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Sous Vide: Recipes, Techniques & Equipment (Part 8)

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#211 nickrey

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 02:47 PM

Blowtorches are not very effective for crisping/browning poultry skin -- I continue to try every once in a while but have never found it to be very satisfactory. (Blowtorching works great for beef, though).

For crisping the skin, a broiler is better than a blowtorch although it is not ideal.

Pour-over frying (which I haven't used) is often mentioned as ideal for this by people who have tried every possible method -- it is a bit messy and you have to be careful not to splatter oil all over yourself.

If pour over frying works, deep frying must as well. You'd just need to be very careful that the outside of the chicken piece was well dried to stop erupting oil going everywhere.

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#212 DouglasBaldwin

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 03:15 PM

...
Given the unusual shape and substantial size, I've read backwards to page 62 in toto, and I still haven't found a calculation method for spheroids - the infinite slab calculations don't seem to be applicable. Extrapolating a bit, I'm looking at temps between 160 and 170, and I'm guessing that 24 hours +- would have both the desired pasteurization and gustatory effects. What I really need to have more confidence in is that given the size and shape, I'm getting through the danger zones in an appropriate amount of time, even from frozen.


I link to a chart I made for heating spheres, cylinders, and slabs in this post.
My Guide: A Practical Guide to Sous Vide Cooking, which Harold McGee described as "a wonderful contribution."
My Book: Sous Vide for the Home Cook US EU/UK
My YouTube channel — a new work in progress.

#213 VibeGuy

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 03:30 PM

I am barely allowed to shallow-fry at home after a memorable potatoes parisienne incident the first time I had him over for dinner. Nothing makes for an awkward date quite like a grease fire....(fyi, cold dry potato balls turn into cold wet potato balls if it's a humid day and you linger over a glass of wine - jus' sayin'). I am still allowed to do deep-fried whole pork loins at friends' houses if their homeowner's insurance is paid. Since I'm the only one who gets excited about the skin, it's no big deal if the browning is a little mottled.

Back to the OEM directions. Given their open-to-atmosphere bag roasting method and "350F for 5 to 6 hours to reach 165 with a few cups of water in the pan to get things started" instructions, I'm guessing that in 350F saturated air, the time between 40 and 140 is borderline four hours (its at least an hour from "fully frozen" and it took 45 minutes to get from 130 to 160. So, does anyone have a resource or method for calculating the heat transfer difference between air / saturated air at a given temperature and water at a given temperature?

E

#214 VibeGuy

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 07:41 PM

I link to a chart I made for heating spheres, cylinders, and slabs in this post.


Oooh! How I missed that is beyond me. I reviewed your guide earlier to come up with the range of 160 to 170 (effective pastuerization, esp. of the sketchy stuffing meets the time/temp requirements for tender dark meat). The way I read that chart is that it's the time to reach equilibrium temperature with the bath given a particular shape.

Is there a similar chart (or, better, an equation) that models the specific case of frozen-to-long-cook, where the bath temperature is > pasteurization temperature? Stated another way, I'd like to model a system where for, a given shape with "forcing dimension" X, Starting Temperature Tstart and bath temp Tbath, the time to a given temperature of interest Tinst is calculated, including accounting for the heat required to make the phase change if Tstart<1C

E
(edited for clarity)

Edited by VibeGuy, 29 December 2010 - 07:56 PM.


#215 DouglasBaldwin

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 11:59 PM



I link to a chart I made for heating spheres, cylinders, and slabs in this post.


Oooh! How I missed that is beyond me. I reviewed your guide earlier to come up with the range of 160 to 170 (effective pastuerization, esp. of the sketchy stuffing meets the time/temp requirements for tender dark meat). The way I read that chart is that it's the time to reach equilibrium temperature with the bath given a particular shape.

Is there a similar chart (or, better, an equation) that models the specific case of frozen-to-long-cook, where the bath temperature is > pasteurization temperature? Stated another way, I'd like to model a system where for, a given shape with "forcing dimension" X, Starting Temperature Tstart and bath temp Tbath, the time to a given temperature of interest Tinst is calculated, including accounting for the heat required to make the phase change if Tstart<1C

E
(edited for clarity)


The usual suggestion for cooking from frozen verse thawed is increase the time by half; in many cases, this works quite well.

