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Using Lard in Pastry


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#31 Marlene

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Posted 03 June 2003 - 05:29 AM

I have one chocolate chip cookie recipe that uses lard. I also use a small bit of it in my roasting pan when I'm roasting potatoes with the roast.
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#32 Fish

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Posted 03 June 2003 - 11:10 AM

Also, I suspect that anyone following a kosher diet wouldn't bother with any food brought into the office by another co-worker. 


You never know - there are lots of people who don't eat pork, and not just Jews. And there are lots of Jews who don't keep strictly kosher (and would eat cookies in the office) but definitely won't eat pork (e.g. me)

If I had eaten one of those cookies and you hadn't mentioned the lard, I would be really unhappy with you.

Morale of the story: always mention ingredients people might have a problem with, unless you know (for sure).

- S

#33 slkinsey

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Posted 03 June 2003 - 11:46 AM

Also, I suspect that anyone following a kosher diet wouldn't bother with any food brought into the office by another co-worker. 


You never know - there are lots of people who don't eat pork, and not just Jews. And there are lots of Jews who don't keep strictly kosher (and would eat cookies in the office) but definitely won't eat pork (e.g. me)

If I had eaten one of those cookies and you hadn't mentioned the lard, I would be really unhappy with you.

Morale of the story: always mention ingredients people might have a problem with, unless you know (for sure).

How is someone supposed to know what other people might have a problem eating? I mean, some people -- crazy people, I know -- don't eat butter. Some people don't eat products that come from certain parts of the world for political reasons. Some people don't eat refined sugar. If I make a bunch of chocolate chip cookies and take them to work, should I provide a list of ingredients for everyone? No, that just seems silly.

In my opinion, if a person has certain dietary restrictions then it is incumbent upon him/her to inquire as to the ingredients before eating. This is pretty much standard practice among considerate vegetarians ("is there any meat broth in this onion soup?"), kosher or "kosher-lite" pork-free eaters ("is this a beef/kosher salami?") and people with food allergies ("was this cooked with peanut oil?"). If you have such a problem with pork that you would be seriously upset at eating a cookie prepared with lard, then my feeling is that you should ask before eating.

I would also like to add that I know a number of pretty serious kosher and vegetarian types, and they all usually provide their own food or ask questions before trying any unfamiliar food. Similarly, in the few occasions when they discovered that they had eaten something they shouldn't have, they rolled with the punches and shook it off... they figured that neither YHWH nor the Big Vegetable in The Sky was going to hit them with a thunderbolt for eating a cookie with lard in it by mistake.

That said, if I had prepared cookies containing lard and I knew you didn't eat pork, I'd try to tell you. If I didn't know, on the other hand, I don't think it's a requirement.
Samuel Lloyd Kinsey

#34 claire797

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Posted 03 June 2003 - 11:53 AM

Also, I suspect that anyone following a kosher diet wouldn't bother with any food brought into the office by another co-worker. 


You never know - there are lots of people who don't eat pork, and not just Jews. And there are lots of Jews who don't keep strictly kosher (and would eat cookies in the office) but definitely won't eat pork (e.g. me)

If I had eaten one of those cookies and you hadn't mentioned the lard, I would be really unhappy with you.

Morale of the story: always mention ingredients people might have a problem with, unless you know (for sure).

- S

Fish,

Again, had my co-workers (all 3 of them!) been vegans or Kosher, I would have mentioned it right away. That said, I would have no problem whatsoever putting any leftover cookies in the break room for anyone wandering by who was hungry for cookies. And NO! I would not put a sign saying "Warning: Cookies contain lard."

I believe that if you are trying to follow any sort of special diet, especially a kosher or vegan diet, then it is your responsibility to ask if the cookies have any sort of things you might not want.

For instance, if I were a vegan I might say this:

"Wow! Thanks for bringing cookies. I'd love to try one, but as you know I don't eat butter, eggs or milk. Are those vegan cookies? No? Well, thanks anyway."

