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Common Food Mispronunciations and Misnomers

Mexican

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#271 Karri

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 06:32 AM


I am working in Spain at the moment, and we serve quite a bit of Carpaccio. Now the Spaniards here don't pronounce it in the italian way, but as "carpassio". As you would in Spanish. Regional variants...

Panaderia Canadiense, do people really speak Castellano in South America?


Sort of. The same way that Americans sort of speak English and Quebecois sort of speak French. (Which is why that's bracketed in my earlier post.) What South Americans speak is sort of a somewhat corrupted form of Castellano from about 100 years before the distinción (soft C pronounced as TH) was introduced to the language. Hence, while somebody from Castille would say "thervesa" we say "servesa" for cerveza (the first example of the distinción that occurs to me at this late hour), and the words casa and caza are homophones. This is particularly evident in the Ecuadorian province of Loja, where the language has been preserved almost exactly as the conquistadores are thought to have spoken it - the Real Academia has actually done studies on this.

In addition to the ceceo, most forms of Latin American Castellano also incorporate words from the precolumbian languages of their areas; hence, Ecuadorian Castellano is distinct from, say, Colombian in that Ecuadorian includes a great number of Quichua and Shuara words into the general lexicon, while Colombian tends more towards Muisca and Tairona words, and the Peruvian and Bolivian Castellano that also include Quichua will include different words from those of Ecuador, simply because the Quichua spoken in Peru and Bolivia is quite different from that spoken in Ecuador. And so on.

If that's confusing, consider that only an Ecuadorian will use the word "Chuchaqui" to describe being hung over - the rest of Latin America uses "resacado." Also consider that in Ecuador and Colombia, an avocado is an Aguacate, while in Peru and Bolivia it's a Palta. Also consider the regional differences in the pronunciation of the letter LL - in some countries, most notably in Chile and Argentina, it's arrastrado (pronounced sort of like sh or zh), while in others, like Ecuador and parts of northern Peru, it's elido (pronounced l'y) and still others it's pronounced more like z (Colombia and Venezuela are like this). So, it's sort of Castellano. It's got the same grammar and structure, and shares a basic vocabulary. But really it has as much in common as Quebecois does to Parisian.

Oh, and it's also worth noting that Latin Americans make merciless fun of Spaniards for the perception of lisping that goes with the distinción. Nobody down here would be caught dead ordering a thervesa - it's considered to be a very effeminate way to speak and if you're a Latino man that's the last thing you want anybody to think of you....

ETA - and when it comes to Carpaccio, most Latin Americans will look at it and pronounce it "Carpaxio" with the x sound being closest to ks. Those who have a bit more culinary education will pronounce it "Carpachio" (and it's often spelt this way on menus in places that offer it.) The changed spelling is actually quite common with words that would have an awkward pronunciaiton otherwise - focaccia becomes focachia, etc.


Thank you very much, this has been very educational!
I work on the Canary Islands, and here they identify themselves as speaking 'Isleno', which does not follow the Castellano speech patterns. cerveza is a servesa, and the doouble l is a kind of "y". Yes, my dentist is Argentinian, and I find myself struggling when her sentences contain words beginning with ys and double ls...
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#272 Panaderia Canadiense

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 06:49 AM

Canario or Isleño has a lot in common with Latin American Castellano as it's spoken in Ecuador, actually. It has to do with a large number of Canarios emigrating here when the whole colony was still just the Real Audiencia de Perú. Incidentally, they're also the ones who brought bananas to Latin America....
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#273 Panaderia Canadiense

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 08:14 AM

... and speaking of bananas, I came across a fairly egregious problem today. Not technically a mispronunciation or misnomer so much as terrible grammar, but all the same:

Banana usually eats fresh....


No, no, no. No it doesn't. Bananas don't eat anything - they're not animals. They're fruit. They're incapable of what's being suggested. I'm sure what's intended in that sentence is "Bananas are usually eaten fresh" and it's not like adding one tiny little article and ensuring subject-verb agreement would have caused the layout an insufferable runover....

