226 replies to this topic

[trillium]

Isn't "very good recipes" what most people buy cookbooks for? Cookbooks are meant to be read in the kitchen, I would think, not sitting on the crapper.

Not every person has an ethnic Chinese family member full of their own biases/traditions cooking in the kitchen. For many people interested in learning about a cuisine different from their own an ideal cookbook gives some background and context to the dishes it sets out recipes for. Food is a very personal area, and for many, a good cookbook not only contains recipes but explains the culinary point of reference of the author.

I'm curious, we know you do a lot of eating, but do you do any cooking? I don't mean that in a sarcastic way, just that if your view towards a good cookbook might change in different circumstances.

regards,
trillium

[Gary Soup]

I'm curious, we know you do a lot of eating, but do you do any cooking? I don't mean that in a sarcastic way, just that if your view towards a good cookbook might change in different circumstances.

I don't do much cooking these days, but of course I cooked for myself in my single days, and in my first marriage I probably cooked as much as my wife. It was a sweet deal, IMHO: If I cooked, she would do the dishes. Much better than the other way around. Now my wife won't let me do either.

I always cooked something that I had had some experience eating, and a notion of how it should turn out. I viewed cookbooks as a technical manual, for ingredients, times, techniques, etc. but was always glad to put them aside and take my best shot.

I do a lot of reading about the history and anthroplogy of foods, especially Chinese food and its globalization, but but see that as a separate intellectual exercise. No sense spilling sesame oil on a $40 tome that doesn't have a laminated cover.

I do like to browse through cookbooks that have good illustrations, but that's just from my weakness for food porn (I COULD say that I read them for the articles).

[chengb02]

this has been a very interesting discussion to me as I've always considered getting a Chinese cookbook in the US to add to my collection of ones purchased in China and recipes from relatives, but never really sure as to which ones will produce the "authentic" flavors that I know and am looking for.
When I do deal with cookbooks, I typically am just looking for a good recipe and maybe a picture or two of the dish, anything more can get to be overkill, but it really depends on who is writing the book. That doesn't mean scholarly inquiry (or even just a bit of knowledge on the food) is a bad thing, but I'd prefer to find it in something other than a cookbook.

[Gary Soup]

I've stumbled across an on-line source of bilingual (Chinese-English) cookbooks -- almost 200 titles, including many in the Wei-Chuan series. The distributor is in Texas, so shipping costs should not be a big factor.

Tsai Fong Books

[FoodMan]

probably a stupid question but I think this is a good place to ask it instead of starting a new thread. I've been meaning to try one of the ribs recipes from In the Wei Chuan "Chinese Cuisine" book. However, in the ingredient lists they always ask for "pork back ribs" no matter what the preparation is. So, should I just buy spare ribs or do they mean baby back ribs??

Elie

[Ben Hong]

IMHO, any ole rib will do. Hell, pork chops will do and they are sometimes cheaper. Certainly you get more meat from a pork chop. Back ribs are more tender and leaner, but nothing beats the greasy chewiness of side ribs / spareribs.

Except for certain very specified ingredients, substitution and versatility should be a guideline. Nothing that you put in the pot will actually poison anyone and there definitely won't be a guy in the kitchen ready to "GONG" you. Cooking should be a creative process.

[jo-mel]

probably a stupid question but I think this is a good place to ask it instead of starting a new thread. I've been meaning to try one of the ribs recipes from In the Wei Chuan "Chinese Cuisine" book. However, in the ingredient lists they always ask for "pork back ribs" no matter what the preparation is. So, should I just buy spare ribs or do they mean baby back ribs??

Elie

Recently at a Chinese restaurant, they had Deep-Fried Salt & Pepper Spare Ribs on the menu. I love these things, so I ordered it. Turned out not to be spare ribs, but a thin porkchop with a small bone. Not what I expected, but it was just as good as the usual ribs. Both pork -- both good.

[Gary Soup]

probably a stupid question but I think this is a good place to ask it instead of starting a new thread. I've been meaning to try one of the ribs recipes from In the Wei Chuan "Chinese Cuisine" book. However, in the ingredient lists they always ask for "pork back ribs" no matter what the preparation is. So, should I just buy spare ribs or do they mean baby back ribs??

