88 replies to this topic

[Priscilla]

Beautiful travelogue, Behemoth.

How are the cactus fruit used? Are the paddles eaten too, as in Mexican cuisine?

[Behemoth]

What are cactus fruits called in Arabic?

Should be a familiar word to anyone who's spent time in Israel: sabr (aka sabra )

[Behemoth]

Beautiful travelogue, Behemoth.

How are the cactus fruit used?  Are the paddles eaten too, as in Mexican cuisine?

The fruit becomes bright orange/red and very sweet, kind of a weird watery seedy texture but very cooling. I do remember eating the paddles, blanched in a salad. Very similar to the mexican dish, actually. Both the fuit and paddles need some heavy cleaning to get rid of the thorns.

[Almass]

What are cactus fruits called in Arabic?

Should be a familiar word to anyone who's spent time in Israel: sabr (aka sabra )

The paddles are not edible in Lebanon or Egypt.

The correct name for cactus fruits in Lebanon is:
Teen el Sebai'r

The correct name for cactus fruits in Egypt is:
Teen Shawki

The fruit is devoid of any thorns as they are strictly on the skin.
The way to cut the fruit after washing (hand gloves). You cut out both ends and then make a deep incision the lenght of the fruit and prize open each side of the incision revealing the fruit. You eat the fruit by gently chewing on the pulp and you do not cruch the seeds or bite on them but simply swallow a la Huitres.

Very nice and refreshing.

[Priscilla]

Beautiful travelogue, Behemoth.

How are the cactus fruit used?  Are the paddles eaten too, as in Mexican cuisine?

The fruit becomes bright orange/red and very sweet, kind of a weird watery seedy texture but very cooling. I do remember eating the paddles, blanched in a salad. Very similar to the mexican dish, actually. Both the fuit and paddles need some heavy cleaning to get rid of the thorns.

Sure would love to know the Lebanese preparations!

I love cactus salad. I have cut and cleaned the paddles myself, a treacherous task indeed, so always consider it a special gift when the nice lady at the farmer's market has bags of prepped paddles for sale.

The fruit on the variety growing in my Southern California canyon ripens to dusty grapey purple, but the flesh inside is lovely intense magenta. Excellent for sorbetto. The fruit are more difficult than the paddles to clean, some of the worst spines are of hairlike thinness, nearly invisible.

[Behemoth]

The paddles are not edible in Lebanon or Egypt.

The correct name for cactus fruits in Lebanon is:
Teen el Sebai'r

The correct name for cactus fruits in Egypt is:
Teen Shawki

The fruit is devoid of any thorns as they are strictly on the skin.
The way to cut the fruit after washing (hand gloves). You cut out both ends and then make a deep incision the lenght of the fruit and prize open each side of the incision revealing the fruit. You eat the fruit by gently chewing on the pulp and you do not cruch the seeds or bite on them but simply swallow a la Huitres.

Very nice and refreshing.

Almass, my memory may be playing tricks on me about the paddles (I'll ask my dad tomorrow), though I really do remember eating them blanched, with the standard lemon and olive oil dressing. Maybe a different variety?

Anyway, I went back and looked in Chef Ramzi's book (Min Tourath Lubnan, Arabic edition, page 544) and he says that they are called "Sabbar" or "Sabbair" which as far as I'm concerned is just a minor difference in pronounciation (though you may disagree.) The term "teen" referring to cactus fruit might be a regional thing, as I have never heard of it and Chef Ramzi fails to mention it. Finally, he is quite emphatic that the fruit needs to be carefully cleaned, as it is covered in thorns. As for a la Huitres, whatever floats your boat, dude

[Behemoth]

Priscilla, Paula Wolfert has a cactus paddle recipe from Tunisia in her cookbook Mediterranean Grains and Greens. From what I've read I don't see where Lebanese and Tunisian cactus paddles differ, but I will need to ask around.


edited to add link for the curious.

Edited by Behemoth, 29 July 2005 - 04:21 PM.

[Almass]

The paddles are not edible in Lebanon or Egypt.

The correct name for cactus fruits in Lebanon is:
Teen el Sebai'r

The correct name for cactus fruits in Egypt is:
Teen Shawki

The fruit is devoid of any thorns as they are strictly on the skin.
The way to cut the fruit after washing (hand gloves). You cut out both ends and then make a deep incision the lenght of the fruit and prize open each side of the incision revealing the fruit. You eat the fruit by gently chewing on the pulp and you do not cruch the seeds or bite on them but simply swallow a la Huitres.

Very nice and refreshing.

Almass, my memory may be playing tricks on me about the paddles (I'll ask my dad tomorrow), though I really do remember eating them blanched, with the standard lemon and olive oil dressing. Maybe a different variety?

