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Demo: Pan Coating Candy


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#1 mrose

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Posted 21 May 2006 - 06:19 PM

I am looking into getting a candy coating pan. I would like to hear people's experiences with them & any tips you could give me in their usage. Thanks
Mark
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#2 Kerry Beal

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Posted 21 May 2006 - 06:49 PM

I am looking into getting a candy coating pan. I would like to hear people's experiences with them & any tips you could give me in their usage. Thanks

View Post

I have the french unit that goes on the front of the kitchen aid that I bought through Beryls and have been experimenting with it recently. I have also just picked up a used Stokes pan off e-bay. It is about 15 inches in diameter. I haven't started testing it out yet.

I took the panning course offered by the PMCA/NCA that was held in Madison, WI last fall. They taught us chocolate panning, sucrose panning, dextrose panning and panning with various sugarless products. My interest is mainly in chocolate panning.

To pan with chocolate you need to provide cool dry air while applying the chocolate or you can use some dry ice mixed in with the product to provide the cooling. After the product is coated to the required thickness you let it sit over night before polishing and sealing it. Polishing is done by adding small amounts of polish, then drying with cool dry air. Once the product is shiny you apply a food grade shellac in alchohol.

What are you hoping to do with a pan?

#3 mrose

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Posted 21 May 2006 - 07:29 PM

Madison is a great especially in the summer. I lived there for 25 years.
What is the PMCA/NCA & who offered the class? Can you give me more info on it? I am really interested in it.

The unit is the same one I plan to buy. I want it for chocolate panning to use with in the chocolate business.
Mark
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#4 Kerry Beal

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Posted 22 May 2006 - 04:05 AM

Madison is a great especially in the summer.  I lived there for 25 years.
What is the PMCA/NCA  & who offered the class? Can you give me more info on it? I am really interested in it.

The unit is the same one I plan to buy. I want it for chocolate panning to use with in the chocolate business.

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PMCA is the Pennsylvania Manufacturing Confectioners Association and NCA is the National Candy Association. The link to the courses offered this year is here. I don't know when they are going to offer the next panning course, but if you called them I'm sure they could tell you.

If you are getting the unit that fits on the kitchen aid, be aware that you need to have a mixer that turns at a slower speed. The kitchen aid HD (KG25G7X) model that is available in costco in Canada right now does have that slower speed. The 6 quart kitchen aid I have also turns at a slower speed but the coating pan falls out of it. I have tried it in a friends 6 quart and the same thing happened.

Where are you located?

#5 mrose

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Posted 22 May 2006 - 04:32 AM

I live in Michigan now, but I went to school at the U of Wisc.

I plan to use the panning device in a 6 qt Kitchenaid. Is the problem that you can't tighten the pan down enough?

I found the site last night. The classes are a bit expensive. Did you find them a value for the cost? Did you get your $$ worth?
Mark
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#6 Kerry Beal

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Posted 22 May 2006 - 04:50 AM

I live in Michigan now, but I went to school at the U of Wisc.

I plan to use the panning device in a 6 qt Kitchenaid. Is the problem that you can't tighten the pan down enough?

I found the site last night. The classes are a bit expensive. Did you find them a value for the cost? Did you get your $$ worth?

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The problem is that the pan works it's way loose. The tightening of of screw when you put an attachment on the kitchen aid isn't what holds it in place, instead it's the taper on the shaft of the attachment. I spoke with debuyer in france and explained my problem. They apparently have changed the shaft to make it permanently attached to the base of the pan, but that may not change the shaft at all. The unit was made to fit on a european mixer, just happens to fit kitchen aid.

The classes are expensive, especially when you factor in travel. I took it for fun, I don't make my living making chocolate so I can't really comment on value for money. But I did learn a whole bunch of stuff that I wasn't able to find in books anywhere.

Where in Michigan are you? You could come to southern Ontario for a couple of days this summer and I'll show you what I know. You could bring your kitchen aid and see if it works with the unit.

#7 mrose

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Posted 22 May 2006 - 05:19 AM

Kerry

I live in Battle Creek, Southern Mich. Let me figure out what we have going this summer & talk to my wife. I would like to take you up on the offer.

Mark
www.roseconfections.com
Mark
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#8 Kerry Beal

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Posted 22 May 2006 - 06:10 AM

Kerry

I live in Battle Creek, Southern Mich. Let me figure out what we have going this summer & talk to my wife. I would like to take you up on the offer.

Mark
www.roseconfections.com

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Mark,
Nice website! I love the look of the logs. Great use of transfers.

Shouldn't be a lot of trouble to get here from Battle Creek. Just cross at Detroit, come down via London. There are lots of other things to do around here in the summer, for some reason visiting Niagara Falls (the bride's second great disappointment) is popular, checking out the CN tower. You could probably make a vacation out of it.

