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Making Fresh Masa

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#61 theabroma

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Posted 20 December 2006 - 07:56 PM

I am serving tamalitos on Monday, but I am using fresh masa on Sunday. Which is the best scenario?

• Keep the fresh masa for a day, and assemble and steam the tamales on Monday?

• Make the tamales on Sunday, and steam them on Monday?

• Make the tamales on Sunday and steam them on Sunday, and reheat or re-steam on Monday?

Any other ideas?

¡Felices fiestas a todos!

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Ideally, make the fillings the night before, allow to cool and blend. Make the masa the morning of, and then fill and steam. Steaming usually takes about an hour or hous and 15 minutes - depending on the size and you should allow at least 30 to 45 minutes with the heat off to let the tamales 'set' prior to serving.


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#62 esperanza

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Posted 21 December 2006 - 11:07 AM

You will probably have tamales left over--para recalentar (to reheat).

On bended knee, I beg you to reheat them the way I was taught: in the husks, on a hot griddle or comal, until the husks are dark brown or nearly black.

Peel the husks off. The tamales will be slightly crisp along the edges, but still pliable, soft, and steamy. It's an unparalleled eating experience.

Re-steamed or heated in the microwave simply doesn't do it.

Wish I had one right now--or two.

Feliz Navidad, and happy eating.

Edited by esperanza, 21 December 2006 - 11:07 AM.

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#63 Gabriel Lewis

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Posted 21 December 2006 - 04:18 PM

Wow, I had been so busy for the past few weeks that I forgot about this thread completely. It is wonderful to see that more people have shared their input.

I actually did end up making tamales, but I got so busy afterwards that I neglected to write up the experience and share photos. And now I am visiting my parents over the holidays and the photos are at home! Alas, I will have to post them when I get back.

I only got around to trying tamales de puerco, which using my recipe consisted of a filling of carnitas, hominy, and a single spanish olive. I used carnitas a la Jaymes, which are unbelievably good, and maiz para posole that i simmered until soft (it was preshelled). For the masa I used maseca from the white bag, as I was unable to find any Maseca specified as being for tamales in my area. The first time I mixed the lard into the masa until it looked like coarse meal (with a touch of salt), added hot chicken stock until it pulled from the sides of the bowl, and then used it like that, after it had cooled.

The second time I followed the general directions from Abra's recipe (near bottom of the first page) but only used lard, maseca, salt, and chicken stock for my ingredients.

Both times the tamales were really good, and the salsa colorado really added something, but the masa seemed lacking. I mean it was tasty, but it just didn't have any of the magic that I imagine when I hear people talking about tamales so impassionately.

In both batches the masa seemed a littly dry. They were fairly small tamales and only seemed to take 45 minutes or so to set. The first batch I probably let steam after they were set for an extra 15-20 minutes, but the second I watched carefully and took out of the steamer as soon as it seemed they were set. My experience with a lot of similarly steamed things is that usually oversteaming is not a real risk, is this the case too with tamales?

The second batch seemed a little lighter than the first, which I attributed to the baking powder and the whipping of the lard, but the difference was not that striking. I was curious about the whipping step in Abra's recipe, as it seemed somewhat akin to creaming to me. My lard was at room temperature though, while I'm not exactly sure about the theory behind the technique, I think that it probably would have been better to have it chilled and slightly softened.

Theabroma:

Many thanks for the detailed instructions, I hope to try them out soon. I am at my parents home in Portland Oregon for a few weeks over christmas, and availability for mexican ingredients is much better here than in Montreal. One snag though is that I don't have a food processor here, would grinding the corn be feasible in a blender? If not I may be able to borrow a processor.

you should allow at least 30 to 45 minutes with the heat off to let the tamales 'set' prior to serving.


I was intrigued by this comment. Do the tamales improve after a resting period, and if so, what underlies this improvement? And how do you reheat them?

Barb:

Indeed, success is the ultimate measure. I will be sure to attempt your mixing method, music and good humor included. I wonder if you might elaborate though on how you know when the masa is ready, or what exactly the whipping is doing (just lightening the masa?)?

Esperanza:

Your method for re-heating sounds wonderful, but what if the tamales are frozen?

Now I just have to find some of the right corn and figure out what kind of tamales I'd like to make.

More info is always welcome though! I'd love to hear anyone talk about the use of spices in the masa or proportions of fat and liquid used.