As for a formula for the time.... With some knowledge of Fourier series methods and Sturm–Liouville problems, you can fairly easily find a formal solution of the heat equation for a sphere, cylinder, or slab. Indeed, several students in the upper-division engineering math course I TAed last semester did it as part of their class project. Solving the heat equation from frozen is not as easy. From thawed is a linear problem while the from frozen is a nonlinear problem (since the thermal diffusivity is highly nonlinear near the freezing point); nonlinear problems are much harder to solve than linear problems; so most people approximate it as two linear problems with a moving boundary condition and it's referred to as the Stefan problem --- needless to say, all of this is way beyond the scope of this forum and is why Nathan and I give tables instead of formulas.
My Guide: A Practical Guide to Sous Vide Cooking, which Harold McGee described as "a wonderful contribution."
My Book: Sous Vide for the Home Cook US EU/UK
My YouTube channel — a new work in progress.

#216 VibeGuy

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 03:29 AM

Thankfully the Vibe in my nick has absolutely nothing to do with the vibraphone, nor do I think Eigenvalue is an Austrian marketer of low-cost Gruner Vetliner. While partial differential equations aren't exactly my idea of a good time; neither do they scare me, per se - I just didn't want to reinvent the wheel where avoidable.

I'd actually moved in the direction of the Stefan task late this evening, because I recognized the moving-boundary condition of a thawed layer of continually increasing thickness riding on the solid core of continually diminishing thickness, and promptly realized that I needed both another glass of wine and to reconsider abandoning the modelling approach for a more experimental one.

Still, backing up once again, trying to find a generalizable approach to a specific problem...how are people approaching the issues of time spent in the temperature range from 5C to 54C in frozen-to-long cook applications? Is reduction of cross-section really the most-viable method? I'm somewhat loathe to open the package to get a probe in the middle, but that's looking like the lowest-hanging fruit right now.

E, realizing that the love of a sandwich has morphed into something else entirely when mustard is replaced by math

#217 infernooo

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 02:17 PM

Just another datapoint to add to the wealth of experimental knowledge.

Disclaimer: Descriptions are subjective, cuts of meat used can and will result in varying degrees of similarity to my results.

BOTH WERE COOKED AT 55.7c (132.26F)

Chuck steak purchased from Coles supermarket each piece approximately 1.2cm thick (0.5"), 10cm x 6cm (4" x 2.4") length x width (grain running width ways, i.e. 2.4" long), 90 grams (3 ounces):

24 hours - Rare texture, after first bite, "blood" (I know it's not blood, but it is shorter than saying "protein saturated water from the meat" or "a combination of the water in the muscle & pigment from the muscle cells") started coming to the bitten surface. Some parts soft and very tender and I would consider perfect, however other parts of the steak were still noticably chewy from connective tissue. Definitely needs longer for most parts. Fat is soft but not rendered.
48 hours - TBD Tonight
72 hours - TBD Tomorrow Night

Veal spare ribs (cut into separate ribs, appearance similar to pork spare ribs with cartilage at the thick end running width-ways) purchased from Joes Meat Market (average butcher, meat quality perhaps in between supermarket cheapest and medium grade butcher), approximately 1cm thick at thin end (0.4"), 3cm thick at thick end (1.2"), 13cm x 3cm (5.11" x 1.2") length x width, 200g (7 ounce):


24 hours - Rare texture, some parts deeper in closer to the bone soft in almost a mushy way. Membrane still completely inedible (chewy as a rubber band), some parts perfect texture, others too chewy (as above with chuck steak). Definitely needs longer even though it is "tender" veal. Bone still very hard, cartilage still very hard. Fat softened but not rendered.
48 hours - TBD Tonight
72 hours - TBD Tomorrow Night

#218 technophile50

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 04:49 PM

For the "ready roast" turkey, I'd be inclined to finish it by removing the stuffing and microwaving it in a shallow layer in a pyrex baking pan to 160+, then restuffing and browning the skin in a 450 preheated oven. It would probably be quicker, and less likely to overcook the meat while bringing the stuffing to temperature - plus you get to use 3 pieces of equipment - sous vide, microwave, and oven &;>).

It's interesting that the Kroger website recommends -
"Can I stuff the turkey the night before?
To be safe, stuffing a turkey is not recommended. For more even cooking and to prevent the spread of bacteria, it’s best to cook stuffing in a casserole dish according to the package or recipe directions."