Elie

Recently at a Chinese restaurant, they had Deep-Fried Salt & Pepper Spare Ribs on the menu. I love these things, so I ordered it. Turned out not to be spare ribs, but a thin porkchop with a small bone. Not what I expected, but it was just as good as the usual ribs. Both pork -- both good.

Chinese tend to loosely use the same word "paigu" for any part of the loin, just as they use the word "tipang" for any part of the leg, from the foot to the ham. "Rou" is often associated with the side, though of course it can refer generally to any kind of flesh.

[mudbug]

Isn't "very good recipes" what most people buy cookbooks for? Cookbooks are meant to be read in the kitchen, I would think, not sitting on the crapper.

Cookbooks are meant to be read in the kitchen, I would think, not sitting on the crapper.

I have agree with the first sentence and disagree with the second, everyone is different. My other half does a lot of cooking and likes to read at that time. I make sure there's a cookbook or two in amongst the magazines and inevitably new dishes in the kitchen will result from the time spent reading the recipes outside of the kitchen.

If it's a cookbook - first and foremost, quality recipes are certainly the number one priority... as for pictures, history, personal comments, etc. Everyone (both writer and reader) is different. Some learn by reading, some are visual learners, other auditory, etc. Experience also has a lot to do with it. Someone who's been cooking a wide variety of foods for a number of years is more likely to be able to read a recipe without pictures and be able to accurately assume what it's going to look and taste like and what adjustments they might make themselves. Others need photos to see what their goal is.

Assuming that the recipes are universally perceived as "good", I don't think there's a right or wrong way to embellish additional information as long as it's pertinent to the recipe and the recipe is accurate and easy to read.

We all present ourselves in different ways and learn in different ways and we're all at different levels of cooking experience. What's important is that there's something for everyone.

[mags]

In thinking about why I so love Modern Art of Chinese Cooking, and am so ...almost turned off by China Moon, I can't help feeling that the latter cookbook was heavily influenced by Tropp's health. Specifically, she had cancer, and was -- or so I've read -- deeply engaged in pursuing a "healthier" lifestyle in order to try to beat the disease. So when I look through the China Moon book, I'm so aware of how low-fat many of the recipes are, of what seems like an almost overly aggressive attempt to pile in as many different vegetables as possible, etc. It reads, to me, like a "The Healthy Way to Eat Chinese" sort of cookbook, reminding me of some vaguely depressing offering from the Weight Watchers press -- despite the incredibly labor-intensive stuff involving making one's own chili oil and whatever else is called for in the book.

[FoodMan]

In thinking about why I so love Modern Art of Chinese Cooking, and am so ...almost turned off by China Moon, I can't help feeling that the latter cookbook was heavily influenced by Tropp's health. Specifically, she had cancer, and was -- or so I've read -- deeply engaged in pursuing a "healthier" lifestyle in order to try to beat the disease. So when I look through the China Moon book, I'm so aware of how low-fat many of the recipes are, of what seems like an almost overly aggressive attempt to pile in as many different vegetables as possible, etc. It reads, to me, like a "The Healthy Way to Eat Chinese" sort of cookbook, reminding me of some vaguely depressing offering from the Weight Watchers press -- despite the incredibly labor-intensive stuff involving making one's own chili oil and whatever else is called for in the book.

Thanks for the very insightful observation mags, that does make sense. Did you ever eat at China Moon? Does the book reflect the items offered there? I am wondering now if she changed her menu at the restaurant as a response to her battle with cancer. Maybe China Moon would've been a more popular book had she written it in different times...I guess we'll never know.


Elie

[mags]

I ate at China Moon once, about a year before it closed, and I was sadly disappointed -- probably, in retrospect, for some of the same reasons the second book disappointed me. I'm guessing she did change her menu just as she changed her cooking (as reflected in the transition from the first to the second book), but somebody who ate there over a period of time would be better placed to answer than I.

[jo-mel]

Barbara Tropp's China Moon cookbook came out in 1992. I guess it would have taken a couple of years to write it. I'm not sure when she first discovered she was ill, but I would guess the mid 90s??

I was only at the China Moon Cafe once --- sometime in the 80s if my memory is right. At the time, looking at the menu,I thought it was part of the California fusion cooking that was beginning to take hold. The cookbook reflects it --IMMHO. Her short life was so full, and she was always reaching up. -- I guess the China Moon cookbook was the creative way to go, after her 'Modern Art' -- One of my bibles.

