143 replies to this topic

[drcocktail]

...Or perhaps not, now having read the whole thread. Guess who Nurse Cocktail & I had over for "dinner" last night? Why, Chuck Taggart & Wesley Moore! And I asked Chuck if he was familiar with eGullet! I'm an eGullet piker. Chuck's an old hand! And here he was in this very thread!

Anyway, what I meant with my overly succinct rule was that Dubonnet only originally made the red. Kina Lillet ALWAYS meant the blanc (or blonde) - it's all they made until they tried to expand into Dubonnet's market. I just feel each was best at their original thing. Thus my law.

We all had no Lillet (or Dubonnet) at all this particular evening of socialization, but we surely have in the past, and especially with the famous Lillet Tomlin we are bound to in the future.

To do my own thread hijacking, our cocktail menu tonight WAS as follows: We began with a cocktail of my creation, La Tavola Rotonda. 2 oz Bourbon, 1 oz pineapple juice, 1/2 oz Campari, 1/2 oz Maraschino, 1/2 oz Torani Amer (or pre-1980 Amer Picon) 2 dashes Peychaud Bitters.

We followed with a vintage cocktail from my new book. The Blinker Cocktail. 2 oz rye whiskey, 1 oz grapefruit juice, 1 tsp raspberry syrup (or 2 barspoons).

Chuck then made US a cocktail named for some British friends of his. The Hoskins Cocktail with that famous Dale Degroff touch, the flamed orange peel. Very orangey, and delightfully so, all over. So be it. It was delicious -- and orangey!

We followed with an inpromtu cocktail. I created it with 2 oz applejack, 1 oz lemon juice, 1 oz Campari (I'm on a kick!), 1/2 oz Clement Creole Shrub, a rum-based orange liqueur from Martinique and an orange twist.

Then we cleansed our palates with some Marc. just a Port glass quantity apiece. Fabulous, not just the flavor but the scent. It was great to share it.

I should say, all this time we were gorging on amazing cheeses, breads,papaya, and aged meats. This whole narrated experience took place over several hours.

It was then dessert time. We managed that with sherry glasses of VOV Zabaglione on crushed ice.

(All this isn't about Lillet, but as we hosted the author of the Lillet Tomlin, I thought it apropos - also the same sort of spirits & cocktail sampling as you foodies might describe for food courses, eh?)

All great fun!

--Doc.

[Sazerac]

(*POOF!*)

Mention my name three times and I, not unlike Beetlejuice, will appear (although, I hope, without snakes in my hair.)

Doc is indeed the world's most gracious host, and always turns me on to something wonderful. I've got to get a bottle of that marc!

Getting back on topic ... I'm mulling a few ideas for another Lillet-based cocktail, and shall report back after some experimentation.

Cheers!

[Splificator]

In one of those "oh damn I'm out of everything" moments last year I was driven to match Lillet and Irish whiskey, to extremely pleasant effect. The drink, which I call the "Weeski" (that's French for "whiskey," sez me), is assembled as follows:

Stir well with cracked ice:
2 oz Irish whiskey (I like Jameson's 12 or John Powers for this)
1 oz Lillet blanc
1 teaspoon Cointreau
2 dashes Fee's orange bitters
Strain into chilled cocktail glass and twist patch of thin-cut lemon peel over the top, which you may then drop in or discard as the spirit moves you.

I find the subtlety of Lillet tends to get drowned out by strong flavors, as does that of Irish whiskey; here, they complement each other.

[johnnyd]

On a whim, I made the following for a guest this easter sunday:

1oz Smirnoff
1oz Lillet blanc
1oz Italian Lemon Soda
Mint Leaf

within minutes, all hands held one and I was out of lillet. A big hit with no name. The lemon soda needs tweaking though. Bitter lemon? Lime-Seltzer? This is destined to be my hot summer-drink.

Suggestions?

[JAZ]

If you can find Meyer lemons, try adding a splash of the juice to your drink. I find the combination of Lillet and Meyer lemon juice works really well, and I imagine the mint would be a great addition.

[bleudauvergne]

I picked up a bottle of lillet (blond) tonight, because of this thread.

I think it's good cold and plain! Why mix it at all?

Oh well, I guess I'll have to try some of these fascinating mixes to find out why...

[aliwaks]

Here in Paris, I make a “Strawberry Blonde“

it's strawberry fresh purée, Lillet blanc and a splash of strawberry flavored vodka. Served in a martini glass and garnished with a strawberry and a mint leave.