FWIW, I often split a turkey in half, smoke over charcoal and green applewood cuttings while preparing nuked stuffing, then reassemble the bird plus hot stuffing and finish in the microwave. The steamy stuffing cooks a moist bird from the inside, while the brown/smoked skin stays crisp, and juice/fat renders into the microwave dish for making gravy.

#219 Guy MovingOn

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Posted 31 December 2010 - 02:12 AM

Nathan, I recall that one of the controversies of the book is the statement that steamed duck brushed with duck fat tastes the same as duck confit. People didn't believe this, but blind tasting showed that they couldn't tell which was which.


Many people also say that duck confit "matures" and improves over time by being stored in the duck fat. Do you think this is true?

#220 nathanm

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Posted 31 December 2010 - 08:19 AM

Nathan, I recall that one of the controversies of the book is the statement that steamed duck brushed with duck fat tastes the same as duck confit. People didn't believe this, but blind tasting showed that they couldn't tell which was which.


Many people also say that duck confit "matures" and improves over time by being stored in the duck fat. Do you think this is true?

Yes, what you say above is covered in the book. We did blind tastings and could not tell the difference between confit cooked in a steam over or sous vide without fat, then had fat put on at the end. The temperature you cook at and the time matter, but whether it is immersed in oil during cooking does not matter.

Duck confit is a cured meat product that was originally done for preservation - you salt the duck to cure it, then cook it, then (traditionally) you store it in a cool place in the congealed fat which was a sort of oxygen barrier, a bit like sous vide packaging.

During that storage, the fat will oxidize a bit (i.e. get slightly rancid), which you definitely can taste. However you can achieve that by putting aged fat on the meat.
Nathan

#221 runwestierun

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Posted 31 December 2010 - 10:43 AM

Just to let you know how mainstream this is becoming, Costco online now offers the Sous Vide Supreme with a vacuum sealer, bags and a cookbook.

http://www.costco.co...matchallpartial

#222 infernooo

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Posted 31 December 2010 - 11:16 AM

Just another datapoint to add to the wealth of experimental knowledge.

Disclaimer: Descriptions are subjective, cuts of meat used can and will result in varying degrees of similarity to my results.

BOTH WERE COOKED AT 55.7c (132.26F)

Chuck steak purchased from Coles supermarket each piece approximately 1.2cm thick (0.5"), 10cm x 6cm (4" x 2.4") length x width (grain running width ways, i.e. 2.4" long), 90 grams (3 ounces):

24 hours - Rare texture, after first bite, "blood" (I know it's not blood, but it is shorter than saying "protein saturated water from the meat" or "a combination of the water in the muscle & pigment from the muscle cells") started coming to the bitten surface. Some parts soft and very tender and I would consider perfect, however other parts of the steak were still noticably chewy from connective tissue. Definitely needs longer for most parts. Fat is soft but not rendered.
48 hours - Rare texture, more fluid loss than after 24 hours, but still very juicy. Perfect texture in terms of doneness, no offensive chewiness. Fat soft but not rendered, melts nicely in the mouth. Thinking it may be nice seared in a pan to try and melt some of the marbling? Hard to balance melting fat with overcooking the piece. One piece developed off flavours... but I ate it anyways.
72 hours - TBD Tomorrow Night

Veal spare ribs (cut into separate ribs, appearance similar to pork spare ribs with cartilage at the thick end running width-ways) purchased from Joes Meat Market (average butcher, meat quality perhaps in between supermarket cheapest and medium grade butcher), approximately 1cm thick at thin end (0.4"), 3cm thick at thick end (1.2"), 13cm x 3cm (5.11" x 1.2") length x width, 200g (7 ounce):


24 hours - Rare texture, some parts deeper in closer to the bone soft in almost a mushy way. Membrane still completely inedible (chewy as a rubber band), some parts perfect texture, others too chewy (as above with chuck steak). Definitely needs longer even though it is "tender" veal. Bone still very hard, cartilage still very hard. Fat softened but not rendered.
48 hours - Rare texture, strange eating a rib from the bone that is rare/medrare as fat is mushy (warm but not rendered) and meat is VERY soft. Membrane still quite tough, but parts of connective tissue edible. Bone has softened significantly, however upon biting into it, has quite a strong "bloody" taste with noticable amounts of "blood" leeching out. Cartilage still very firm.
72 hours - TBD Tomorrow Night

#223 MartinH

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Posted 31 December 2010 - 12:00 PM

As for a formula for the time.... With some knowledge of Fourier series methods and Sturm–Liouville problems, you can fairly easily find a formal solution of the heat equation for a sphere, cylinder, or slab. Indeed, several students in the upper-division engineering math course I TAed last semester did it as part of their class project. Solving the heat equation from frozen is not as easy. From thawed is a linear problem while the from frozen is a nonlinear problem (since the thermal diffusivity is highly nonlinear near the freezing point); nonlinear problems are much harder to solve than linear problems; so most people approximate it as two linear problems with a moving boundary condition and it's referred to as the Stefan problem --- needless to say, all of this is way beyond the scope of this forum and is why Nathan and I give tables instead of formulas.


