75 replies to this topic

[TheFoodTutor]

"How are YOU feeling" might be a fair question, but asking "How are WE doing" is patronizing as hell. It's a restaurant, not sixth grade.

Eh. I don't feel like it's patronizing. I just assume that my server must think that I'm Royalty. Happens all the time, actually.

Really, my biggest problem with these threads about "biggest pet peeve about servers" or "biggest pet peeve about the quality check," is that pretty much every possible way of quality-checking a table is disqualified by someone in some way or another as annoying, obtrusive, pedantic, etc., and by the way, it's not like it isn't already really difficult to come up with something to say. Like, let's say that we whittle it down to one way to ask if everything is delicious, or acceptable, or "OK," or cooked to specifications - one way that won't offend anyone, or piss off anyone, or irk someone enough to start some tip decay happening - then, how does one say that same thing, over and over again, without becoming so robotic that the tone itself becomes irksome?

And then you have to throw in the other side of the equation: The things that the restaurant completely disallows us from saying. For instance, I'm not allowed to say what our "specials" are for today. Do you know why we don't have "specials?"

Because all of our entrees are "special."

And yes, this is why I'm bitter.

[judiu]

"How are YOU feeling" might be a fair question, but asking "How are WE doing" is patronizing as hell. It's a restaurant, not sixth grade.

"Well, I don't know about you, but..." might be the correct answer?

[ambra]

I HATE the use of WE in place of YOU. But probably because I used to have a boss who would make requests that way. So obnoxious. I landed up quiting because of her.


I also had a restaurant owner (a complete maniac for many reasons) prohibit waiters from asking tables if everything was ok. He claimed it was opening things up for negative feedback forcing us to take food back to the kitchen, change orders etc. He wanted us to say, can I get you anything else? I think that's a little over the top. I landed up quitting that job after a week too for other reasons. lol.

I made it sound like I am a big quitter, I am really not.lol

Edited by ambra, 24 April 2009 - 04:40 AM.

[Chris Amirault]

The server isn't the manager, owner, or chef, so these sorts of "How's everything?" questions misrepresent the server/diner relationship. Given that relationship, why doesn't the server just say, "Is there anything I can do for you?" Then I get to say, "No, thanks," or "Yes, please do this." Fill my water, usually.

Edited by chrisamirault, 24 April 2009 - 08:31 AM.

[Holly Moore]

Why must the server ask anything at that point in the meal?

Further, why do servers consistently wait until one's mouth is full to ask "the question?"

[Fat Guy]

In a lot of restaurants, where the server has several tables to look after and is often in the weeds, the timing of the question isn't really a matter of choice. There's simply a process that unfolds: presentation of menus, taking of drink orders, delivery of drinks, taking of food orders, bringing food, circling back to ask how the customer is doing. This happens when it can happen, in other words not when another table is having an order taken or food delivered or whatever.

I don't object to the practice overall. I think in a lot of restaurants if the server didn't check in, many customers would find that neglectful. I just think sometimes the chefking-in language is unnecessarily bizarre.

[slkinsey]

Why ask "how is everything?" The real question, in my opinion, should be "is there anything else I can do for you right now?"

[Fat Guy]

I agree. Something along those lines makes the most sense to me as a check-in question.

[Holly Moore]

This is a case, like bussing one's tables at a McDonald's, where restaurants, over the past decade or two, have trained servers to verbally check with diners during their meal. Touchy, feely progress. Customers expect it now because restaurants have trained them to expect it.

Pity the poor server, already in the weeds. who pauses to ask "how is everything" and receives an honest answer instead of "fine, go away." Deeper and deeper into the weeds the server goes as he/she now has to deal with a table's issues above and beyond. Sometimes it is better not to know and figure on at least a 15% tip no matter what. Customers will flag or chase the server down if the problem is sufficiently severe.

Then there are the customers who, on many/most occasions choose to lie - "Everything is fine, thank you" - when the burger is overcooked or a salad is not quite fresh but they would rather eat and suffer in peace than wait for another burger to be cooked or get into a discussion on a minor issue.