#64 Chris Amirault

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Posted 12 July 2007 - 09:01 PM

Update: I have both a KA meat grinder and a grain mill, the cal, and the will to move forward. Now all I need is some good quality corn. Sources? Nothing listed at Rancho Gordo, though it's not the right season, I think.
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#65 rancho_gordo

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Posted 13 July 2007 - 08:10 AM

Sorry- I'm in the process of growing organic starch corn suitable for this but it won't be ready for months.

Oddly, I just tried using the KA meat grinder and I hate to say it, but it doesn't work. It's too coarse. Maybe you could do tamales but I don't know. I put the masa through twice on the finest setting with no luck.

My next batch I used this:
Posted Image

It worked but what a pain in the rear! It also took two passes but the masa was great.

I see why the arrival of the modern tortilleria liberated Mexican women! I have two metates coming and I'll report on that technique if you like.

I think my long term goal might be to see if I can offer an organic, or at least quality Maseca like product.
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#66 dsquare

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Posted 13 July 2007 - 01:17 PM

Good Eats did an episode on making masa. Here is the link to the transcript if you are interested. Good Eats: Tort(illa) Reform

Edited by dsquare, 13 July 2007 - 01:19 PM.

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#67 rancho_gordo

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Posted 13 July 2007 - 01:47 PM

Good Eats did an episode on making masa.  Here is the link to the transcript if you are interested. Good Eats: Tort(illa) Reform

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Interesting. He says to use a food processor. I'll try it tonight but I'm very doubtful. Grinding and mincing seem like different activities.
He's the one who recommends rinsing your roasted peppers under running water to clean them. The skins go down the sink, along with some precious flavor.
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#68 rancho_gordo

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Posted 13 July 2007 - 06:16 PM

Hysterical. It didn't work at all. The masa stops moving and it's no where near fine enough, not even for tamales. A waste of almost 2 pounds of good nixtamizled corn. At least the chickens will enjoy it.

I think Alton Brown (and Mark Bittman and Sandra Lee) should all leave Mexican food alone. We'll do ok without them.
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#69 andiesenji

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Posted 13 July 2007 - 07:17 PM

One appliance that works is one of the Indian food mills, usually listed as a "mixie" or a wet/dry grinder.

This site shows the inner workings of one brand.
food grinder/mixer

There are a few brand names, Sumeet, Preethi, Premier, Santha, even Sharp now makes one that is significantly more expensive than most of the others.
here is one vendor.
and...... Bombay limited in Irving, TX

There have been a few discussions about this type of appliance. Sumeet was one of the first sold in the U.S. but imports were a problem last year and one model was recalled, but there are quite a few in use and people do like them.

This thread is about the Sumeet.
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#70 Chris Amirault

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Posted 21 July 2007 - 10:57 AM

Oddly, I just tried using the KA meat grinder and I hate to say it, but it doesn't work. It's too coarse. Maybe you could do tamales but I don't know. I put the masa through twice on the finest setting with no luck.

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Strike one.

Has anyone tried the KA grain mill?
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#71 Chris Amirault

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Posted 11 March 2008 - 06:48 PM

BUMP.

Thanks to a diligent mother-in-law, who went to Bisbee AZ, trucked dried dent corn back to Montana, and then hauled it to Nashville for a week with her daughter (and my wife), I am now in possession of 20 lbs of the stuff I need. I also have a bag of Cal (lime) ready to go. Finally, I have a food mill for the KitchenAid, which I'm assured is the best option for this process. My guide is Diana Kennedy, following the directions in The Art of Mexican Cooking, pages 7-9.

I'm about to start recruiting suckers -- I mean, collaborators -- for a major tamale-making event. Any tips for preparing the nixtamal or masa? Should I be terrified when Kennedy tosses off the suggestion that you "send [the nixtamal] to the mill to be ground," knowing that the mill is me? Any ideas on how to avoid overcooking, given that overcooked corn "will make a tacky masa"?

In short: help...?
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#72 lperry

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Posted 12 March 2008 - 06:55 AM

I don't know enough to help, but I am happy to provide clueless encouragement! This sounds like a great project and I will be watching to see how it goes. I've been eyeing some blue corn at the international grocery - I have visions of purple pupusas...

