122 replies to this topic

[Robinjw13]

Thanks Helen, Dave. Glad to know I wasn't imagining it.

Also, that ties in: kabu harvested from under fleece tasted excellent, although I have no un-fleeced crop to compare it with. Daikon in the open was harvested & tasted excellent, although a few hole-borers were present; I have a crop under fleece due to be harvested in a few weeks & will try and detect differences (if any).

Has any scientific work been done to establish exactly what the plant is doing and what substances are being produced?

[Kiem Hwa]

Time for a garden update....

My Camellia sinesis are getting bigger and fast!
The tallest one (furthest to the left) is just over 12-inches tall, the slightly shorter one (right) is 9-inches tall.
Also some seeds i picked up from various Camellia plants in Japan are growing too! (small one in the front with slightly different shape and more shiny leaves)



I have soybeans now! I planted 3 batches at delayed time intervals so i could have an incremental crop... the oldest ones are now over 2-feet tall and have some developing soybeans!



I have Kabocha growing now too! This crazy vine is growing all over the back yard and since they started growing, the adjacent Shiso havent grown much....
The largest Kabocha is now almost 5-inches in diameter


The second largest is about 3.5-inches diameter


The third largest is about 1-inch in diameter.

There are also several ones smaller than this last one.


Finally, my Yuzu seedlings are growing well too. The tallest on has reached almost 12-inches in height.


My question about the Yuzu tree....this is just grown from seeds. (I also have Key Lime and Kaffir Lime seedlings about the height of the shorter Yuzu seedlings). Since these are grown from seed and are not grafted to a root stock, will they not grow as tall? Will they be weaker? Will they not be able to produce as much fruit? Should I give them more special care to ensure a long life and good fruit production from them (pruning frequently, etc..)??? Any advice?

[Sencha]

Those plants are looking pretty good! I hope the food will be wonderful.

How long did it take for the soybeans and kabocha to get to that point? I've thought of growing some and would like to once I have the chance. Especially kabocha. That sounds so good!

[Kiem Hwa]

How long did it take for the soybeans and kabocha to get to that point? I've thought of growing some and would like to once I have the chance. Especially kabocha. That sounds so good!

The soybean package says it takes about 100 days to get mature soybeans. As for the kabocha, Im not sure how old the plant is, MIL thinks its less then a month old.

[BarbaraY]

Helen, on Jan. 23 you mentioned growing burdock in plastic bags. Do you have any information on this method?

[helenjp]

I haven't done it myself, but my students tell me that they have grown burdock in plastic bags, or more conveniently, plastic garbage bins. They said they used ordinary soil, but I imagine they put some fairly free-draining stuff down the bottom, especially as the burdock would take a while to extend its root right down to the bottom part of the container. If you pick a short-growing cultivar, it will be easier to grow, and will mature faster too.

[BarbaraY]

I haven't done it myself, but my students tell me that they have grown burdock in plastic bags, or more conveniently, plastic garbage bins. They said they used ordinary soil, but I imagine they put some fairly free-draining stuff down the bottom, especially as the burdock would take a while to extend its root right down to the bottom part of the container. If you pick a short-growing cultivar, it will be easier to grow, and will mature faster too.

That sounds easy enough. The only seeds I have found available to me are Takinogawa and Watanabe. Since the Watanabe is supposed to be shorter, I may give it a try. My soil has a layer of hardpan about 2 feet down and I'm not about to try to dig through it but it seems that the bag method would work.

[Kiem Hwa]

Garden Update!!!

My first set of Soybeans have matured!!



On the down-side, those 3 kabochas I mentioned earlier.... The plant caught some bad powdery mildew and kind of died out.... I picked these anyways, but I dont know yet if they were mature enough yet.... Ill let them sit around for awhile before I cut them up.

I have no idea why one seems to be an albino

[SuzySushi]

Garden Update!!!

My first set of Soybeans have matured!!  



On the down-side, those 3 kabochas I mentioned earlier.... The plant caught some bad powdery mildew and kind of died out.... I picked these anyways, but I dont know yet if they were mature enough yet.... Ill let them sit around for awhile before I cut them up.

I have no idea why one seems to be an albino

Oooh!!!! I'm impressed!!! I've temporarily given up on my lanai gardening... I've been too busy working to spend the time to garden, and I swear my husband must be giving the plants the evil eye (whenever he's around them, they wither and die)!

Last year I grew a nice crop of regular and Thai basil, rosemary, thyme, nasturtiums, and some mâche lettuce (well, enough for one salad). Now, everything has died out but the rosemary and a chunk of ginger I planted but have yet to harvest. The shiso I tried last year never germinated...

I'm hoping *some day* to have some fine shiso plants, a small Kaffir lime, and more basil. You started your Kaffir lime from seeds? Where did you get them?

[torakris]

congratulations!
those edamame look especially gorgeous

[Kiem Hwa]

I'm hoping *some day* to have some fine shiso plants, a small Kaffir lime, and more basil. You started your Kaffir lime from seeds? Where did you get them?

