260 replies to this topic

[Chris Amirault]

It's been five or six weeks since I made my batch, and in the last few days I've noticed a drop in the quality related to mouthfeel and aroma. It's still very good, but it separates while in the fridge and doesn't seem to maintain the complexity of flavor that it had when I first made it. So I'm seconding Sam's recommendation to make smallish batches.

However, and more important, make batches.

[eje]

[...]
Here's another recipe that's worked well. It's certainly worth tweaking to your own tastes. The rose water, in particular, is worth doling out with a light touch. I've never met François-Xavier, but I do like his site. It's worth checking out the link not only for directions, but for the handsome photography as well...


François-Xavier's Orgeat
[...]

mbrowley, thanks for reminding me of the orgeat recipe on FX Cuisine! I'd seen this a while ago, but sort of forgot about it.

The best part about it is by avoiding the blender and food processor, you run no risk of over processing your almonds.

I suspect, as long as your bottles are sanitized properly, with that much sugar, the risk of it going off are somewhere in the slim to nil category, even without adding alcohol (whose preservative qualities are vastly overrated, I might add.)

[Chris Amirault]

What exactly happens if you overprocess the almonds? I fear I might have done that this time around. The flavor and mouthfeel are off....

[eje]

What exactly happens if you overprocess the almonds? I fear I might have done that this time around. The flavor and mouthfeel are off....

You end up with a lot of small pieces of vegetable matter that make it through your cheesecloth or strainer.

"Chalky" was the word someone used to describe my first batch of orgeat.

Also, instead of a consistent cloudy louche from just the almond oils, your cocktails will have a blotchy appearance like this Inca Cocktail:

Edited by eje, 13 July 2008 - 01:56 PM.

[Chris Amirault]

That's very useful. I think I managed to nail it the first time around, flying blind, and this time I was careless.

[hathor]

My cocktail mentor, Weinoo, sent me a short e-mail: Make Orgeat Syrup.
Of course I obeyed, and I now have a bottle of orgeat syrup.
Uhmmm....now, what do I do with it?

Please don't say MaiTai because the chances of me finding curacao are slim to ridiculous. I live in the hinterlands, a cocktail wasteland, a mecca for cheap nasty gin and no rye.... (however, grzie dio and saints preserve us, the gelato is good).

We just had a little aperitivo of pastis, orgeat and a bit of water. That was nice, refreshing; but I've got a whole bottle of the stuff now!

Edited by hathor, 15 July 2008 - 09:31 AM.

[Alcuin]

My cocktail mentor, Weinoo, sent me a short e-mail: Make Orgeat Syrup.
Of course I obeyed, and I now have a bottle of orgeat syrup.
Uhmmm....now, what do I do with it?

Please don't say MaiTai because the chances of me finding curacao are slim to ridiculous. I live in the hinterlands, a cocktail wasteland, a mecca for cheap nasty gin and no rye.... (however, grzie dio and saints preserve us, the gelato is good).

We just had a little aperitivo of pastis, orgeat and a bit of water. That was nice, refreshing; but I've got a whole bottle of the stuff now!

If you can get brandy, I'd go for a Japanese cocktail (2 oz Cognac, 1/2 orgeat, 2 dashes Angostura), created by Jerry Thomas.

There is also a Japanese Cocktail #1 that involves some lime juice. Cocktaildb also lists a Japanese Cocktail #2 that involves gin and lemon juice but I haven't tried that one. It might be worth a shot if you've got the goods laying around.

[campus five]

Japanese Cocktail
2 oz Cognac / 1/2 oz Orgeat / dash Angostura

[eje]

If you can't do a Mai Tai, how about a Fog Cutter?

Fog Cutter Recipe Comparison (Kaiser Penguin)

Trader Vic

        * 2oz light Puerto Rican rum
        * 1/2oz gin
        * 1oz brandy
        * 1oz orange juice
        * 2oz lemon juice
        * 1/2oz orgeat syrup
        * 1/2oz sherry

Shake with cube ice, strain into a tall glass filled with crushed ice.

