77 replies to this topic

[HKDave]

This is really bad.  What a complete and obvious crapshoot.  And BTW some of these don't even make their criteria as a meal there would be over the budget.

I agree. This is completely, totally, absurdly random. Any lingering respect I might have had for Michelin's process just got flushed down the toilet.

aprilmei, were there any Bibs Gourmands in Macau?

[Sher.eats]

Hrtz8w, Bo Innovation has moved to Wan Chai. I'm actually in that episode (eating at Bo) - but it's "blink and you miss it". Even my mother had a hard time seeing me!

Wow, aprilmei! I gotta record that episode on my DVD and go through it frame by frame to see if I can guess which one you are!

One restaurant I think should be on the list but which isn't is Yin Yang. It used to be a private kitchen in Yuen Long (called Cuisine X at the time) - very small and extremely difficult to find, but it's since moved to a really great space in a heritage building. Funnily enough, it's very close to Bo Innovation.

Is this one in Yuen Long also featured in a TV food show? I remember seeing a Chinese woman running her private kitchen/dining room (only 1 round table) in a small village near Yuen Long. What impressed me was that she made her own baking oven to make char siu with 2 big terracata flower pots (one upside down on top of another).

yup that's her. here's the link to her new place http://www.openrice....tm?shopid=22106 .

her terracotta oven was moved over too, a chickens roasts in <10 min w perfect crisp skin. dinner is 10 courses at $6xx per person but for 8ppl, lunch is $3xx per person 4 courses.

she's been getting slack from so called critics who says her portions are too small blah blah, so if you call ahead and chat a bit that way she knows ur a foodie =)

[Sher.eats]

yup Yue Kee, they have their own geese farm in the mainlands. The geese are roasted in the premise's charcoal "pits". If you call in advance you can have a just roasted geese on your table as you arrive and sit down, when the tea has been ordered and poured the goose will have rested enough for carving. Yes carving not chopping because more juices stay inside as supposed to "chopping" which is more violent...The skin is of course much crispier (like a crouton as supposed to a chip) than Central's Yung Kee and you get to suck on the rib bones which Yung has removed for you...I can give you a link to a local foodie website with much more info if I'm allowed...

Ah.... Sham Tseng. Of course! My last visit there was in 87 when I still lived in Hong Kong. At that time, those were "dai pai dong" (food vendors under a steel canopy but no permanent building structure). Is "Yue Kee" the same still? Or they have their own restaurant store front now?

Would you please provide the link? I can read Chinese too. Thank you!

Different places for different food...

Sham Tseng for roast goose
Sai Kung / Lei Yue Moon / Aberdeen for live seafood
Shatin / Tai Wai for pigeon
Lau Fau Shan for oyster
Yuen Long for wife cake
Causeway Bay for ginger milk custard

Yue now has a "building" for FOH but the back kitch is tge same, link http://www.openrice....htm?shopid=4171

for the best seafood one now has to take a boat to Po Toi Island , 40 min by boat from Stanley. There is only 1 restaurant (owned by a friend of our cousin, i'm not biased really!) that you call like a week before you go, tell them what seafood you want, they will catch it or buy it from fisherboats still at sea so you know its fresh, then the have a cage-thing in the water (the resto is right on the beach) where they keep the seafood alive... its an excellent day trip too as you can hike the whole island (quite hilly) in around 2 hours, "fresh sea wind" like no where else haha.

Shatin pigeon sadly no longer can deep fry birds killed just 5 min before as gov. policy banned it, poultry's are now centrally slaughtered somewhere. the taste difference is apparent, so tey no longer have an advantage over other restos

Lau fau shan oysters are still on!

yes wife cakes at yuen long, its quite a foodie town now, i had to go 3 times to try everything worth trying

Ginger milk custard at Yee Shung right? they have chains everywhere now so its convenient. I prefer Australian Milk Company at Jordan though

[HKDave]

for the best seafood one now has to take a boat to Po Toi Island , 40 min by boat from Stanley. There is only 1 restaurant (owned by a friend of our cousin, i'm not biased really!) ...

