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Sous Vide: Recipes, Techniques & Equipment (Part 9)

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#331 cookalong

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 12:07 PM

Yes, it might very well be proteins on the surface, kind of like the white goo you can get when you cook un-salted salmon. I could scrape most of it away, but the surface was still a lot darker than the meat inside (which was a bit pink).

 

The reason for blanching the bags was to kill surface bacteria, from what I know it can produce off-flavours in beef.

 

Yeah, I shredded it while it was still hot (and cooked). It tasted fine by the way, very happy with the texture.


Edited by cookalong, 13 January 2014 - 12:11 PM.


#332 rotuts

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 12:14 PM

ive never had off flavors during SV.  mushy-ness:  yes, early on during my studies.  no longer. check the Bladwin tables re time to pasteurize w SV

 

i no long get mushy-ness esp w chuck is that I SV single mussle groups when I can.  some muscles esp. w chuck dont need as long as what's right up next to them.


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#333 cookalong

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 12:18 PM

I haven't noticed any off flavours neither, just seems to be good practise to briefly dunk the bags in boiling water, from what I've read on this forum.

The meat itself was fine, it just looked funny on the surface. And it must definitely be pasteurized after 48 hours.



#334 cookalong

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 02:02 PM

Btw, anyone who can share any light on the plastic exfoliating? The surface of the bags felt rough after 48 hours at 65 C. I briefly put the bags on the counter and when I removed them, I could see lots of tiny pieces of plastic on the counter, very small and very thin. The bags are of the brand Orved, they are made for sous vide, and should be okay to use for temperatures up to 115 C.



#335 KennethT

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 02:03 PM

I've noticed the brown goo on the outside of long cooked meats as well. To me, it looks like coagulated protein - like if you took meat drippings and brought it to a boil - you'd see the same stuff. Definitely not harmful, and, as Nickrey pointed out a long time ago, you can fry in a little oil and it turns into fond which you can deglaze and make a nice pan sauce from.

#336 rotuts

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 02:12 PM

Cookalong:

 

Id look for another source for bags.

 

cut your losses and write them off.


Edited by rotuts, 13 January 2014 - 02:12 PM.


#337 cookalong

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 02:17 PM

I've noticed the brown goo on the outside of long cooked meats as well. To me, it looks like coagulated protein - like if you took meat drippings and brought it to a boil - you'd see the same stuff. Definitely not harmful, and, as Nickrey pointed out a long time ago, you can fry in a little oil and it turns into fond which you can deglaze and make a nice pan sauce from.

I've tried to make stock from the liquid from bags, but when I reduce it, it doesn't taste good, almost a bit gamey.

 

Cookalong:

 

Id look for another source for bags.

 

cut your losses and write them off.

Yeah, I'm gonna find new bags. You think my shredded beef is okay though? I felt the inside of the bags and they were smooth. Made them to bring to work for lunch, so I really don't want to throw away the meat if I don't have to.



#338 Honkman

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 05:00 PM

Starting to explore sous vide cooking and trying to figure out the "best" times for different cuts (and even though there are the Baldwin or Modernist tables and a lot of internet information there are also a lot of contradictory information).

I can get at a close by asian market two bottom round steaks from Snake River Farms which i would like to cook sous vide to have as an end result very tender medium-rare steak. The temperature will be 133-134F but I am not sure about the length of the cooking time. I have read anywhere from 10-72 hours. Any suggestions, as I want  very tender but also not mushy meat ?



#339 Okanagancook

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 05:19 PM

Depends on the thickness of the steak as well as time/temp. I just used D. Baldwin's recipe for chuck/round steak: 31 mm thick chuck steaks cooked at 133F for 24 hours. They were medium rare but not super, super tender. They had a nice chew to them but in a good way. They could have stayed in the bath for another 24 hours for fork tender meat but we don't like that kind of tenderness.

Cooked Meat.JPG

#340 nickrey

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 05:58 PM

Unfortunately cooking also depends not only on the cut of meat but also on the animal that it came from. Combine this with personal preferences and it is impossible to suggest a time that would suit your own tastes. My bet is this is why you are finding apparently contradictory information.

 

I'd recommend getting your meat from a single source that has consistent suppliers and experimenting with different times to find the band that you prefer.


Edited by nickrey, 27 January 2014 - 05:59 PM.

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#341 rotuts

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 05:41 AM

Honkman

 

another thing that is very important:  each time you SV, you are conducting a personal experiment.

