419 replies to this topic

[Smithy]

Double-Cooked Red Chicken Marrakech-Style, from Paula Wolfert's The Slow Mediterranean Kitchen: Recipes for the Passionate Cook.

Is there anyway you could share that recipe with us? I would be very interested in trying it! Your pictures and description of the dish are making my mouth water...

I'm so glad you like the writeup! Since I began to post on eGullet I've discovered that it's a lot harder to make those photos come out than it appears.

As for the recipe: I'd post a link if I knew of one, but this particular recipe may not be online. Maybe, if we asked politely, and even begged a little, the author would be willing to post it. Since she's actively participating in this thread, I'd rather she summarize the ingredients, proportions, and so on to the extent she's willing.

[Smithy]

Smithy, that is a terrific report. Looks like it tastes good, too. You can't have too much paprika.

I am not particularly surprised at the differences in the amount of liquid between the two pots. The porous clay pots will lose water through the sides of the pot as well as from the top surface. I am thinking that that process is part of the charm of cooking in these clay pots. You get a more efficient concentration (loss of water) of the sauce in the clay.

That is a really cool clay pot!

That's a good point about the sauce. When I finally got it boiled down in the borma there was not very much left, but it was considerably thicker than in the LC. It almost looked like a starch had been added and not mixed in properly.

I wonder, though, if the liquid is really going all the way through the sides. I was envisioning it being absorbed into the pot and then doing a slow back-and-forth exchange with the free sauce at the interface, with some liquid absorbed in the clay and unavailable for serving. I admit that might not account for nearly a 50% loss (somewhat less since the chicken still had fat to give up under the broiler). There's no noticeable moisture or color change on the outside the way you have with a clay water holder or those clay wine bottle coolers that were so popular back in the 70's. Is that because the heat from below (and with the wok ring, the sides as well) evaporates the water so quickly that it keeps the pot sides cool without being detectable on the outside of the pot?

This particular pot, unlike some of its cousins in this house, has been sitting as a decoration, holding pine cones and interesting Southern California tree pods, until now. I thank Wolfert for getting me going on using it as it was intended.

[Wolfert]

This particular pot, unlike some of its cousins in this house, has been sitting as a decoration, holding pine cones and interesting Southern California tree pods, until now. I thank Wolfert for getting me going on using it as it was intended.

Smithy, that was a wonderful report. Thanks so much. The photos look good, too.

You mentioned (see your quote) the pot has been sitting around holding pinecones. So it hasn't been used in a long time. Or ever? Do you remember whether you were supposed to soak it before curing back when you bought it?

I'm only guessing but the huge evaporation of liquid might have happened due to the super dry walls of the pot.

On the other hand, 1 cup of liquid for a chicken or its equal in weight in thighs doesn't need more than l cup. Tagines like braises do better with less liquid.

Is there anyway you could share that recipe with us? I would be very interested in trying it! Your pictures and description of the dish are making my mouth water...

I'm sorry, I don't have the time to type in the recipe today. Saturdays are difficult around here.If anyone who has the book and feels up to the challenge, you have my permission. If not, I'll type it up tomorrow morning and then if you are all still interested we can discuss the claypot versus the LC.

I'm very interested.

If the chicken came out right with the claypot, it would have been meltingly soft and juicy. Followed by broiling, you should have a crisp skin just barely holding the chicken flesh in place.

Fifi: We need your help.

Thanks for providing the name of the pot. I am beginning to set up a grid with names of pots, curing,et.

I love your pot! It is beautiful. How high are the walls versus the diameter? I have some similar ones used in the eastern mediterranean to make moussake, and Turkish guvec (meat and vegetable stews). Guvec uses only the liquid the meat and vegetables throw off during the cooking to keep everything juicy.

t.

[andiesenji]

I mentioned this subject to a friend who is from France.
She and her husband have lived here for many years but still return home every couple of years. They are not from Paris but manage to spend a couple of days shopping there every visit.

She gave me this web address for a place in Paris that often has unusual cooking vessels from North Africa.
She doesn't know if they will ship to the U.S. but said they might have some suggestions.
I don't speak French so it wouldn't be much use for me to call, but I thought someone might be interested.
Paris cafe.

[fifi]

Here is what is going on with the pot . . .

If Smithy's pot had not been soaked with water, it quite possibly "shlurped up" a bit of the water in the beginning. (shlurped up = highly technical term) Dry clay in contact with water is going to try to reach an equilibrium of sorts. In contact with a permeable barrier, water wants to go where it isn't. (If that doesn't fry your brain, you aren't paying attention. )

But even if the pot had been soaked, water loss through the walls is inevitable. Smithy, your instincts are right on. The heat from the outside of the pot is evaporating the water off as it migrates. In fact there are forces at work here that are actually "pulling" the water through the walls. (From a scientific standpoint that is a poor analogy but is the best way I know to describe it.)