Anyway, I went back and looked in Chef Ramzi's book (Min Tourath Lubnan, Arabic edition, page 544) and he says that they are called "Sabbar" or "Sabbair" which as far as I'm concerned is just a minor difference in pronounciation (though you may disagree.) The term "teen" referring to cactus fruit might be a regional thing, as I have never heard of it and Chef Ramzi fails to mention it. Finally, he is quite emphatic that the fruit needs to be carefully cleaned, as it is covered in thorns. As for a la Huitres, whatever floats your boat, dude

- Sabbar or Sabbair is acceptable but it is not Sabr or Sabra as you have stated.

- Was there any recipe in Chef Ramzi's Book for the paddles?
Whether Chef Ramzi's failed to mention or not the word "teen" or "Tin" is really up to him and he should have.
And of course the fruit "skin" is covered with thorns but not the inside pulp and seed!

- I look forward to read whether you have been able to locate a recipe in Lebanon for the "paddles" cause I sure never heard or tried any.

But then again I have also never been called a dude before. Not even with a smily and I not have no boat but I know how to float.

[Almass]

Priscilla, Paula Wolfert has a cactus paddle recipe from Tunisia in her cookbook Mediterranean Grains and Greens. From what I've read I don't see where Lebanese and Tunisian cactus paddles differ, but I will need to ask around.


edited to add link for the curious.

It is not the point of having a difference in Lebanese or Tunisian cacti or cactuses.

It is the mere fact that you could not have eaten cacti or cactuses paddles in the Lebanon as you are stating for the simple fact that, to the best of my knowledge, it is not a Lebanese dish and there is no Lebanese recipe for it.

[Behemoth]

It is the mere fact that you could not have eaten cacti or cactuses paddles in the Lebanon as you are stating for the simple fact that, to the best of my knowledge,  it is not a Lebanese dish and there is no Lebanese recipe for it.

I have eaten Enchiladas in Lebanon even though as far as I know they are also not a Lebanese dish and there is no Lebanese recipes for those either. Perhaps my uncle read about the Tunisian dish, decided to give it a whirl, and it became a family favorite. Who knows. I'm really not sure what point you're trying to make here, or if you're just being cranky.

[Pam R]

Should be a familiar word to anyone who's spent time in Israel: sabr (aka sabra  )

So they too are hard and prickly on the outside and soft in the middle?


I'm really enjoying your stories and pictures. Thanks so much for sharing them.

[Behemoth]

Should be a familiar word to anyone who's spent time in Israel: sabr (aka sabra  )

So they too are hard and prickly on the outside and soft in the middle?


I'm really enjoying your stories and pictures. Thanks so much for sharing them.

Prickly is a common feature in that part of the world I guess

Actually, Almass is right about the name...sabbair is the cactus, whereas sabr (looking at Larousse arabic) apparently refers to aloe. I thought sabbair was just the name in Levantine dialect, but apparently it is the "standard arabic" name too.

In any case, the derivation is the same. "Sabr" means patience in arabic, so sabbair means "patient plant", presumably because it can do without water for so long. At least that's what Larousse says. Does anyone know if it has the same meaning in Hebrew?

[Pam R]

Actually, Almass is right about the name...sabbair is the cactus, whereas sabr (looking at Larousse arabic) apparently refers to aloe. I thought sabbair was just the name in Levantine dialect, but apparently it is the "standard arabic" name too.

In any case, the derivation is the same. "Sabr" means patience in arabic, so sabbair means "patient plant", presumably because it can do without water for so long. At least that's what Larousse says. Does anyone know if it has the same meaning in Hebrew?

According to answers.com , Sabra is a prickly pear... or native Israeli.
My hebrew dictionary is at work... I'll try to remember to check next week.

[FoodMan]

Nadia-
Sabr is what it is called where I come from as well.

Almass-
It does not matter one bit if it is Sabr, Sabra, Tiin Al Sabr, or Sabr il Teen or whatever. I am done playing word games on the boards. If we all know what it is and what we are refering to then a vowel here and there DOES NOT matter. Let me say it again, ANY debate as to how a certain word is correctly pronounced by anyone will be removed.

How on earth do you know if Nadia had the Sabr paddles in Lebanon or not? I have never eaten it over there and do not know of anyone who does either but I cannot say for sure that NO ONE in Lebanon eats it, or that no parts of the Levant serve it. Please if you are going to make a comment let it be constructive or at least inquisitive instead of purely aiming at finding fault with other people's comments!