Is that still 'Ming Kee'? It's been years since I've been there but I loved that place... the ultimate junk trip destination!

[Sher.eats]

Okay, here's the list of Bibs Gourmands - it's very strange - completely random. Why are some of these places on the list? And why are many others NOT on the list?

Cafe Siam
NO. hardly thai at all at ripoff prices.

Cheung Kee
no. small beijing resto, much better choices out there

Crystal Jade La Mian Xiao Long Bao
yes, not totally authentic but good food

Farm House
YES, almond pig lung soup and glutenous rice stuffed chicken wings

Golden Bauhinia
?? which one is this?

Gunga din's
no. much better indian elsewhere

Ho Hung Kee
NO ugh hate this shop, their wontons are crap. no idea why tourists buy it

Jashan
yes. one of the "fine dining" indians.

Kin's Kitchen
YES well done michelin

Lei Garden in Elements
no. they've already given the other Lei's stars, there are other excellent Canto restos and Lei isn't cheap.

Lei Garden in Mongkok
no. same as above

Le Soleil
no. excellent viet choices elsewhere, high price goes to hotel rent.

Lian
yes. ok its not cheap but foods good.

Luk Yu Tea House
YES. but where's Lin Heung...

Naozen
no. this is the ONLY jap on the list (Bibs or *s) ............

1/5 Nuevo
yes. good food but Tapeo is better

Tandoor
yes. just for the naans....

Tasty (Happy Valley)
yes. decent wonton congee and noodles

Tasty (Hung Hom)
no. chain of happy valley no way the quality

Tasty (IFC)
no. chain of happy valley no way the quality and double the price

West Villa
yes. good canto chinese here

Yee Tung Heen
no. its not cheap and its not the best for its price either.

Ye Shanghai
yes. not cheap but one of the best shanghainess

Yunyan
YES. excellent choice for sichuan (apart from Da Pin Huo)

hmmmmmmm they should stick to reviewing French restos.

[Sher.eats]

for the best seafood one now has to take a boat to Po Toi Island , 40 min by boat from Stanley. There is only 1 restaurant (owned by a friend of our cousin, i'm not biased really!) ...

Is that still 'Ming Kee'? It's been years since I've been there but I loved that place... the ultimate junk trip destination!

yup!!

[aprilmei]

Hrtz8w, Bo Innovation has moved to Wan Chai. I'm actually in that episode (eating at Bo) - but it's "blink and you miss it". Even my mother had a hard time seeing me!

Wow, aprilmei! I gotta record that episode on my DVD and go through it frame by frame to see if I can guess which one you are!

One restaurant I think should be on the list but which isn't is Yin Yang. It used to be a private kitchen in Yuen Long (called Cuisine X at the time) - very small and extremely difficult to find, but it's since moved to a really great space in a heritage building. Funnily enough, it's very close to Bo Innovation.

Is this one in Yuen Long also featured in a TV food show? I remember seeing a Chinese woman running her private kitchen/dining room (only 1 round table) in a small village near Yuen Long. What impressed me was that she made her own baking oven to make char siu with 2 big terracata flower pots (one upside down on top of another).

yup that's her. here's the link to her new place http://www.openrice....tm?shopid=22106 .

her terracotta oven was moved over too, a chickens roasts in <10 min w perfect crisp skin. dinner is 10 courses at $6xx per person but for 8ppl, lunch is $3xx per person 4 courses.

she's been getting slack from so called critics who says her portions are too small blah blah, so if you call ahead and chat a bit that way she knows ur a foodie =)

Margaret's chicken is amazing. She serves it whole - so you tear it apart, rather than cut it (so it doesn't lose its juices). Her suckling pig is also excellent.
Sher, I think you said earlier you thought Yin Yang opened too late for Michelin - but I checked, it opened in April - that's plenty of time.

re: Golden Bauhinia, I think that's in HKCEC.

[Sher.eats]

Hrtz8w, Bo Innovation has moved to Wan Chai. I'm actually in that episode (eating at Bo) - but it's "blink and you miss it". Even my mother had a hard time seeing me!