I'm away sailing in June, working up in Manitoulin the first two weeks of July, then I'm home for the rest of the summer.

PM me when you know if something works for you.

#9 WhiteTruffleGirl

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Posted 22 May 2006 - 06:52 AM

To pan with chocolate you need to provide cool dry air while applying the chocolate or you can use some dry ice mixed in with the product to provide the cooling.  After the product is coated to the required thickness you let it sit over night before polishing and sealing it.  Polishing is done by adding small amounts of polish, then drying with cool dry air.  Once the product is shiny you apply a food grade shellac in alchohol. 



I also have been thinking about buying a panner for a while, but probably won't for a bit. I did some research and found the lowest price for the 'KitchenAid' model (at the time), at this website:

http://pastrytools.f...ting-Maker.html

Kerry, can you describe the method you posted? Or, is this one of those "you've kind of got to see it to understand it sort of things?"

#10 Kerry Beal

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Posted 22 May 2006 - 07:07 AM


To pan with chocolate you need to provide cool dry air while applying the chocolate or you can use some dry ice mixed in with the product to provide the cooling.  After the product is coated to the required thickness you let it sit over night before polishing and sealing it.  Polishing is done by adding small amounts of polish, then drying with cool dry air.  Once the product is shiny you apply a food grade shellac in alchohol. 



I also have been thinking about buying a panner for a while, but probably won't for a bit. I did some research and found the lowest price for the 'KitchenAid' model (at the time), at this website:

http://pastrytools.f...ting-Maker.html

Kerry, can you describe the method you posted? Or, is this one of those "you've kind of got to see it to understand it sort of things?"

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That is a good price. Especially with shipping included.

Describing the method is a bit of a challange. I always find things easier to see than to read about. Like tempering, couldn't figure it out reading about it, sounded too easy or too difficult depending what you read, saw it once, made total sense.

This size pan should be revolving about 25-30 RPM, faster throws it around and chips off the coating. Essentially you are heating the chocolate to 95 to 100 F, drizzling it over the cold product a bit at a time, checking constantly to see if it is coating evenly or getting bumpy, which will determine if it is too cold or warm. Cooling or letting friction heat it a bit if you are not happy with it. Once you have stuff coated a thickly as you want, you put it at room temp overnight. Next day (or more) you put it back in the pan, start it spinning add a very small amount of polish, blow cool air at it until dry, add half as much polish, more cool air, continue with smaller and smaller amounts until the product looks smooth and shiny. Then add a small aliquot of the shellac, let run for 5 minutes, then blow with cool air to evaporate the alchohol.

I have been considering a demo, but I'm not sure how well it will work with stills. You really need to get your hands in there, handle the product and feel the surface to know if you are ready for the next step. In the future I plan to make an education video about chocolate panning, and have been considering importing a batch of the coating pans to sell, but I don't think that will happen in the next 6 months, probably a winter project.

#11 Desiderio

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Posted 23 May 2006 - 05:15 PM

this is very interesting thread , I have been thinking of dragees making for a while , but ofcourse without a candy coating pan would be kinda hard :raz: .
I see Kerry you have said that the attachment for the kitchen aid that you have it doesnt fit properly, now my question is ,is the one that Whitetrufflegirl linked would have the same trouble ,or its made to fit a kitchen aid ?
Its a good investment so would like to be sure it work properly.I also have a friend thats very interested in this so I would like to know more so I can let her know.
Thank you as always for all your great input and advice and patience :raz: .
Vanessa

#12 Kerry Beal

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Posted 23 May 2006 - 06:15 PM

this is very interesting thread , I have been thinking of dragees making for a while , but ofcourse without a candy coating pan would be kinda hard  :raz: .
I see Kerry you have said that the attachment for the kitchen aid that you have it doesnt fit properly, now my question is ,is the one that Whitetrufflegirl linked would have the same trouble ,or its made to fit a kitchen aid ?
Its a good investment so would like to be sure it work properly.I also have a friend thats very interested in this so I would like to know more so I can let her know.
Thank you as always for all your great input and advice and patience  :raz: .

View Post

Vanessa,
It is the same unit that was shown. So in order to make sure it would fit and turn slow enough to make dragees you would have to have the Kitchen Aid Heavy Duty 5 quart mixer. You might be able to get away with the 6 quart but I'm not sure if it is just my dragadiere that doesn't fit properly or if all of them wouldn't. The 6 quart however will turn slowly enough.

#13 mrose

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Posted 23 May 2006 - 07:14 PM

Kerry

You said "This size pan should be revolving about 25-30 RPM, faster throws it around and chips off the coating. Essentially you are heating the chocolate to 95 to 100 F, drizzling it over the cold product a bit at a time"

How come you use chcolate at this temp & not chocolate that is tempered?

