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Ideal temp. to get best veggie flavor extraction for soup?

Modernist

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#1 torolover

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 05:03 AM

I have two questions.

 

Anyone know the best exact temperature of water to get the best flavor out of veggies such as carrots, onion, garlic, leeks for SOUP?

 

Second question:  

 

If the stock recipe calls for 2 ounces of thinly sliced veggies( carrots, onions etc) simmered in 2 cups water for 45 min.,  could I cut the simmering time in half if I added 4 ounces of veggies instead of 2 ounces?   I assume more veggies will extract more flavor to the water faster.  Is that correct?

 

For ex. lots of books recommend simmering the water with veggies for 45 min.  If I add twice the amount of veggies, could I cut the cooking time in half to 25 min to get the same flavor extraction as cooking for 45 min in the original recipe?

 

 

I'm asking this because I have made lots of Chicken broth for Ramen that has no other ingredients then water and chicken.  I now want add veggies to the chicken broth to get the veggie flavor and want to know what temperature I should cook it at.

 

Also I'm wondering if I triple the amount of veggies in my recipe, if I can cut the cooking time to 10 min. instead of 45.

 

Thanks!


Edited by torolover, 06 April 2014 - 06:13 AM.


#2 FeChef

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 05:47 AM

I would go with 185F for double the recipe time. You can always add more water or make a concentrated stock instead of broth. Obviously apples to oranges, but for example when i make pork stock i cook it down to where its double or triple concentrated. Then filter and chill and remove the top fat layer and reheat the gelatin and pour into ice cube trays and freeze. I can then use those cubes as is for a really intense dish or add a cup of water or vegatable stock for a really flavorful pork stock.

 

Also, it helps to fine chop or shred the vegetables so you extraxt the most flavor, and would most likely cut your time down, but i would still cook it down further.


Edited by FeChef, 06 April 2014 - 05:50 AM.


#3 torolover

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 06:16 AM

I would go with 185F for double the recipe time. You can always add more water or make a concentrated stock instead of broth. Obviously apples to oranges, but for example when i make pork stock i cook it down to where its double or triple concentrated. Then filter and chill and remove the top fat layer and reheat the gelatin and pour into ice cube trays and freeze. I can then use those cubes as is for a really intense dish or add a cup of water or vegatable stock for a really flavorful pork stock.

 

Also, it helps to fine chop or shred the vegetables so you extraxt the most flavor, and would most likely cut your time down, but i would still cook it down further.

185F for double the recipe time?  So you mean 185F for 1 hour and half instead of the usually recommended 45 min?  

 

I get confused because books such as Thomas keller says to simmer veggies for 45 min.  What is the temp of a simmer? 200F?

 

If I added double the veggies, could I cut the cooking time in half?  I already thinly slice my veggies.



#4 Plantes Vertes

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 07:19 AM

I will preface my remarks by saying that I have not made a study of this, but I hope my impressions might be useful...

 

If you added infinite veggies, could you reduce the cooking time to zero? No; there must be a certain amount of time required to cook the vegetable to the point of giving up its flavour, and this will be constant no matter how many veggies you cook at once.

 

If you cook a large quantity of vegetables in a small amount of water, the flavour will be more concentrated, but for a conventional simmer you will always need a volume of water relative to veggies that is adequate to submerge them. You can further concentrate the flavour by reducing the stock once the veggies are out.

 

Maybe pressure cooking would be the solution to reduce cooking time? The most closely related thread title is here, although there are other discussions on pressure cooking that mention stock, and on pressure cooking stock in the Modernist Cuisine thread, to be found here.

 

Good luck with your experiments!







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