It strikes me that a software app ought to be able to solve heat equations. Does anyone know if there are any software apps out there in the internet designed to do this?

#224 DouglasBaldwin

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Posted 31 December 2010 - 12:26 PM

It strikes me that a software app ought to be able to solve heat equations. Does anyone know if there are any software apps out there in the internet designed to do this?


I don't know any off the top of my head -- I wrote almost all my code in Mathematica. Probably the easiest language to program something like that up in would by Python using the free SciPy and NumPy packages. I'd do it myself, but I'm spending 60+ hours a week on my Ph.D. and just don't have the time. (I spent a week more than a year ago trying to code something up in Mathematica but my calculations didn't match my experimental data to my satisfaction.) If anyone is willing and able to code it up in Python, please feel free to email me and I'll share what I've done and the research papers and data I've collected on modeling the freezing and thawing meat.
My Guide: A Practical Guide to Sous Vide Cooking, which Harold McGee described as "a wonderful contribution."
My Book: Sous Vide for the Home Cook US EU/UK
My YouTube channel — a new work in progress.

#225 jrshaul

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Posted 31 December 2010 - 04:43 PM

It seems like a lot of the problems folks are having here are related to the inability to program the thermostat. Has anyone tried using an Arduino or the like?

#226 MartinH

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Posted 31 December 2010 - 06:43 PM

I don't know any off the top of my head -- I wrote almost all my code in Mathematica. Probably the easiest language to program something like that up in would by Python using the free SciPy and NumPy packages. I'd do it myself, but I'm spending 60+ hours a week on my Ph.D. and just don't have the time. (I spent a week more than a year ago trying to code something up in Mathematica but my calculations didn't match my experimental data to my satisfaction.) If anyone is willing and able to code it up in Python, please feel free to email me and I'll share what I've done and the research papers and data I've collected on modeling the freezing and thawing meat.


Maybe an app of this kind is a venture that Nathan's Intellectual Ventures could invest in? Nathan, if you are reading this, perhaps bundling the app with copies of Modernist Cuisine could be an option?

Douglas, you point out that thermal diffusivity in food undergoing a phase-transition (frozen-to-thawed) is nonlinear. When I think nonlinear systems, I think of chaos, the weather, things like that. I'm supposing that the reason it is nonlinear is that a thawing substance is more complex than a steady-state piece of meat (or whatever) since it has lots of micro-regions in different states, all interacting with each other. But as it thaws, complexity reduces, it becomes homogenous, and thermal diffusivity gradually turns linear. Fascinating!

Happy New Year to all sous viders!

#227 PedroG

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Posted 01 January 2011 - 03:41 AM

PID-tuning

With the new 1500D controllers from FMS, up to Software version R4 the P-band could only be set in integer degrees; P=0010 meant P=10°C (or F). This was of no concern with rice cookers (well-insulated with high power and high thermal inertia) which required very large P-bands like 10°C (P=0010) to avoid overshoot, but with less well insulated, lower wattage cookers requiring very narrow P-bands, this used to be a disadvantage. Especially with the FreshMealsMagic (high power, poor insulation with the original polycarbonate container, and very small thermal inertia as a consequence of the heating element being immersed in the water) the P-band could not be set low enough to provoke oscillation, so typical closed-loop-tuning was not possible. Now finally with software version R5, the P-band can be set in decimals, i.e. P=000.5 means P=0.5°C.

Here are some results of stability measurements with an FMM controlled by a SVM 1500D with software version R5:

Posted Image

With a very large P-band, excellent stability is achieved, which gradually deteriorates with smaller P-bands; from P=0.5 to P=0.2 there is a discontinuity in the relation of P-band and stability, so with P=0.2°C there is obvious oscillation.

I use P=20°C to have an ultra-stable bath for sensor calibration purposes, but not for practical cooking.

