What Are You Cooking Sous Vide Today? (Part 3)

[ElsieD]

A cousin of mine and his wife came for a visit a few years ago from Holland.  They couldn't believe the size of the meat portions they were served in restaurants.  It was way more than they were used to.

[FeChef]

On 5/4/2021 at 12:46 PM, btbyrd said:

It's an old school steakhouse thing (e.g, Peter Luger's) typically done on cuts that are big/thick enough to be shared (which this was, even though I was the only person eating it). It also helps distribute the sauce evenly. And it lets you eat the meat from the rib bone whenever you please instead of waiting until the end.

OK, but look at all the moisture loss, Theres a pool. How is this something to want?

[btbyrd]

It's sauce.

[Bernie]

OK food scientists out there, here is a question slightly out of left field.

 

 

When you cook say beef  sous vide, at various temperatures there are various reactions ( https://douglasbaldwin.com/sous-vide.html#Safety ....Muscle meat is roughly 75% water, 20% protein and 5% fat and other substances. The protein in meat can be divided into three groups: myofibrillar (50–55%), sarcoplasmic (30–34%) and connective tissue (10–15%). The myofibrillar proteins (mostly myosin and actin) and the connective tissue proteins (mostly collagen) contract when heated, while the sarcoplasmic proteins expand when heated. These changes are usually called denaturation.

During heating, the muscle fibers shrink transversely and longitudinally, the sarcoplasmic proteins aggregate and gel, and connective tissues shrink and solubilize. The muscle fibers begin to shrink at 95–105°F (35–40°C) and shrinkage increases almost linearly with temperature up to 175°F (80°C). The aggregation and gelation of sarcoplasmic proteins begins around 105°F (40°C) and finishs around 140°F (60°C). Connective tissues start shrinking around 140°F (60°C) but contract more intensely over 150°F (65°C).)

 

My question is if the temperature is taken above these temperatures but later returned to these temperatures does the reactions still apply.

 

Example: If I was to heat meat to 80c (to cook vegetables or sauce for example) then return the temperature to say 55c, will "....aggregation and gelation of sarcoplasmic proteins..." start to occur (or reoccur)?

I do understand any compression or shrinkage (and expelling of water) is probably not reversible.

 

 

[Duvel]

5 hours ago, Bernie said:

My question is if the temperature is taken above these temperatures but later returned to these temperatures does the reactions still apply.

The reaction the respective components of your item undergo are irreversible and will occur at said temperatures.

 

To stay with your example: If you take a piece of meat and drop it into a 80 oC bath it will reach the 55 oC internal temperature on its way to the target temperature, and said reactions will occur. Returning later to the lower temperature will not alter the result, as the reaction will have reached completion.

 

If the overall time above 55 oC (e.g. at 80!oC) however is insufficient and does not allow the reaction to come to completion, then a return to 55 oC will drive the described reaction to completion. In the extreme, think searing meat, were you expose the meat to very high temperatures for very short time, thus leaving most if the interior unaffected by these temperatures. 

[Smithy]

I just unearthed a sealed package of chicken breasts from sometime earlier this year when summer was a-cumin in. May or June. There's no date. (What was I thinking?) The label says it was cooked at 145F and I'm sure it cooked at that temperature for at least 2.5 hours, maybe 3 to 4 hours. Why I didn't label it more carefully is a mystery. Why I forgot it and allowed it to be buried in a crisper drawer is an even greater mystery.

 

My question is, can I count on it still to be pasteurized after all this time? Note that "all this time" consistutes a range of 4 - 5 months. The bag has no air gaps, no poofiness. It has been refrigerated.

[btbyrd]

I'd toss it. Per Doug Baldwin:

 

Quote

While keeping your food sealed in plastic pouches prevents recontamination after cooking, spores of Clostridium botulinum, C. perfringens, and B. cereus can all survive the mild heat treatment of pasteurization. Therefore, after rapid chilling, the food must either be frozen or held at

1. below 36.5°F (2.5°C) for up to 90 days,
2. below 38°F (3.3°C) for less than 31 days,
3. below 41°F (5°C) for less than 10 days, or
4. below 44.5°F (7°C) for less than 5 days

to prevent spores of non-proteolytic C. botulinum from outgrowing and producing deadly neurotoxin.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

Even I would pitch it if that old.

 

[Kim Shook]

I did super thick pork chops yesterday.  We were helping Jessica pack up her apartment (in preparation to moving home for a bit 😳), so they went for more like 5 hours than 4 (which is what I usually do) and they were perfect.  Not mushy at all, which I was afraid of.  

My only issue with the chops is that you get that squiggy stuff (I have no idea what it is) that oozes out of the sides of the chops and solidifies inside the cooking bag.  I scrape it off as best I can.  I also dislike the imprint of the pattern of the vacuum bag which is still on there after searing.  But those are minor complaints.  

[rotuts]

@Kim Shook 

 

Im very pleased you are working w SV.

 

it doesn't do everything , but what it does it does

 

perfectly , once you train your set-up

 

total time in a bath is + / -  by a reasonable amount

 

once you met the time for tenderness  that suits you.