    Source: Grog Log and Trader Vic’s Bartender’s Guide: Revised, Jeff Berry and Trader Vic

Though, to be honest the challenge in the Mai Tai really isn't the Orange Curacao so much as the orgeat and the proper rums. You can use Cointreau in a Mai Tai to no real deficit to the drink. To the best of my knowledge, Trader Vic was using DeKuyper Orange Curacao, fer cripes sake, when he made it up.

I made this Mai Tai variation last night, most excellent:

1 1/2 oz Appleton V/X
3/4 oz St. James Ambre
Juice 1 Lime
1 barspoon Luxardo Triplum
3 barspoons Home Made Orgeat

Edited by eje, 15 July 2008 - 11:30 AM.

[evo-lution]

I've been playing with the recipe for the Japanese Cocktail this last week or so, and have substituted the lemon peel for fresh lemon juice to great effect.

It's an excellent drink, especially with Hennessy Fine de Cognac, as the orgeat works really well with the almond notes found in this particular cognac.

Adapted Japanese Cocktail

50ml Hennessy Fine de Cognac
25ml Fresh lemon juice
12.5ml Orgeat syrup
Dash Angostura bitters

Procedure - Shake & fine strain
Glass - Chilled cocktail
Garnish - Orange zest (compliments the orgeat/cognac)

I also found that it works well with Angostura orange bitters in place of the traditonal bitters.

Ratio - 2 - 1 - 0.5 (for those that use ounces)

Edited by evo-lution, 15 July 2008 - 10:16 AM.

[thirtyoneknots]

I would say that Grand Marnier is a better sub for Curacao in a Mai Tai, but Cointreau will certainly do no harm.

[eje]

I would say that Grand Marnier is a better sub for Curacao in a Mai Tai, but Cointreau will certainly do no harm.

If it's true that Trader Vic was using the neutral spirits based Orange Curacao from DeKuyper when he created the Mai Tai, I'm not so sure that the brandy blended Grand Marnier (or even the Brizard Orange Curacao) is the most "authentic" choice.

Have you done comparative taste tests? I've mixed with Grand Marnier so infrequently, I'm not even really sure what it brings to a cocktail.

[thirtyoneknots]

I would say that Grand Marnier is a better sub for Curacao in a Mai Tai, but Cointreau will certainly do no harm.

If it's true that Trader Vic was using the neutral spirits based Orange Curacao from DeKuyper when he created the Mai Tai, I'm not so sure that the brandy blended Grand Marnier (or even the Brizard Orange Curacao) is the most "authentic" choice.

Have you done comparative taste tests? I've mixed with Grand Marnier so infrequently, I'm not even really sure what it brings to a cocktail.

I personally think that Grand Marnier is too heavy for many of the places people try to use it (Margaritas, etc) though of course it's largely a matter of taste. I've made Mai Tais with Brizzard, modern DeKuyper, Cointreau, and Grand Marnier and my perference is for the Brizzard or Grand Marnier, depending on my mood that day (or what is available). The GM brings a nice richness to the drink while the MB is slightly cleaner, but retaining character, whereas I think Cointreau tastes a little too clean for this particular application. Modern DeKuyper, on the other hand, doesn't even really taste like orange when compared to the other products mentioned.

All that said, I didn't claim the substitution was the most authentic, I said it was 'better' --a subjective claim to be sure but I think if you try it you'll agree. Authenticity for it's own sake is a fun and usually delicious way to go about making drinks, but if that means I've got to use an inferior product then I'll be inauthentic.

Of course I've never tried 1940's era imported DeKuyper Curacao (how was that stuff so common with the Nazis in control of the Dutch distilleries?). I'd be curious if anyone ever has....Dr. Cocktail?

