138 replies to this topic

[Bux]

Croissants degrade fairly quickly. On the other hand they freeze rather well. I'd want to freeze them as soon after they're bought as possible. I don't think there's much point in freezing day old croissants. I remember when there were no good pastry shop bakeries near us and we used to buy croissants and freeze them. We'd defrost and reheat them in the oven and they were quite good, if not quite as good as fresh. Stale croissants make great bread pudding.

I agree with Rachel. When we have guests from Europe, we try to serve them American things. I'd suggest English muffins, bagels, corn muffins, blueberry muffins, etc. The bagels perhaps with cream cheese and smoked salmon. The rest with some good jams. If you can find some local ones, all the better. I have had croissants in NY that were better than many in France, but on the whole, we don't have the same flour or butter and the best ones are better in France.

[TrishCT]

Speaking  of croissants, does anybody have any "fabulous croissant" tips?

....nutella and strawberries....

[Ling]

Stale croissants make great bread pudding.

I would suggest making bread pudding with the croissants too. Then you wouldn't have to waste them, and have dessert taken care of the night they come.

[Niall]

...... When we have guests from Europe, we try to serve them American things. I'd suggest English muffins, .....

Is it just me that finds this vaguely amusing.

Edited by Niall, 27 October 2003 - 11:13 PM.

[browniebaker]

...... When we have guests from Europe, we try to serve them American things. I'd suggest English muffins, .....

Is it just me that finds this vaguely amusing.

English muffins, which are not really English but American.

[sherribabee]

I agree with Rachel. When we have guests from Europe, we try to serve them American things. I'd suggest English muffins, bagels, corn muffins, blueberry muffins, etc. The bagels perhaps with cream cheese and smoked salmon. The rest with some good jams. If you can find some local ones, all the better. I have had croissants in NY that were better than many in France, but on the whole, we don't have the same flour or butter and the best ones are better in France.

I agree too.

My friends from France love -- I mean LOVE -- muffins. The bagels (I'm in NYC) didn't go over nearly as well as the muffins though, surprisingly. I think serving French folks croissants in the US would be akin to going to France and being served sub-par burgers.

I think your idea of BBQ is fantastic! I'd suggest eating the croissants yourself and then either baking or hitting up the local bakery for some fresh muffins the morning your guests arrive. Blueberry, banana, and orange-carrot were the faves among my pals.

[Maison Rustique]

Thanks for all the great suggestions! Bread pudding is sounding pretty good right now....

[maggiethecat]

My father splits day-old (even two day old) croissants and crisps them up in the toaster. No, they're not as good as fresh, but delicious nonetheless.

[nightscotsman]

Another great use for day-old croissants: almond croissants!

Split open croissants, brush cut sides with almond syrup, fill with almond frangipane, put halves back together and spread top with a little more almond cream and sliced almonds. Bake until topping is browned and almond filling is baked through but still moist.

Yum.

[tammylc]

Stale croissants make great bread pudding.

I would suggest making bread pudding with the croissants too. Then you wouldn't have to waste them, and have dessert taken care of the night they come.

And I'll third that suggestion. First thing I thought of when I saw your question!

[rhumy]

if you make almond croissants be sure to sprinkle (or brush) some rum (or brandy?) on the cut halves. I wouldn't have my croissant almonde any other way. I think you could freeze these after you prep them and bake them off later. Has anyone done this, or is it a bad idea?

[zilla369]

Day-old croissants make fantastic French toast.

But there we go again.

[Bux]

Muffins, by the way, have become very French. They are all over the place, but I've found the French miss the mark the way we often miss the mark on croissants, and I'm not a muffin fan. Maybe it's the fact that I don't love muffins that makes me critical of the bad ones.

[Joni]

Yes...make the twice baked almond croissants or brioche from Julia Child!! Wondeful...only way to eat croissants..American Boulangerie has a recipe for twice baked filling with pastry cream and almonds...fabulous.