 

as with all experimental work, keep careful and complete track of what you do:

 

MeatSource, cut, cost, date, SV time and temp. Mark the SV bags w a sharpie: cut, time, temp, date. ( at min )

 

easy to do.   when you have your own Personal Eureka moment, you can look back at your data

 

and reproduce that same experience.

 

some day you will have a freezer full of the stuff.

 

Red 'engineering' lined notebooks are available and Stapes and other places.

 

Red is always best.

 

SV book.jpg

 

sorry, I cant show you the contents of the above.

 

Kitchen Secrets.


Edited by rotuts, 28 January 2014 - 05:43 AM.

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#342 gfweb

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 08:40 AM

Red or black. I lean toward black.

#343 rotuts

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 09:14 AM

big mistake.

 

although I should have push the color correction button to make it closer to the Real Red It Is

 

Orange Red, not so effective.



#344 haresfur

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 06:59 PM

Be sure to have a trusted associate witness and sign each page in case someone else tries to patent your discovery.

 

If I were to actually take this advice I'd use separate pages for different types of meat to make comparisons easier. 


It's almost never bad to feed someone.

#345 Honkman

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 11:02 PM

Be sure to have a trusted associate witness and sign each page in case someone else tries to patent your discovery.
 
If I were to actually take this advice I'd use separate pages for different types of meat to make comparisons easier.


For legal reason it would actually be better if somebody not directly associated with your project is witnessing and countersigning your single experiments

#346 michoutim

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 05:41 PM

WOw ! Lucky you ! You will have terrific fun ! I have also tried a breast of chicken, traditionally dry, coated with my home made thai curry paste, it was divine. I served it with spaghettis of zucchinis...,

#347 johnelle

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 12:30 AM

To follow-up on the smoking before sous vide (sub)thread.  Sunday I prepared two 1-inch thick center cut pork chops by smoking them in the smoker at 225F for approximately 1.5 hours with just a sprinkle of pepper, onion powder, garlic salt.  Sealed in bags with some Lingonberry jam that I had in the pantry.  Cooked for 6-7 hours in Anova.  I threw away the drippings from the bag because they had a very strong smoke smell.  Quick pan sear and then sauced with some Lingonberry & Cognac heated in a saucepan.

 
Impressions.  Jam in the bag was probably a mistake.  It didn't impart much flavor and was overwhelmed by the smoke flavor in the juices.  In spite of the strong smell of smoke in the juices the meat actually only had a light smokey flavor.   The meat was pretty thick so 1-1/2 hours gave it a just a touch of smoke flavor.  Not sure I would do the fruit sauce / smoke combination again but it wasn't bad.  The pork was super tender.
 
One unexpected learning.  Had a slight leak in the bag which I detected pretty early because you could see the cloudy water in the cambro and when you were close to the unit you could smell the smoke flavor wafting from the hole in the lid.  This is one advantage of using a transparent tub--you can spot issues before too much damage is done.  Not sure if the little extra water in the bag contributed to the strong smokey smell of the juices in the bag but they didn't seem to impact the taste of the meat much.


#348 Shalmanese

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 01:19 PM

 

To follow-up on the smoking before sous vide (sub)thread.  Sunday I prepared two 1-inch thick center cut pork chops by smoking them in the smoker at 225F for approximately 1.5 hours with just a sprinkle of pepper, onion powder, garlic salt.  Sealed in bags with some Lingonberry jam that I had in the pantry.  Cooked for 6-7 hours in Anova.  I threw away the drippings from the bag because they had a very strong smoke smell.  Quick pan sear and then sauced with some Lingonberry & Cognac heated in a saucepan.

 
Impressions.  Jam in the bag was probably a mistake.  It didn't impart much flavor and was overwhelmed by the smoke flavor in the juices.  In spite of the strong smell of smoke in the juices the meat actually only had a light smokey flavor.   The meat was pretty thick so 1-1/2 hours gave it a just a touch of smoke flavor.  Not sure I would do the fruit sauce / smoke combination again but it wasn't bad.  The pork was super tender.
 
One unexpected learning.  Had a slight leak in the bag which I detected pretty early because you could see the cloudy water in the cambro and when you were close to the unit you could smell the smoke flavor wafting from the hole in the lid.  This is one advantage of using a transparent tub--you can spot issues before too much damage is done.  Not sure if the little extra water in the bag contributed to the strong smokey smell of the juices in the bag but they didn't seem to impact the taste of the meat much.