[eje]

I personally think that Grand Marnier is too heavy for many of the places people try to use it (Margaritas, etc) though of course it's largely a matter of taste. I've made Mai Tais with Brizzard, modern DeKuyper, Cointreau, and Grand Marnier and my perference is for the Brizzard or Grand Marnier, depending on my mood that day (or what is available). The GM brings a nice richness to the drink while the MB is slightly cleaner, but retaining character, whereas I think Cointreau tastes a little too clean for this particular application. Modern DeKuyper, on the other hand, doesn't even really taste like orange when compared to the other products mentioned.

All that said, I didn't claim the substitution was the most authentic, I said it was 'better' --a subjective claim to be sure but I think if you try it you'll agree. Authenticity for it's own sake is a fun and usually delicious way to go about making drinks, but if that means I've got to use an inferior product then I'll be inauthentic.

Of course I've never tried 1940's era imported DeKuyper Curacao (how was that stuff so common with the Nazis in control of the Dutch distilleries?). I'd be curious if anyone ever has....Dr. Cocktail?

All that makes sense. I've never made a study of the DeKuyper Orange Curacao. Had it in drinks at bars. Don't remember it making an impression. They do use it at Forbidden Island. I can say I don't think much of the Bols Orange (or Blue) Curacao sold in this country.

I've not had a chance to try it, but I have heard good things about the European version of Bols Dry Orange Curacao in a Mai Tai. I'm hoping to run into Philip Duff at Tales of the Cocktail this year. If I do, I'll be sure and hit him up for a sample.

Just wish someone could convince Bols to sell that version of the Dry Orange Curacao in this country.

I do continue to like the Luxardo Orange Triplum as a Curacao substitute. It's got the strongest pure orange flavor of the bunch and is a bit sweeter than Cointreau.

[Scott S]

I recently compared two Mai Tais, one with Marie brizard Orange Curacao and another with Senior Curacao of Curacao. The MB was better, but not by a whole lot, but one probably wouldn't notice the difference unless sipped side-by-side.

My goal this weekend is to compare a number of "new to me" orange liqueurs, and compare a number of them in Mai Tais.

[thirtyoneknots]

My goal this weekend is to compare a number of "new to me" orange liqueurs, and compare a number of them in Mai Tais.

A noble goal if ever a goal could be called that.

[hathor]

Great info, thanks. (My e-mail notification is completely random, so I'm sorry not to respond sooner. I honestly thought that since no one answered, none of you really knew what to do with the stuff )

We were at a cocktail bar the other day, and I noticed that they subbed Cointreau for the Curacao, so that might be an option.

We'll give the Japanese cocktail a try, it sounds intriguing.

Uh, I'm a sissy-girl, I think the Fog Cutter would KILL me. That is a whole load of booze: rum, gin, brandy, and sherry.


Oh, look. It's cocktail time in Umbria, I just placed my order with my personal bartender, I'd like an adapted Japanese cocktail. I'll let you know how it goes.
But, Cocktail Historians: why is it called a Japanese cocktail?

[Chris Amirault]

I've been fiddling around with the Mikado, which has no citrus:

2 oz brandy
1/2 oz orgeat
1/4 oz curacao
2 dashes bitters

This is one (of many, many) drinks where the Fee's whiskey barrel aged bitters really shines; Angostura is a fine choice too.

[hathor]

One "Adapted Japanese Cocktail"! I like it...we might cut back on the lemon. We've got some very strong lemons in the house. Jeff is not so sure, but I think it's rather refreshing and the orgeat gives it a nice mouth feel.
thanks!

[thirtyoneknots]

But, Cocktail Historians: why is it called a Japanese cocktail?

The story/legend/theory goes that it was created in honor of the visit to New York by the first Japanese dimplomatic mission to the United States., which occured just a few years before the recipe was first published in Jerry Thomas' 1862 Bon Vivant's Companion. Full story here.

[eje]

The Gaby de Lys (Charles Baker?) is another nice feature for quality Orgeat, not dissimilar to the Japanese.

I'll have to check for exact amounts later tonight, but the ingredients are: Gin, Orgeat, Absinthe, and Bitters.

[hathor]

But, Cocktail Historians: why is it called a Japanese cocktail?