I got all my citrus seeds (yuzu, kaffir lime, key lime) from the same place:
http://www.tradewind...t.com/order.htm

I had a really high germination rate...maybe it was even 100%? So far one Kaffir lime has died and one looks sickly, though the other ones look fine. The only thing about growing citrus from seed is, I dunno if they will be able to get very big or how healthy they will be later on, since most citrus grown commercially are grafted to a much stronger root stock.

[SuzySushi]

I got all my citrus seeds (yuzu, kaffir lime, key lime) from the same place:
http://www.tradewind...t.com/order.htm

I had a really high germination rate...maybe it was even 100%?  So far one Kaffir lime has died and one looks sickly, though the other ones look fine.  The only thing about growing citrus from seed is, I dunno if they will be able to get very big or how healthy they will be later on, since most citrus grown commercially are grafted to a much stronger root stock.

Bookmarked! I thought we're not allowed to mail seeds from the mainland to Hawaii... or does that just apply to individuals (not commerical nurseries)?

[Kiem Hwa]

I got all my citrus seeds (yuzu, kaffir lime, key lime) from the same place:
http://www.tradewind...t.com/order.htm

I had a really high germination rate...maybe it was even 100%?  So far one Kaffir lime has died and one looks sickly, though the other ones look fine.  The only thing about growing citrus from seed is, I dunno if they will be able to get very big or how healthy they will be later on, since most citrus grown commercially are grafted to a much stronger root stock.

Bookmarked! I thought we're not allowed to mail seeds from the mainland to Hawaii... or does that just apply to individuals (not commerical nurseries)?

I dont know why we wouldnt be able to mail seeds? Seeds are much less likely to be containing rotten things like coqui frogs, bugs, lizards, etc. Probably you cant mail any live plants to Hawaii unless you are a nursery.

[jeniac42]

Well, I think I might be in the same house all year this year, so I can actually have a garden. I'd love to grow some Japanese vegetables and herbs, because they're expensive to buy in quantity (and I'd like to make pickles out of a lot of them) and because it would be satisfying.

My yard is quite small and the neighbors use part of it for their garden bed, so I'd likely have to grow things in containers. I have a balcony that's probably at least 80% shade and probably a little piece of sunny backyard - I'll have to observe the sun patterns next time I'm home all day.

I was thinking of buying the tsukemono pickling garden from Kitazawa Seed, as well as some red and green shiso. The vegetables included are pickling melon?, takana mustard, oblong eggplant, cucumber, daikon, turnip, and cabbage.

I haven't done any gardening in a long, long time and fear I might be totally inept. I hope to enlist my father's assistance - he's got quite a green thumb, and recently lost his job of 30+ years, so I hope it will give him something else to think about.

I plan to grow the shiso in containers in as sunny a spot as I can find. Perhaps if I use "window boxes" hanging from the edge of the roofed balcony, they will get enough sun? I think everything will have to go in containers, though. I've never had good luck growing tomatoes in containers, so hopefully these veggies will fare better.

[helenjp]

Shiso will be happy in the sunshine, but make sure the soil is not so light that it dries out instantly...in my experience, shiso that suffers drought-stress seems to be much more susceptible to bugs!

I've had great success with eggplant in containers - being smaller than western varieties, it matures before diseases and bugs get a hold, very rewarding!

The takana and daikon I would be inclined to leave till a fall sowing, as they will be just dying to flower and set seed if you sow them in spring...but if you sow the takana fairly early, you could probably get a crop before summer.

Check GardenWeb (Asian vegetables) too, for more specific advice for gardening in your particular area.

[jeniac42]

Thanks for the thoughts. I wondered if I might get in an early spring sowing for the takana and daikon - we've been having a really mild winter so I suspect the last frost will come early this year, and it might be worth chancing it. The daikon variety was advertised as "All Season"; I wonder if that matters?

I've been poking through GardenWeb and feeling slightly overwhelmed, but I did get a couple of recommendations for books to look into. I'll let you all know how the experiments go.

[Cadbury]

Helen, I know this is off topic, but do you happen to know the scientific/botanical name for kinmokusei? It used to grow everywhere near Nakayamadera. My googling hasn't come up with a definitive answer.

Thanks.

[helenjp]

osmanthus fragrans var. aurantiacus

The straight osmanthus fragrans is a less-fragrant WHITE flowered variety.

Apparently they don't set seed and must be cultivated from cuttings...at least, I saw that glancing through a book in a shop, didn't read the whole chapter to find out exactly what the situation was.

[Cadbury]

osmanthus fragrans var. aurantiacus

The straight osmanthus fragrans is a less-fragrant WHITE flowered variety.

Apparently they don't set seed and must be cultivated from cuttings...at least, I saw that  glancing through a book in a shop, didn't read the whole chapter to find out exactly what the situation was.

Thank you.

[Hiroyuki]

I don't think this is the right thread to post this question, but I can't think of any other good one, so I decided to post it here.