 

 

 

Smoke molecules are small enough that they can move through the lining of a plastic bag. This is why people commonly advocate smoking after SV.


PS: I am a guy.

#349 rotuts

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 10:16 AM

Sirloin Tips were on sale at a local market ( chain ) so I decided to ask if they would cut the 'whole' tip into one piece of meat for

 

me at the sale price.  The manager said sure, and assigned a butcher already 'cutting' the job.  Anthony his name is. My new

 

Personal Butcher. we got to talking as he was trimming and I promised him a 'bag' when done.  Always worth chatting w your 

 

butcher.

 

Tips.jpg

 

the meat was not discolored, tricky pic thats all.  I wanted a single piece of meat so I could then

 

portion them into individual bags cutting with the grain so the final 'tranche' would cut across the grain

 

either as a 'steak' or sliced thin for sandwiches. I aged the meat for a week in a very cold refrigerator.

 

I ended up w about 20 bags of around 8 oz each.  My new Personal Butcher, Anthony from above

 

did such and outstanding 'trim' that I had little to do but cut each 3 lbs piece in 5 or so sections.

 

So its true:  Chat with and get to know your butcher.

 

Iced SV.jpg

 

its been very cold here w fresh 1 foot of snow:  makes SV chill easy.

 

here are the tips after 6 hours at 130 in the Coleman Cooler:

 

Tips Cut.jpg

 

on the plate w baked potatoes and some 'jus' :

 

Tips Pots.jpg

 

I was a bit disappointed in the tenderness, not the doneness or flavor.  Granted I only sampled one

 

packet.  so I decided to pop the whole lot back in the SV Cooler for another 2 - 3 hours at 130.

 

I have no idea if you can 're-SV' after a chill ( some were frozen ) and expect a bit more tenderness.

 

but Ive made some notes on this and will let you know if this mattered in this case.

 

Guess what's for dinner tonight?  the above w the additional time.  Sometimes Im a bit weak on the green 

 

veg.  those green onions counted, right?  maybe some peas  ( delicious canned baby ones ) this time.


Edited by rotuts, 09 February 2014 - 10:25 AM.

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#350 rotuts

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 02:52 PM

well I think this worked out well

 

I added about 3 hours after both the frozen and deeply chilled got to close to 130.1

 

it was very close to what ive been looking for, tender, still 'rare-ish' and juicy.

 

the next time I do this, and it will be a good long while as I now have 11 lbs of great stuff in the freezer ..

 

Ill just do it 10 - 12 based on my schedule.

 

so  ...  you can re-SV  at least on the lower temps.


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#351 Kerry Beal

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 02:55 PM

I've re sous vided lamb at higher temperatures when it wasn't tender enough.



#352 rotuts

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 04:39 PM

interesting point.   but Ive learned that you might consider more time at the initial tempt.

 

from now on, an it will be quite some time, after all, 11 lbs of Beouf will last me for quite some time

 

from now on for me, Tips will be at 130 for 10 - 12.

 

learn something every day ....



#353 PedroG

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Posted 28 March 2014 - 06:07 PM

WikiGullet

 

WikiGullet has been aroused from hibernation.

In the Sous Vide Page the section "Cooking Eggs" has been expanded and a section "The structure and denaturation of Proteins" has been added.

The sections "Water baths and PID tuning" and "Cooking vegetables and fruits" need more content -> please help! If you are not very familiar with editing source code, you can play in the "Sous Vide Sandbox".

 

Thanks to all contributors!

Pedro


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#354 JoNorvelleWalker

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 12:19 AM

A Tale of Two Steaks

 

Last week I brought home a small boneless rib steak of organic Australian beef, of a brand with which I am familiar.  What we in this part of the world might call a club steak.  I cut the raw steak into two portions, being careful to have some of each muscle group in each half.

 

I seasoned with salt and garlic powder, vacuum sealed each half, and cooked both together in the same bath for the same time and temperature.

 

One bag I threw into an ice bath and then stored in the bottom of the refrigerator.  The other I opened and threw into a hot pan with smoking butter to brown.  This steak was dry, powdery, quite possibly the worst steak I have ever had.  I can't even say it was tough -- that might have been an improvement.

 

Tonight I had the half that had been sitting in the refrigerator, finished the same way:  thrown into a hot pan of smoking butter.  Was this the best steak I have ever had?  No, perhaps not, but it was very good.  Way better than my average.



