Jump to content


Welcome to the eG Forums!

These forums are a service of the Society for Culinary Arts & Letters, a 501c3 nonprofit organization dedicated to advancement of the culinary arts. Anyone can read the forums, however if you would like to participate in active discussions please join the Society.

Photo

Tempering Cocoa Butter?

Confections Chocolate

  • Please log in to reply
14 replies to this topic

#1 gfron1

gfron1
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 4,205 posts
  • Location:Silver City, NM

Posted 09 May 2007 - 01:13 PM

One of the dishes at Alinea this weekend was a shot that included green apple juice or cider inside of a cocoa butter orb dusted with horseradish set in celery juice. The orb was crisp and thin. I've never worked with pure cocoa butter...can you temper it by itself? I didn't taste the sweetness of white chocolate, nor was it billed as white chocolate.

Chef, Curious Kumquat, Silver City, NM


#2 Kerry Beal

Kerry Beal
  • participating member
  • 9,285 posts
  • Location:Ontario, Canada

Posted 09 May 2007 - 02:34 PM

Yup, you can temper it on marble or in a bowl. Use the same temperatures for dark chocolate.

#3 gfron1

gfron1
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 4,205 posts
  • Location:Silver City, NM

Posted 09 May 2007 - 02:48 PM

That's interesting - you temper as if dark not white. Now that I think through it, that would make more sense - they are more similar in content. Thanks Kerry.

Rob

Chef, Curious Kumquat, Silver City, NM


#4 Kerry Beal

Kerry Beal
  • participating member
  • 9,285 posts
  • Location:Ontario, Canada

Posted 09 May 2007 - 03:06 PM

That's interesting - you temper as if dark not white.  Now that I think through it, that would make more sense - they are more similar in content.  Thanks Kerry.

Rob

View Post

Milk and white chocolate have other competing fats (milk fat) which lowers the tempering and working temperatures. Gianduja which adds nut fat into the mix requires even lower temperatures. Dark chocolate's only fat is cocoa butter - as you noted - more similar in content.

#5 duckduck

duckduck
  • participating member
  • 946 posts
  • Location:portland, oregon

Posted 10 May 2007 - 06:04 PM

I've been thinking of asking that very question. Good information to know.
Pamela Wilkinson
www.portlandfood.org
Life is a rush into the unknown. You can duck down and hope nothing hits you, or you can stand tall, show it your teeth and say "Dish it up, Baby, and don't skimp on the jalapeños."

#6 alanamoana

alanamoana
  • participating member
  • 2,738 posts
  • Location:California

Posted 10 May 2007 - 07:18 PM

gfron1, just curious, how thin was the shell? i can't imagine one thin enough that i would want to eat it if it was made only of cocoa butter. unless of course the other flavors were enough to overpower the cocoa butter.

sounds interesting though. neat that you got a chance to go to alinea and dine.

#7 gfron1

gfron1
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 4,205 posts
  • Location:Silver City, NM

Posted 06 September 2007 - 11:20 AM

Oh my goodness...I missed your question, so here is the answer 4 months late! The shell was so thin that I don't think you could have picked it up. It floated in liquid and when it hit your mouth, it shattered. And the flavors were all very strong, so the cocoa butter was just a vessel that gave mouthfeel, not taste.

Chef, Curious Kumquat, Silver City, NM


#8 alanamoana

alanamoana
  • participating member
  • 2,738 posts
  • Location:California

Posted 06 September 2007 - 03:30 PM

better late than never :wink:

thanks for responding!

that's why we pay you the big bucks (oh wait, you're a volunteer! thanks!)

#9 Jim D.

Jim D.
  • society donor
  • 266 posts
  • Location:Staunton, Virginia

Posted 10 November 2013 - 10:07 AM

I am posting under this old topic because I have a related question:  I am trying to be "good" and really temper colored cocoa butter before using it in molds (having had some problems with unmolding and attempting to eliminate any issues I can).  As seed, I have used both unmelted chunks of the cocoa butter from a previous tempering job and also used Cacao Barry's Mycryo (which is pure cocoa butter).  As Kerry suggested earlier, I am using temperatures for dark chocolate.  The problem is that the usual test for deciding if the cocoa butter/chocolate is tempered is not working--that is, a dab on a piece of parchment or waxed paper does not set up within a reasonable amount of time.  Waiting a long time means the cocoa butter gets too cool and needs a bit of warming.  Sometimes I just go ahead and use the cocoa butter.  I previously used the method of mostly melting the cocoa butter, then removing it from the heat and stirring in the unmelted pieces in the same container as a kind of quick-tempering process.  Usually I didn't bother to test.  Any suggestions as to what I might be doing wrong that the test does not work?