Elie

[KatieLoeb]

Wow - I've learned so much from this wonderful tale. I've learned that your name is actually Nadia (although I still love the little 'possum and will forever think of you as Behemoth) and I've learned that Lebanon is a beautiful country that I hope to have the good fortune to visit someday, and I've learned that your ethnicity is NOT, as I had always believed, "former Philadelphian"!

Thanks so much for sharing this. It's fabulous on so many levels.

And PLEASE post your recipes to RecipeGullet and let us know when they're there!!!

[Behemoth]

... and I've learned that your ethnicity is NOT, as I had always believed, "former Philadelphian"! 

Maybe not, but I have some pretty deep roots in Philly, too. I will say, however, that merging onto the Schuylkill expressway was the closest experience to driving in Beirut that I've ever had outside of Lebanon.

[Almass]

Nadia-
Sabr is what it is called where I come from as well.

Almass-
It does not matter one bit if it is Sabr, Sabra, Tiin Al Sabr, or Sabr il Teen or whatever. I am done playing word games on the boards. If we all know what it is and what we are refering to then a vowel here and there DOES NOT matter. Let me say it again, ANY debate as to how a certain word is correctly pronounced by anyone will be removed.

How on earth do you know if Nadia had the Sabr paddles in Lebanon or not? I have never eaten it over there and do not know of anyone who does either but I cannot say for sure that NO ONE in Lebanon eats it, or that no parts of the Levant serve it. Please if you are going to make a comment let it be constructive or at least inquisitive instead of purely aiming at finding fault with other people's comments!

Elie

You are right, call the item any way you want and change the recipe any which way you want. After all , it does not make any difference to scorch a language and distort the vocabulary.

It also really does not matter to claim whether a recipe is or is not, might or might not belong to the culinary tradition of a country. We simply adopt the dish as part of the repertoire and expropriate it. Nevermind that the natives are not even aware of it.

Hey I ate in Irkutsk a dish called Chicroute Alsasione. It definitley is the correct spelling and authentic Siberian!!!

[Behemoth]

While I realize this post will be deleted as soon as Elie wakes up, I just have to say this.

1) Almass, this thread is very clearly a very idiosyncratic account of one person's family in one part of Lebanon at a particular time, as filtered through the memory of that one particular person. I have been very clear about this.

2) You should know more than anyone that Lebanese are not a bunch of benighted natives out of a National Georaphic. We travel a lot, we read a lot, and hence hybrid foods like, say, croissants with zaatar have indeed become so much a part of the landscape that for someone of my age they are simply Lebanese now, albeit with a traceable history. Arguing about what is "genuine" in such a fluid culture as ours is mildly interesting when done contructively but completely pointless (not to mention boring) on this thread. Becuase, as I said, it is one person's account of how that one person's family did things. Sorry we don't fit the textbook definitions you've apparently been reading, but few of the people I met do these days.

3) Nobody is reading this as an account of "THE FOODS OF LEBANON" capital letters, but rather "The foods that Nadia remembers having, growing up in Lebanon". For some reason everyone else seems to have understood that. The authenticity argument is being debated on another thread, and it is boring enough over there. Over here nobody really gives a shit.

[KatieLoeb]

... and I've learned that your ethnicity is NOT, as I had always believed, "former Philadelphian"! 

Maybe not, but I have some pretty deep roots in Philly, too. I will say, however, that merging onto the Schuylkill expressway was the closest experience to driving in Beirut that I've ever had outside of Lebanon.

Gotta love those "right-into-the-full-speed-left-lane" on ramps, eh?

[Behemoth]

This might puts things in context: LINK

(NYT, registration required but oh so worth it.)

[Smithy]

Wow - I've learned so much from this wonderful tale.  I've learned that your name is actually Nadia (although I still love the little 'possum and will forever think of you as Behemoth) and I've learned that Lebanon is a beautiful country that I hope to have the good fortune to visit someday, and I've learned that your ethnicity is NOT, as I had always believed, "former Philadelphian"! 

Thanks so much for sharing this.  It's fabulous on so many levels.

And PLEASE post your recipes to RecipeGullet and let us know when they're there!!!

Wot she said.

...and thanks for the laugh about the Schuylkill Freeway on-ramp!

[Chufi]

I have enjoyed this thread so very much.

When all you know about a country comes from television and newspaper reports on war, political tension etc., it's hard not to forget that this is a country like any other where people live, love and find joy in (among other things..) food.
Thank you for showing me another side of your country and yet again, make my world a little bigger and less biased.

Beautifully written, lovely pictures, and a lovely mixture of nostalgia and descriptions of the present, without romanticizing.

Thank you.