#73 Msk

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 08:22 AM

I am in a rush unfortunately and can't provide the link at the moment but Alton Brown also did a Good Eats episode where he made Masa from scratch. it may be worth trying to find it or google for the transcript.

I have been dying to try this myself.

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#74 rancho_gordo

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 09:30 AM

I ended up going through all the steps. I was told the KA food mill was for dry grains and wouldn't work.
The Alton Brown method is a joke. I wish he would stay away from Mexican food.
My trials are documented here, if you care.
In the end, I came to the conclusion Maseca is not the devil (but canned hominy is). The most practical thing to do is the hand grinder which is about 20 bucks and pictured in a previous post.
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#75 Chris Hennes

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 09:41 AM

I was told the KA food mill was for dry grains and wouldn't work.

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Did the KA people tell you this, or did someone who tried it tell you? I doubt the phone support from the KA folks would tell you to go ahead and try it, since it wasn't manufactured for that purpose, but I really don't see why it wouldn't work. Anyway, thanks for the blog on the topic, fascinating stuff. I'm not sure I'd care to buy a new appliance just to give it a try, but maybe if someday I have a really big kitchen...

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#76 rancho_gordo

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 10:10 AM

I was told the KA food mill was for dry grains and wouldn't work.

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Did the KA people tell you this, or did someone who tried it tell you? I doubt the phone support from the KA folks would tell you to go ahead and try it, since it wasn't manufactured for that purpose, but I really don't see why it wouldn't work. Anyway, thanks for the blog on the topic, fascinating stuff. I'm not sure I'd care to buy a new appliance just to give it a try, but maybe if someday I have a really big kitchen...

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It was a fellow Mexican food enthusiast who said it wouldn't work. I wasn't going to risk it.

Looking over this thread, I see andiesenji mentions the Indian thing. Being the obsessive I am, I bought one. It's ok but it's still not fine enough. If you were a tamal addict, it would be a great way to go but for $200 or so, it's not a fine enough grind for tortillas.
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#77 Chris Amirault

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 02:02 PM

My plan is to try the grain mill and take it from there. For $20 plus shipping on eBay, I'll also be glad to try the hand-cranked mill that Steve references as a pita above. More soon.
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#78 rancho_gordo

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 04:45 PM

I stand corrected re the Indian grinder. We made some masa here in the warehouse yesterday and it was a hit. But I've tried the Indian grinder about 7 or 8 times and this was the first time the masa was fine enough without being heavy.
You want to cook the corn in the cal just until you peel off the skins. For us this was about 20 minutes. Then you cover, turn off the heat and wait until morning. I've cooked it longer and the masa gets heavy and not very nice.
We also let the masa rest and this seemed to help.
Delicious results!
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#79 Chris Amirault

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Posted 01 April 2008 - 11:53 AM

Had to pause a bit in the project due to a collaborator's lack of availability. In the breach, I ordered some fresh lime from someone called Mrs. Wages, which will enable me to do a test of the new stuff with the old stuff that's been in my cupboard a long time (and was probably on the shelf for a while before I bought it).

Does anyone have a recommendation for a hand mill? I'm seeing all sorts of odd things out there like brands named "Generic," and this Corona seems a bit pricey.

You want to cook the corn in the cal just until you peel off the skins. For us this was about 20 minutes. Then you cover, turn off the heat and wait until morning. I've cooked it longer and the masa gets heavy and not very nice.

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Steve, can you clarify? Do you mean

(1) cook the corn for about 20 minutes or until you are able to peel of the skins; cover without heat over night; peel the skins; OR

(2) cook the corn for about 20 minutes or until you are able to peel of the skins; peel the skins; return to the pot and cover without heat over night?

I'm assuming it's (1) but I want to be sure.
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#80 rancho_gordo

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Posted 01 April 2008 - 05:15 PM

It's 1.
Keep checking the skins after 10 minutes. Once you can peel them, let them rest. You'll rub and peel later. I see Theobrama says 1 hour, but I've always heard 1 hour if you're making pozole, overnight for masa.
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#81 Gabriel Lewis

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Posted 05 April 2008 - 02:35 PM

I am very happy to see that someone else is pursuing their own fresh masa! I ended up giving up on my project, as I was never able to obtain suitable corn. But I did get a decent result once by grinding nixtamalized corn to a powder maseca-esque and then using this powder as a flour to make tortillas.