Wow, aprilmei! I gotta record that episode on my DVD and go through it frame by frame to see if I can guess which one you are!

One restaurant I think should be on the list but which isn't is Yin Yang. It used to be a private kitchen in Yuen Long (called Cuisine X at the time) - very small and extremely difficult to find, but it's since moved to a really great space in a heritage building. Funnily enough, it's very close to Bo Innovation.

Is this one in Yuen Long also featured in a TV food show? I remember seeing a Chinese woman running her private kitchen/dining room (only 1 round table) in a small village near Yuen Long. What impressed me was that she made her own baking oven to make char siu with 2 big terracata flower pots (one upside down on top of another).

yup that's her. here's the link to her new place http://www.openrice....tm?shopid=22106 .

her terracotta oven was moved over too, a chickens roasts in <10 min w perfect crisp skin. dinner is 10 courses at $6xx per person but for 8ppl, lunch is $3xx per person 4 courses.

she's been getting slack from so called critics who says her portions are too small blah blah, so if you call ahead and chat a bit that way she knows ur a foodie =)

Margaret's chicken is amazing. She serves it whole - so you tear it apart, rather than cut it (so it doesn't lose its juices). Her suckling pig is also excellent.
Sher, I think you said earlier you thought Yin Yang opened too late for Michelin - but I checked, it opened in April - that's plenty of time.

re: Golden Bauhinia, I think that's in HKCEC.

but michelin came to l'atelier in late feb to april...do you have the book yet, are they even listed?

ah this is Bauhinia? http://www.openrice....tm?shopid=14106 any ideas why michelin thinks it's special?

[aprilmei]

They were testing Hong Kong restaurants at least as late as September. They might have tested Atelier much earlier but they still had plenty of time to try some of the newer places.

[Sher.eats]

They were testing Hong Kong restaurants at least as late as September. They might have tested Atelier much earlier but they still had plenty of time to try some of the newer places.

ah right, so do you have the book yet? are they listed?

i ordered mine from PageOne and am collecting it tmr.

[HKDave]

Yunyan
YES. excellent choice for sichuan (apart from Da Pin Huo)

Try San Xi Lou (Coda Plaza), and you may change your mind...

[Sher.eats]

Yunyan
YES. excellent choice for sichuan (apart from Da Pin Huo)

Try San Xi Lou (Coda Plaza), and you may change your mind...

Yes that too! haha

Do we on eG China have a "definite best" thread for HK like on the NY forums?

The best cha siu, dim sum, wonton etc...

Edited by Sher.eats, 03 December 2008 - 11:03 PM.

[hzrt8w]

Wow... lots of gems info. Great timing for my 2009 HK trip. But still a long way to go (or long time to wait?)...

Forget about Michelin. We can start our own guide right here on:

Best for roast pork
Best for char siu
Best for roast goose
Best for wonton
Best for beef brisket
Best for beef balls
Best for fish balls
Best for pigeons
Best for dried abalone
Best for ....

The list goes on and on...

[Sher.eats]

Wow...  lots of gems info.  Great timing for my 2009 HK trip.      But still a long way to go (or long time to wait?)...

Forget about Michelin.  We can start our own guide right here on:

Best for roast pork
Best for char siu
Best for roast goose
Best for wonton
Best for beef brisket
Best for beef balls
Best for fish balls
Best for pigeons
Best for dried abalone
Best for ....

The list goes on and on...

I'll start! As this is for absolute best the locations won't be very convenient...

Best for beef brisket
1) 群記清湯腩 at Tai Po, the have their own cow farms in the mainland and thus have good availability of the best cuts: the deckle of the brisket, the 爽腩 which I'm sure what it is in english but it's 2 thick pieces of tendon sandwiching a piece of skirt like meat, the cheeks (it melts in the mouth), the shank etc. The broth is not oil-free but is very rich.

2) Kau Kee at Central, I think most ppl know about this already. The food is still very good but not as excellent as the pre-tourist crowd.

Best for beef balls
德發牛肉丸 in Tsim Sha Tsui, they used beef brisket and short ribs (local call it han-lam) as well as mixing in dried orange peel. The balls are squeezed with many internal layers which gives an excellent "bouncy" texture.