She signed my Modern Art book which I had with me. Her writing is very creative and covers the whole page. What really got to me was her ease in writing my name, as well as hers, in beautiful flowing Chinese. Not the writing of someone ith an illness.

As I had only been there once, I don't know what the food was like in later years.

It was only since I've been here at e-Gullet that I found she had died. I was shocked. Such a free spirit she was.

[Andrea Nguyen]

Jo-mel,

Through "The Modern Art of Chinese Cooking" Barbara Tropp will always be right there in your kitchen with you! That was her style. I have two copies -- just in case one falls apart!

Tropp mentions Irene Kuo in that work and Kuo's "Keys to Chinese Cooking" is a classic. Fuschia Dunlop's recent work on Sichuan food, "Land of Plenty" will burn a little fire in your belly; her research is along the line of Tropp's. Grace Young's "Wisdom from the Chinese Kitchen" has terrific Cantonese recipes and provides cultural context.

Happy eating and cooking,

Andrea

[Min]

For homestyle meals, i like classic 1000 chinese recipes by wendy hobson and chinese cooking made easy by mu tsun lee/wei chuan publishing.Another good read is chinese dim sum by wei chuan publishing.

[Big Bunny]

I know of three 1000-recipe Chinese cookbooks:

Gloria Bley Miller:
The 1000 Recipe Chinese Cookbook

Chang & Kutscher:
An Encyclopedia of Chinese Food and Cooking: 1000 Recipes Adapted to the American Kitchen

Wendy Hobson:
The Classic 1000 Chinese Recipes

Each is a gem, in its own way.

The Miller book was especially valuable 25 years ago, when substitutions were the rule and Chinese groceries seemed more intimidating.

The "Encyclopedia" packs a lot of information into the form of an abbreviated mise-en-place.

Hobson has just collected all kinds of recipes - it is a great source of ideas, and most of the recipes are easy.

It is not always clear which book someone means when they mention a 1000-recipe Chinese cookbook.

Are there any others?

BB

[jo-mel]

When I refer to a 1000 recipe Chinese cookbook, I usually mean Bley Miller. When I hear the term, I think Bley Miller. But that's just me.

[mudbug]

I agree, I think of this one by Gloria Bley Miller

[susruta]

Chang & Kutscher:
An Encyclopedia of Chinese Food and Cooking: 1000 Recipes Adapted to the American Kitchen

I'm glad to see this book was mentioned; it is my standard book for Chinese food. No photos, no frills, no editorial or historical commentary -- just a lot of recipesI don't even know where or why I bought it but I'm glad I did.

It's very easy to use and always has a recipe that covers whatever ingredients I have on hand -- so I don't need to go running to the store.

[jo-mel]

Chang & Kutscher:
An Encyclopedia of Chinese Food and Cooking: 1000 Recipes Adapted to the American Kitchen

I'm glad to see this book was mentioned; it is my standard book for Chinese food. No photos, no frills, no editorial or historical commentary -- just a lot of recipesI don't even know where or why I bought it but I'm glad I did.

It's very easy to use and always has a recipe that covers whatever ingredients I have on hand -- so I don't need to go running to the store.

Indeed -- a good basic, down to earth book full of authentic recipes. No General Tso's Chicken here!

My first copy was in 1979, and that was the 9th printing, so it has been around for a loooong time. (relatively)

[Big Bunny]

Over the weekend I used "Chinese Seafood Cooking" by Stella Lau Fessler.

This is a modest book, but covers its subject very well. It is out of print, but available used on the web.

I found this book once at a used book store and rarely think of it. It is a perfect example of a "small" book about a single aspect of cooking that is usually short-changed in standard cookbooks.

BB

[Qing]

Did you see Martin Yan’s cooking show?

He is a funny guy with Cantonese English accent, and he explains Chinese food in English very well.

I am not agreeing on him for he put many fruit in to his dish. I heard those stuffs was appeared on the Hawaii Cuisine Chinese food, which was popular before I was born. But his points on cooking method are very clear.

1.The major Chinese thickening agent is oil mixed with cornstarch, which is the biggest different between Chinese and Western cooking. I believe that Chinese wouldn’t accept roux in their food in the next century.
2.There are 5 basic sauces in French cooking, but only one for Chinese--- Soy Sauce. If you want make your dish real Chinese, you can’t do it without Say sauce.