The story/legend/theory goes that it was created in honor of the visit to New York by the first Japanese dimplomatic mission to the United States., which occured just a few years before the recipe was first published in Jerry Thomas' 1862 Bon Vivant's Companion. Full story here.

Great bit of history. Kind of makes you wish you knew Tommy, he sounds like someone you would want to have a cocktail with.

[thirtyoneknots]

But, Cocktail Historians: why is it called a Japanese cocktail?

The story/legend/theory goes that it was created in honor of the visit to New York by the first Japanese dimplomatic mission to the United States., which occured just a few years before the recipe was first published in Jerry Thomas' 1862 Bon Vivant's Companion. Full story here.

Great bit of history. Kind of makes you wish you knew Tommy, he sounds like someone you would want to have a cocktail with.

Ain't that the truth

[hannnah]

But, Cocktail Historians: why is it called a Japanese cocktail?

The story/legend/theory goes that it was created in honor of the visit to New York by the first Japanese diplomatic mission to the United States., which occured just a few years before the recipe was first published in Jerry Thomas' 1862 Bon Vivant's Companion. Full story here.

Great bit of history. Kind of makes you wish you knew Tommy, he sounds like someone you would want to have a cocktail with.

Ain't that the truth

Huh. I wonder if he's also the one who did the sketches of all the cities they visited? Our copy of the sketchbook isn't signed, but in addition to drawing the city views, the artist also draws sketches of the hotel rooms themselves - so on the facing page to this Capitol view, there's a drawing of the hotel room in the Willard the artist was staying in. Now, if he'd drawn a picture of the bar, that might be more of a clue. The date of the delegation was 1860, so that's consistent with the Thomas story.

[mkayahara]

The Gaby de Lys (Charles Baker?) is another nice feature for quality Orgeat, not dissimilar to the Japanese.

I'll have to check for exact amounts later tonight, but the ingredients are: Gin, Orgeat, Absinthe, and Bitters.

FWIW, Embury lists the proportions at 1 part orgeat, 4 parts gin, 3-4 dashes absinthe, but omits the bitters. I wonder what peach bitters would be like in this?

I know vodka isn't the most popular base spirit around these parts, but another drink that would be a good showcase for quality orgeat is the Pearlescent from Wondrich's Killer Cocktails: vodka, orgeat, maraschino, lemon peel. (Proportions in this thread.) It's a nice drink even with the commercial Marie Brizard orgeat I have, and I bet it'd be stunning with the homemade stuff.

Edited by mkayahara, 22 July 2008 - 10:28 AM.

[scratchline]

How about a Wahine's Delight?

1/2 oz orgeat syrup
1 oz fresh lemon juice
1 oz gold rum

We like them served on the rocks. Sweet & tropical-summery, and people who don't drink cocktails always lap them up.

[eje]

The Gaby de Lys (Charles Baker?) is another nice feature for quality Orgeat, not dissimilar to the Japanese.

I'll have to check for exact amounts later tonight, but the ingredients are: Gin, Orgeat, Absinthe, and Bitters.

FWIW, Embury lists the proportions at 1 part orgeat, 4 parts gin, 3-4 dashes absinthe, but omits the bitters. I wonder what peach bitters would be like in this?
[...]

Oops! Baker doesn't use bitters either: Gaby Des Lys Cocktail; 1 jigger dry gin; 1/2 pony orgeat; 1 scant teaspoon of Absinthe. Frappe with ice and pour into a cocktail glass.

I believe they do add some bitters of some sort when they make it at Beretta here in San Francisco.

[haresfur]

Check out the syrup flavor shown on this bottle label!

Torani Orgeat

[Chris Amirault]

Tried a drink using the Art of the Bar lavender honey syrup, orgeat and WT 101 bourbon (1/2:1/2:2). Don't try it: waaaaay too sweet. But it was prompted by a query from a friend who liked that syrup and orgeat and wondered about a combo. Makes me wonder about using lavender in the orgeat. Thoughts?

[mkayahara]

Does anyone know of any really great drinks that feature tequila and orgeat?