I hope you have your own lard ready for tamales when the finished product comes through!

I don't have any suggestions for a grinder, but probably dig up some resources on metates or metate like grinders if you want to go the true old school route. As for your lime, I wouldn't worry too much, calcium hydroxide should have a pretty stable shelf life, but remember to rinse well!

#82 Chris Amirault

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Posted 05 April 2008 - 02:46 PM

I hope you have your own lard ready for tamales when the finished product comes through!

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Dude. I am so larded. Click for more info.
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#83 Chris Hennes

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Posted 05 April 2008 - 05:01 PM

I just got a big Rancho Gordo order in and it included a bag of "white corn" (thanks, Señor Sando!)---is this the stuff y'all are using to make the masa? Any more progress on this front?

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#84 rancho_gordo

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Posted 05 April 2008 - 09:17 PM

I just got a big Rancho Gordo order in and it included a bag of "white corn" (thanks, Señor Sando!)---is this the stuff y'all are using to make the masa? Any more progress on this front?

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It sounds like we sent you posole, so that's best to soak and simmer. No cal needed. Did they send you a recipe card? Heads will roll!!!
We have a locally produced heirloom variety of corn from Jalisco that we'll be adding this week. And cal, too. You're still stuck on the grinding situation.
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#85 Chris Hennes

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 11:06 AM

It sounds like we sent you posole, so that's best to soak and simmer. No cal needed. Did they send you a recipe card? Heads will roll!!!

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lol, it is very possible there were recipes in the box, but I must be honest and admit that if there were, I didn't even notice them :unsure: . So posole is slaked corn, and I so I skip the cal step, if I can just figure out how to grind it. Has anyone used this grinder: Universal Grain/Corn/Cereal Mill?

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#86 rancho_gordo

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 01:10 PM

The posole is too expensive to grind, I would think.
That grinder looks similar to the one i have (there's a photo upthread) but it looks like they're grinding the corn dry. I did it wet.
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#87 kalypso

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Posted 07 April 2008 - 09:09 AM

FWIW, this is the grinder we used last summer at Diana Kennedy's house

Posted Image

Posted Image

You had to grind it through twice and used your fingers to kind guide the corn and ground corn down the hopper.

Posted Image

Here's what the internal gear looked like

Posted Image

The masa was quite good. Time consuming but good. DK grows some of her own corn, does the whole nixtamalization process, but she also sends corn out to the molinaro in the village above hers.

I have to say, she's got more interesting contraptions that she's picked up in her travels around Mexico that are so well suited to the task at hand.

#88 v. gautam

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Posted 07 April 2008 - 01:49 PM

Rancho Gordo,

Re: the mechanized Indian Stone Grinder, I looked at the ones Andiesenji had linked, but did not see the benchmark there, the Ultrapride series, sold by Innoconcepts in the US.

However, as you may already have realized, this machine is dedicated to a special task: wet grind rice and urad dal [ split, hulled Vigna mungo or black gram]. This the Ultrapride does very well indeed. It also grinds smaller amounts of "chutneys' with an attachment. In short, it is designed as the ideal machine for the vegetarian South Indian family, fixing the whole range of their favorite batters and sides extremely well. It does rice noodles and rice batters superbly as well.

As I noted in another thread, it does not have the weight/power in its roller assembly to handle heavier grains like maize. Nor are the Indian "blender" machines like Sumeet or Preeti going to do the job via their Osterizer type "cutting" blades, powerful though they are.

Both types of Indian machines, the stone grinder and the cutting blades, work best, or work only, in a very liquid environment suitable for batters but not MASA DOUGH.

#89 rancho_gordo

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Posted 07 April 2008 - 03:46 PM

Both types of Indian machines, the stone grinder and the cutting blades, work best, or work only, in a very liquid environment suitable for batters but not MASA DOUGH.

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Well, the last time I did it worked very well. And they are actively marketing this thing to Mexican restaurants as a masa grinder.
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#90 caroline

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 01:47 PM

I've had an Indian wet grinder on my list for the next time I'm in the US so I'd love to hear more about their prowess or not with maize. I'm not sure why maize would be heavier. We are talking about wet maize here. Steve, are you saying that it was when you prepared the nixtamal in a certain way that you got a good masa? ie that it was the nixtamalization not the grinding that made the difference?

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