Best for fish balls
It used to be Shan Loon Tse Kee but the quality has severely dropped. I've tried many other places like Cheung Chau Island but don't find much difference compared to the major chains

Best for roast pork
Lung Kee at Central. There are quite a few places that do a nice roast pork but Lung is consistently good. Make sure you eat it at around 11am when it's freshly roasted and ask for the 7th-9th rib. A whole "rib" costs $60 you get the whole "arc" of rib eye, short rib, spare ribs to brisket. 永合隆飯店 at Mong Kok is equally good.

The best roast suckling pig is at Kimberly where they roast the suckling pig stuffed with glutenous rice. Just look at the pics.

Best for char siu
再興燒臘飯店 at Wan Chai has the best but its quality has a high variance. Ideally you go at 11am or 5pm when the cha sius are freshly roasted and you choose the upper neck meat parts with a "beads" of meat, fat, meat, fat...

龍門大酒樓 has good cha siu too with a nice charcoal aroma. You don't have to go into the restaurant, they have a takeaway stall on the ground floor.

Best for wonton
Some people swear by 麥奀雲 in Central but I don't think it's that good. My favorite is 劉森記麵家 in Sum Shui Po (also have the dried prawn roe noodles tossed with lard).


more to come...

Edited by Sher.eats, 03 December 2008 - 11:55 PM.

[SpikeHK]

My 2 cents ...

I think people are jumping the gun here, reviewing a book that they haven't even read. We've only seen the very well publicized list of those restaurants that they've deemed the best. I may be wrong, but once the book comes out tomorrow, perhaps the reviews of the other 250 restaurants in it may shed some light on why those spots did not receive stars. But at the end of the day, we're talking just 12 peoples' opinions (even if those 12 people have presumably educated and experienced palates). You can't even get 12 people to agree on El Bulli, you're gonna get universal agreement on the best restaurants in Hong Kong?

And I'm sorry, I don't mean to offend anyone, but the notion that Caucasians are unable to judge relative quality of Chinese food in different restaurants is just silly. With the exception of a relatively few prominent acquired tastes (in every cuisine, not just Chinese), good food is good food, a well prepared dish is a well prepared dish, fresh ingredients are fresh ingredients.

Anyway, odds are strong that when the guide comes out, the starred restaurants will get booked solid for the next six months, leaving us free to enjoy our favorite local spots in peace (or what passes for peace in a noisy hole in the wall). If I can't get into Lung King Heen, I'll live, but the line at Joy Hing is already long enough, we don't need a thousand tourists queuing for stool.

[SpikeHK]

Well, I've picked up the book and spent a bit of time flipping through it while eating lunch.

Initial thoughts - they don't say anything critical about any of the restaurants they review, so I can't really gauge why they'd star one over another.

The fact that each restaurant is limited to a single page and every page is in two languages severely limits the size of the review.

Some of the English in the reviews seems ever so slightly off. On Mortons: "But beware: portions are massive and two of you may care to share a double Porterhouse steak!" "may care to share"?

Goes hand in hand with the fact that places that start with "The" are alphabetized under "T".

Of the places that they review that I've been to, I can't disagree with any.

Restaurants at Intercon, Hyatt, Peninsula, etc. are reviewed.

I can of course thing of several places that should have been here, starred or not, but aren't. The Pawn (not that I especially like it but it is a notable spot), Sushi Hiro, Minar ....

Very little in places off the beaten tourist path of north HK island and TST.

I've been to roughly 40 or 50 of the places reviewed and thought well of almost all of them (I didn't care for Wasabisabi) and I see a number of places that I have yet to try that seem appealing.

[prasantrin]

Some of the English in the reviews seems ever so slightly off.  On Mortons:  "But beware:  portions are massive and two of you may care to share a double Porterhouse steak!"  "may care to share"?

I don't think there's anything wrong with it. It's just a bit formal.

[Prawncrackers]

The best roast suckling pig is at Kimberly where they roast the suckling pig stuffed with glutenous rice. Just look at the pics.