I get that question maybe 80 percent of the times when I am at a sit-down restaurant. I don't think the question has ever led to me being more satisfied with a dining experience. I am able to get a server's attention when needed - almost always without having to call the restaurant on my cell phone and ask for my server.

[Fat Guy]

So is it the case, historically, that prior to year X servers didn't ask such questions?

[Holly Moore]

It has probably always been asked to some tables by some servers but I don't remember it as a mandatory policy in the 80's and know it was never an expectation in my restaurant in the early 80s.

I figure it had to be some corporate type at one of the chain restaurants that included it as part of the server training manual. I'm just guessing but it strikes me as something TGIFridays would come up with.

[cbread]

The "We" thing just irks me as the server insinuating him/herself into false chumminess with the customer. Presumably I don't know the server and probably don't desire the attempt at wheedling themselves into my inner circle.

Regardless, I'm more frequently bothered by, "My name is Joe Bob, and I'll be your server tonight". I'm not even sure why it annoys me other than that it is such a canned line. I'd much rather hear someone be him/her self than be the victim of a scripted performance. When the meal continues on in the same vein, with every part obviously designed by management, I am likely to avoid the place in future. I want my dining experience to be my dining experience.

[Julianne_Reddin]

In my experience of running a busy hotel bar (in Scotland)waiting staff check a table is happy with their food for several reasons. I've had a think and have a couple of points to make:

1) When you are getting hammered the only way to ensure that everything is running ok is to have a procedure in place eg, take food to table and follow up with checks after five minutes or so. When training staff this is useful because it takes a bit of experience to 'go freestyle' and as a manager you can then monitor exactly what it going on on the floor with ease. It is a lot easier to attract the attention of waiting staff in a fine dining restaurant as the atmosphere is quieter and the structure more formulaic, no chance of 30 golfers walking in wanting haggis and irish coffees at the same time as the group of locals at the bar want a refill. It sucks but it is far easier if you can schedule in a visit to a table than have them try to call you over when you're busy with someone else - and I hate to leave people waiting or wanting something! Bear in mind I wasn't just waiting tables I was serving drinks behind the bar, manning the phones, running the reception desk for the rooms upstairs and making coffees and preparing desserts to order - 60 meals a service with 2 staff members.

2) Cynically (and based on experiences of several difficult customers) some people will try to stiff a restaurant for a free meal by complaining after the event generally with an empty plate - obviously this is only a small minority of people but it happens. Asking during the meal means not only that problems can be rectified swiftly but also that this doesn't happen as often and prevents difficult situations arising.

3) You'd be surprised how often people (including myself) don't order another drink when the food arrives only to realise that they want one as soon as the waiter/tress has disappeared!


p.s. Though this is the case I can't stand cheesy questions and overfamiliarisation it was simply something that had to be done to keep service going as efficiently as possible. When it was quiet it was easier to gauge customer's wishes without being so intrusive and that is obviously the ideal to aim for.

Julianne

[bergerka]

Why ask "how is everything?"  The real question, in my opinion, should be "is there anything else I can do for you right now?"

Although it does invite responses of "yeah, clean my house."

...ok, maybe that's just me.

[Marya D.]

When I was in college I waited tables for only a few months at a time at only a couple of places, before I realized that it was the most vile demeaning work in the world. You may say that it depends upon where one is working, but I assure you that the difference between a fine dining establishment and a diner is merely the difference between being a call girl and a whore.

Waitressing is a kind of prostitution that involves a level of self abasement far beyond mere sex for money. While we sit here and discuss what, precisely, is the tone the servant class should take when inquiring about our meal, they wonder if they will have groveled up enough tip money by the end of the month to make rent; no insurance, no pension, no job security, and hardly a salary at all.

Let's keep things in perspective, shall we?

[Fat Guy]

Let's keep things in perspective, shall we?

Good idea.

Many of us are lawyers, doctors, salespeople of all kinds. Some of us are freelance writers. Whatever we do, most of us are probably not farmers or factory workers. Our livelihoods depend on serving the needs of our clients. I assure you that even lawyers making a million dollars a year feel a little like prostitutes when their clients make demeaning, unreasonable demands. And I also assure you that it's not the slightest bit credible to compare it to actual prostitution.

[Marya D.]