The following two test runs with P=0.5°C and P=0.6°C show that with a fast-reacting cooker (FMM) running the PID-controller in P-only mode (zero integral term and zero derivative term) is sufficient to have fast ramping up, low overshoot, good stability and fast disturbance recovery, obviating the need to bother with further tuning on integral and derivative terms. P=0.5°C makes an extremely fast and responsive system with almost no negative offset at the price of only fair stability (±0.09°C, which is still far better than the ±0.4°C Douglas Baldwin mentions in his guide with a PID-controlled steam table water bath). P=0.6°C makes an almost equally responsive system with excellent stability (±0.04°C, which equals the stability of a circulating laboratory water bath mentioned by Douglas Baldwin in his guide) at the price of a 0.1°C negative offset.

The third diagram shows the much slower disturbance recovery with classical PID-settings after auto-tuning.

Finally, I tried to find optimal PID-parameters for a 1500D/FMM combo with the lowest P (P=1°C) that can be set in 1500D version 1 up to version 4:
P=1°C, I=1800 sec, D=6 sec, Ar=30% yields no overshoot, very fast disturbance recovery und very good stability (±0.06°C). See the fourth diagram below. “Ar” is a parameter that mitigates integral action to avoid overshoot.

With rice cookers, large P-bands are necessary to avoid overshoot; this results in considerable negative offset necessitating correction by an integral term and in slow disturbance recovery necessitating a derivative term to counteract disturbance. Optimal tuning of a rice cooker is obviously much more tedious than tuning an immersion heater like FMM.

P=0.5°C makes an extremely fast and responsive system with almost no negative offset at the price of only fair stability (±0.09°C):
Posted Image

P=0.6°C makes an almost equally responsive system with excellent stability (±0.04°C) at the price of a 0.1°C negative offset:
Posted Image

The following diagram of a test run with PID-settings after auto-tuning shows much slower disturbance recovery and more overshoot:
Posted Image

The last diagram shows no overshoot, very fast disturbance recovery und very good stability with P=1°C, I=1800 sec, D=6 sec, Ar=30%.
Posted Image

Peter F. Gruber aka Pedro
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#228 Chris Amirault

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Posted 01 January 2011 - 11:50 AM

[Moderator note: The original Sous Vide: Recipes, Techniques & Equipment topic became too large for our servers to handle efficiently, so we've divided it up; the preceding part of this discussion is here: Sous Vide: Recipes, Techniques & Equipment, 2010-2011]

This is the general topic for discussion of SV recipes, techniques, and equipment. Click here for the original SV topic; click here for the index for that topic and more.

Recent topics: Sous Vide: Recipes, Techniques & Equipment, 2011 and Sous Vide: Recipes, Techniques & Equipment, 2012

The index and the search engine will be important resources as you explore SV cooking. However, we open this topic for general discussion.

Onward!


Edited by Mjx, 19 July 2013 - 12:41 AM.
Adjusted note and links.

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#229 TheTInCook

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 06:38 PM

Gotta think SV could produce great greens, esp. collard and kale, but can't find any references to either collard or kale in this topic, the eG SV index

Thomas Keller is pretty definite about excluding many green vegetables from sous vide, though his concern is in part preserving color. He prefers "big pot boiling" where one cooks just to the point of tenderness in a gigantic, very salty pot of boiling water, then plunges into ice water to arrest the cooking. This was one of the better home cooking lessons from The French Laundry Cookbook, reprised in Under Pressure.


Greens like collards and kale aren't usually cooked like that. They're pretty tough, so they are generally braised for a long time. They certainly don't keep their vibrant color.

#230 mark28209

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 06:57 PM

Very successful experiment: 1.25 lb collards, stems removed, cut into ribbons, bagged with 2T butter, 1 hour @ 185. Although there was some loss of color per Keller, they were mighty darn fine greens, lush, silky with a heightened sweetness that I have never noticed in my traditional preparation.

Having gone native he'ah in Cha'lut, I have been doing my greens in smoked-pork-infested water. I am going to experiment with some of my pulled pork bits in the bag (as I do with brussel sprouts), maybe (partially) substituting bacon fat for butter, hopefully not to overwhelm the sweetness.

Color issue aside, worth a try.

#231 FeChef

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 10:07 AM

Whoever is able to develop a reusable vacuum bag will retire on a beach next to the folks who developed Cool-Ranch Doritos flavoring.