#355 EnriqueB

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 04:02 AM

A Tale of Two Steaks

 

Last week I brought home a small boneless rib steak of organic Australian beef, of a brand with which I am familiar.  What we in this part of the world might call a club steak.  I cut the raw steak into two portions, being careful to have some of each muscle group in each half.

 

I seasoned with salt and garlic powder, vacuum sealed each half, and cooked both together in the same bath for the same time and temperature.

 

One bag I threw into an ice bath and then stored in the bottom of the refrigerator.  The other I opened and threw into a hot pan with smoking butter to brown.  This steak was dry, powdery, quite possibly the worst steak I have ever had.  I can't even say it was tough -- that might have been an improvement.

 

Tonight I had the half that had been sitting in the refrigerator, finished the same way:  thrown into a hot pan of smoking butter.  Was this the best steak I have ever had?  No, perhaps not, but it was very good.  Way better than my average.

 

Did you reheat the second steak before searing? If not, and the pan times were similar, the different initial steak temperature in the pan may explain it.

 

On the other hand, what was the sous-vide profile (time & temperature)?


Edited by EnriqueB, 04 April 2014 - 04:03 AM.


#356 JoNorvelleWalker

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 09:13 AM

The good steak was at refrigerator temperature before searing.  And, yes, I think the first steak got over cooked by searing but the effect was far worse than a traditional over cooked piece of beef.  I should note both steaks were rather thin, particularly after being squished in the vacuum sealer.

 

The bath was 57 deg C.  Time was 3.5 hours.



#357 rotuts

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 09:18 AM

this ref. was posted by Weedy in the chanber vac thread

 

give it a look re very high vac's and the effect that might have.

 

http://www.cookingis...e-of-your-meat/



#358 KennethT

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 09:32 AM

I'm not familiar with the Club cut, but I assume it's supposed to be a tender cut if it comes from a rib steak. If that is the case, I think 3.5 hours is way too long. The longer it sits at temp, more and more juices get squeezed out. Especially with beef, which is typically eaten rare or med. rare, really, I find the best results using a time that would just bring it to temp, which is dependent on thickness - but depending on what you're calling "rather thin" - that could be 30 min? Do you have eGullet member Vengroff's Sous Vide Dash app? It's very useful for figuring timing for thin cuts - but, unfortunately you need an Apple device - I don't think they ever came out with an Android version.

In any case, I think Enrique's explanation of why the two came out differently makes sense. I find searing in a hot pan tends to raise the temp of thin cuts too much to do just after removing from the bath. If I do this, I usually set my bath temp a few degrees lower, or I'll do a 5 min. dunk in ice water to chill the surface a bit before searing. I find the torch the easiest way to do a thin piece - it doesn't require pre-chilling or other playing around.

#359 JoNorvelleWalker

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 09:45 AM

this ref. was posted by Weedy in the chanber vac thread

 

give it a look re very high vac's and the effect that might have.

 

http://www.cookingis...e-of-your-meat/

 

Thanks for that link.  Very interesting!  I'll try lower pressure next time.



#360 JoNorvelleWalker

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 09:55 AM

I'm not familiar with the Club cut, but I assume it's supposed to be a tender cut if it comes from a rib steak. If that is the case, I think 3.5 hours is way too long. The longer it sits at temp, more and more juices get squeezed out. Especially with beef, which is typically eaten rare or med. rare, really, I find the best results using a time that would just bring it to temp, which is dependent on thickness - but depending on what you're calling "rather thin" - that could be 30 min? Do you have eGullet member Vengroff's Sous Vide Dash app? It's very useful for figuring timing for thin cuts - but, unfortunately you need an Apple device - I don't think they ever came out with an Android version.

In any case, I think Enrique's explanation of why the two came out differently makes sense. I find searing in a hot pan tends to raise the temp of thin cuts too much to do just after removing from the bath. If I do this, I usually set my bath temp a few degrees lower, or I'll do a 5 min. dunk in ice water to chill the surface a bit before searing. I find the torch the easiest way to do a thin piece - it doesn't require pre-chilling or other playing around.

 

I had intended to cook two hours, not three and a half, and I should have chosen a lower bath temperature to account for searing.  My intuition tells me 5 minutes in an ice bath would not help much.  I could be wrong.

 

From the link that rotuts posted I see Dave Arnold does ribeye at 55.5 deg C with oil.

 

My phone was made by Western Electric in the 1970's and I don't know if they have come out with apps for it.


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