I know Steve, and you're right, but there were nights, walking out with a net of about 12% (we're talking about 1989 here), having done everything humanly possible, that you just felt violated.
Marya

Let's keep things in perspective, shall we?

Good idea.

Many of us are lawyers, doctors, salespeople of all kinds. Some of us are freelance writers. Whatever we do, most of us are probably not farmers or factory workers. Our livelihoods depend on serving the needs of our clients. I assure you that even lawyers making a million dollars a year feel a little like prostitutes when their clients make demeaning, unreasonable demands. And I also assure you that it's not the slightest bit credible to compare it to actual prostitution.

[Holly Moore]

When I was in college I waited tables for only a few months at a time at only a couple of places, before I realized that it was the most vile demeaning work in the world.  You may say that it depends upon where one is working, but I assure you that the difference between a fine dining establishment and a diner is merely the difference between being a call girl and a whore. 

Waitressing is a kind of prostitution that involves a level of self abasement far beyond mere sex for money.  While we sit here and discuss what, precisely, is the tone the servant class should take when inquiring about our meal, they wonder if they will have groveled up enough tip money by the end of the month to make rent;  no insurance, no pension, no job security, and hardly a salary at all. 

Let's keep things in perspective, shall we?

Your statement is very demeaning to those servers who enjoy waiting tables and do so professionally.

[Marya D.]

Your statement is very demeaning to those servers who enjoy waiting tables and do so professionally.

There, indeed, is the point.

Here in the United States we have very few 'professional' waiters and waitresses. The pay structure simply can not support that as a life's work. This point is further illuminated in that restaurant staff have some of the highest drug use and alcoholism rates of any line of work.

I am sure that I am not demeaning any wait-staff, by suggesting that is it rather distasteful to discuss how solicitous the help should be, w/o crossing the line into disinterest on the one hand or obsequiousness on the other, while at the same time not mentioning that the work is grueling and the pay miserable.

[Timh]

This point is further illuminated in that restaurant staff have some of the highest drug use and alcoholism rates of any line of work

Can you reference any statistics to back this up?

Other than anecdotal evidence. This is a typical stereotype myth thrown out as an excuse for a industry's shortcommings.

[Holly Moore]

Good servers in high check or high sales restaurants surely can earn a decent living. Professional servers do just that.

There are more professional servers than you may think. There are also many servers who, although treading water until graduation or their first big performing break, are self-actualizing and take pride in being professional servers.

To liken either group to "prostitutes" or "call girls" is indeed both demeaning and uninformed.

This point is further illuminated in that restaurant staff have some of the highest drug use and alcoholism rates of any line of work.

Are there statistics that support this statement?

There are some servers who go into the job knowing they are so above waiting that they try to let every table know that they are actors or college students --- that while circumstances force them to take such a lowly position, it is only temporary. Their tide will soon turn and no longer will they need to debase themselves by waiting on others. Fortunately they don't last long in a service-oriented restaurant.

[Dave the Cook]

Most of the recent studies are behind paywalls, but this one from 1997 does support the contention of higher drug and alcohol use among waitstaff and bartenders.

Correlation is not causation, though. The workforce in these occupations skews young -- another group known for high drug and alcohol use. Another compounding factor is noted in this 1988 study: bartenders, when separated out from other waitstaff, have rates as high as 50%, which surely skews a survey that lumps them in with their coworkers.

[Busboy]

Your statement is very demeaning to those servers who enjoy waiting tables and do so professionally.

There, indeed, is the point.

Here in the United States we have very few 'professional' waiters and waitresses. The pay structure simply can not support that as a life's work. This point is further illuminated in that restaurant staff have some of the highest drug use and alcoholism rates of any line of work.

I am sure that I am not demeaning any wait-staff, by suggesting that is it rather distasteful to discuss how solicitous the help should be, w/o crossing the line into disinterest on the one hand or obsequiousness on the other, while at the same time not mentioning that the work is grueling and the pay miserable.

Like every consultant I know, I refer to myself as a prostitute on a regular basis. In fact, as a highly (well, sort of) paid professional I often feel more unclean than I did as a waiter. And don't ask me about my years in politics.

