84 replies to this topic

[slkinsey]

We really like Oppenheimer Prime Meats on Broadway just about 96th.

They are an old fashioned, full service butcher. Nothing is pre-cut. If you want a porterhouse, they bring out a whole shortloin of prime porterhouse, discuss how you are going to cook it, and cut the steaks to order.

The last time I was there, they turned this:

Into this:

They are my go-to guys for custom cut high quality meat. Their pork chops are something special too.

[Daniel]

hey thanks.. I would love to not have to give citarella my business.. Thats what i will continue to love about this city.. If someone is screwing you or not treating you correctly, you dont have to put up with it. Many other fish in the C. Good bye citarella, hello oppenheimer.

edit to add..That is if you could tell me a suitable fish market in the area too

Edited by Daniel, 06 June 2005 - 12:40 PM.

[juuceman]

THE FRENCH BUTCHER

The most horrible experience I have ever had shopping for food.

i don't think you can sell even the finest of anything with a bad attitude.  I'll always go to the farmers market for meat, now. or Les Halles.......

Marlena.

the French Butcher closed up shop a year or two ago.. the shop was taken over by someone else, I believe it's currently called Grammercy Prime Meats, or something along those lines.. the meat is still pretty good quality- definitely better than the supermarket, and i've never had anything but great service there- they happily deboned and rolled a leg of lamb for me- was great..

good luck getting beef at the Green Market.. you're much better off going to Florent if you're going to travel at all..

[JosephB]

I have been having problems with the butchers at citarella on the UWS recently... I think these people are more like glorified meat wrappers then real butchers..   Wether i buy a duck or some turkey breasts, depending on who you get, they piss and moan about having to do anything.. One guy last week tried to charge me an extra five bucks to debone a duck.. He eventually refused to do it at all because that was a specialty order..   I also bought natural sausage casings from them and this guy came up with this ridiculous arbitrary price there.. Based on nothing..

I must say the fish department is really good and the people are friendly.. But if you feel like getting anything other then a pre-cut steak or maybe some chopped meat, those lazy bastards at the meat department will most likely not do it..  This is not to say all of them, but i can say it for three of them for sure..

edit to add: the fish department is really good, except i cant believe they have crawfish at 9.99 a pound..

I have found that it's the meat guys at the UWS Citerella who know their trade well, while the fish guys are mostly order takers. I agree that the meat guys don't welcome orders that they can't fill straight from the stuff on display.

Though I'm not sure at what point a butchering request requires a special advance order (the extra charge is bogus). Boning one whole duck probably takes some time, but doesn't seem like an unreasonable on-the-spot request. I do think, however, that you may get some grief from any butcher if you make such a request when the shop is busy, and you're not a really good customer. So I suggest you establish a good relationship with your butcher, which has to be a lot easier to do at a small shop like Otomanelli's.

As for fish, there's no substitute on the UWS for Citarella, which generally has excellent quality.

Edited by JosephB, 06 June 2005 - 02:38 PM.

[afn33282]

Check out Florence Meat Market down in the Village.

Mitchell Davis, in The Art of Eating (the best food mag around, bar none, imho) No. 68 "Why, Where, and What to Eat in New York, Part II, Food Shopping" says the following:

He buys his meat only from Florence Meat Market. Been in operation for 70+ years. Little meat on display; butcher carries out primal cut, discusses it, and cuts desired cut. Will grind, pound, tie, etc. "The porterhouse steaks are the only ones I've found at retail with the true dry-aged flavor of steakhouse beef." Has stewing hens. Will make custom ground-meat blends for perrines, sausages, etc. Will lard, stuff, and season roasts. (!) Best to call order in in advance; the shop is small and the staff spends much time on each order. And: "The surprise is that the meat at Florence is usually less expensive than at other serious butcher shops around the city." Note: writer was a part-time butcher in high school.