Back to your observations about water jars . . . In low humidities, the outside of the jar doesn't usually look wet, unless the pottery is very porous to the point that there are actual tiny holes. That is a different process altogether. Remember that you don't have to be at boiling temperature to get evaporation. Heat just speeds it up. As a case in point, when I cured my Black Chamba I reported on this phenomenon here. (Scroll up for the curing process which is just water in the oven.) The pots were noticeably heavier. As they sat out on the table by an open window (It was a rare day.) they were noticeably cold to the touch even in our high humidities. The outside didn't feel wet at all but the temperature is a sure indicator that evaporation is going on. The wet spot on the table is from condensation of that water vapor being trapped between the bottom of the pot and the table surface, aided and abetted by the low temperature of the pot.

Now I am going waaaay out on a limb here since I have never cooked in a tagine. (Perhaps Paula can correct me if I am off base because I am operating on a "thought experiment" here, more commonly called a head game.) I am thinking that the conical or domed top of the tagine is actually acting as what we could call a condensor in the chemistry lab or chemical plant. You are providing a relatively cool surface for vapors to condense. The design of the tagine, the "high hat" if you will, gets that surface away from the heat so that it can remain cooler. In the case of unglazed clay, the cooling effect can be enhanced by the evaporation of water from the outside surface as described above. Even if the lid isn't presoaked in water, water vapor will move through it just as described and contribute to the temperature control. What I don't know is if the unglazed clay lids are typically soaked in water. I am thinking that it might not be a bad idea to soak them.

In summary, the differences you are seeing is how water is galloping around within the food, the pot and the various surfaces it comes in contact with. The more I think about it, the more I appreciate the genius of the design of a tagine. (My Rifi has been ordered. )

[peanutgirl]

(My Rifi has been ordered.  )

My Rifi should arrive on Wednesday !

[slkinsey]

(My Rifi has been ordered.  )

My Rifi should arrive on Wednesday !

Sigh... I ordered a Souss tagine, but according to the UPS tracking information, it was shipped to Davenport, Iowa. Working out how to get that fixed.

[Bond Girl]

I'm with Sam here. Ordered a Souss...probably get here much later than it says on the UPS tracking info.

[fifi]

*Press Release - URGENT! Immediate broadcast requested.*

"It has come to our attention that there has been a run on tagines. The tagine market is in a shambles and tagine futures are soaring basis a deepseated fear in the marketplace that supply will not keep up with demand. A congressional committee in the US has been convened to investigate. Senator Honksalot has stated, 'We will get to the bottom of this deplorable situation. Our investigators are looking into a secret Society that operates on the internet.' Stay tuned to your local news sources for updates on this fast breaking news."

[Smithy]

*Press Release - URGENT! Immediate broadcast requested.*

"It has come to our attention that there has been a run on tagines. The tagine market is in a shambles and tagine futures are soaring basis a deepseated fear in the marketplace that supply will not keep up with demand. A congressional committee in the US has been convened to investigate. Senator Honksalot has stated, 'We will get to the bottom of this deplorable situation. Our investigators are looking into a secret Society that operates on the internet.' Stay tuned to your local news sources for updates on this fast breaking news."

But really...I MUST not visit that site....tax time...tax time... ...although, they really aren't very expensive...

[Smithy]

This particular pot, unlike some of its cousins in this house, has been sitting as a decoration, holding pine cones and interesting Southern California tree pods, until now. I thank Wolfert for getting me going on using it as it was intended.

You mentioned (see your quote) the pot has been sitting around holding pinecones. So it hasn't been used in a long time. Or ever? Do you remember whether you were supposed to soak it before curing back when you bought it?

I'm only guessing but the huge evaporation of liquid might have happened due to the super dry walls of the pot.

On the other hand, 1 cup of liquid for a chicken or its equal in weight in thighs doesn't need more than l cup. Tagines like braises do better with less liquid.
<snippo>

If the chicken came out right with the claypot, it would have been meltingly soft and juicy. Followed by broiling, you should have a crisp skin just barely holding the chicken flesh in place.

Fifi: We need your help.

Thanks for providing the name of the pot. I am beginning to set up a grid with names of pots, curing,et.

I love your pot! It is beautiful. How high are the walls versus the diameter? I have some similar ones used in the eastern mediterranean to make moussake, and Turkish guvec (meat and vegetable stews). Guvec uses only the liquid the meat and vegetables throw off during the cooking to keep everything juicy.

t.