Regarding the pay structure -- I'd suggest that, in major cities, at least -- the relative minority of servers who hit the floor the first time with an idea of becoming a restaurant professional have many opportunities to live a middle class life. It's not only the opportunity to move to high-end establishments as a server, but also the chance to move into management, to become a maitre d' or wine professional, or even to turn your experience into an ownership stake or a wine importing business. I know waiters and bartenders who have done all of these things.

The idea that you are not demeaning to wait staff is ludicrous. I can only imagine how you treat the whores now that you've become the john.

Edited by Busboy, 04 May 2009 - 12:02 PM.

[phlox]

I try to do a sort of non-verbal check-in once per course to avoid saying something ridiculous along these lines, because believe me, I have said some insane things at tables. Once, after nearly spilling a tray full of drinks, the people I was waiting on said, wow, that was amazing, I thought the whole thing would go down! I set the drinks down, laughed nervously and said, 'Oh, I have the reflexes of a panther!' and made a paw swipe hand motion. WHY?! I get embarrassed just thinking about it. A panther?! WTF? Sometimes when you're busy and thinking about a million things at once, things come out wrong! If, for example, seat 4 is merely picking at her cod while everyone around her is chowing down, I might ask her, individually, if she's enjoying her meal.

One problem I encounter a lot in waiting tables, though, is that so many people don't follow established etiquette/customs, which doesn't offend me, but it makes it harder to do my job. For example, I normally don't approach a table to take an order until everyone's menus are closed. This seems like a pretty reliable rule of thumb, no? But I actually have had people *complain to my boss* that I am slow even though I had been standing a few feet from them waiting for them to close their damn menus but not wanting to hover or bother them. I even went several times to pour water for these people, hoping that someone would say something to me to get the ball rolling, but they'd just ignore me! Many people also don't put their silverware in the usual 'I'm done' configuration which makes it hard to know when to ask to clear, or they'll put their credit card inside the check presenter without the top sticking out and then put their arm over the whole thing and then complain I took too long to take the check.

A lot of things that seem on the surface like silly Emily Post rules are actually extremely helpful non-verbal cues for service staff! I love waiting on people. Almost nothing, except maybe bacon, makes me happier than helping someone have a really special, relaxing evening in a restaurant. I am not, however, a mind reader! Help me help you!!

[GoodEater]

For some people who are excessive complainer the question should be:

Is anything OK!!

Stolen from an old joke!

[LuckyGirl]

Why ask "how is everything?"  The real question, in my opinion, should be "is there anything else I can do for you right now?"

Along that line, I find "Is there anything I can bring you" or "is there anything you need right now" far better questions than most of those that have been part of this thread. I also feel however, that there shouldn't need to be a question if the server is on the ball. Eye contact is a good way to determine whether there is an issue or not.

My peeve is servers who tell me what the special "is going to be". It drives me nuts to hear "the fish tonight is going to be halibut. It's going to be sauteed and then the chef is going to serve it with blah, blah, blah.

[kitchensqueen]

I love reading this thread.

My all time "favorite" experience was when my server came by and said "looks like you're going to be needing a 'doggie bag' for that". When I assured her that I wasn't (because our plates had only arrived 15 minutes prior), she came back 5 minutes later and plunked one down anyway!

It wasn't a high end place on par with The French Laundry or anything, but come on! Must we cast common courtesy aside?

[scubadoo97]

I guess my current peeve, because I hear it so frequently is "are you still working on that?"

I feel like Maynard G. Krebs. Work?

[emilyr]

My friend and I have been going to a new restaurant in our area, a chain called Ingredient. Every time they bring you your food, they ask, "Is everything looking perfect?" It irks me to no end. I've talked her out of going the last couple times because, even though the food is good, the waitresses bug me.

[violetfox]

Why must the server ask anything at that point in the meal?

Further, why do servers consistently wait until one's mouth is full to ask "the question?"

This is a great reason to do away with the whole business, as far as I'm concerned. It's a restaurant. My mouth is likely to be full a good percentage of the time, and it really isn't pleasant for anyone to feel compelled to make some sort of garbled response or gesture. I'd much rather be the one to ask for something if necessary. If I'm not eating, between courses or whatever, I certainly don't mind being asked if everything is OK.