Also mentions: Citarella for various aged meats. Jefferson Market (6th Ave. b/w 10th and 11th)--staff are "friendly and talented." Whole Foods, 7th Ave. and 24th St. and in the Time Warner building at Columbus Circle, have best choice in organically raised meat, but staff is not knowledgable. Salumeria Biellesse 376-378 8th Ave at 29th St., Chelsea (212.736.7376) has excellent fresh, cured, and dried sausages. The only local source for guanciale (pork jowl), which is cured in-house. And they make custom sausage blends for many Manhattan restaurants. Faico's Pork Store at 260 Bleeker b/w 6th and 7th Aves. (212.243.1974) for "Italian-style fresh and cured sausages..cold cuts..and various cuts of fresh pork." In Bensonhurst, Brooklyn, the Bari Pork Store at 158 Ave. U at W. 7th St. (718,372,6405) calls itself "the king of sausage". Kurowycky Meat Products at 124 First Ave. b/w 7th St. and St. Mark's Place, East Village, for Ukranian cold cuts and cured/smoked pork products, made in-house, in "what you might call a commercial style", but the quality of such is tops in the city. Try the kovbasa krayana (garlic kielbasa-ish) and the Hungarian-style paprika sausage. Concludes by saying the only place for pork belly or fresh pork liver is Chinatown.

The moral? Subscribe to The Art of Eating. 39$ a year, issued quarterly.

Best,
Chris

Edited by afn33282, 06 June 2005 - 03:27 PM.

[Daniel]

I have found that it's the meat guys at the UWS Citerella who know their trade well, while the fish guys are mostly order takers.  I agree that the meat guys don't welcome orders that they can't fill straight from the stuff on display.

Yeh, i have never asked the fish guys for cooking suggestions there, but i know they will clean and gut any fish.. And really thats all i need from a butcher. I have no time for a movie star meat wrapper.

By the way I went to Openheimer this evening.. I wanted to check it out.. The place looks pretty good.. The fish department was lacking however.. But had some essentials.. Shrimp, scallop,squid. And then had talapia, soft shell crab, and a couple of other fish.. But the meat will certainly do...

I was going to buy a hanger steak when the prix fix at aloutte down the street was calling me.. 22 bucks for a hanger steak with fries, an escargot appetizer and a dessert.. Who could argue with that..

[marlena spieler]

the French Butcher closed up shop a year or two ago..  the shop was taken over by someone else, I believe it's currently called Grammercy Prime Meats, or something along those lines..  the meat is still pretty good quality- definitely better than the supermarket, and i've never had anything but great service there- they happily deboned and rolled a leg of lamb for me- was great..

good luck getting beef at the Green Market..  you're much better off going to Florent if you're going to travel at all.

Thanks, Juuceman!

Perhaps I'll try the new happy-service butcher, along with the green market and florent....

marlena.

[slkinsey]

By the way I went to Openheimer this evening.. I wanted to check it out.. The place looks pretty good.. The fish department was lacking however...

Yea, I don't recommend them for fish unless you live in the 'hood and don't want to go to Citarella (of course, if you're really serious about fish, you'll go to Sea Breeze on 9th Avenue). Their fish is from Wild Edibles, and good quality. But it's more or less an add-on. Meat is the reason to go to Oppenheimer.

Honestly, I'm not sure I approve of the whole "butcher/fishmonger combination" thing. I'd rather have a good butcher and a good fishmonger separately. The considerations, skills, suppliers and connections for these two different types of purveyor are very different.

[ned]

Ottomanelli's may not always have the absolute best of the best like Lobel's is said to. . . but I have found myself a loyal customer there for five years now. Their prices are good, the brothers know all a guy would need to know about meat, they have lots of seasonal specialties, foie gras prices are significantly less than elsewhere in the city and they carry "b" as well as "a" lobes. I recently ordered a suckling pig through them. They got it fast, they got a nice small one and it--not that I didn't have a little something to do with it--was fabulous. They sell aged shell and rib steaks. They are also selling that wonderful (sorry if the spelling is wrong) kurabota pig. If one is in the neighborhood (seventh avenue and Bleeker, just around the corner from Florence actually) and needs a butcher, they're worth a try.

A note on Florence: their shop is tiny and their selection is not so broad. I don't quibble with the claims about quality.

Edited by ned, 12 June 2005 - 07:45 AM.

[paulraphael]

Admin: threads merged.

I used to buy prime, dry aged beef at Balducci's, but they're gone now. The restaurant chain that took them over runs things very differently.

Since then I've gone to Jefferson Market, where the quality isn't quite as high (and the price isn't either).

