76 replies to this topic

[Fat Guy]

I don’t believe our bill was lessened due to my wife’s distress, which would have been appreciated.

It also would have been the smart thing to do. Most restaurateurs -- especially those who own several restaurants -- know they'll sometimes have to comp or discount meals even if there's no fault involved. It's good customer relations and good public relations. At McDonald's, if a customer's kid drops a soda on the floor, the restaurant replaces it. It's not the restaurant's fault, but it's standard procedure to serve the customer in this manner. If a customer gets sick in the middle of a meal -- for any reason -- and it doesn't look like an obvious con job, the smart thing for a restaurant to do is comp or discount the meal.

[mogsob]

MobyP -- I agree with Bux that to no fault of the restaurant, a mushroom could have easily slipped into the stock, but also with FG that the restaurant should have done something price-wise out of good will. Really shocking that they did not do so (or at least offer you something price-wise on a return, like comping your wife).

While perhaps not Ducasse, Roussillon in London (SW1) currently is making Ducasse's Baba au Rhum paired with a glass of finely aged rum. I'm not a fan of rum babas, per se, and ordered this one more out of getting a glass of rum (which sounded, and indeed tasted, quite good at the moment) and trying the famous Ducasse recipie. The baba was extremely light compared with others I've had in Paris bistros (including a baba singled out by Lebey), but ultimately tasted like caked soaked in liquor -- not my thing.

[Fat Guy]

Also, they hoped we would be able to return, so they could make it up to us.

I'm hanging on to a thin strand of hope that by this they meant to offer you a comped or discounted meal on a future occasion. If not, I too would be, if not full-blown shocked, at least surprised.

[MobyP]

One has to wonder if one of the sauces used in a dish might have begun life as a stock into which someone innocently threw a few mushroom parings although the restaurant might not usually put mushrooms in that broth.

Exactly. My thought was the jelly on the foie gras - like a reduced old style aspic (with calve's or pig's feet for the gelatin in the bones), and Ooops, the odd mushroom skin à la Escoffier, with some madeira perhaps to make it fruity etc. Call it sangria jelly. It wouldn't take much.

And Fat Guy (when's your site going back up - that's how I got here to begin with) - to be, perhaps, unfair, I don't think we were the classiest table in the room. My suit was borrowed (though my wife's pretty stylish). I don't believe a smart MC would worry about us being regulars. Still, some Nobless Oblige in the right direction never hurt anyone. The truth is, it is exactly tables like ours that should be protected by management, because we can afford it all the less. We take greater risks, spend a higher portion of our (in)disposable income.

I think the man was asking us back so he could be generous. I'm just worried it's too late.

The problem with having an allergy is that, having taken all the trouble required to let the staff know about it - sometimes in a different language - you start to feel persecuted if it still happens. The symptoms are pretty specific. Oh well.

[MobyP]

Roussillon in London (SW1) currently is making Ducasse's Baba au Rhum paired with a glass of finely aged rum.

Thanks. I'm in London for the long haul, so I'll look it up.

[Bux]

The problem with having an allergy is that, having taken all the trouble required to let the staff know about it - sometimes in a different language - you start to feel persecuted if it still happens. The symptoms are pretty specific. Oh well.

I don't doubt that one can feel persecuted even if the staff takes all the precautions one could hope for. Even if there's no fault on the restaurant's side and no blame to be placed, life just seems unfair at times. I took ill early in the meal at one of the last meals to be served at Robuchon. It was also my first, and obvioulsy my only chance to eat there. As I recall I left the dining room for a few moments, recovered my color and a bit of composure. When I returned, I cancelled the rest of my meal and watched my wife eat for the next few hours. To the best of my recollection we were charged and paid for two tasing menus. Although we cannot afford many of these meals a year, it was the loss of the opportunity more than the cost that bothered me. Were the restaurant still in operation with Robuchon at the helm, we would have been back at our next visit to Paris.

It was clear that there was nothing about the food that affected my condition. I had been ill before on the trip that started with Lots of foie gras and goose fat in two meals at Daguin's Hotel de France (it was his final year as well) and more at Michel Guerard. On my return to NY, my doctor scoffed at the idea I needed a major checkup. "Crise de foie" was his quick diagnosis. I've learned to pace myself. I even order vegetables as a first course at times, not that I haven't still been known to follow foie gras with boudin noir and call it a balanced meal if there's fruit in the dessert.