It's not often i'm reduced to grunting noises but those pictures have done just that!! Thanks.

[Sher.eats]

The best roast suckling pig is at Kimberly where they roast the suckling pig stuffed with glutenous rice. Just look at the pics.

It's not often i'm reduced to grunting noises but those pictures have done just that!! Thanks.

hahaha

it's $800 for the whole pig, they recommend serving one to about 8 (desperately hungry) to 12 people. we should organize an eG tasting.

[Sher.eats]

And I'm sorry, I don't mean to offend anyone, but the notion that Caucasians are unable to judge relative quality of Chinese food in different restaurants is just silly.  With the exception of a relatively few prominent acquired tastes (in every cuisine, not just Chinese), good food is good food, a well prepared dish is a well prepared dish, fresh ingredients are fresh ingredients. 

ummm one requires a bit of experience/knowledge to appreciate/critize a dish no? I'm pretty sure some Frenchmen have considered "tourists" to not understand their cuisine? My previous argument was that given time the Michelin people will give "better" or "closer to a local's perpspective" ratings, I don't see how you disagree with this?

[hzrt8w]

it's $800 for the whole pig, they recommend serving one to about 8 (desperately hungry) to 12 people. we should organize an eG tasting.

Would you wait for me????? Oct or Nov 2009. Promise to be there...

[hzrt8w]

Best for beef balls
德發牛肉丸 in Tsim Sha Tsui, they used beef brisket and short ribs (local call it han-lam) as well as mixing in dried orange peel. The balls are squeezed with many internal layers which gives an excellent "bouncy" texture.

Yeah... triggered my memory.

I was in Hong Kong Nov 2007. Went to 德發. Right the first morning off the 16-hour plane ride. Haifong "indefinitely" temporary food market. Thanks for HKDave and Aprilmei. Orange bowl. Yellow spoon. Got it! Hole in the wall. But great beef balls.

I think their business name has been around for a long time. I used to live in the living quarter for workers in "Kowloon Godown", which was located exactly at where the temporary market is now. The living quarter was torn down in the 70's. The beef-ball dai pei dong used to be located at Peking Road crossing Canton Road (present day - a business building). I walked by their "dong" almost everyday in the 60's. I still remember the "bang, bang" noise from the machine hammering on the ground beef, and how the workers use bare hand to squeeze the ground beef on one hand and use a ceremic spoon on the other hand to scoop up the beef balls, give them a twise to separate, then lay the beefballs on a big round plate in a spiral pattern for them to dry. They probably still do it the same way. I believe it is the same "dong".

[Sher.eats]

it's $800 for the whole pig, they recommend serving one to about 8 (desperately hungry) to 12 people. we should organize an eG tasting.

Would you wait for me????? Oct or Nov 2009. Promise to be there...

haha sure!

btw have there been eG "eating trips" in HK?

[Sher.eats]

Well, I've picked up the book and spent a bit of time flipping through it while eating lunch. 

Initial thoughts - they don't say anything critical about any of the restaurants they review, so I can't really gauge why they'd star one over another. 

The fact that each restaurant is limited to a single page and every page is in two languages severely limits the size of the review.

Some of the English in the reviews seems ever so slightly off.  On Mortons:  "But beware:  portions are massive and two of you may care to share a double Porterhouse steak!"  "may care to share"?

Goes hand in hand with the fact that places that start with "The" are alphabetized under "T".

Of the places that they review that I've been to, I can't disagree with any. 

Restaurants at Intercon, Hyatt, Peninsula, etc. are reviewed.

I can of course thing of several places that should have been here, starred or not, but aren't.  The Pawn (not that I especially like it but it is a notable spot), Sushi Hiro, Minar ....

Very little in places off the beaten tourist path of north HK island and TST.