Mark
Mark
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#14 Kerry Beal

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Posted 23 May 2006 - 07:22 PM

Kerry

You said "This size pan should be revolving about 25-30 RPM, faster throws it around and chips off the coating. Essentially you are heating the chocolate to 95 to 100 F, drizzling it over the cold product a bit at a time"

How come you use chcolate at this temp & not chocolate that is tempered?

Mark

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The chocolate doesn't require tempering. Makes it quick and easy.

#15 Desiderio

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Posted 23 May 2006 - 11:27 PM

Thank you Kerry for the expalnations , always so patience :biggrin:
Vanessa

#16 mrose

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Posted 28 May 2006 - 05:04 PM

Kerry

You also refer to adding polish, what exactly is this? Where do you get it & also aliquot of the shellac? I assume both of these substances are edible? I just got a panner & hope to have time this next week to try it.

Mark
Mark
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#17 Desiderio

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Posted 28 May 2006 - 05:31 PM

I belive the next stage is using the arabic gum and I think they do a last stage with alchool but not sure how, still need to read better into the dragees making , the coating pan is attempting :rolleyes: .
Vanessa

#18 Kerry Beal

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Posted 28 May 2006 - 05:48 PM

Kerry

You also refer to adding polish, what exactly is this? Where do you get it & also  aliquot of the shellac? I assume both of these substances are edible? I just got a panner & hope to have time this next week to try it.

Mark

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Mark,

The polish and shellac that I have are samples that I was sent after the PMCA last year. The company is centerchem and they make all sorts of confectionary products. Polish is one of a gum arabic solution or a non crystallizing dextrin and corn-syrup formulation. (I copied that from this site). Both the polish and shellac are food grade.

I'm not quite sure where you can get small quantities of these products, but a call to Centerchem at (203) 822- 9800 will tell you or they might send you samples. Just tell them what you want to do with it and they will likely send you the appropriate product. CK sells confectionary glaze which I think is the shellac. CK page 120.

#19 Desiderio

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Posted 28 May 2006 - 08:17 PM

http://www.countryki...roductId=617859
are this as well?
Vanessa

#20 Kerry Beal

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Posted 29 May 2006 - 03:52 AM

http://www.countryki...roductId=617859
are this as well?

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Thanks Vanessa,

I just found the PDF for that CK site. It's great to see the picture. I actually have some of this stuff so I'll try to give it a try and report back in the next few days.

Kerry

#21 Trishiad

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Posted 29 May 2006 - 08:23 AM

Kerry, do you suppose one could pan a ganache center?

#22 cotovelo

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Posted 29 May 2006 - 09:39 AM

Another alternative to the Kitchen Aid model are these from Union Confectionery Machinery www.unionmachinery.com/Product.asp?pid=7792

They have there own variable speed motor and work very well. I used the Kitchen Aid model at my last job and like these much more. They are a bit more expensive but I can produce a lot more with this one. They have three sizes (12", 16". 24"). I got the 16".

By the way....I have panned ganache. I cut with a guitar and pan them...they kind of round out then I hit them with cocoa powder to get truffles. Make sure temperatures of the chocolate and air are cool though or they stick.

Christopher

#23 Kerry Beal

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Posted 29 May 2006 - 01:54 PM

Kerry, do you suppose one could pan a ganache center?

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Looks like Christopher has already answered this. I was going to say that the center would have to be relatively firm and not sticky and that looks like the answer.

I'm going to play with some espresso beans tonight. I'll post the details.

Those union machinary pans end up costing between $1025 and $3250 with motor as I recall, unribbed, about $250 more ribbed. I picked up a nice stokes pan on e-bay for $600, it's 15 inches I think. I haven't started playing with it yet, but I think I'm going to love it.

#24 Desiderio

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Posted 29 May 2006 - 03:32 PM

Exiting :biggrin: , cant wait to see the results.
This definatly opens up more variations for the selling market ,I will check on ebay, maybe later on this year I will buy one if I can sell enough chocolates meanwhile :raz: .
Vanessa

#25 Kerry Beal

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Posted 29 May 2006 - 08:01 PM

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So this is the setup I use for panning. It is a DeBuyer pan attached to a Kitchenaid HD mixer.

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This is the Stokes pan that I purchased on e-bay.

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I put 1/2 lb of espresso beans in the pan.

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I added about 10 pieces of dry ice, turned the mixer on to stir (the lowest speed) and let the pan turn for about 3 minutes.