I'm not that impressed with Citarella or Dean and DeLucca (seem overpriced for the quality). One day when I rob a bank I'll try Lobel's, but I'll never be making a regular habit of that place.

I'm wondering what other places people like. Preferably in a downtown neighborhood. Thoughts?

[adrman]

Florence Meat Market and Ottomanelli's are both excellent.

[pups224]

Ditto.

I finally sprang for two NY strips for a holiday treat from Lobels (almost 100 bucks). Not worth it. No where near the quality of Peter Luger.

Skip Fairways as well. Looks good, tastes bland.

I once and only once lucked out on a wonderful dry aged poterhouse from Food Emporium on sale.

Good luck and report back.

[woofy]

I've struggled for a while too with the places you mentioned and then went to ottomanellis and was very impressed, I got a killer piece of berkshire pork. With the skin on too, so good. There beef looked great too. Very reasonably priced.

[paulraphael]

Cool, thanks. I'll check these guys out.

Couldn't find a website for Florence ... anyone know if they have one?

[slkinsey]

Per my post <a href=http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=4059&view=findpost&p=939190>upthread</a>, I think Oppenheimer Prime Meats strikes a great balance between quality and price. I also love the fact that you're not just pointing at a pre-cut piece of meat under glass. They cut to order.

[tim]

Hi,

Jefferson Market will order in black footed chicken and they carry caul fat.

Tim

[larrylee]

I haven't ordered from Lobel's just given what I've heard about the price. However, I go to Ottomanelli's as often as I can when cooking meat and I've always been happy. Recently they've had aged certified angus beef on sale (ridiculously low $15 a pound) and it was fantastic. Just cooked it up in my cast iron skillet with some kosher salt... heaven on a plate.

I went once asking for bones to make a beef stock and they pulled out an entire leg bone for me.

"Would you like it cut?"
"Ummm, please. My band saw is at the shop."

And it was really cheap, too... just over a buck a pound.

More recently I went back for some oxtail and ended taking an entire oxtail with me. Great guys, but they've been cutting their hours back over the years. No longer open on Sunday and I think they close at 6 PM everyday now.

[raji]

By the way I went to Openheimer this evening.. I wanted to check it out.. The place looks pretty good.. The fish department was lacking however...

Yea, I don't recommend them for fish unless you live in the 'hood and don't want to go to Citarella (of course, if you're really serious about fish, you'll go to Sea Breeze on 9th Avenue). Their fish is from Wild Edibles, and good quality. But it's more or less an add-on. Meat is the reason to go to Oppenheimer.

Honestly, I'm not sure I approve of the whole "butcher/fishmonger combination" thing. I'd rather have a good butcher and a good fishmonger separately. The considerations, skills, suppliers and connections for these two different types of purveyor are very different.

[mex]Agreeeeed...[/mex]
Do you think See Breeze has been as good since they reconfigured and Central went out of biz? I guess they are best for fillets and whole fish, not necc. shellfish?

I'm also partial to Esposito's as a butcher, but that's probably because I don't buy the fancy schmancy stuff, actually I've aged in my fridge before, works great...

[ned]

More recently I went back for some oxtail and ended taking an entire oxtail with me. Great guys, but they've been cutting their hours back over the years. No longer open on Sunday and I think they close at 6 PM everyday now.

I once made the mistake of asking one of the guys if they were open on Sunday--I was kind of in a panic about being able to pick up something or other. The response was unforgettable "Even God took one day off."

[juuceman]

I don't know of any decent butcher that is open on a Sunday. The closest we've come (and it's not that close) is the meat counter at Dean and DeLuca in SoHo.

To answer the question upthread, Florence doesn't have a website. They actually do a decent restaurant trade, which is a bit odd, as described above.

[raji]

Big Apple Meat is open on Sundays....

[DutchMuse]

I have done my share of sampling from various NY and national beef/meat purveyors. From Lobel's (my heretofore fav), to Jefferson Market (excellent), Ottomanelli's (excellent/very good) and nationally to Bryan Flannery in Northern California (excellent).