Can anybody tell me when the standards for English grammar in established publications dropped this far? Please?

(edited for grammar... :blush: )

Edited by Panaderia Canadiense, 27 April 2012 - 08:16 AM.

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#274 ElsieD

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 01:08 PM

How is dulce de leche pronounced?

#275 Hassouni

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 02:34 PM

http://translate.goo...dulce de leche click on the speaker icon in the bottom right

#276 Panaderia Canadiense

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 02:34 PM

DOOL-say day LAY-chay, roughly.
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#277 Hassouni

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 03:57 PM

unless from Spain, in which case "dulthe" :biggrin:

#278 Marie-Ora

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 12:34 PM

In celebration of Cinco de Mayo, here are some Mexican dishes and beers I hear people getting wrong. Some may be jaw-droppingly obvious to most, but ya never know! I was Spanish major, and pronunciation is my thing, so this is as phonetcially correct as you can get it for an English speaker, If you want to hear audio, you are welcome to go to the site, but I'll make it as complete as I can here:

chilaquiles tchee/lah/KEE/lehs
burritos boo/RREE/tohs
frijoles refritos FREE/xoh/lehs reh/FREE/tohs
tortillas tohr/TEE/yahs
huevos rancheros WEH/vohs rahn/TCHEH/rohs
tamales tah/MAH/lehs
huitlacoche weet/lah/KOH/tcheh
taquitos tah/KEE/tohs
quesadillas keh/sah/THEE/yahs
fajitas fah/XEE/tahs
guacamole gwah/kah/MOH/leh
pico de gallo PEE/koh deh GAH/yoh
cerveza sehr/VEH/sah (in Spain thehr/BEH/thah)
Dos Equis dohs/EH/kees
Tecate teh/KAH/teh

#279 rotuts

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 01:00 PM

Very Good Job!

as i was growing up. i spent two years in Madrid as an interno in a (E)Spanish school as my father taught at the U. of Madrid.

i spoke no (E)Spanish when i got there, but my Christmas I spoke age related (E)Spanish. Castellano.

No big deal, I had no choice. I did not speak Andalucian. No big deal.

but you have done a fine job for those who did not have my Experience.

then there is Ceceo and Seseo.

Edited by rotuts, 04 May 2012 - 01:09 PM.


#280 Darienne

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 01:24 PM

Welcome to eGullet Marie-Ora and thank you for your pronunciation post.

And do you cook Mexican as well as pronounce it? :smile:
Darienne


learn, learn, learn...

Cheers & Chocolates

#281 Marie-Ora

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 01:25 PM

Thanks! First year Spanish - I have a Mexican prof, second year Cuban and Colombian, third year spent time in Salamanca. Everyone wanted us to speak 'their way'. Great way to learn. Madrid is beautiful!! Ai Ceceo, Seseo, then you get to Paris, and it's Argot and Verlan. Unless they translate, you can't understand half at least of what they are saying.....

#282 Marie-Ora

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 01:27 PM

@ Darienne - alas no - wish I did!

#283 rotuts

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 01:42 PM

Ah, Cubano! in (E)Spain while I was there there were two cubano students. they spoke a unique (E)Spanish: it was very very fast so fast that you could not decided if it was ceceo or seseo, and they were in such a hurry with their thoughts that the last 50% of each word they left off!

#284 Marie-Ora

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 01:53 PM

That's the problem with learning languages! Nobody ever speaks them the ways they teach them :smile:

#285 rotuts

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 02:05 PM

you could probably listen to Radio Madrid on the web. they might have a food segment?

its here:

http://tunein.com/ra...dio-972-s79707/

I guess they think its Sabado and now its latin music.

Ill try to find a food show.

wish me luck! tapas, Serrano, Manchego etc

Edited by rotuts, 04 May 2012 - 02:08 PM.


#286 Marie-Ora

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 02:09 PM

I never thought of that - very good idea. Going to have a nose around and see what comes up...

#287 liuzhou

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 12:51 AM

How do I pronounce "xoh"?