[plunk]

Last weekend I attempted to make homemade croissants and the recipe I used was from Baking With Julia. I found that the amount of liquid called for in the dough portion wasn't enough to moisten all of the flour so I had to add more. This may be an issue with my flour but regardless, I think the dough got kneaded too long in trying to incorporate more water. I had problems with the rolling and turning, just couldn't get the stuff to roll out as large as the recipe said because the dough was too elastic. I also had a few problems with the butter leaking out as I rolled.

Ultimately, I proceeded all the way through with the recipe, did the forming, rising, and baking. Even before they went into the oven, I knew that they weren't going to turn out simply because of all the problems I already had but I wanted to carry it through anyways, to learn from my mistakes if nothing else. I wasn't at all surprised when a lot of the butter leaked out and pooled as they baked. The tops still came out crispy, there was some puffage, the insides kind of resemble the croissants from the French bakery down the street, and my husband thought they were great for a first attempt so it wasn't a total loss even though I was pretty disappointed.

Afterwards, I went through all of my cookbooks and some websites that had croissant recipes. I was most interested in the dough ingredients and proportions in each recipe. There seems to be quite a variation. A lot of recipes seems to indicate that you want to work the dough as little as possible so that rolling will be easier, but some say to knead for a few minutes in a mixer. Shirley Corriher's book Cookwise says that you want the dough to be very soft, almost sticky, which also helps with the rolling but this seems to contradict most recipes that I've read which say to only add as much water as it takes for the dough to form a ball, like in a food processor.

This is probably the sort of project that would be much easier if I can see someone else make it, so I can poke and prod for texture and feel. Does anyone have any suggestions or tips about what I should do the next time? Yes, crazy as it sounds, I want to try this again but maybe in six months when the weather is nice and cold rather than the start of summer..

Edited by plunk, 30 May 2004 - 07:10 PM.

[kurl]

There's a long long video of Julia cooking croissants somewhere on the internet -- it was posted in a thread here at one point, but I don't have the link handy. If someone could provide that, it may possibly help.

Good luck!

[artisanbaker]

-croissant dough should be firm. (i would consider myself to be very good at making them)

-it should only be mixed to about half that of a pan bread dough. the remaining development will take place as it is folded.

-few recipes for amateurs are precisely correct. ask questions and use your intution during fabrication.

-try using a european style butter. you'll get better flakes and flavor.

good luck and it is usually easier during the cooler months. no matter what result i think you fill find it rewarding!

[mkfradin]

You raised a number of really good questions, and I can offer my two cents worth, although I'm sure there are as many good ways to make croissants as there are good pastry chefs!

I don't like to overwork the dough initially, b/c it is such a pain to roll it out! The softer and less elastic the dough, the easier it'll be on your shoulders. We have a sheeter now, but I'll never forget trying to roll out 12# of overchilled, overkneaded dough, kneeling on my bench to get all my weight on top of the dough!

I'm not sure what the additional water in the dough would do, other than making it stickier. If your dough is really sticky, just use extra flour. Don't be afraid of it; you can always brush off the excess before doing your turns.

I had a problem with butter leaking out till I spoke to one of my instructors, who informed me that I was proofing the croissants at too high of a temperature. I was placing them in my gas oven with the pilot, and the butter was melting. Don't proof at any higher than 78-80. I do this now by putting a pan of steaming water in my oven along with the croissants. Who needs an electric proofer!!

One of the bonuses of leaking butter is the bottom of your pastry fries and gets all crisp and yummy. If this continues to happen, you can tell everyone that you invented something new. They will still taste great, and no one will know the difference.

BTW, the same chef who helped me also told me my formula was bad, b/c it didn't use any butter in the detrempe. I made his recipe (in bulk--big mistake) and it wasn't nearly as good as mine, I thought. So keep trying, but do what works for you, not what you think you're supposed to do.

Good luck!!!

Marjorie

[andiesenji]

If you can find Nick Malgieri's book, "How To Bake" at your local library, copy his recipe and try it.
I have been making croissants for many years but after I bought this book, perhaps ten years ago, I switched to his recipe and never looked back. I use Plugra, a European butter and it must be unsalted. The croissants are very flaky, tender and have great flavor. The dough has enough body to stand up to fillings, even as substantial as ham and cheese.