I really meant that I'd never used this pot for cooking before. It's a bit embarrassing to admit that, because we've had it for years, but all we ever saw this particular pot style used for was to serve potatoes in tomato sauce. I used the Egyptian tagine (which appeared in the braising experiments) and smaller bowls for moussaka, and am only now discovering the wonders of braising in general and cooking tagines in clay in particular. I finally got around to curing this pot last weekend, in order to try cooking tagines in it.

The original instructions did not include soaking the pottery, and I suspect these pots would explode like your Turkish pots did if they were soaked and then coated, but I don't know. What I was shown was to wash the pottery with hot water and scrub pad (can't remember about detergent) to get the loose clay dust off, and let the pot air dry thoroughly. (Edited to add: air drying can be done in low-temperature oven, if desired.) Then coat it inside and out with molasses, set in the oven (upside down over foil works well), turn the temperature up to medium heat, and cook until done. It takes a few hours. You can tell it's done because the appearance of the molasses changes. It kind of beads up on the pot and forms a patchy crust. After the pot is cool you have to give it a quick wipe to get the loose molasses crust off; otherwise you get it all over everything you set it on.

I've never had these pots (used or unused) leave water residue on furniture. That may be because I re-dry them after use. I learned the hard way that if they weren't quite dry they'd sprout a healthy mold colony (love that molasses) and I'd have to start all over. I don't know what Sabra does about that in Luxor, but I have taken to putting the pots in the oven on warm for a while after I've used and cleaned them.

Caution on my terminology! I call this pot a "borma" (plural "boraam") but I think that's just a generic term for a clay pot. The Egyptians are quite specific about the tagine I used in the braising thread - that is a "tagine", pronounced more or less "DA-jin" and quite unlike the Moroccan cone-topped tagine. If there is a similar term reserved for this size and shape of bowl, I don't know what it is. I may be able to find out. Anyway, it's fun to say "borma", but keep in mind my extremely limited language skills.

This pot's interior is slightly over 9" diameter at the rim - anywhere from 9-1/4" to 9-3/8" inside diameter at the top. The interior bottom where it more or less flattens out is roughly 7" diameter. It's about 2-5/8" deep. The walls of the rim are 1/2" thick except where there are two points for stabilizing it, at 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock, and two sturdy loops for hanging, at 12 o'clock and 6 o'clock. (How much longer, in this digital age, will we be able to use those expressions?) I'll try to post a photo tomorrow of what I'm talking about. The exterior is pretty round, even on the bottom, so it rocks slightly without a flame tamer, wok ring, or similar slightly larger circular stand.

On the other hand, 1 cup of liquid for a chicken or its equal in weight in thighs doesn't need more than l cup. Tagines like braises do better with less liquid.

Is there anyway you could share that recipe with us? I would be very interested in trying it! Your pictures and description of the dish are making my mouth water...

I'm sorry, I don't have the time to type in the recipe today. Saturdays are difficult around here.If anyone who has the book and feels up to the challenge, you have my permission. If not, I'll type it up tomorrow morning and then if you are all still interested we can discuss the claypot versus the LC.

I'm very interested.

If the chicken came out right with the claypot, it would have been meltingly soft and juicy. Followed by broiling, you should have a crisp skin just barely holding the chicken flesh in place.

Thanks for those extra insights. I followed your recipe down to the quantities, but did wonder whether there's really some rule of thumb for tagines like braises - liquid should only be halfway up the meat, or some such.

The chicken was quite tender and fell apart with the fork.

I'm not only interested in pursuing the LC vs. clay more, I'm wondering about glazed ceramic vs. unglazed clay. I just might risk a casserole dish atop the stove on that experiment.

Edited as noted above.

Edited by Smithy, 20 March 2005 - 01:19 PM.

[Smithy]

Here is what is going on with the pot . . .

If Smithy's pot had not been soaked with water, it quite possibly "shlurped up" a bit of the water in the beginning. (shlurped up = highly technical term) Dry clay in contact with water is going to try to reach an equilibrium of sorts. In contact with a permeable barrier, water wants to go where it isn't. (If that doesn't fry your brain, you aren't paying attention. )

But even if the pot had been soaked, water loss through the walls is inevitable. Smithy, your instincts are right on. The heat from the outside of the pot is evaporating the water off as it migrates. In fact there are forces at work here that are actually "pulling" the water through the walls. (From a scientific standpoint that is a poor analogy but is the best way I know to describe it.)

That makes sense, even if it makes my head hurt. Actually, it makes water sound like a cat: wants to go where it isn't. If I think about it long enough, I may actually come up with the hydraulic effect word you're looking for. Hmm.