If I were trying to keep Kosher I might say this:

"Wow! Thanks for bringing cookies. I'd love to try one, but as you know I don't eat anything unless it comes from a Kosher kitchen. Is your kitchen Kosher? No? Well, thanks anyway."

I guess what you're saying is that you (an, um "sort of" kosher) would not expect an innocent ginger cookie to be made with pork fat. Here's a script for you:

"Wow! Thanks for bringing cookies! Some chick on this food website I frequent made cookies with lard. I don't eat anything with lard since I avoid pork. I'm sure your cookies don't have lard, so I'm going to enjoy one. Thanks!

At that point, your co-workers script might be.

"Wow! What sort of demented person would cook with lard? Of course my cookies are made with Duncan Hines's finest cookie mix. Please help yourself."

At which point you could eat a cookie and lay any blame for your dietary indiscretions on either Duncan Hines (whose ingredients you didn't bother to question because no one could understand what they actually were) or your evil, horrible co-worker who tempted you with cookies.

#35 Xanthippe

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Posted 03 June 2003 - 12:35 PM

Also, I suspect that anyone following a kosher diet wouldn't bother with any food brought into the office by another co-worker. 


You never know - there are lots of people who don't eat pork, and not just Jews. And there are lots of Jews who don't keep strictly kosher (and would eat cookies in the office) but definitely won't eat pork (e.g. me)

If I had eaten one of those cookies and you hadn't mentioned the lard, I would be really unhappy with you.

Morale of the story: always mention ingredients people might have a problem with, unless you know (for sure).

- S

Fish,

Again, had my co-workers (all 3 of them!) been vegans or Kosher, I would have mentioned it right away. That said, I would have no problem whatsoever putting any leftover cookies in the break room for anyone wandering by who was hungry for cookies. And NO! I would not put a sign saying "Warning: Cookies contain lard."

I believe that if you are trying to follow any sort of special diet, especially a kosher or vegan diet, then it is your responsibility to ask if the cookies have any sort of things you might not want.

For instance, if I were a vegan I might say this:

"Wow! Thanks for bringing cookies. I'd love to try one, but as you know I don't eat butter, eggs or milk. Are those vegan cookies? No? Well, thanks anyway."

If I were trying to keep Kosher I might say this:

"Wow! Thanks for bringing cookies. I'd love to try one, but as you know I don't eat anything unless it comes from a Kosher kitchen. Is your kitchen Kosher? No? Well, thanks anyway."

I guess what you're saying is that you (an, um "sort of" kosher) would not expect an innocent ginger cookie to be made with pork fat. Here's a script for you:

"Wow! Thanks for bringing cookies! Some chick on this food website I frequent made cookies with lard. I don't eat anything with lard since I avoid pork. I'm sure your cookies don't have lard, so I'm going to enjoy one. Thanks!

At that point, your co-workers script might be.

"Wow! What sort of demented person would cook with lard? Of course my cookies are made with Duncan Hines's finest cookie mix. Please help yourself."

At which point you could eat a cookie and lay any blame for your dietary indiscretions on either Duncan Hines (whose ingredients you didn't bother to question because no one could understand what they actually were) or your evil, horrible co-worker who tempted you with cookies.

Brilliant, claire797! You go!!!

And I've been meaning to ask: Is the cutie-pie avatar your daughter??

#36 cakewalk

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Posted 03 June 2003 - 01:40 PM

I'd agree that it's my responsibility to ask what's in the cookies if I place any sort of restrictions on what I eat.

Of course, there are a lot of people who fall into the "don't ask, don't tell" category. :wink: And like it that way.

I remember when Oreos were made with animal fat. I never understood why they were so much better than Sunshine Hydrox. :hmmm: Then someone explained it to me.

#37 s'kat

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Posted 04 June 2003 - 06:04 AM

Brilliant, claire797!  You go!!!