Here is his website, pretty useful.
http://yancancook.as...onnections.com/

I think his cooking hand book only cost $34.95 with a CD, so you can see his performance.

Edited by Qing, 05 August 2004 - 04:08 PM.

[hzrt8w]

1.The major Chinese thickening agent is oil mixed with cornstarch, which is the biggest different between Chinese and Western cooking.
2.There are 5 basic sauces in French cooking, but only one for Chinese--- Soy Sauce. If you want make your dish real Chinese, you can’t do it without Say sauce.

1. Cornstarch and oil do not mix too well. I take it that you mean water mixed with cornstarch as a thickening agent?

2. While soy sauce is indeed use very often, similar to salt and pepper in Western cooking, I wouldn't say it is the *only one* basic sauce in Chinese cooking. Oyster sauce, vinegar, Hoisin, brown bean paste, chile bean paste, even shrimp paste, etc. all have their places. It is the different mix and match along with different processes (timing) and methods (steam, fry, deep-fry, stir-fry, braise, bake, boil, simmer, double boil, etc.) that make a variety of different dishes in Chinese cooking.

Edited by hzrt8w, 06 August 2004 - 06:54 PM.

[Qing]

In my memories, the first time I heard those names from Lee Ken Kee's commercials after I came to America. Those names are familiar to you like Oyster, Hoisin, Shrimp Sauce.

They are not come from the first three major Chinese Cuisines. 鲁菜Lu Cai (Shan Dong or Bejing Royal Cuisine) ，川菜Chuan Cai(Sichaun Cuisine) ，淮阳菜(Huai Yang or Shanghai Cuisine). Hoisin and Oyster sauce are used popular in 粤菜 (Cantonese Cuisine), even Shrimp sauce is Malaysian or Southeast Asian seasoning.

Like Singapore MaiFei is served in every Chinese restaurant, but it is not a Chinese dish.
It is still hard for Chinese people who live here to find a really authentic Chinese restaurant.

[hzrt8w]

They are not come from the first three major Chinese Cuisines. 鲁菜Lu Cai (Shan Dong or Bejing Royal Cuisine) ，川菜Chuan Cai(Sichaun Cuisine) ，淮阳菜(Huai Yang or Shanghai Cuisine).

Are you saying in Lu Cai, Chuan Cai, Huai Yang Cai, they mainly use soy sauce to cook? I thought they use chili bean sauce 豆板酱 and brown bean sauce just as often. Maybe you don't consider those as sauces?

[Gary Soup]

They are not come from the first three major Chinese Cuisines. 鲁菜Lu Cai (Shan Dong  or Bejing Royal  Cuisine) ，川菜Chuan Cai(Sichaun Cuisine) ，淮阳菜(Huai Yang or Shanghai Cuisine).

Are you saying in Lu Cai, Chuan Cai, Huai Yang Cai, they mainly use soy sauce to cook? I thought they use chili bean sauce 豆板酱 and brown bean sauce just as often. Maybe you don't consider those as sauces?

My wife is Shanghainese and she uses soy sauce (or rather several soy sauces) almost exclusively. She probably uses ketchup more than brown bean sauce, oyster sauce, haixin sauce or any other!

[liuzhou]

And I can add that here in Guangxi, it is soy sauce all the way. Maybe we willl have some oyster sauce at home too.

The others. Never.

[Mayhaw Man]

I have a number of Chinese cookbooks, but I seem to pick up Craig Claiborne and Virginia Lee's Chinese Cooking(which is apparently only available used). But you don't want my copy, as I have used it so much that the cover is about to come off. There are lots of very detailed instructions as to technique and many of the recipes lend themselves to making large amounts (the spring roll recipe is particularly good for this, for example).

[t2contra]

If you want good authentic recipes, go for Eileen Yin Fei Lo's cookbooks. They match restaurant standards, not some half baked pretenders.

[lmarshal1]

I have really enjoyed the discussion here about favorite Chinese cookbooks. After reading most of the posts, I have several of the cookbooks marked for possible bids on eBay, especially since several of the most often mentioned ones are now out of print. An interesting thread. Thanks.
lkm