[marlena spieler]

Behomoth,

loved this report.

wish your family could adopt me, for maybe two eatin and drinkin weeks.

have you read The Language of Baklava, by Diane Abu Jaber? I recommend it wholeheartedly. Its Diane Abu Jabers memoir of growing up Jordanian/American in america, the quirkiness of her family, and going back and forth to family over there, back here, and what she ate and what happened and she is such a good writer, that when i put the book down i thought: i can never write as good as she does so i'm just going to throw my computer away!

and oh did i want to eat middle eastern food then, it brought back many of my own back and forths to israel, and the ingredients and the dishes, though my family remains in the holy land of california, and while they are a lot of fun to eat with, the food (and ingredients) (and restos) just ain't so good. suburban california (sacramento) has a lot to answer to gastronomically. now, if only my family could eat what YOURS does!

thanks for the visit to lebanon, and to your family, and i hope to be able to visit myself someday.....

cheers,

marlena

[Behemoth]

have you read The Language of Baklava, by Diane Abu Jaber? I recommend it wholeheartedly. Its Diane Abu Jabers memoir of growing up Jordanian/American in america, the quirkiness of her family, and going back and forth to family over there, back here, and what she ate and what happened and she is such a good writer, that when i put the book down i thought: i can never write as good as she does so i'm just going to throw my computer away!

There was big article in Saudi/Aramco March-April 2005 about Arab writers abroad. Diana Abu-Jaber is profiled, along with a large number of other people who I've been meaning to read. Here is a link for anyone who might be interested.

Goodness, everyone commenting on the thread in the past tense. You don't get off that easy. I am trying to put some time in on a paper for work but after that I plan to harangue you with the charms of the Bekaa valley and the cultural intricacies of getting plastered on small batch Arak at three in the afternoon.

[Chufi]

Goodness, everyone commenting on the thread in the past tense. You don't get off that easy. I am trying to put some time in on a paper for work but after that I plan to harangue you with the charms of the Bekaa valley and the cultural intricacies of getting plastered on small batch Arak at three in the afternoon.

you'd better keep that promise! can't wait!
Yesterday, I was actually looking at a trip to Syria, Lebanon and Jordan for next spring.
All your fault.

[Behemoth]

Chufi, I'll need a couple of days before I have time. Here are a couple of day-trip recommendations to keep you entertained in the meantime:

The cedars: Note in the picture that in late June there is still snow on the highest peaks. If you go in the spring there will of course be a lot more snow.



Spring is a great time to go. The fruit trees are blossoming and the countryside is blanketed with wildflowers. The mountains smell like a mixture of thyme and honey and that smell is one of the few things I get really, really homesick for.



Another great place to go is Jbeil (Byblos). It is not far from Beirut and has beautiful beaches and great fish restaurants, as well as being the oldest continuously inhabited city in the world. Imagine eating grilled fish on the beach with a view of a 7000 year old city. Pretty cool.



foreground: Phoenecian foundations. Background, Roman columns. As I am taking this photo I am standing in front of a crusader citadel.



foreground: Roman ruins. In back, Ottoman era house, beach and mountains.

Edited by Behemoth, 05 August 2005 - 02:40 PM.

[Behemoth]

Okay Chufi, I finally wrote it! You can link to the story and some photos here:

Our Friend Bacchus

Wow, my report took me longer than our actual visit.

Anyway, I'll leave you with some extra photos of baalbek.

In the foreground, I could only make out the word Caesar. Temple of Jupiter visible in the background.


Temple of Bacchus, side view.


Medusa, queen of the bad hair day.


Intricate carving.

[Behemoth]

Less than a month ago, a bomb exploded just off Monnot Street, but in Monnot's District, everyone is dancing on tables and ordering tray after tray of shots.

Cute article about Beirut nightlife in the Daily Star: link

[Lone Star]

Nadia - I enjoyed sharing your trip to Beirut! We lived in Kuwait for 7 years when I was growing up and my father worked for Gulf in the late 60's and early 70's. We made frequent trips to Beirut for “getaways” such as sports trips or just R&R. I know it is one of the most beautiful cities on earth.

We always stayed at the beautiful Phoenician Hotel, the one with the “underwater bar” that fascinated us.

My mother took some shots at daybreak from the balcony that are absolutely breathtaking.

I don’t remember much about the food there, other than it was always very late when we had dinner! I remember all the different nationalites of people enjoying the city and it seemed so glamourous to me.

Our last trip home, we passed through Beirut on our way to the states and it was very different. It was 1974 and we were taken off the plane and told we would be confined to the hotel for two days. There were bullet holes all over the airport and the lovely hotel we had so admired was tattered as well and everything seemed dark and fearful.

Your photos and stories have restored my beautiful memories of that place. Thank you for sharing your trip.