#10 keychris

keychris
  • participating member
  • 181 posts
  • Location:Melbourne, Australia

Posted 10 November 2013 - 03:06 PM

when working with colours, I just melt them to 45C, then stir until they're at 32C, then apply. Never bother with a test for them. As soon as the colour is set up enough (usually 5-10 minutes max), I put on the chocolate layer, as you want to the chocolate and the colour to contract away from the mould at the same time.

 

HTH



#11 Jim D.

Jim D.
  • society donor
  • 266 posts
  • Location:Staunton, Virginia

Posted 10 November 2013 - 09:09 PM

when working with colours, I just melt them to 45C, then stir until they're at 32C, then apply. Never bother with a test for them. As soon as the colour is set up enough (usually 5-10 minutes max), I put on the chocolate layer, as you want to the chocolate and the colour to contract away from the mould at the same time.

 

HTH

Thanks for your reply.

 

Have you ever had chocolates stick when there is cocoa butter in the mold?

 

Are you saying you don't make a point of tempering the cocoa butter or that the procedure you follow does temper it?  I know some experts say not to bother with tempering it; more (according to what I have seen on this and other forums) say it should be tempered.  I'm just trying everything I can to avoid having more ruined pieces.  With the mold I was working on today, the stuff in the molds does not look promising.  So I am going to fill one cavity with chocolate and try to unmold it.  If it doesn't work, I'll know to wash out the mold and start again rather than waste more chocolate and ganache and lose time.



#12 choux

choux
  • participating member
  • 265 posts
  • Location:Whistler,BC

Posted 10 November 2013 - 09:44 PM

Don't wash the mold with chocolate still in it. It takes forever and lots of swearing. Stick it in freezer and they will pop out, probably won't be usable due to condensation.



#13 Jim D.

Jim D.
  • society donor
  • 266 posts
  • Location:Staunton, Virginia

Posted 11 November 2013 - 06:21 AM

Don't wash the mold with chocolate still in it. It takes forever and lots of swearing. Stick it in freezer and they will pop out, probably won't be usable due to condensation.

Thanks for that tip.  Your assessment of the amount of swearing the washing process causes is quite accurate.  I have found that with a few minutes in the freezer some stubborn chocolates will unmold, with no damage to the pieces that I can see.



#14 keychris

keychris
  • participating member
  • 181 posts
  • Location:Melbourne, Australia

Posted 11 November 2013 - 04:59 PM

Are you saying you don't make a point of tempering the cocoa butter or that the procedure you follow does temper it?  I know some experts say not to bother with tempering it; more (according to what I have seen on this and other forums) say it should be tempered.

 

It's all about crystals - the process I follow there will (should!) create the crystals required for the cocoa butter to be 'tempered'. Occasionally I'll have one piece out of a whole mold that the cocoa butter sticks a little, but not for a long time have I had problems with a whole mold. We were taught that you should always stir the cocoa butter to temperature, but every single teacher I've had has picked a different temperature to take it to. It also depends if it's being sprayed or applied with a finger - if it's spray, you can have it slightly warmer. I usually just have it at 32C when I start.



#15 Jim D.

Jim D.
  • society donor
  • 266 posts
  • Location:Staunton, Virginia

Posted 11 November 2013 - 05:41 PM

Yes, I understand about the crystals that must be there.  Today I used your technique (which is what I had been using before I decided to be more strict about tempering and testing the temper), and I don't know for sure how it will turn out, but the decorations are looking better.  The red that did not look good yesterday turned out to be as bad as I thought.  Even freezing would not make the stuff come out.  Fortunately I did as I said and tried just one cavity, so I didn't lose a whole mold.  Much hot water and "elbow grease" and soap later, the mold looks clean.  So tomorrow I try again.  As I cleaned out the red cocoa butter, I said to myself, "I'm thinking stamp collecting would have made a less stressful hobby in retirement."


  • minas6907 likes this





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Confections, Chocolate