6 replies to this topic

[keychris]

To bring this discussion to a dedicated thread:

I just melt it enough to liquefy it and go ahead and use it.

Bear in mind that if you raise the temperature of invert sugar too high (I think it's 70 or 80C) it loses all the properties that you are using it for in the first place.

Pat, looking great!

Chris

Chris, I not trying to challenge what your saying at all, in fact I feel like I barley understand invert sugar, I have many questions. But if what you say is true, about raising the temp too high, what would be the point of Greweling specifying invert sugar in his marshmallows or fudge, both things that are boiled to 240f or so. I've made chef Eddy's recipe for invert sugar, it seems to be keeping fine in the fridge, but I feel like it shouldn't be refrigerated, from a confectionery point if view, nothing really seems to be in the first place. I feel, like Greweling says in his book, that a reliable invert sugar can be made with invertase, but have get to find a recipe that uses it, only cream if tartar and citric acid. Anyways, thanks for reading my jumbled questions and thoughts!

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Bear in mind that if you raise the temperature of invert sugar too high (I think it's 70 or 80C) it loses all the properties that you are using it for in the first place.

Chris

Chris,
On the heating invert sugar issue, there was a thread about this previously.

From Kerry Beal:
We have had this discussion before about overheating invert sugar - which seems to have originated with something Wybauw said. Is there any evidence that overheating invert sugar really does change it's chemical structure in a way that negatively impacts shelf life and taste?

Answer from lironp:
I asked him about that in the course I took with him-
He said that he found that to be true only for one type of inverted sugar he had worked with that had been inverted with some sort of chemical, (that is not really available to purchase), instead of the traditional way (which is what confectioners usually buy). I don't remember the details of the whole explanation, or the differences between the sugars, but at the end he explained that there is no problem boiling the invert sugar that we usually buy, and the one we used in the course.

I merely parrot what we were told in class on this issue - I don't know enough about it to know the technical details. But our instructor said they had been told by three separate chefs, two MOF's and another from the Chocolate Academy in Chicago, that this was an issue... so I'm going to trust them!

Why some formulas say to just boil it and others don't? I have no idea :D

[Kerry Beal]

We need to do a little controlled trial.

[mostlylana]

In researching how to invert sugar using invertase, most sources say after the sitting period, to further reduce the syrup.  This, of course, entails cooking.  When making ganache I didn't used to heat the invert sugar over 70C, but now, after researching how it is made, I don't adhere to that.

 

 

Here's what Minifie says about making invert sugar in Chocolate, Cocoa, and
Confectionery: Science and Technology:

 

50% concentration of syrup.  Bring to 140F.  Adjust pH to 5.  Add invertase at 0.15% of the syrup.  At these conditions, inversion should be
complete after 8 hours.  Can now further reduce concentration to 75% for storage.

[Kerry Beal]

My experiments so far - took 80 grams of dark chocolate, added 44 grams of heavy cream heated to 40 C, or 44 grams of heavy cream with 15 grams of invert sugar heated to about 40 C, or 44 grams grams of heavy cream with 15 grams of invert sugar and boiled the crap out of it.

 

Heavy cream alone - aW 0.74 or so

cool invert - aW about 0.74 as well

hot invert aW 0.64

 

So flying in the face of everything - looks like boiling the crap out of it is the way to go!  Perhaps the invert sugar that I made just yesterday hasn't fully inverted yet and boiling it caused further inversion.  

 

I will repeat this experiment in a couple of weeks when the invert sugar has aged a little further.

[Jim D.]

To add to this discussion (probably without adding any clarity): I was not happy with the completely solidified condition of invert sugar I had made (using Eddy van Damme's recipe) and yesterday ordered some from L'Epicerie. In the product description are these words:

=========
Trimoline is an uncrystallizable sugar that allow freshness and softness to remain for longer period of time. This product should not be submit[ted] to important temperature variations or kept near sunlight.
=========

Now I don't know whether the warning is referring merely to storage or to use, but may know more when the product arrives.

I did come across another mention of this topic in a thread from 2006 in which Kerry described a demonstration by J.P. Wybauw. She reported that he stated: "Invert sugar should not be heated above 70 C, it will remove its water sequestering effects." So he has said this more than once.

Jim

[Chocolot]

My experiments so far - took 80 grams of dark chocolate, added 44 grams of heavy cream heated to 40 C, or 44 grams of heavy cream with 15 grams of invert sugar heated to about 40 C, or 44 grams grams of heavy cream with 15 grams of invert sugar and boiled the crap out of it.

 

Heavy cream alone - aW 0.74 or so

cool invert - aW about 0.74 as well

hot invert aW 0.64

 

So flying in the face of everything - looks like boiling the crap out of it is the way to go!  Perhaps the invert sugar that I made just yesterday hasn't fully inverted yet and boiling it caused further inversion.  

 

I will repeat this experiment in a couple of weeks when the invert sugar has aged a little further.

 

Kerry, did you replace any evaporated liquid? That might account for the reduced aW.

[Kerry Beal]

My experiments so far - took 80 grams of dark chocolate, added 44 grams of heavy cream heated to 40 C, or 44 grams of heavy cream with 15 grams of invert sugar heated to about 40 C, or 44 grams grams of heavy cream with 15 grams of invert sugar and boiled the crap out of it.

 

Heavy cream alone - aW 0.74 or so

cool invert - aW about 0.74 as well

hot invert aW 0.64

 

So flying in the face of everything - looks like boiling the crap out of it is the way to go!  Perhaps the invert sugar that I made just yesterday hasn't fully inverted yet and boiling it caused further inversion.  

 

I will repeat this experiment in a couple of weeks when the invert sugar has aged a little further.

 

Kerry, did you replace any evaporated liquid? That might account for the reduced aW.

Nope - didn't.  Will do on the next go round.

 

K