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Notice that this pan turns counter clockwise, and if the speed is right the beans climb up to about 2 o'clock before falling back down. I drizzle in the chocolate very slowly for espresso beans, about 1 tbsp at a time. Coating almonds or larger objects allows you to add the chocolate much more quickly. The chocolate is at 35 to 37 degrees C (95-100 F).

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If the chocolate is added too quickly you get a lot of doubles. Break them up with your fingers and slow down the addition of chocolate.

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If you have too much dry ice and the chocolate cools too quickly you will get bumpy beans.

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To fix the bumpy beans, either remove some of the dry ice and allow the mass to warm up or leave the ice in and warm it a bit with some careful blasts with the heat gun.

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After heating, notice how much smoother the chocolate is.

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Scoop out the beans and let crystallize overnight at room temperature. Be careful to remove any bits of dry ice as condensation will form on it's surface and wet the chocolate.

Tomorrow the beans can be polished and sealed.

#26 Desiderio

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Posted 29 May 2006 - 08:30 PM

Kerry that's an awesome demo it should have is own space though , maybe they can move it and make a panning demo .
Thank you sooo much for sharing this with us, I am so used to people that into the baking confectionary business dont share anything and keep everything secret and thigh ( lots of the italian bakers /chocolatiers etc for exmples ), I find it always amazing and warming to see professional sharing their technique with others that are passionate about , even if you might never try panning or do other complicated stuff , its good to know and to see just for the knowledge of it.


Thank you
Sincerly
Vanessa

#27 WhiteTruffleGirl

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Posted 30 May 2006 - 02:36 AM

Kerry,

Thanks so much for demonstrating this. Really look forward to seeing to the polishing stage as well. A couple of quick questions if you don't mind...

What's the maximum amount of product you've put in the panner at once? I see for the purposes of this demo you used about a 1/2 pound of espresso beans. What's the capacity tolerance before it just becomes a gunky mess? And about how long did the above process take from beginning to end?

Again, thanks so much. It would have taken me a lot of trial and error on my own to figure this out. You've saved me much time and money. :biggrin:

#28 Kerry Beal

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Posted 30 May 2006 - 04:20 AM

Kerry,

Thanks so much for demonstrating this.  Really look forward to seeing to the polishing stage as well.  A couple of quick questions if you don't mind...

What's the maximum amount of product you've put in the panner at once?  I see for the purposes of this demo you used about a 1/2 pound of espresso beans.  What's the capacity tolerance before it just becomes a gunky mess?  And about how long did the above process take from beginning to end? 

Again, thanks so much.  It would have taken me a lot of trial and error on my own to figure this out.  You've saved me much time and money.  :biggrin:

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The maximum amount is determined by the amount of finished product that will fit in the pan. I can't really tell you by weight. Figure that if you start with almonds you are going to add a nice thick layer of chocolate (at least the way I like them) and that will cause your product to fill the pan. I've put in way too much and had almonds flying out the front. For a very rough rule of thumb, fill to less than half way up the bottom of the pan before you turn it on.

I'll have to do some almonds later today cause hubby is out of them, I'll try to remember to weigh first.

I took me less than an hour start to finish, which includes melting the chocolate, cooling it down 'cause it got too warm (then heating it back up 'cause it got too cold), running everything down to the basement and back again, and cleaning up. The coating pan had a thick layer of chocolate and polish on it, so I took the heat gun to it and gave it a quick scrape out. I also spent a good 5 minutes in my husbands workshop trying to find hearing protection unsucessfully.

3 minutes with dry ice initially to cool down the product, 1-3 minutes per aliquot of chocolate applied for it to harden, 3 minutes or so each time you warm up to smooth out the bumps.

#29 Kerry Beal

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Posted 30 May 2006 - 06:07 PM

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The coffee beans before polishing.

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The polish.

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My hubby made me this blower out of PVC pipe with a fan attached. I put some dry ice in the central part so it can blow cool air. Alternately you could take a small air conditioner and attach piping to it in some way to blow cool dry air.

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Start the beans spinning and add a full dropper full of polish.

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Start blowing the cool air into the beans, reach and a take a handful to see if the beans are dry.

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Next add a half dropper full of polish. Once each aliquot is added check until it is dry. Add half as much each time until the beans are dry and they start to look a shiny.

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Shiny beans.

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Measure out a full dropper of the shellac

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Add the shellac very slowly, over about 2 minutes. Then let it tumble for 5 minutes before applying the cool air to dry off the alchohol.

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Finished coffee beans. A bit lumpy. Total time to polish about 20 minutes.

#30 mrose

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Posted 30 May 2006 - 06:36 PM

Kerry

Thank you for posting the demo. It answered a lot of questions & will save a lot of basic trial and error. It makes me wish the class on panning was being offered this year (esp if it was in Madison again). I'm going to watch out for it.

Mark
Mark
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