How poisonous is tomatin, which is contained in tomato leaves and stems? Some Japanese people eat "wakime" of tomato plants, and I assume that eating them in small quantities does not do any harm to the people eating them. Am I right, Helen?

[helenjp]

From a seed company's website, regarding tomatoes.

"" Toxic Part:  Leaves, vines, and sprouts.

  Symptoms:    Headache, stomach pain, vomiting,
                diarrhea, subnormal temperature,
                and circulatory and respiratory
                depression.""

Tomatine may not be the only alkaloid produced in tomato shoots - I'm not sure. I assume that people are hoping that the axillary shoots contain less alkaloids than mature stems and leaves...but it seems risky. After all, alkaloid contents are notoriously variable (depending on things such as the time of day, for example); and some people are more susceptible than others, especially children.

Alkaloids tend to act on the central nervous system, which is not a good idea! If you're lucky, they'll make you vomit, if not, they just stop your heart and breathing...

However, I ate several nightshade berries when I was a toddler, before kindly offering my mother some, and I lived to tell the tale. Very likely a few very immature tomato shoots won't kill you, but I don't care to experiment!

[Hiroyuki]

Thanks, Helen, for your quick answer. I will copy and paste it to the Gardening thread in the General Food Topics Forums later if you don't mind.

[helenjp]

Chili seeds and seedlings : the current issue of "Yasai-batake" magazine (summer 2006) has a special on chilis. It said that there were details on where to buy seedlings, though a very quick glance didn't reveal that info to me!

Sansho: I was thinking...probably the main reason why it is hard to grow is that it is a slow-growing tree, and we are inclined to over-harvest it. I read somewhere that you should not pick from it yourself the first year, and not give any to friends for 3 years! As far as the plant is concerned, if we pick the leaves the way we pick parsley, it's like using 10,000 notes like paper tissues.

[Robinjw13]

Hmm, my sansho was sown in September 2005 and emerged 8 months later! Those outside (3 germinated) are about 1cm tall but healthy green; those brought into the greenhouse to germinate are taller (7cm) and with more leaves, but when transplanted outside leaves appear to have been scorched by the sun. Too early to say if these will grow into a tree.

Large (1 mb+) picture at Sansho germinated outside

[helenjp]

Good luck! If your sansho are grown from seed, you've got a good chance. Most sansho in Japan are twigs put into the ground and left to develop roots - of course, these are never as robust as seedling-grown roots, and sansho is particularly prone to root-damage if conditions are too wet or too dry. That sansho seedling photo was beautiful!

[Hiroyuki]

Robinjw13, I did a little googling of the Japanese terms most commonly used for companion planting, but found nothing of interest to you.

Apart from re-runs of English material on companion plants old roses, there doesn't seem to be a good understanding of what we know as companion planting.

One Japanese term used is so close to the word "symbiosis" that readers think of it as just another word for environmentally friendly agriculture which doesn't damage natural earth structure or disturb local insects etc.

Alternatively, the other word used is "mixed cropping", which only refers to planting crops with different growth heights/sunlight needs/growth periods.

I googled the various terms for each of your proposed crops, with terms for germination etc., and found no mention of plants which actively protect or promote the growth of other nearby plants.

As far as germination goes, I think the interest in natural agricultural circles here in Japan is focused more on microbe activity than on the effect of nearby plants.

Companion plants are translated into kyouei sakumotsu 共栄作物. Now I need to learn more about them!

[Robinjw13]

Thank you for your encouragement Helenjp, and I certainly had no idea that many of the sansho trees in Japan are propagated vegetatively. Incidentally I've had only about 20 seeds germinate out of a few hundred sown (see my avatar for these!).

Kyouei sakumotsu. I'll add it to my list of about 20 Japanese words! Since that 2005 post I've visted some natural agriculture farms in Japan and saw a little that confirms Helenjp's comments. A common combination seems to be winter wheat followed by edamame/daizu; one farmer said this mix left no need for fertilser nor fallow period. The total length of the roots of one wheat plant is apparently several thousand kilometres! A very fine mesh of roots that is very good for the soil.

[JasonWV]

I just Wanna bump this becuse I have two gardens ones like 50 meters by 30 Meter and the other one is 5 x 6 yards(My Curry Paste Garden) I was wondering what would be good items to put in to the bigger one to get a feel for japanese plants?

[helenjp]

JasonWW, where do you live (in terms of climate), and what's your gardening environment like? How much sunshine per day, and are your plots garden squares, or shallow containers?)

If you can buy seedlings, Japanese eggplant would be a good thing to try. Unless you have a very long growing season, it would be a bit late to start them from seed now.

How about eda-mame - soybeans grown for eating while the pods are green, like green peas?

[JasonWV]

Sorry for being so late well climate is Zone 6 here. I get many diffrent amounts of sunshine pending on which garden. I have about 5 gardens largest is about a 30 meter X 40 meter patch others are around 4 feet X 10 feet and I have a "Garden" which wraps around my house I use for lettuce and salad greens.