[ballast_regime]

But has anyone seen the decor? It looks like some revisionist historical hallucination – think the French revolution run by Jean-Paul Gaultier.

The Plaza Athénée's interior was designed by Patrick Jouin, who is now Ducasse's designer of choice. He definitely bears the watermark of his time spent under Karim Rashid, especially in his ready-for-home products. There's a relatively decent article on him in this month's Surface.

Much peace,

Ian Lowe
ballast/regime

[Louisa Chu]

Ducasse is perfect. His staff can do no wrong.

But seriously, even though I'm bidding/begging to stage there this summer, I do think you and Bux nailed it. It's sooo common to put mushrooms in stock that it must be scary for people with allergies like your wife.

And from the restaurant owner/management perspective, it's great that you called and that they seemed appropriately concerned but if you want something specific might I suggest that you ask for it? In that witty diplomatic way that we know you can do.

500 bucks and 2 ruined meals for your wife - including missing Gagnaire - is worth asking for something.

And I really do like the interior.

[Louisa Chu]

In France, as in other countries, most very expensive restaurants take their client's needs very seriously, unless those needs indicate the diner has no respect for the restaurant and shouldn't be there in the first place. It does seem to appear that the French medical profession does not adhere to the same philosophies as it's American counterpart, especially when it comes to diet. As a result, French restaurants may take a more skeptical look at certain requests.

Bux, it's a funny thing about fine French chefs. They do seem to scoff at some requests - yet seem obsessively concerned about matters of digestion. Our chefs constantly warn us about the delicate digestive systems of what will primarily be an older clientele - yet dismiss issues such as shellfish allergies.

[Le Zouave]

Has anyone been there recently? I mean, since Jean-Francois Piege, the exectutive chef, moved to the Ambassadeurs, at the Crillon?

[pim]

No, but I ate at Les Ambassadeurs about a month ago. Chef Piège seems to be doing lovely things there.

I shouldn't think that there would be a huge difference at ADPA though, knowing that Ducasse runs quite a tight ship that would less likely be dependent on any particular person. But what do I know. Perhaps Lou can tell you.

Edited by pim, 21 June 2004 - 07:50 AM.

[Louisa Chu]

I have. If you're worried - don't. I thought that my experience would be diminished because I knew the mechanics behind the tricks - but it wasn't - it was still magic. Classic dishes like the Langoustines and Caviar are still on the menu.

Pim, thanks - good to know my boys are holding down the fort at Les Ambassadeurs until I get there. M. Piege would not have it any other way.

[Bu Pun Su]

I am not sure whether this would be the best place to put my review at ADPA this Spring (yeah, I'm both busy and lazy ). Anyway, here is what I think

Food
We ordered the classic menu of Alain Ducasse - I find that the Brittany lobster and Bresse chicken being the highlight for my dinner (not saying the scallops in coconut curry or the signature dish - langoustine with caviar are inferior). The tasting menu are not that many, only 1 amuse, 2 entrees and 1 main dish plus the regular cheese and dessert. I find the portion is very generous (better be given the price). The cooking is conventional, only 3-5 ingredients per dish, but the execution of each dish is very precise. Everything is cooked to pretty much closed to perfection. No surprising dishes unfortunately ...

Wine
Ducasse's establishment is famour to have top notch wine collections, both qualities and quantities. Here is not exception either, but this would be a bit irrelevant for me since I'm not willing to spend the wine for the price exceeding my food - the mark up price is very high as expected (about 3-5 times if not more). I like my champagne ('98 Henriot Brut Rose) offering smooth texture and firm structure as well as the white burgundy ('99 Corton-Charlemagne Grand Cru) with almond and flower-scented, light in palate with tangy acidity. Unfortunately, the head sommelier is bit snobbish - he's not happy when people question or disagree with his suggestions.

Decoration
Well, maybe this is not very important for most readers here - please see my more details review should one want to know more about the ambiance. In short, elegant and luxurious!

Service
First class, one of the best one could have but more like in a formal style. Don't expect much of relaxing and very close conversation like the one that I had at L'Arpege. You may talk to differents staffs since they are not specifically assigned for certain tables.

Thanks to Phyllis Flick from eG forum for helping me translating the menu. The more details review is here Ducasse Paris. Or if you just want to see the pictures, you could go here ADPA pictures. Enjoy!

Actually, I also ate at almost all of Ducasse's restaurants in Paris. I don't particularly like Aux Lyonnais (perhaps due to the heavy sauce for most dishes) and Benoit. In fact, I prefer Spoon (nice fusion for some dishes) and Le Relais du Parc. However, none of them really worth another visit for me.