This is the trouble with using a non-standard pronunciation system. There is no reference point.

#288 Marie-Ora

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 02:13 AM

Hi Liuzhou - ít's pronounced like the 'ch' in 'loch'. If you go to the site, you will find audio on these words along with detailed explanations. I just wanted a do quick reference for eG members. 'X'IS standard - the problem is, it represents a sound that only exists in one word in English, and if I used 'ch' for the 'ch' in 'loch', everyone would completely misunderstand. There is a tendency for English speakers who just cannot get the sound right to substitute an 'h'. There is no 'h'sound in Spanish at all, but there is nothing wrong with using it if it's the closest you can get to pronouncing words correctly. There are sounds Spanish speakers battle with in English too. Here are some words with an 'h' where the 'x' would normally be:

fajitas fah/HEE/tahs
mojito moh/HEE/toh

Edited by Marie-Ora, 05 May 2012 - 02:19 AM.


#289 liuzhou

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 02:48 AM

Thank you. I am well aware of the 'ch' sound in loch being rendered as /x/ in IPA. What worries me is the mixture of phonetic systems you use.

But that is something perhaps better discussed on your website rather than here.

Edited by liuzhou, 05 May 2012 - 03:09 AM.


#290 dcarch

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 06:29 PM

There are many sites where they will pronounce many foreign words and sentences for you electronically. They seem to be pretty good.

Google Translate for instance.

dcarch

#291 Marie-Ora

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 11:21 AM

I must say I've never heard of 'bruscare' for 'to roast' in Italian, and that word isn't in my Italian dictionaries. I raise this because when I was researching this some time ago, I could find no direct translation for 'to roast' in Italian. You either say fare, or cucinare arrosto (make or cook a roast). If anyone knows more I'd be very interested.
Nocca is also interesting - I hadn't associated gnocchi with nocca. What I can say for sure is that a gnoccho (which is the singular of gnocchi) is a block-head or dimwit. My Italian family and friends have this association. Etymology of food words is a particular interest of mine, so I'm always looking to find out more.
I would add tournedos and meunière to this list, but there are tons more.

#292 Marie-Ora

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 03:24 AM

This goes back to the original article. I've had a chat with some Italian friends, and they agree with me 'nocca' meaning 'knuckle' is not the origin word, or even related to 'gnocchi' - you can tell by gender: 'nocca' is a feminine noun - the plural is 'nocche'. 'Gnocchi' is a masculine plural - the singular is 'gnocco'. In some parts of Italy, gnocchi are called 'trofie' (TROHF/yeh).
And back to bruscare/ bruschetta - I can find no evidence of 'bruscare' anywhere. There is a verb 'brusciare' which means 'to burn' which is a more likely candidate, but by no means certain. If anyone has an other information, please let me know. I am a little (!) obsessive, but it drives me nuts when I see errors perpetuated by 'cut and paste' - which you see a lot of if you do research on the net.

#293 Mjx

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 04:18 AM

. . . . I am a little (!) obsessive, but it drives me nuts when I see errors perpetuated by 'cut and paste' - which you see a lot of if you do research on the net.


Then you'll want to know that the origin of 'bruschetta' is, in fact 'bruscare'/'bruscato' which is a dialectical form of 'abbrustolire'/'abbrustolito', meaning 'to brown (without burning)', and that 'to burn' is 'bruciare' (no 's'). :wink:

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#294 Marie-Ora

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 06:30 AM

Then you'll want to know that the origin of 'bruschetta' is, in fact 'bruscare'/'bruscato' which is a dialectical form of 'abbrustolire'/'abbrustolito', meaning 'to brown (without burning)', and that 'to burn' is 'bruciare' (no 's'). :wink:

Thank-you SO much!! This has been driving me nuts. The dialects get me every time. And bruciare with the 's' is an error in my smaller Collins dictionary - just tore through the Oxford-Paravia where it's fine (not that I haven't found errors in this one). Do you by any chance know what dialect it is? :rolleyes:





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