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#16 EnriqueB

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 12:23 AM

I assume 12 hours/58C, which came from Modernist Cuisine, would be enough to pastuerise the meat.

 

In fact about 2 hours should be enough. Realize, though, that pasteurization reduces vegetative forms of pathogens to safe levels, but not some spores or toxins. Fast chilling, low enough fridge temperature, limiting conservation time (one week at <5ºC should be Ok) and (optionally) searing all surface before consuming take care of that part.


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#17 rotuts

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 05:45 AM

Pork ribs are on sale for a week, 1.79/lbs.  Id like to try a combo SV/BBQ technique.

 

Ive done these ribs in the past just BBQ for 6 hrs or so, but would like to try something new.

 

after removing the inner membrane Ill season with some sort of dry rub w/o salt and SV

 

what temps and times are recommended for this stage?   then Ill finish with smoke for an  hour or so on the BBQ and add salt then.

 

many thanks!



#18 jmasur

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 07:03 AM

I've thought of doing the same, so I'll look forward to your report.

My usual smoking technique is to use the BRITU rub (Google it for the recipe, although I omit the MSG) and smoke at 225F until the interior temp clears 140 for at least 35min. That's usually about 6 hours.

My plan had been to use the BRITU rub, add a little liquid smoke, and to SV for at least 12-24 hours at 140, to give time for the connective tissue to break down, then finish on a moderately hot grill for char (500F or so). I don't expect smoking to help much as a finish due to low temps and the fact that the meat would already be cooked, although it's possible that hitting it with a heavy smoke would work.

#19 KennethT

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 02:37 PM

IIRC, there was a lot of info about ribs in the original SV forum...

http://forums.egulle...ndex/?p=1777784

ETA link

Edited by KennethT, 13 June 2013 - 02:40 PM.


#20 ishkabibble

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 02:18 PM

I've ordered & received some short ribs from Lafrieda http://lafrieda.com . Can I sous vide them in them in the vacuum packaging that they came in? I'll remove the stick-on label.

 

Bill



#21 paulpegg

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 02:27 PM

I've ordered & received some short ribs from Lafrieda http://lafrieda.com . Can I sous vide them in them in the vacuum packaging that they came in? I'll remove the stick-on label.

 

Bill

  Wow, at that price I would want to do the best job possible. You would probably want to add some marinade to them (or at least salt and pepper) so take them out of the bags and start fresh. I usually do Momofuku 48 hour ribs which have a really great marinade in the bag.


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#22 ishkabibble

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 08:51 AM

Well, I went ahead with the original vacuum wrap. 133ºF for 72 hours. Chipotle Honey glaze and broiled. Absolutely the best beef we have ever had.



#23 rotuts

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 09:09 AM

We all love pics of these successes.  well, I do.

 

congratulations !



#24 ChrisZ

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 05:24 AM

I'm after opinions on a food safety matter.  

I was cooking some chicken sous vide @ 58C, it was in the bath for about 1 1/2 hours, maybe more, when I turned it off but forgot to remove the bag.  The chicken stayed in the bath as it cooled down and then stayed at room temperature for another 6 hours before I realised it was there and popped the bag in the freezer.  

Based on the size of the bag (small) it should easily have been pasteurised before the bath was turned off.  I'm curious to know what safety issues there may be with the chicken, if any.  I have no problem throwing out a small bag of chicken if there's any doubt but just wondering what other people think?



#25 FeChef

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 07:39 AM

Pork ribs are on sale for a week, 1.79/lbs.  Id like to try a combo SV/BBQ technique.

 

Ive done these ribs in the past just BBQ for 6 hrs or so, but would like to try something new.

 

after removing the inner membrane Ill season with some sort of dry rub w/o salt and SV

 

what temps and times are recommended for this stage?   then Ill finish with smoke for an  hour or so on the BBQ and add salt then.

 

many thanks!

rotuts, with pork and chicken, a few hours in a 4% salt water brine does wonders with the sous vide method. Generally people say not to salt meats like beef since the salt draws juices out of it. But people dont normally brine beef, and when you brine pork or chicken its does the opposite and retains the juices. If you worried about being salty, 4% is on the lower side of most brines, but if your concerned, just rinse the ribs off good  after you remove them from the brine.



#26 EnriqueB

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 11:56 PM

Pork ribs are on sale for a week, 1.79/lbs.  Id like to try a combo SV/BBQ technique.

 

Ive done these ribs in the past just BBQ for 6 hrs or so, but would like to try something new.

 

after removing the inner membrane Ill season with some sort of dry rub w/o salt and SV

 

what temps and times are recommended for this stage?   then Ill finish with smoke for an  hour or so on the BBQ and add salt then.

 

many thanks!

rotuts, with pork and chicken, a few hours in a 4% salt water brine does wonders with the sous vide method. Generally people say not to salt meats like beef since the salt draws juices out of it. But people dont normally brine beef, and when you brine pork or chicken its does the opposite and retains the juices. If you worried about being salty, 4% is on the lower side of most brines, but if your concerned, just rinse the ribs off good  after you remove them from the brine.

 

After numerous side-by-side comparisons, I stopped brining and even just salting before bagging, whenever I am cooking below around 60ºC. At such low temperatures meats lose such few liquid during cooking that brining really does not help much, but it changes meat texture. I didn't realize until I did side-by-side tests with the same pieces cut in two. Meat salted after cooking SV retains a "fresh" feeling, with meat threads clearly splitting between your teeth, whereas pre-salted or brined, even in low concentrations, disolves myosin and other salt-soluble proteins that glue meat threads together and produces a kind of sausage/cured meat texture. Only slightly, of course, and you may like it or want that texture at times. For example, it's nice if you are going to eat the meat cold and slice it thin, e.g. for sandwiches. But I don't want that texture for most hot meat meals.

 

This effect can be perceived even with relatively short cooking times of about 2 hours and consuming inmediately.

 

I still do brine poultry and pork that is going to be cooked SV above 60ºC or with high temperature methods, as the juices retention predominates in these cases.



#27 ishkabibble

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 04:21 PM

We all love pics of these successes.  well, I do.

 

congratulations !

I froze several from 7/4. Here they are reheated and broiled with Hunan Smokehut Grilling Sauce from House Tsang.

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#28 jmasur

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 05:27 PM

The Seattle Food Geek folks have a new $199 immersion circulator on Kickstarter: http://www.kickstart...culator-for-199

On a related note, has anyone cooked a whole turkey SV? The recipes I've seen call for preparatory dismemberment. I have a large enough rig to fit a whole turkey (in fact, it uses the same cooler in which I typically brine my turkey), but the obvious concerns (other than a big enough bag) are air spaces and thickness. Almost seems like using a low sodium broth as the medium might work. Thoughts?

#29 gfweb

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 05:42 PM

SV of a whole turkey would be a problem as far as I can see.  Dark meat takes one temp, white another.



#30 jmasur

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 09:49 AM

I don't think I agree.  Dark meat can take a higher temperature than white without drying out, due to its higher fat content, but my understanding is that both are "done" from a food safety perspective at the same temp/time points.







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