Now I am going waaaay out on a limb here since I have never cooked in a tagine. (Perhaps Paula can correct me if I am off base because I am operating on a "thought experiment" here, more commonly called a head game.)  I am thinking that the conical or domed top of the tagine is actually acting as what we could call a condensor in the chemistry lab or chemical plant. You are providing a relatively cool surface for vapors to condense. The design of the tagine, the "high hat" if you will, gets that surface away from the heat so that it can remain cooler. In the case of unglazed clay, the cooling effect can be enhanced by the evaporation of water from the outside surface as described above. Even if the lid isn't presoaked in water, water vapor will move through it just as described and contribute to the temperature control. What I don't know is if the unglazed clay lids are typically soaked in water. I am thinking that it might not be a bad idea to soak them. 

In summary, the differences you are seeing is how water is galloping around within the food, the pot and the various surfaces it comes in contact with. The more I think about it, the more I appreciate the genius of the design of a tagine. (My Rifi has been ordered.  )

Paula's earlier description made me think of the cone as a cooling tower. Sounds like you're right on, Madam Materials Scientist. And I love the description of water galloping around!

[bleudauvergne]

I am so enjoying this topic, it's really getting me in the mood to prepare a tagine.

[Wolfert]

Sackville girl: Thanks for sharing the recipe as you saw it prepared in the Zagora style. Having been there for such a short time I never really got a chance to learn any of th local dishes. I must try your recipe.
Perhaps you didn't know that the tagine you posted is produced on the western coast of Morocco in the town of Sale. The term tagine slaoui means a tagine from Sale. By the way, I went to your site of recipes. What a huge and interesting collection! You should publish a book. The variety is so damm interesting.

Fifi and Nancy: I need to re-read and soak up the incredible outpouring of wisdom the two of you have put forth. Thank you for taking the time to put down all your insights.

The braised and browned chicken dish called djej mhammer (meaning reddish due to the huge amount of paprika) that you prepared in two pots is what I want to write about right now.

Nancy, I have a comparison that is a clear match to your experience...well almost. The span is 30 years between the first time I made the recipe and the last time about 4 years ago. This wouldn't mean anything but I just happen to have the two recipes in front of me, side by side..

In my first book, from now on to be referred to as CFM (couscous and other good food from morocco), I printed almost the same recipe for djej mhammer using two chickens as you tested the other day. It is a classic dish from Rabat.
I am sure I cooked it in a tagine at that time because I lived in Morocco and I didn't have a heavy casserole made of enameled cast iron. I had copper caseroles and earthenware tagines, but not expensive French cookware..
To help make the book accessible, my mother and best girl friend, both living in the states spot tested a lot of the recipes using whatever pots they had to make sure the recipes worked.


,.
In the slow Med published 2 years ago, I suggested cooking the two chickens in an LC. I called for the same amount of spices and herbs as in the traditional recipe.
I upped the garlic and reduced the butter (chickens in morocco are scrawny and need that extra fat to cook up juicy), and the method used for browning was broiling..

Here is the kicker: I notice there are three important changes: the water,the pot, and the browning of the chicken.

In CFM I bring 3 cups of water in a 5 1/2 quart casserole with cover to the boil , lower the heat, cover, and cook l hour . When ready to brown, I do it in a skillet and brown one chicken at a time. That is because I didn't have a broiler in Morocco.

In Slow Med I bring 1 1/2 cups of water in a large enameled cast iron pot and cover and cook the chicken for l hour. (There is no mention of a tagine as an alternative .) and I broil the chicken.
. My mother and best girl friend living in the states spot checked a lot of the recipes using whatever pots they had to make sure the recipes worked.

So which recipe, if any, do you want me to type up?
Can you see that the bourma had some insight into the dish and corrected the error?
What else can I say?

Edited by Wolfert, 20 March 2005 - 10:45 AM.

[Sackville]

Sackville girl: Thanks for sharing  the recipe as you saw it  prepared in the Zagora style. Having been there for such a short time I never really got a chance to learn any of th local dishes.  I must try your recipe.

You're very welcome. I also learned how to make couscous and some salads there and have all the directions written in my notebook but I haven't yet transcribed them. I would love to go back and just spend months learning the cuisine. Can't do that anytime soon so in the meantime I just went to Amazone and ordered two of your books

I hope you like the tagine. I'm afraid some people may think it a little bland, as it doesn't have much in the way of "exotic" seasoning that we often associate with Morocco. I think it is a fairly authentic yet basic tagine that the average person would eat on a daily basis.

[Wolfert]

Thank you for having such confidence. If you have any problems converting any of my recipes to tagines from LC, don't hesitate to ask.


For those of you who have purchased and cured your Riffian or Souss tagine and want to braise a whole chicken in it, you might be interested in trying out my new method of preparing and braising the oh-so-too tender American chickens sold in the market these days. I would love some feedback.