Oh my, I don't think I've ever shot coffee from nose before. :laugh:

#38 claire797

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Posted 04 June 2003 - 06:23 AM

Brilliant, claire797!  You go!!!

Oh my, I don't think I've ever shot coffee from nose before. :laugh:

s'kat, I don't know why you're laughing. I am dead serious.

Cakewalk, that is exactly my point. If you are following dietary restrictions, than you should ask what the ingredients are. Same thing applies to label reading. If you are trying to stay away from pork fat, your choice is to read the label or live in ignorant bliss.

Varmint, thanks to your input, I will be whipping up some lard biscuits in the very near future. Found a good recipe last night that calls for lard and White Lily flour.

Marlene, I've tried chocolate chip cookies with half butter, half lard. The cookies were good, but I don't think the lard made that much of a difference in the texture. Never thought about using it to roast potatoes.

Torakris, how do you plan to use your lard?

Xanthippe, you should make those gingersnaps and report back.

#39 Xanthippe

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Posted 04 June 2003 - 12:46 PM

s'kat, I don't know why you're laughing.  I am dead serious.

Cakewalk, that is exactly my point.  If you are following dietary restrictions, than you should ask what the ingredients are.  Same thing applies to label reading.  If you are trying to stay away from pork fat, your choice is to read the label or live in ignorant bliss.

Yes. Assuming personal responsibility is another step in the process of becoming an adult. Period. I do not look to others for the information I require to make certain choices, particularly the dietary kind; I read labels, I become an informed consumer, I ask questions.

Xanthippe, you should make those gingersnaps and report back.

As it happens, I'm picking up another order of lard from the butcher today, claire. I intend to make the gingersnaps either this afternoon or tomorrow. And I will report back . . .

#40 claire797

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Posted 04 June 2003 - 03:46 PM

As it happens, I'm picking up another order of lard from the butcher today, claire.  I intend to make the gingersnaps either this afternoon or tomorrow.  And I will report back . . .

Cool. Can't wait to hear how they turn out. I think I may use the rest of my lard for french fries. Would pure lard work for french fries?

#41 torakris

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Posted 04 June 2003 - 04:02 PM

Torakris, how do you plan to use your lard?

probaby in tortillas! :biggrin:

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#42 claire797

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Posted 04 June 2003 - 04:15 PM



Torakris, how do you plan to use your lard?

probaby in tortillas! :biggrin:

You mean, your corner store doesn't sell tortillas??? Shocking!

#43 torakris

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Posted 04 June 2003 - 04:17 PM



Torakris, how do you plan to use your lard?

probaby in tortillas! :biggrin:

You mean, your corner store doesn't sell tortillas??? Shocking!

Actually the store just a bit aways from me sells a pack of (6 inch ones!) for something like $2.50, I can travel a little farther and get a pack of 10 (6 inchers) for $4.50.
It is a heck of a lot cheaper to make them and they taste soooo much better.

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#44 Xanthippe

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Posted 04 June 2003 - 05:50 PM

As it happens, I'm picking up another order of lard from the butcher today, claire.  I intend to make the gingersnaps either this afternoon or tomorrow.  And I will report back . . .

Cool. Can't wait to hear how they turn out. I think I may use the rest of my lard for french fries. Would pure lard work for french fries?

Some of the best french fries I've ever tasted were done in pure lard. Seems as though that's the preferred lipid of choice out in Iowa.

Go for it . . .

#45 elyse

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Posted 04 June 2003 - 06:44 PM

Claire, you crack me up!

I believe Mc Donnalds used to use pure lard for their fries.

#46 slkinsey

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Posted 04 June 2003 - 07:06 PM

I believe Mc Donnalds used to use pure lard for their fries.

I always thought they used to use beef tallow.
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#47 claire797

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Posted 04 June 2003 - 07:48 PM

I believe Mc Donnalds used to use pure lard for their fries.

I always thought they used to use beef tallow.

What's the differene between beef tallow and lard? Is lard from a pig and beef tallow expressly from cows?