But I really reached new heights--might have even nudged out Lobel's--when I went to Florence Meat Market. How could I have missed this place? Its a lot closer to me (I live downtown) than Lobel's. On Saturday, after shopping at the Union Square Greenmarket, I trudged over to Florence Meat Market and bought two, 2" rib steaks, each to serve 2-3 people. The butcher brought out a huge rib of beef, took out a large hand saw, and proceeded to saw. Worked and worked, as the house cat explored what was in my packages from the greenmarket. I ended up with two of the finest, center cut prime rib steaks I've ever seen. Plus, the trimmings (beef cubes and short ribs) that were left over were also given to me, which I later ground at home and used to make hamburgers. Amazing. I roasted the steaks in my convection broiler. One taste and that was it. Steak that melted in your mouth. "This is the best steak I've ever tasted" said one guest.

This has made me a believer in Florence. Yes, I love Lobel's. But for now, Florence is my 'go to' local meat market. Outstanding.

[paulraphael]

I want to add a plug for Jeffrey's on Essex, at the Essex St. Market. I heard about them, and even though I've been more than happy with Florence and Ottomanelli and Sons, I went to check them out.

Jeffrey himself greeted me, and when he heard the kinds of question I had, he tossed me an apron and invited me back to check out the meat aging in the walk-in. He has a huge assortment of meats, including black plume and black foot chickens, Berkshire pork, lamb from Colorado, Australia, and New Zealand, prime dry aged beef (aged in house and to order from an aging facility) and lots of offal and exotic meats.

He made it clear that he was MY butcher and would get or do whatever I asked. I saw some 8-week dry aged strip steak in the case, and commented that I'd never had meat that was aged that long. He said, "well let's have some."

He cut a steak, let me season it, and walked it over to the George Foreman grill at the fish monger's stand next door. we took it back and at it together. What kind of butcher does this??

I asked him if he'd accept free labor in exchange for some butchering education. He just said, "grab a knife!" So I've now spent two days following him around and cutting meat.

The cool thing is that he'll really do whatever you want. Right now he has a small rack of rib steaks being custom aged for a customer. He doesn't charge for this (but you'll pay for all meat that has to be trimmed off, which will increase with aging time). I love the idea that if I plan a steak dinner for friends, I could conceivable have him age the meat for ten weeks, and my final price would still be no more than what I'm used to paying.

So far he doesn't do "artisinal meats." Meaning, he doesn't deal directly with farms and get seasonal grass fed, organic this and that. He doesn't have a big enough market for it yet, but that could change if he gets enough requests.

So, if you have some high end requests, give him a call or stop by. He really wants to be your butcher, and if he sees the market getting big enough, he'll be able to get in the kinds of products that could give lobel's a run for their money.

He says he selects all the meat personally. The wholesalers don't pick it for him; he goes down and gets the best looking selections he can find.

He doesn't focus on selling wholesale, but prides himself on helping restaurants in emergencies. His wholesale card says, in big letters, "Who Fucked Up The Order".

A great guy selling great meat. And they've been in business as a family for four generations, since the late 1800s.

212-457-6521

[weinoo]

That's a classic story, Paul. Jeffrey has been "my" butcher for the last five years, since we moved south of Delancey in '03. And I've been pushing him for that long.

Those chickens you mention are from Bo Bo Poultry, which used to have an outlet on a rapidly gentrifying stretch of Broome St. and had to close. Their birds are from farms in the Hudson River valley - I hope Jeffrey is able to keep offering them, but his market isn't exactly the Chinese community, which knows how to use all those strange chickens.

And I too, have been basically told to cut my own steak - when I wanted a nice thick rib eye and was handed a knife.

His American lamb is great - he usually has whole Colorado shoulders, which make for great lamb stew.

Check out this brisket I bought just this past Wednesday...for $2.99 a pound. Mmmmm, love that fat cap.

[hathor]

"If you find a good butcher, give him a kiss. They are a dieing breed." - Fergus Henderson
Or words to that effect, spoken at an IACP conference a few years ago and truer words were never spoken.
Jeffrey is fantastic! Perhaps crazy as loon, but in a very good way.
I was feeling sort of depressed thinking about coming back to NY and having to shop there. Sorry NY'ers, but I'm a little spoiled with lots of cheap rabbit, guinea fowl, great pork, lamb......
Then I remembered Jeffrey, and I felt a whole lot better.
His meat is excellent, his prices are fair, and he's always entertaining.