From The Mediterranean Claypot Kitchen :
"The chicken should emerge especially moist with an unctuous tender texture, and a special "distinctive thumb print taste" of hand-crafted food that writers now fashionably call gout de terroir -- the taste of the earth.

1 whole chicken, backbone removed

Gently pound on the chicken breast and the knees in order to flatten the whole chicken. Make a small slit on each side of the lower breast to allow the leg to move freely. Pull each leg up in order to make the yoga pose called "forward bend" or Paschimothanasanalynn . Twist each wing back up over the neck and fasten legs, wings and neck with one long bamboo skewer. This should create a 1 1/2-inch thick, round shaped chicken with maximum skin exposure.

Season as directed in the recipe. Follow the recipe, but place the chicken on top of the ingredients for the sauce. Cover and cook slowly as directed in the recipe. Midway in the cooking, turn the chicken over and continue cooking as directed in the recipe. "

Further on in the text, I give different ways to brown the top including placing the bird on a flat tray, brushing it with some of the seasoned fat and broiling at the last minute.

Edited by Wolfert, 20 March 2005 - 10:43 AM.

[andiesenji]

*Press Release - URGENT! Immediate broadcast requested.*

"It has come to our attention that there has been a run on tagines. The tagine market is in a shambles and tagine futures are soaring basis a deepseated fear in the marketplace that supply will not keep up with demand. A congressional committee in the US has been convened to investigate. Senator Honksalot has stated, 'We will get to the bottom of this deplorable situation. Our investigators are looking into a secret Society that operates on the internet.' Stay tuned to your local news sources for updates on this fast breaking news."

I just read this and suffered the coffee-spraying-through-the-nose syndrome so ofted described on various threads.
Thank goodness I have a "KeySkin" keyboard cover, otherwise my keyboard might be in sad shape at this time.
For some reason, as I was reading the above, the scene in the movie Li'l Abner where the "Senator Phogbound" (or whatever he was) is orating and is followed by the song "The Country's in the Very Best of Hands."

Sometimes accidents happen in shipping. One vendor of tagines (not tagines.com) had several boxes shipped in a container and when customs finished investigating the shipment, pulling everything out of the container, they set a couch on top of the boxes of tagines, breaking almost every one.
They have insurance (because US customs takes no responsibility for their blunder) but it means they can't fill orders for a while.

[Smithy]

I'm still pondering some of the information above. Meanwhile, here's an edge detail of my Egyptian cooking bowl to show the hanging loops and the steadying points I mentioned upthread. Meyer lemons are in the pot for size reference and color interest.


Now, I've another materials-related question to ask: I'm really interested to see what happens if I do one tagine in the Egyptian clay pot and another tagine in a glazed ceramic pot. I happen to have a ceramic casserole dish of almost the exact same dimensions as the borma.



(Yes, that's my cone and pod collection in the lima casserole.)

I suspect that the ceramic pot results will be similar to the Le Creuset in terms of liquid generated/retained but more like the clay pot in terms of browning, and as far as the overall flavor goes, who knows? My question is whether I dare try this particular ceramic pot on top of the stove, over low heat, over a flame tamer, as though it's a clay pot. It doesn't claim to be stovetop safe, but the more I think about clay pots and stove tops, the more I think about being able to boil water in a paper cup: as long as there's liquid inside, the cup doesn't burn. I think the clay won't break as long as the heat is low and there's something inside to help regulate it. What do you think? Fifi, this is especially directed at you, but any and all opinions will be welcomed right up to cooking time later this afternoon.

My alternative, by the way, is a classic Corning round casserole. I'm sure that can take the heat, but its dimensions are different.

[fifi]

Sorry andie . . . It just popped into my head and I couldn't resist.

I dimly remember that there was a shipment of some kind that was scanned with the new devices that can detect trace amounts of radiation and they detected some. It came from pottery. I wonder if that was the incident.

(Note to alarmists: This in no way means that pottery is dangerous. At a low level the earth and everything made from it is radioactive to some small extent. And you are at this very minute being bombarded by cosmic rays at a much higher rate than you would have to fear from any earthly source.)

[andiesenji]

Nothing to do with radiation in this situation. ALL shipments from middle eastern ports to the US are gone over with extra care, particularly ones containing large furinture items, rugs and various vessels that might be used to transport contraband.
They even test the packing material to make sure it wasn't soaked in a liquid containing contraband then dried so it could be rinsed out and reconstituted here.

[Smithy]

The braised and browned chicken dish called djej mhammer (meaning reddish due to the huge amount of paprika) that you prepared in  two pots is what I want to write about right now.
...
<comparison of djej mhammer as published in two Wolfert cookbooks 30 years apart>
...
Here is the kicker: I notice there are  three important changes: the  water,the pot, and the browning of the chicken.