Xanthippe, I'm happy to hear you could really taste the difference in the lard fries. My plan is to try the fries on Friday night, so I'll report back.

Kristin, I am amazed that you can find tortillas in Japan. Flour or corn? Also, do you have to use a tortilla press?

#48 torakris

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Posted 04 June 2003 - 08:35 PM

Kristin, I am amazed that you can find tortillas in Japan.  Flour or corn?  Also, do you have to use a tortilla press?

They are quite new to this country and normally only available at "International" supermarkets, they have both flour and corn as well as El Paso brand everything (taco kits, salsa, chiles, etc)

I make flour tortillas and roll it with a roll pin.

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#49 ruthcooks

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Posted 04 June 2003 - 08:48 PM

Food fried in lard does not absorb fat as much as if fried in vegetable fats. And it tastes better, like French fries.

Lard in pie crusts, not in cookies, was the way my mother cooked.

Catfish fried in lard, excellent.

If it's good lard.
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#50 snowangel

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Posted 04 June 2003 - 08:52 PM

Morale of the story: always mention ingredients people might have a problem with, unless you know (for sure). 

  - S

No. If you have dietary restriction for whatever reason, it is the responsibility of the individual with the dietary restriction (or caregiver of said person) make sure that dietary restrictions are not violated, or avoid food if no clear answer is given.

It is absolutely impossible to cover every possible restriction. Who'd know that if my daughter drinks diet pop, she'd probably have countless seizures? Who'd think that diet pop is dangerous to some people?
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#51 slkinsey

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Posted 04 June 2003 - 09:03 PM

I believe Mc Donnalds used to use pure lard for their fries.

I always thought they used to use beef tallow.

What's the differene between beef tallow and lard? Is lard from a pig and beef tallow expressly from cows?

Yes. Lard is pig fat and tallow is cow or sheep fat.

From the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

Main Entry: lard
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin lardum, laridum; perhaps akin to Greek larinos fat
Date: 14th century
: a soft white solid or semisolid fat obtained by rendering fatty tissue of the hog

Main Entry: tallow
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English talgh, talow; akin to Middle Dutch talch tallow
Date: 14th century
: the white nearly tasteless solid rendered fat of cattle and sheep used chiefly in soap, candles, and lubricants


I don't know if I totally agree with the tallow definition, though.
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#52 Xanthippe

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Posted 05 June 2003 - 11:47 AM

Xanthippe, I'm happy to hear you could really taste the difference in the lard fries.  My plan is to try the fries on Friday night, so I'll report back.

Really, I still dream about those lard fries. They were served alongside a pork tenderloin sandwich unlike any I've ever had; the meat, roughly the size of a Frisbee, dwarfed the bun!! It was really quite something.

My favorite Iowa story involves a vegetarian brother-in-law who ordered a "Vegetable Burger" at the very same restaurant. He was served a hamburger with tomato, lettuce, and onion. Hey, they're vegetables, right??!? :biggrin: :biggrin:

You gotta love Iowa . . .

Claire, I'm making the lard gingersnaps this afternoon.

#53 claire797

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Posted 05 June 2003 - 12:05 PM

I believe Mc Donnalds used to use pure lard for their fries.

I always thought they used to use beef tallow.

What's the differene between beef tallow and lard? Is lard from a pig and beef tallow expressly from cows?

Yes. Lard is pig fat and tallow is cow or sheep fat.

From the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

Main Entry: lard
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin lardum, laridum; perhaps akin to Greek larinos fat
Date: 14th century
: a soft white solid or semisolid fat obtained by rendering fatty tissue of the hog

Main Entry: tallow
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English talgh, talow; akin to Middle Dutch talch tallow
Date: 14th century
: the white nearly tasteless solid rendered fat of cattle and sheep used chiefly in soap, candles, and lubricants


I don't know if I totally agree with the tallow definition, though.

Which part do you not agree with? That it is tasteless?