[Bu Pun Su]

Somehow I could not find the old thread for ADPA, so I will start one here

I suppose I simply another Ducasse supporter … well, mainly for his fine dining establishments – not really a big fan of Spoon franchise, Beige and Adour are not too bad. My review here actually took place about 1.5 years ago, it may sound cliché but it’s true: better late than never. Here was my dinner in Oct 2008

Food (and wine) - 96/100
This was the 2nd time I dine here, I mentioned that I visited this place before and the restaurant took note of it. It was obvious as they welcomed me. As I was talking to Denis about my meal for today, he kept smiling and saying – don’t worry and I’ll take care of it – indeed he delivered. For pre-amuse bouche/appetizers, he already gave me a small portion of pate a la Lucien Tendret – it was nice and the size was also right (I could not really take too much foie gras). Despite ‘only’ ordering the menu pleasures of the table, ADPA served me the classic langoustine with Iranian caviar for the amuse-bouche – as expected it was tasty – light and balance with firm langoustine and fragrant bouillon. The first 2 dishes: hot & cold spider crab and dover sole were well executed. However, I found that these two dishes though the ingredients are superb and technically stunning, it was not that delicious (it reminded me of Alleno’s dishes which are very good most of the time but not too rich in taste)

The explosion of flavor took place in the main course: veal prepared 2 ways – one with lard of colonnata and the other one were caramelized (this one is particularly tender and good!). The veal’s juice with some (black) truffle sauce enriched this dish, yet balanced by the vegetables on the sides. I could not really decide whether Bardet or Moret prepared better veal. Oh also before this, they gave me a bonus – foie gras ravioli with consommé. The meal was very filling. The cheese was good, but I could not enjoy it as much … if only I was still hungry. Luckily, Denis invited me to the kitchen where I met a gentle giant – Chef Moret – a friendly and humble chef. This bought me some times to energize myself when I ate my chocolate raspberry dessert. The chocolate was almost as divine as Cerutti’s crispy praline; the sour raspberry sorbet was refreshing after ‘heavy’ meal earlier. Wines? It’s good that they served wine by the glasses now though not that cheap (some is about as expensive as L’Arpege’s). My meal in 06 was a very solid 3*, but this time though not as good, the standard was still very high. It was 96 pts or equivalent to 2 ¾* in my notes

Service (and ambiance) - 97/100

I almost always have good experience dining at Ducasse’s establishments; among them ADPA probably triumphs all in terms of hospitality. Denis Courtiade is arguably French’s (and possibly the world’s) best directeur de salle. He not only led his brigade but also hands-on in doing so. The team’s movement in the dining room was very smooth and seemed effortless; the luxurious chandeliers would not prevent them from making guests felt comfortable and at home. I experienced it before and I did it again, so yeah the consistency was there. The atmosphere? I suppose there’re plenty of people talking about this – all the interiors are pretty much nearly over the top. I’m convinced that ADPA was one of the many places which could constantly deliver unique 3-star dining experience. Not so soon, but I know I will return here one day …
Here is the longer review – review Ducasse Paris Fall '08
Here are the pictures – pictures Ducasse Paris Autumn 2008

[superbadkitty]

Mmm, the memories come flying back...thanks for sharing. I loved ADPA, especially after shopping at Chanel round the corner lol. It was the perfect place/meal to top off the ultimate Parisian experience. I was given a little gift of some sea salt after the meal - love to find out where I can buy some. Did you get some too? It is such a nice touch. At Guy Savoy, I got a really nicely-presented welcome gift (even before the meal!). Ahh, the style of the French (swoon).

Edited by superbadkitty, 07 April 2010 - 07:02 PM.

[fairfranco]

Next Tuesday, on April 12, chef Alain Ducasse will be hosting a food market in the interior courtyard of the hotel Plaza Athenée. He's rounded up his favorite producers and is opening the marché to anyone who wants to visit and shop. It's sounds surreal, and like a super excuse to check out this five star luxe hotel.

The market will be open from 10am-noon, and then again from 2:30-6pm.

Hôtel Plaza Athénée, 25 avenue Montaigne, 75008 Paris.

[Bu Pun Su]

Yup, I received some sea salt as well from this visit
When I ate there for the first time, they gave me a big loaf of bread for breakfast
Actually they also allowed me to take away the sweets - caramel, nougat, chocolate etc.