In CFM I bring 3 cups of water in a 5 1/2 quart casserole with cover  to the boil , lower the heat, cover, and cook l hour . When ready to brown, I do it in a skillet and brown one chicken at a time. That is because I didn't have a broiler in Morocco.

In Slow Med I bring 1 1/2 cups of water in a large enameled cast iron pot   and cover and cook the chicken for l hour. (There is no mention of a tagine as an alternative .) and I broil the chicken. 
. My mother and best girl friend living in the states spot checked a lot of the recipes using whatever pots they had to make sure the recipes worked.

So which recipe, if any, do you want me to type up?
Can you see that the bourma had some insight into the dish and corrected the error?
What else can I say?

Mm. It may be that more liquid is needed in the clay pot, to allow for the loss and concentration that happens during the cooking. That will ensure plenty of sauce at the end, for those of us who are sauce junkies. Will that overcover the meat, though? Is a tagine enough like other braises that the liquid level should really be a third to a halfway up the object being cooked? Or is it more of a set quantity of liquid to ingredients?
If overcovering the meat isn't an issue, maybe a good rule of thumb is to double the liquid for a clay pot, or halve it for a metal pot, depending on which way you go. If overcovering the meat is an issue, I suppose one could live dangerously by adding water to the braising liquid as it, er, was schlurped up and out, to maintain a constant liquid level. The dangerous part would be letting the level get too low and adding too much cold water. The water would have to be hot, wouldn't it? Come to think of it, I did have to do that the other day with the lamb tagine from your web site. Come to think of it...ok, I really think the clay pots need more liquid.

You absolutely should type up a djej mhammer recipe so other interested readers (especially Sackville, who asked) can try it too. If you don't, I'll be happy to do it - I logged on with that intent, but don't want to if you're in the process right now. If I do it, it will have to be from The Slow Mediterranean Kitchen.

The other thing I think you could say relates to the discussion we're having right now. If you're cooking a tagine, how do you know much liquid should be there? There's a visual cue for the simmer (barely bubbling). There's a visual cue for the spice coatings (well coated, and heated until the meat is warming/steam begins to rise from the pot). There's a tactile cue for the meat (pull-apart, meltingly tender). What's the cue for the appropriate amount of liquid?

[Wolfert]

Nancy:

Your claypot is shallow enough to stand in for all tagine cooking in clay. With a crumbled piece of wet parchment and that ceramic cover from the other pot which its dome-y top, you needn't wrestle with changing to another pot.

Your bourma looks as if it could carry on the spirit of claypot cooking perfectly.

The dilemma that faces most cooks trying their hand at Moroccan 'tagine cuisine' is to accept the concept of the "bottom up" nature of the cooking, to cook over heat not in an oven. And to the desire to keep traditional cooking alive, flavorful and compelling, and maintaining the spirit of the food by using the right ingredients.

[fifi]

Smithy, I think you are on the right track as to being able to use the glazed dish stove top with the proper precautions and will be interested in the comparative results. I would try it. The only caveat would be if the glaze is crazed or cracked in any way so that moisture could get under it and "blow it off" when the water gets heated to steam.

The glazed pot will not have the water "galloping" through the walls of the pot but will have about the same thermal characteristics of the unglazed clay. The Corning ceramic is an entirely different thing, thermally speaking. The thermal characteristics are a complex mix of heat capacity and conductivity issues. Only the unglazed clay adds that complicating, and fascinating, characteristic of "galloping" water through the walls.

On your Egyptian pot, I think I understand the hanging loops but could you explain the steadying points and how they are employed in traditional useage?

Uh . . . As I think about it, I am not sure I understand the hanging loops, either. Please expound. That is a fascinating pot.

[Smithy]

On your Egyptian pot, I think I understand the hanging loops but could you explain the steadying points and how they are employed in traditional useage?

Uh . . . As I think about it, I am not sure I understand the hanging loops, either. Please expound. That is a fascinating pot.

You have to understand, I have seen these pots in exactly 3 uses:
(1) at our friend's flat in Luxor, where they were used to serve potatoes in tomato sauce (I think she cooked in a larger pot, considering the way the borma kept magically refilling as we heroically struggled to eat our way through the feast - hospitality and etiquette there is a whole different topic)
(2) at the pottery stand, where there are oodles of wonderful clay pots of all sizes and purposes, all uncured, and
(3) at our house, where until very recently this one has been holding an impressive collection of cones and pods from Southern California.