It's a very feminine drink.

oh my that sounds soo good...., my favorite Lillet cocktail is a Lillet Kir with a nice dry provencal rose and lillet blond in place of cassis, had it in Paris, they were serving it at Novelty here in Phila a couple of years ago called an Alexandra after me me me also nice with sparkling

a freind of mine is on a Lillet kick and is in search of places that serve it...annoyingly though she insists on saying it with a French accent (she is so not French) which makes me want to kick her very hard in the shins, just the other day she bemoaned that the one of the few places she could find Lee laaaay is L"ex he gone (L'hexagon)..ugh

[katzenjammy]

On the rocks with an orange slice.

Oh yes, the orange slice is essential -- normally I prefer lemons or limes with my cocktails, but orange does something mysterious and wonderful to Lillet. The ice is best when cracked (but not crushed too fine). Mmmmm...must go to liquor store today.

Edited by katzenjammy, 07 May 2004 - 08:35 AM.

[trillium]

a freind of mine is on a Lillet kick and is in search of places that serve it...annoyingly though she insists on saying it with a French accent (she is so not French) which makes me want to kick her very hard in the shins, just the other day she bemoaned that the one of the few places she could find Lee laaaay is L"ex he gone (L'hexagon)..ugh

Um, I'm not French either but how else would you say it but that way? It's how I've always heard it pronounced even in the US.

regards,
trillium

[ludja]

On a whim, I made the following for a guest this easter sunday:

1oz Smirnoff
1oz Lillet blanc
1oz Italian Lemon Soda
Mint Leaf

within minutes, all hands held one and I was out of lillet. A big hit with no name. The lemon soda needs tweaking though. Bitter lemon? Lime-Seltzer? This is destined to be my hot summer-drink.

Suggestions?

Sounds like a nice light drink...

An idea for a name struck me because the drink is light and because it blends french/russian and italian. (french and russion ballet being intertwined):

Limone Pavlova

or

Limone Bolshoi

[Jonathan Day]

a freind of mine is on a Lillet kick and is in search of places that serve it...annoyingly though she insists on saying it with a French accent (she is so not French) which makes me want to kick her very hard in the shins, just the other day she bemoaned that the one of the few places she could find  Lee laaaay is L"ex he gone (L'hexagon)..ugh

Um, I'm not French either but how else would you say it but that way? It's how I've always heard it pronounced even in the US.

regards,
trillium

To rhyme with "skillet", I guess -- the same way many people in the UK pronounce "fillet" (steak, fish, etc.).

[aliwaks]

a freind of mine is on a Lillet kick and is in search of places that serve it...annoyingly though she insists on saying it with a French accent (she is so not French) which makes me want to kick her very hard in the shins, just the other day she bemoaned that the one of the few places she could find  Lee laaaay is L"ex he gone (L'hexagon)..ugh

Um, I'm not French either but how else would you say it but that way? It's how I've always heard it pronounced even in the US.

regards,
trillium

Dude when she says it she sound like that girl skunk that followed around PePe Le Pew...there's a way to speak a foreign word where you are paying respect to the way that word is pronounced with its mother tongue and then there is the exagerated accent which hints that perhaps English is not your first language, when in fact it is...the latter I find an annoying phenomenon amoungst the pretentious

" -Oh la la they do not serve Leeeee lay here, we should go somewhere else Non?"

vs

They don't have (phonetically) Li'lay, lets go somewhere where they do


- Its pet peeve of mine, she's not the only one

[trillium]

a freind of mine is on a Lillet kick and is in search of places that serve it...annoyingly though she insists on saying it with a French accent (she is so not French) which makes me want to kick her very hard in the shins, just the other day she bemoaned that the one of the few places she could find  Lee laaaay is L"ex he gone (L'hexagon)..ugh

Um, I'm not French either but how else would you say it but that way? It's how I've always heard it pronounced even in the US.

regards,
trillium

To rhyme with "skillet", I guess -- the same way many people in the UK pronounce "fillet" (steak, fish, etc.).

Oh jeez. If I pulled that I'd never hear the end of it from my French friends and colleagues. It's not like I even come close to pronouncing most words totally properly, I can tell by the slight smile on their faces, but still, an effort is only polite.

regards,
trillium (was asked this week by aforementioned French colleague I'd shared some terrine with if I had killed another pig yet...that made me laugh)

[hathor]

We break out the Lillet when the weather gets warm, I've always been a rocks and maybe slice of orange girl, but the strawberry/mint drinks sounds wonderful, as does the rose/lillet kir.
Quick anecdote: I was in Paris alone, dining at restaurant on the Place des Vosges, and asked for a Lillet as an aperitif. The waiter seemed very puzzled, then asked how I would like it, so in my best French, I asked for it on ice. By now, I'm as puzzled as the waiter. Then he brings me a large glass of milk, on ice, as is "lait"...we both had a good laugh, but he had honestly never heard of Lillet!