I've been to roughly 40 or 50 of the places reviewed and thought well of almost all of them (I didn't care for Wasabisabi) and I see a number of places that I have yet to try that seem appealing.

yeah, less than 100 words per restaurants is not very useful, and the only negative comment is Gaddi's: "celebrates a bygone elegance".

for example, for L'Atelier HK:

"The hallmark colours of red and black are once again evident at this branch of the Robuchon empire. A rexlax salon de the leads on to the main restaurant which is divided into two sections: Le Jardin and L'Atelier. The first is elegant and intimate with views of a roof top garden, the latter gives you a ringside seat at the show kitchen. Construct your own menu from dishes sch as sea urchin in lobster jelly or the beef and foie gras burger"

they had to eat here 9 times to write that? Those who already knew about L'Atlier didn't learn anything and those who didn't know wouldn't know why they got 2 **s.

likewise for Lung King Heen vs Spring Moon

"Translated as 'view of the dragon', it now offers a panorama of Victoria Habour whilst the interior is smart and uncluttered, with hand-embroidered silk, columns and glass screens. Ingredients here are the highest quality - particularl the seafood which is impeccably fresh; all dishes are expertly crafted, nicely balanced and enticingly presented. The serving team is highly professional and describe dishes with great care and obvious pride"

"An elegant and luxirious Cantonese restaurant very much at home at The Peninsula. YOu can admire the tropical hardwoord or the bamboo flower arrangements while sipping tea at the ttea bar. Dine in the restaurant or on the more intimate mezanine floor. Refined servcie oversees authentic dishes loaded with flavour. Different soy sauces are porposed t bring out the flavour of speciliites, which include shark fine or roasted pigeo with osmanthus. "

One for a *** and the other for a 0 star hmm.

Personally it's more a detailed listing than a guide, together with the useful-less-ness of Miele guide I think forums and foodblogs have "replaced" guides?

[hzrt8w]

btw have there been eG "eating trips" in HK?

There have been individuals (myself included) who went to Hong Kong "just to eat" (sort of... ha ha) at different times. But I am not aware of any eG get-together in HK in the past. We can be the pioneers!

Edited by hzrt8w, 08 December 2008 - 12:51 AM.

[Sher.eats]

btw have there been eG "eating trips" in HK?

There have been individuals (myself included) who went to Hong Kong "just to eat" (sort of... ha ha) at different times. But I am not aware of any eG get-together in HK in the past. We can be the pioneers!

haha ok Oct 09 will be the first huh?

[HKDave]

Personally it's more a detailed listing than a guide, together with the useful-less-ness of Miele guide I think forums and foodblogs have "replaced" guides?

Bingo.

Add to this the fact that the restaurant "reviews" in certain HK media are puff pieces where the reviewer is known by, and comped by, the restaurant... gimmie a break. I'd rather read what some blog-ranter has to say than that.

No need to wait until Oct 09 if you want to hit Kimberly for stuffed pig... I'm ready!

[Robert Esser]

Personally it's more a detailed listing than a guide, together with the useful-less-ness of Miele guide I think forums and foodblogs have "replaced" guides?

Bingo.

Add to this the fact that the restaurant "reviews" in certain HK media are puff pieces where the reviewer is known by, and comped by, the restaurant... gimmie a break. I'd rather read what some blog-ranter has to say than that.

No need to wait until Oct 09 if you want to hit Kimberly for stuffed pig... I'm ready!

HKD - We'll go, too. I saw that picture and was right keen. Count us in for 3. Call me.

[hzrt8w]

Please have a round 2, or round 3, or round 4 in Oct/Nov 09 with me. I can't eat a whole piggy by myself...

[Sher.eats]

Personally it's more a detailed listing than a guide, together with the useful-less-ness of Miele guide I think forums and foodblogs have "replaced" guides?

Bingo.

Add to this the fact that the restaurant "reviews" in certain HK media are puff pieces where the reviewer is known by, and comped by, the restaurant... gimmie a break. I'd rather read what some blog-ranter has to say than that.

No need to wait until Oct 09 if you want to hit Kimberly for stuffed pig... I'm ready!

HKD - We'll go, too. I saw that picture and was right keen. Count us in for 3. Call me.

yay!
1,2 Sher.eats
3 HKDave
4,5,6 Robert Esser

just 4 more!!

Please have a round 2, or round 3, or round 4 in Oct/Nov 09 with me.  I can't eat a whole piggy by myself...   

or you can more forward your trip haha =)