However, I have seen the tagines (smaller pots, often used for moussaka, you can see one in my Braising Lab 1, or I can post another photo) in action in Egypt. The tagines have handles without holes, so there's no way to loop something through the handles to suspend the pot over a fire. The restaurants set these pots right down on the coals, or in the fireplace, or in the oven. There has to be a way to lift them out. As I recall there are tongs or a U-shaped implement on a long handle for reaching in to grab the pot. Those have to fit in under the handles. When I say "steadying point" I'm guessing, and it's just a guess, that the little triangular point fits into the crotch of the U or the tong to steady it just a bit more and keep it from pivoting too much on its handles.

Now, I'm speculating on this borma and the hanging loops (main handles), but you could loop wire through the handles and then hang this pot from a horizontal rod that you could swing in and out of the fire, a la big pots in an early American fireplace. The problem is that this pot is so broad compared to its depth that it will swing like crazy if you have to stir it. You have to be able to steady it somehow, and the triangular things I called "steadying points" are strategically located at the farthest point of the rim from the hanging loops to do just that.

Of course, it's also entirely possible that these loopy handles are for putting ropes through so you can hang these pots as planters (a future use for more pots at our house) and that the triangular points are there to strengthen the rim, or because they look cool, or because sometimes the pots go into a ring-shaped support and need 4-point support, or because they've been done that way forever and nobody knows why anymore.

Thanks for reminding me about the different thermal characteristics of the Corning vs. these two pots. I suspect the lima pot has different characteristics than the clay too, but that they're a lot closer together. OK, it's decided. If the lima pot blows up, there'll be space atop the cabinet for a Rifi tagine.

Edited by Smithy, 20 March 2005 - 12:31 PM.

[fifi]

. . . . .
OK, it's decided.  If the lima pot blows up, there'll be space atop the cabinet for a Rifi tagine.

That's the spirit!

Thanks for the feedback on the design details. It is all fascinating to me.

[fifi]

. . . . .
The dilemma that  faces most  cooks trying their hand at Moroccan 'tagine cuisine' is  to accept the concept of the "bottom up" nature of the cooking, to cook over heat not in an oven. And to the desire  to keep traditional cooking alive, flavorful and compelling, and maintaining the spirit of the food by using the right ingredients.

I am going to make a leap of faith here . . .

Maybe one of the problems some of us have here in the west is that we don't really understand gentle heat from the bottom. Part of my "leap" is that we don't understand what that means. Driven by the need to conserve precious fuel, this cooking technique has been developed to maximize the effect of very gentle heat from below provided by the fewest coals possible. I am beginning to believe that we are having to go to extraordinary measures to adapt our gonzo stoves to this gentle bottom heat . . . flame tamers, wok rings, etc. I think I will try the "few coals" under the tagine when I get it. I have my smoker which I can break down to provide a place to ignite a chimney of charcoal. (I am working on an apartment balconey.) Then perhaps, I can get a cheap grill or habachi to sit the tagine on and transfer a few coals at a time under it. I can put my remote thermometer probe in there to monitor the temperature of the ingredients. I can also make note of the temperatures with how many coals I use, standardizing on Kingsford briquets maybe.

Oh my. This sounds like a lot of fun! It will probably be quite a while before I get to try this as my tagine hasn't arrived yet. It will have to be cured. Then I have to find that little charcoal grill or whatever. (Not to worry. This internet medium means that I can always bump this topic back up.) Then I have to decide which recipe to try first. Any recommendations?

[Smithy]

News update: There really has been a run on the tagines! The tagines.com web site now says, for the Rifi tagines, "Order now and allow 12 - 16 weeks for delivery" Last week it said "in stock"!

Talk about mixed feelings. My self-control held long enough that I can't have that instant gratification. Now I really may as well hold off on the order.

[Smithy]

Nancy:

Your claypot is  shallow enough to stand in for all tagine cooking in clay. With a crumbled piece of wet parchment and that ceramic cover from the other pot which its dome-y top, you needn't wrestle with changing to another pot.

Your bourma looks as if it could carry on the spirit of claypot cooking perfectly.

The dilemma that  faces most  cooks trying their hand at Moroccan 'tagine cuisine' is  to accept the concept of the "bottom up" nature of the cooking, to cook over heat not in an oven. And to the desire  to keep traditional cooking alive, flavorful and compelling, and maintaining the spirit of the food by using the right ingredients.

Paula, thank you for that. I managed to overlook this post until after I'd gone to the tagines.com web site and discovered that Fifi's jest wasn't really a joke. What perfect timing!

[Wolfert]

From the 1973 edition
Mhammer.Chicken Braised and Browned (Djej Mahammer)

This is a Rabat recipe for a dish that is cooked and served throughout Morocco. In Tangier some people add a little bit of hot red pepper to the sauce and eat the chicken with sautéed potatoes; in Fez they sprinkle it with buttered and browned almonds; and in Marrakech, where it is served without accompaniment, the sauce is usually jazzed up with extra paprika, and sprigs of mint are added with the green coriander.