[trillium]

Dude when she says it she sound like that girl skunk that followed around PePe Le Pew...there's a way to speak a foreign word where you are paying respect to the way that word is pronounced with its mother tongue and then there is the exagerated accent which hints that perhaps English is not your first language, when in fact it is...the latter I find an annoying phenomenon amoungst the pretentious

" -Oh la la they do not serve Leeeee lay here, we should go somewhere else Non?"

vs

They don't have (phonetically) Li'lay, lets go somewhere where they do


- Its pet peeve of mine, she's not the only one

Gotcha. Affectations of any sort are annoying as hell, I agree.

regards,
trillium

[slkinsey]

Dude when she says it she sound like that girl skunk that followed around PePe Le Pew...there's a way to speak a foreign word where you are paying respect to the way that word is pronounced with its mother tongue and then there is the exagerated accent which hints that perhaps English is not your first language, when in fact it is...the latter I find an annoying phenomenon amoungst the pretentious

" -Oh la la they do not serve Leeeee lay here, we should go somewhere else Non?"

vs

They don't have (phonetically) Li'lay, lets go somewhere where they do


- Its pet peeve of mine, she's not the only one

Gotcha. Affectations of any sort are annoying as hell, I agree.

regards,
trillium

All the moreso given the fact that such affectations are usually incorrect. Anyone who called it "leeeeeee lay" would have the acceeeeeeeeent on the wrong syllaaaaaaaable.

[bleudauvergne]

When I asked for it from the wine guy, he did not know what I was saying. I was going heavy on the L. He then figured it out and pronounced it like "Lily" with a little bit more "ay" at the end, and a kind of soft L. I just decided to test and see what my husband would say - I held up the near empty bottle which we have been chipping away at and asked him in a kind of demanding voice how it was pronounced. He got very nervous and recited the lily thing but when I repeated him exactly and asked if he was sure, he said maybe it was pronounced with the "L" silent, he could not be sure. On my second glass, I now wonder if this is served in Japan and how they pronounce it there.

Edited by bleudauvergne, 09 May 2004 - 11:39 AM.

[Behemoth]

I've had the same bottle Limoncello and Aquavit in my freezer for five years.

Lord, girl, you needs to drink more.

Friends got me into Martini Bianco (not the light-colored dry vermouth, and definitely not the red kind!) when I was in Germany last summer but the only place I have been able to find it here is when I visit my grandmother in Florida. How does that compare wiz zee leelay blanc?

re: accents -- I find myself mispronouncing (americanizing) foreign words often to
a) not draw attention to myself
b) be understood
but lately I have been feeling like a total pussy for doing so. From now on I say, if you can say it right, damnit, say it right.

[Jonathan Day]

Here in the UK there is a long-established tradition, particularly amongst the upper and highly educated classes, of pronouncing French words and place-names in an, er, special manner. Dordogne is pronounced "Door-DOIN" (the first syllable rhymes with "more", the second with "coin"). Boulogne gets a similar treatment and comes out as "Boo-LOIN". I've already noted "fillet".

Amongst lawyers (barristers especially) there is a range of words in "legal French", some of which come from mediaeval French but all of which get a special pronunciation; the only one that comes immediately to mind is "puisne", pronounced "puny", but there are many others.

To return to the topic: I love Lillet, served with ice and a twist of orange. It is common in the homes of French friends, but for some reason it is rarely offered as an aperitif in restaurants there. I don't know why, because it's a great way to start a meal.

[JAZ]

Having started this thread, I sheepishly have to admit that I've just recently tried Lillet over ice, on its own. A really nice way to begin a meal, especially if you know the food is going to be rich and full flavored.

And I've always pronounced it "li-lay" -- short i, with the accent on the last syllable. Now I'm wondering --isn't that right?

[slkinsey]

And I've always pronounced it "li-lay" -- short i, with the accent on the last syllable. Now I'm wondering --isn't that right?

AFAIK, there is no {I} (as in "is") vowel in French, only the {i} (as in "see") vowel.

Strictly speaking, I would pronounce "Lillet" as: lee-LEH (in the International Phonetic Alphabet: [li-'lE]). If I were saying "Lillet" while speaking French, I'd hit the "Ls" very lightly with the tip of the tongue. When saying "Lillet" while speaking English, I'll use regular old American English "Ls." If I were singing "Lillet" in French, I'd even go so far as to linger on the double "L" between the syllables.

[Betts]

From my French class days -- a double "L" preceded by a vowel is pronounced as a "Y". Think Chantilly as chan -tee-ee. If this is true would'nt it be lee-yea? with equal stress on both syllables?

[mongo_jones]

i feel very foolish asking this, but what does lillet taste like?