#54 claire797

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Posted 05 June 2003 - 12:09 PM

Really, I still dream about those lard fries.

COOOOoooooool.

BTW. When you're making the lardsnaps, you may want to cut the cayenne a bit.

Here's a picture of one of mine. Made a batch this morning.

Posted Image (not such a great picture, sorry)

Edited by claire797, 05 June 2003 - 12:10 PM.


#55 slkinsey

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Posted 05 June 2003 - 01:31 PM


From the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

Main Entry: tallow
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English talgh, talow; akin to Middle Dutch talch tallow
Date: 14th century
: the white nearly tasteless solid rendered fat of cattle and sheep used chiefly in soap, candles, and lubricants

I don't know if I totally agree with the tallow definition, though.

Which part do you not agree with? That it is tasteless?

Well, yes. Both that it is tasteless and the implication that it is best used in industrial applications... although I suppose that may be the case. On the other hand, maybe "tallow" only refers to "industrial beef fat." I certainly would not characterize the golden elixir pooled at one end of a Peter Luger platter as "tasteless." I wonder why people don't cook with beef fat the way they cook with lard?

Anyway, this is a definition of tallow I liked better (from here):

tallow

\Tal"low\, n. [OE. taluh, talugh; akin to OD. talgh, D. talk, G., Dan. and Sw. talg, Icel. t[=o]lgr, t[=o]lg, t[=o]lk; and perhaps to Goth. tulgus firm.] 1. The suet or fat of animals of the sheep and ox kinds, separated from membranous and fibrous matter by melting.

Note: The solid consistency of tallow is due to the large amount of stearin it contains


Samuel Lloyd Kinsey

#56 elyse

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Posted 05 June 2003 - 02:51 PM

My favorite Iowa story involves a vegetarian brother-in-law who ordered a "Vegetable Burger" at the very same restaurant.  He was served a hamburger with tomato, lettuce, and onion.  Hey, they're vegetables, right??!?  :biggrin:  :biggrin:

That is so funny!

Lardsnaps! :laugh:

#57 Xanthippe

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Posted 05 June 2003 - 05:53 PM

COOOOoooooool.

BTW.  When you're making the lardsnaps, you may want to cut the cayenne a bit. 

Here's a picture of one of mine.  Made a batch this morning.

Posted Image (not such a great picture, sorry)

Oops! The finished dough, containing the full amount of cayenne, has been chilling in the fridge for a couple hours now. I was just about to bake the cookies.

Guess they'll be really "snappy" lardsnaps! :biggrin:

#58 Xanthippe

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Posted 05 June 2003 - 05:56 PM

My favorite Iowa story involves a vegetarian brother-in-law who ordered a "Vegetable Burger" at the very same restaurant.  He was served a hamburger with tomato, lettuce, and onion.  Hey, they're vegetables, right??!?  :biggrin:  :biggrin:

That is so funny!

Funny and true!! Quintessential Iowa . . .

Lardsnaps! :laugh:

Isn't that great? I think claire should change the name of the recipe to "Laudable Lardsnaps"!

Edited by Xanthippe, 05 June 2003 - 06:53 PM.


#59 KNorthrup

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Posted 05 June 2003 - 06:10 PM

[quote name='Xanthippe' date='Jun 5 2003, 11:47 AM'] [/QUOTE]
Really, I still dream about those lard fries. They were served alongside a pork tenderloin sandwich unlike any I've ever had; the meat, roughly the size of a Frisbee, dwarfed the bun!! It was really quite something. [/quote]
There was a place when I was a kid that did their fries -- and probably other things -- in coconut oil. There was a definite extra layer of decadence. Eventually they switched to something more conventional and the rumour was that the health dept had forced them to but I'm sure it was a business decision.


Heck of a game going on right now. Hey, ducks are food.

#60 Xanthippe

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Posted 05 June 2003 - 06:56 PM

Heck of a game going on right now.  Hey, ducks are food.

Oregon Ducks??