These bags can be reused if light duty like 132F steaks for a few hours. I dont know if they would hold up for 2+ day baths though.
Posted Image

#232 Filipp

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 02:44 AM

Hi
I am very interested to start with sous vide cooking. But i have one main concern at that is boutulism.
How likley Will it be to produce the deadly toxin if i cook like a piece of meat following the gguideline and Then eat it. If i get som leftovers i Will store it in a regular foodbox. Or is the real danger When u start to store cooked food in vaccum bags.
Can there be a chans of botulism if Cook according to the guidlines and Then stored NOT in vaccum?

#233 nickrey

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 04:02 AM

See this section of Douglas Baldwin's practical guide to sous vide. Better still, read the whole document. It will answer not only this question but many others you may have about sous vide cooking.

Nick Reynolds, aka "nickrey"

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Unless there are three other people." Orson Welles
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#234 Filipp

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 05:39 AM

See this section of Douglas Baldwin's practical guide to sous vide. Better still, read the whole document. It will answer not only this question but many others you may have about sous vide cooking.


I have read it but since My english isnt that great I just want to doublecheck with u guys.
If i understand it correct the safe way to cook sousvide is cook-hold. And Then if i get some leftovers it is safe to store them in the fridge in a none vaccum container?

That way should be safe regarding botulism?

Edited by Filipp, 06 January 2013 - 05:43 AM.


#235 nickrey

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 12:48 PM

It really depends on the level of hazard at each step of the process. This is how HACCP plans are worked out.

You can cook hold and serve following the guidelines for holding to keep the food safe. You can also cook chill store using the guidelines given in that section of Douglas' guide. If the food is still sealed after your hold, you can cook hold chill store as long as your holding temperature was above 55C.

As you are just starting to cook sous vide and have some difficulties reading English, I'd be getting Douglas' book "Sous Vide for the Home Cook" and following his guidelines for pasteurising the food.

It is a bit more hazardous doing cook hold serve chill revacuum and freeze given the extra steps of chilling and thawing and adding what may now be non-pasteurised food to a vacuum.

What you probably don't want to do is cook hold serve chill revacuum and the store in fridge.

Nick Reynolds, aka "nickrey"

"My doctor told me to stop having intimate dinners for four.
Unless there are three other people." Orson Welles
My eG Foodblog


#236 Filipp

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 03:44 PM

It really depends on the level of hazard at each step of the process. This is how HACCP plans are worked out.

You can cook hold and serve following the guidelines for holding to keep the food safe. You can also cook chill store using the guidelines given in that section of Douglas' guide. If the food is still sealed after your hold, you can cook hold chill store as long as your holding temperature was above 55C.

As you are just starting to cook sous vide and have some difficulties reading English, I'd be getting Douglas' book "Sous Vide for the Home Cook" and following his guidelines for pasteurising the food.

It is a bit more hazardous doing cook hold serve chill revacuum and freeze given the extra steps of chilling and thawing and adding what may now be non-pasteurised food to a vacuum.

What you probably don't want to do is cook hold serve chill revacuum and the store in fridge.


Ok, thanks for the reply, i think i am starting to get it now.
So cook- hold the food. Then if u get any leftovers there is safe to store the in the fridge without vaccum, just like in a plastic container.
But it is a big nono to revaccum and store already cooked food in the fridge?

#237 rotuts

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 03:47 PM

you can re-vacuum and store, but that's no better than plastic wrap or a plain plastic container. its not longer pasteurized. and you waste a vacuum bag.

#238 Filipp

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 04:02 PM

you can re-vacuum and store, but that's no better than plastic wrap or a plain plastic container. its not longer pasteurized. and you waste a vacuum bag.


Okey,
Acctualy My Only concern with this method (sous vide) of cooking is the risk of botulism.
But it seems to be safe from that as long as u cook-hold and then dont reheat any possible leftovers

#239 rotuts

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 04:11 PM

once they are left-overs, you treat them the same as any other left-overs. you can reheat them in that fashion, just not as a pasteurized keeper.

#240 Filipp

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 04:22 PM

once they are left-overs, you treat them the same as any other left-overs. you can reheat them in that fashion, just not as a pasteurized keeper.

Ok, thanks for the answer.
I just want to be sure what i am getting into :)
Am i correct when i say that the deadly toxin only Can be created in a anaero enviorment?

Edited by Filipp, 06 January 2013 - 05:04 PM.






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