[Jonathan Day]

From my French class days -- a double "L" preceded by a vowel is pronounced as a "Y".  Think Chantilly as chan -tee-ee.  If this is true would'nt it be lee-yea? with equal stress on both syllables?

A better analogy might be with Fr ville or village. The ls are sounded, but only very lightly.

[bleudauvergne]

i feel very foolish asking this, but what does lillet taste like?

It has a light and delicate flavor, which was why I could not see this as a mixer. It tastes like a cross between dry white vermouth and a fruity muscat. It's quite addictive and you can count on having a second glass if you have it as an aperetif.

Edited by bleudauvergne, 10 May 2004 - 02:08 AM.

[little ms foodie]

We  break out the Lillet when the weather gets warm, I've always been a rocks and maybe slice of orange girl, but the strawberry/mint drinks sounds wonderful, as does the rose/lillet kir.
Quick anecdote: I was in Paris alone, dining at restaurant on the Place des Vosges, and asked for a Lillet as an aperitif. The waiter seemed very puzzled, then asked how I would like it, so in my best French, I asked for it on ice. By now, I'm as puzzled as the waiter.  Then he brings me a large glass of milk, on ice, as is "lait"...we both had a good laugh, but he had honestly never heard of Lillet! 

Holy crap!! This exact same thing happened to me in the south of France this summer!!Soooo funny!

[the queneau]

Strictly speaking, I would pronounce "Lillet" as: lee-LEH (in the International Phonetic Alphabet: [li-'lE]).  If I were saying "Lillet" while speaking French, I'd hit the "Ls" very lightly with the tip of the tongue.  When saying "Lillet" while speaking English, I'll use regular old American English "Ls."  If I were singing "Lillet" in French, I'd even go so far as to linger on the double "L" between the syllables.

Americans pronouncing French make me giggle. Simple règle of the auld pouce:

2 syllable werd? Place ewer stress on the first syllable via a minor rising cadence, and finish the second syllable with a falling cadence. Keep it short. The notion of an extended vowel in French is a wee bit dingue, and makes ewe sound silly.

All of these werks for Lillet and anything else is wrong.

Thus spake the Queneau.

[slkinsey]

Americans pronouncing French make me giggle. Simple règle of the auld pouce:

2 syllable werd? Place ewer stress on the first syllable via a minor rising cadence, and finish the second syllable with a falling cadence. Keep it short. The notion of an extended vowel in French is a wee bit dingue, and makes ewe sound silly.

All of these werks for Lillet and anything else is wrong.

Thus spake the Queneau.

This is kind of cute, what with the homophonic affectations and all. But I don't think it is correct. Notwithstanding the fact that no three French speakers will agree on the precise pronunciation of a word, the general rule of thumb for two-syllable words in French is to place the stress on the final syllable. As in parFAIT, bonJOUR, voyAGE, aimER, etc. This, of course, does not mean that one won't hear BONjour instead of bonJOUR (etc.) in certain parts of France, but I believe that would be considered an accent much like "warsh" instead of "wash" down around Baltimore. But, hey, don't take my word for it: thus speaks the course materials for French 200 at Indiana University.

[the queneau]

This is kind of cute, what with the homophonic affectations and all.  But I don't think it is correct.  Notwithstanding the fact that no three French speakers will agree on the precise pronunciation of a word, the general rule of thumb for two-syllable words in French is to place the stress on the final syllable.  As in parFAIT, bonJOUR, voyAGE, aimER, etc.  This, of course, does not mean that one won't hear BONjour instead of bonJOUR (etc.) in certain parts of France, but I believe that would be considered an accent much like "warsh" instead of "wash" down around Baltimore.  But, hey, don't take my word for it: thus speaks the course materials for French 200 at Indiana University.

I think this might be one of those cyclical discussions where I say "Hmmm.. 'fraid ewe be wrong", and ewe counter by saying " Hmm.. I think ewe be wrong". Suffice to say, I'm not sure where ewe've lived in France, but ewer point about placing stress on the subordinate syllable is something of a cultural misnomer, the like of which is only found in a créole patois such as that in La Réunion. It simply isn't common practice in La France Métropole.

As for ewer point about not being able to find 3 French speakers to agree on the pronunciation of a werd, I think cultural anecdotes like this are pretty disingenuous, non? As well as being rather upsetting to the likes of Hélène Cixous.

As for not taking ewer werd for it, well, with all due respect, I won't. I'm a native French speaker who is 2/3 of the whey through my PhD. in the socio-linguistics of French Cultural Tourism of the Inter-War Years (if we're using academic clout to beef up an argument).

But we digress.

[slkinsey]

But we digress.

Indeed, yew halve a pointe they're. Lettuce knot continue.