[paulraphael]

The Bo Bo chickens are fantastic! I made soup with a black plume and a white plume (great flavor) and then had my mind blown yesterday when I roasted a black plume. Incredible. To anyone who tells me they don't like white meat, I'll say "get a real chicken. And don't overcook it."

The dark meat was very good ... prominent, fresh, chickeny flavor. But the breast meat was actually sweet. It reminded me of heritage pork, where you can actually taste the fruits and nuts that where fed to the pig. I have no idea what these birds eat or if this has anything to do with it, but this was a delicious experience.

The breasts are small, sadly, since the birds have not been bred to hulk up like Schwartzenegger. So you might want to buy an extra bird.

One nice thing is that they come with the heads and feet on them. You can check the freshness by looking at the eyes, just like with fish. The three birds I got were exquisitely fresh ... probably slaughtered early that morning. The heads and feet are a great addition to sauces and stocks, though I don't have the stomach yet to chow on them.

In other Jeffrey's news, I got some 42 day dry aged NY strip steaks, which I refuse to shut up about in this thread.

[KennethT]

I've been a loyal Ottomanelli customer for a while - but I recently tried Jeffrey because of this thread... let me say that I'm definitely going to be a repeat customer there! The quality of their products is great, and everybody who works there is a real piece of work! Jeffrey himself seems like a great guy - after seeing my interest, he gave my wife and me a complete tour of the place.... and since it was our first time there, he gave us a "gift" of a 1# dry-aged prime NY strip steak, trimmed... the marbling on that beauty is just crazy... as someone said upthread - he REALLY wants to be your butcher!

BTW - my first exploratory visit was to get only 2# of pork shoulder - which is like $2/lb... and when the bill came out to $3.77, the guy said "just give me $3".... just crazy!!!

[KennethT]

On another note - I just got an email about Dicksons's Farmstand Meats... they source all kinds of meats directly from the farmers, and are only locally sourced... from my quick look online, they have beef, lamb, heritage pork, and suckling pig... supposedly all beef is dry aged as half carcasses for 14-21 days...

I haven't tried them yet, but thought I'd pass on the info... his website is:
dicksonsfarmstand.com

[sickchangeup]

I've cooked meat from both Otomanelli and now Florence. I think they are both great butcher shops, and in fact it's where I go for my meat. But having said that they don't compare to Lobell's on either quality or price - both of which are a lot higher at Lobell's.

The one thing that irks me about Florence is that they really claim the meat you are buying is prime, when I don't see how it could be. Dry Aged Prime Shell Steak just doesn't go for $17/lb, and the marbling isn't at the prime level (it's very high quality marbling for choice however). At Otomanelli my guy at least semi-admitted it wasn't, saying they just try to get the best meat they can for the by the pound prices they offer, saying sometimes it's choice, other times it's prime. That to me is sound reasoning, and I appreciated it far more than being told the meat I was buying for $17/lb without sensational marbling was prime beef.

It's a minor quibble, doesn't keep me from shopping there, cause it's still nice to measure your steak off a primal and have them cut it like they do at Florence. And you are getting good value for what you're paying, which matters far more than what the label says. But if marbling is your thing and price is no object, these two don't hang with Lobell's IMO.

I'll have to give Jeffrey a shot next time I saunter over to Shopsin's for a meal.

[KennethT]

I made the 1# "gift" NY strip steak the other night.... now, I'm not one to look a gift horse in the mouth, and I still say that it was a very generous gift (especially when my primary purchase was only $3), but I wasn't very impressed by the quality of the meat... It had good flavor and it was pretty tender - but it didn't knock me over like I thought it would... I had a dry-aged NY strip steak (well, it was a roast, but semantics...) from Fairway that was much better... significantly juicier and more succulent... and while anything is possible, I don't think it's what I did to it- I cooked the steak sous-vide to 125F (with only a few drops of juices in the bag after cooking) and a quick sear on all sides on an extremely hot cast iron pan... The sear couldn't have been more than 2mm thick, and perfectly rare inside...

Having said that - I will definitely go back to Jeffrey - but if I'm looking for really prime stuff, I think I would inspect the marbling first....