Serves 8

1/8 teaspoon pulverized saffron soaked in ¼ cup hot water

l teaspoon mashed garlic
¼ teaspoon ground turmeric
2 teaspoons sweet paprika
¼ teaspoon ground cumin
Salt
2 chickens (3 pounds each) whole, with 3 livers

¼ cup grated onion
¾ cup sweet butter
4 sprigs green coriander, pounded to a paste in a mortar

Mix the saffron water with the garlic, spices and slat. Rub into the prepared chickens and lay them on their sides in the casserole. Add the livers, onions, and half the butter. Pour in 3 cups water and bring to a boil. Add the coriander and simmer, covered, over moderate low heat l hour, turning the chickens from time to time.

Midway, remove and mash the livers, then return them to the sauce.

When very tender, remove the chickens and keep warm. Heat the remaining butter in the skillet and brown one chicken one at a time until crusty all over. Transfer to a serving platter and put in a warm oven while browning the second chicken. (They can be browned in very hot oven.)

Meanwhile, by boiling rapidly, uncovered, reduce the sauce to make abut ¾ cup thick gray. Serve the chicken with the sauce pour over.
c\paula wolfert, 1973,2005

Double Cooked Red Chicken Marrakech Style

The generous use of Moroccan mild paprika, felfla hloua, in this classic recipe explains its Moroccan name, m’hammer, or ‘reddish.’ The double-cooking method increases the complexity and depth of flavor of the dish. Garnish with slices of preserved lemons, if desired.

Note the change of garnish from the original recipe.


Serves 6 to 8

5 cloves garlic, smashed
L tablespoon coarsely chopped fresh cilantro
l/8 teaspoon saffron threads, crushed
1 ¼ teaspoons coarse salt
2 tablespoons unsalted butter, melted
2 whole chickens (3 pounds each) backbones removed
1 12 tablespoons sweet paprika, preferably ‘Spanish” or felfla hloua
l teaspoon ground cumin
¼ teaspoon freshly ground pepper
Pinch of ground ginger
Cayenne
1 small onion, grated

1. In a mortar or mini food processor, mash or pulse the garlic with the cilantro, saffron, and l teaspoon of the salt until a coarse paste forms. Transfer the paste to a bowl and stir in the melted butter.
2. Re-form the chickens and tie them up with string. Rub the garlic paste all over the chickens, cover loosely with plastic wrap or foil, and let stand at room temperature for l hour.
3. Put the chicken backbones in a large enameled cast iron casserole. Add the chickens, breast side up. In a bowl, combine 1 tablespoon of the paprika with ½ teaspoon of the cumin, the pepper, ginger, and a pinch of cayenne. Sprinkle the spice mixture over the chickens and cook over moderately low heat until steam begins to rise, about 5 minutes.


4. Mix the onion into 1 ½ cups water and pour around he chickens. Bring to a boil over high heat. Reduce the heat to low, cover and simmer until the juices run clear when the thighs are pierced near the bone with a knife, about 1 hour. Transfer the chickens to a cutting board and remove the strings and keep the chicken intact.

5. Discard the backbones. skim off the fat from the sauce, reserving 3 tablespoons fat. Boil the sauce until it is reduced to l cup, about l5 minutes. Transfer to a small saucepan and keep warm.
6. Preheat the broiler; stir the remaining ½ tablespoon paprika and ½ teaspoon cumin into the reserved 3 tablespoons chicken fat. Add a pinch of cayenne and ¼ teaspoon salt. Put the chicken in a roasting pan, breast side up, and rub with the spiced fat. Broil 8 to 10 inches from the heat until browned on all sides. Carve the chicken and pass the warm sauce at the table.
7.
8.
9. The chickens and sauce can be prepared through step 4 and refrigerated overnight. Let the chickens return to room temperature before proceeding. Rewarm the sauce in a small saucepan over low heat


What would I do today? I would use the Riffian or the Souss tagine and use one chicken (and maybe 1 or 2 chicken livers) and set the backbone-less chicken into the yoga pose upthread. Cut everything else in half and proceed with either recipe.

If desired, garnish with preserved lemons or mint and cilantro.

Edited by Wolfert, 20 March 2005 - 02:04 PM.

[fifi]

News update:  There really has been a run on the tagines!  The tagines.com web site now says, for the Rifi tagines, "Order now and allow 12 - 16 weeks for delivery"  Last week it said "in stock"!  

Talk about mixed feelings.  My self-control held long enough that I can't have that instant gratification.  Now I really may as well hold off on the order. 

I hate to burst your bubble but the site said the same thing when I ordered mine. I just checked the tracking and it is on its way.