It is true that if the ambient temperature is too high you can run into problems but I live in the California desert and I manage to make them except during the days when temps are well over 100. I do have air conditioning but because of our energy constraints I do not keep the thermostat set very low. I use fans quite a bit and also do a lot of work at night (temps drop rapidly after sunset)

I have a marble-topped cart and can cool the surface by placing cold packs (blue-ice) on the table, or I have one that has a stainless steel stop with two drawers directly under the top and I fill those drawers with the blue ice packs to cool the table top.
I work the dough for a while then put it in the fridge to rest while I re-cool the slab if working on the marble.

[plunk]

There's a long long video of Julia cooking croissants somewhere on the internet -- it was posted in a thread here at one point, but I don't have the link handy. If someone could provide that, it may possibly help.

Good luck!

Duh of course! The PBS video clips, I had totally forgotten about those.

If you go to the Prime Video Cuts page for Julia's shows and search for "croissants" for the Baking with Julia show, it'll come back with two links for the croissants show. Part 1 is making and rolling the dough, Part 2 is shaping and baking. I'm having trouble with the site though, can't seem to get the download working but I will keep trying.

Andiesenji, thanks for the book tip, my local library does have it. Do you remember what it was exactly that made you switch Nick's recipe over your previous ones?

To add to my original post, I'm using a cultured unsalted butter. Not sure if it has a high enough fat percentage as the European butters but it's the closest thing I can find.

About keeping things enough while rolling, should the butter not be so cold that it cracks while rolling? The recipe saod to put the dough in the refridgerator for two hours in between turns and the butter did crack within the dough as I rolled, until it got too warm and then it leaked out (argh). I think next time I will try to keep the butter more pliable and roll on a chilled marble board.

For the baking, do I want a hotter oven? Say 400+ rather than 350?

Thanks to everyone for all their feedback and help!

[andiesenji]

Andiesenji, thanks for the book tip, my local library does have it. Do you remember what it was exactly that made you switch Nick's recipe over your previous ones?

To add to my original post, I'm using a cultured unsalted butter. Not sure if it has a high enough fat percentage as the European butters but it's the closest thing I can find.

For the baking, do I want a hotter oven? Say 400+ rather than 350?

Thanks to everyone for all their feedback and help!

Nick was on a PBS cooking show and demonstrated the croissants right after this book was published. He also did a sweet pie pastry which I also use, it contains an egg. I like it because it is virtually foolproof.

I freeze my butter and grate it onto the dough using the large holes on a grater.

When I take the dough out of the fridge I beat it with a rolling pin, first one direction then another until it is flattened about 1/3 of the thickness. For some reason this causes it to relax a bit and makes it easier to roll. The pin I have is actually a piece of a maple hand rail and is heavier than most pins and slightly larger in diameter. I bought it at a hardwood place and a bit of sandpaper was all I needed to clean up the ends.

Nick's recipe calls for baking at 375 and I have had good results with that. Be sure that your oven is right on, if you don't have an oven thermometer get one.

[Bernaise]

Hey Plunk!
I think one serious problem is the butter. As you may know the dairy farmers have a protected monopoly on butter production so you can't get butter in Canada above about 32-34% butterfat. You can only import french butter through USA - and Canada customs is not always helpful (I consider this a winter proposition!) This is not "fat" enough and may expain why you are experiencing cracking when you pull your dough out of the fridge - too much water in the butter.
Lots of economy bakers use high ratio fat but it's not butter.
Often with pastry/bread there is a temptation to add more water because the dough seems too stiff to work. I have learned to allow the dough the time it often needs to allow the water to penetrate the gluten -gluten can sometimes seize a little and resist but not usually for long. I hop this helps a little....if I think of anything else I'll write again.

[Rachel Perlow]

What about clarifying the butter to increase the fat content of what you're using for croissants? You could even chill it in a pan of the shape needed for wrapping in the dough.

[Lesley C]

We have a spectacular croissant maker and baker, James MacGuire, holding court over at the Q&A this week. MacGuire makes some of the best croissants I have ever tasted (and I have eaten tons of croissants). You might want to ask your question again over on the Q&A thread. I'm sure he'll share some secrets we can all benefit from.

[andiesenji]

I have a friend in St. Catherines, Ontario, who does a lot of baking.
I asked her and she said that the only butters she will use in baking are Lactantia, made in Quebec and Sealtest.
I will not repeat what she said about the others..........
The first has three types, Sweet, Salted and Cultured, she prefers the latter.

Sealtest is just sweet and salted.

She says that sometimes Costco carries the Lactantia brand and when it is in the store she stocks up and freezes it.

[Brad S]

Remember your dealing with a "Rolled in dough" you don't want to develop gluten as they will make the dough tough. Overworking the dough is a culprit for sure. Be sure to use unsalted butter because of flavor, but it stays cooler longer, Salted butter has more moisture. Your Detrempe and butter should always be cold and of similar textures.

[plunk]

Hi Bernaise!
Yes, I recently learned, after a very futile search, that butter cannot be imported into Canada! Have you been able to successfully import butter from the US? I'm thinking the risk of spoilage is too high for me, but I'm definitely going to bring a cooler with me on my next road trip down there. (Why oh why didn't I think of this when I went down a few months ago..)

I think for my next attempt, I'm going to focus on not overworking the dough and trying to keep the dough and butter of similar texture, and to use a cooled marble board. It seems like the too-hard butter, the overly elastic dough and the warm ambient temperature caused most of my problems.

Andiesenji, Lactantia cultured is what I use for all my baking and the type I used for the croissants. It's pretty easy to find over here in BC, at least in Vancouver. It's good to know that your baker friend approves of it.

For those of us frusterated by our butter up here in the north, here's an interesting article:

http://www.magma.ca/...ationalpost.htm

Edited by plunk, 31 May 2004 - 09:36 PM.

[mktye]

Last weekend I attempted to make homemade croissants and the recipe I used was from Baking With Julia.  I found that the amount of liquid called for in the dough portion wasn't enough to moisten all of the flour so I had to add more.

I've used this recipe and had the same problem, so it is not just you!

If it helps... I've had the best luck if I make the dough the consistency of Playdough (the purchased type, not homemade). But I totally agree with mkFradin -- do whatever works for you.

Good luck with your next attempt!

[hannahmontana]

Well this is the first time I've written in egullet. I'm a little intimidated by everyone's skill level so please be patient. I'm trying to get croissants down. I've tried a few recipes, it seems that the traditional amount of butter rolled in is 28% of the detrempe. So far my croissants are flaky and tasty but distinct layers are lacking. When I try to peel my croissant apart ( my preferred way of eating them!) I don't get the really thin layers, instead they seperate where I rolled them up.
Also most recipes say to cut the triangles and then stretch the triangle out further, why is this.
I really want to understand the science of a really good croissant as well as shaping techniques and recipes. Speaking of which has anyone tried the whole wheat croissant from the Pie and Pastry Bible, are they heavy?
Looking for flaky perfection,
Hannah

[Apicio]

I hope you are not trying to duplicate at home the commercially baked croissants commonly available in stores. These croissants use a commercial fold-in fat that resembles ghastly tallow in its waxy pliability. Gives you the discreet flakes but I suspect not very good for the health at all. Your home baked croissants did not have this distinct flakes because your fold-in butter blended with the dough. Maintaining your fold-in butter at 60 degrees F will ensure that it is soft enough to roll in between the layers of dough but not too soft to blend into them. Chilling your dough at regular intervals will maintain this ideal temperature and also help it relax which makes for easier rolling. It will also make your rolling easier if you use special high fat butter such as Plugras. Try masterering your favorite regular croissant first before trying the elaborate variations such as danish pastry and whole-wheat ones.