 

""s white pork ""  ie the loin ( the larger muscle )

 

can be transformed from dry and flavorless

 

to something very different .

 

most people would like `140 F

 

but 135 and lower to 130 f   ( w the appropriate time change for tenderness )

 

tender , juicy , flavorful ( your rub or coating )

 

cheers

 

[Anna N]

Two small short ribs. 
 

[rotuts]

@Anna N 

 

excellent temp , Id say

 

and 44 hrs ?   tender Id bet.

 

hope to see the results.

 

as costs do go up :

 

thoughtful cooking

 

like this , matters .

Edited December 14, 2021 by rotuts (log)

[Orbit]

I got a sous vide for Xmas and have no idea how to use it. I ordered a Sous Vide Cookbook, but it's not here yet. I have a practical question: How do you use a wireless meat thermometer with a roast in a sous vide? Can it just go in the bag, inserted in the meat?

[rotuts]

everything you need to know a about SV

 

is right here on eG.

 

its a long thread , so take your time.

 

the longer the thread , the more info for you

 

to put a probe into meat that's sealed in a bag :

 

make sure your probe is as thin as possible.

 

use insulating foam tape , that you rip off a roll:

 

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Armacell-2-in-x-30-ft-R-1-Foam-Insulation-Tape-TAP18230/100539553?MERCH=REC-_-searchViewed-_-NA-_-100539553-_-N

 

this version is not unique , but you get the idea.

 

make sure the bag is dry , fix the sticky side to the bag

 

carefully insert your thin probe through the spongy part into the meat

 

and then carefully put the bag in the SV bath.

 

might take some experience so there is no leak

 

if you get a leak , re-bag the item and try again.

 

eventually you will realize timing the meat is not very

 

important once you understand the underlying principles of SV :

 

Time in the bath :  tenderness .

 

temp of the bath , thus eventually the bagged item

 

is doneness :  rare , medium etc.

 

and the time in the bath for meat is very forgiving

 

remember , if you set you bath to , say 135 F

 

the meat is not going to get to 140 F

 

the longer you leave th meat @ 135  the more tender it gets

 

within reason

 

 

Edited December 25, 2021 by rotuts (log)

[haresfur]

12 hours ago, Orbit said:

I got a sous vide for Xmas and have no idea how to use it. I ordered a Sous Vide Cookbook, but it's not here yet. I have a practical question: How do you use a wireless meat thermometer with a roast in a sous vide? Can it just go in the bag, inserted in the meat?

 

You can put a meat thermometer in the bag but there is usually no need to. The Sous Vide circulator/controller sets the temperature and then you just need to make sure you leave it in for long enough for the interior of the roast to reach that temperature and a bit longer to be sure the meat is pasteurized. You set the controller to the internal temperature you want when the meat is done. If you are cooking a tough cut of meat you will want to leave it in much longer until it becomes tender. The time will depend on the temperature you set and how big a piece of meat. But for a small roast beef you can probably go somewhere in the 4 to 8 hour range at medium rare temperature. One great thing about sous vide is that it is very forgiving if you leave the meat longer than necessary.

 

If you give us an idea on what cut of meat you want to cook, the size, and the doneness you like, people here can give suggestions for the cooking. Don't worry if there are some differences, You will still get an amazing result.

[lemniscate]

 

I was asked to provide dessert for Christmas Day dinner.

I did SV poached pears (in prickly pear/pomegranate juice), SV granny smith apples (same juice as mentioned), and pineapple chucks (in vanilla syrup).   It was served as a poached fruit plate.

 

Along with the fruit was SV cheececake in small mason jars (a la Chefsteps technique).  Those were topped with Christmas cookie crumbs (gifted cookies I wasn't going to eat).

 

I was also asked to provide the mashed potatoes.

SV yukon golds in olive oil and tarragon, chervil, thyme, marjoram, salt and pepper.  Mashed with a bit of butter and a bit of sour cream.  So decadent.

 

BTW, I did the fruit, cheesecakes, and potatoes a couple of days before Christmas to be better prepared and not stress on a Holiday.

 

 

[TdeV]

@Orbit, I first came to eGullet to learn about sous vide. First, one of the first books you need is Douglas Baldwin's Sous Vide for the Home Cook which will tell you many things you want to know. For a preview, that website will tell you lots. I have a bunch of other good sous vide cookbooks, let me know if you want to know more.

 

One thing @rotuts convinced me was to keep notebooks for Sous Vide (and Instant Pot and half dozen more). This has had many benefits, not the least of which was @btbyrd realizing that I was quoting him in my notebook. 😂

 

PM me and I will send you a note (with links) for my sous vide equipment set up.

 

One great discovery was that sous vide is very excellent for really tough cuts. eGullet links will take you further than any published cookbook; for example, lamb shoulder can be sous vided for 3 or 4 days for excellent results!

 

What great discoveries are in store!

 

[hotsaucerman]

Not to be that guy but I’m thinking of getting back into using sous vide style cooking in 2022 but was curious if there’s a non chamber sealer people love? I used to use a food saver (?) brand one but found it really couldn’t deal with any liquid (somewhat understandable) in the bag. Maybe I just need to save up the ~1k for a chamber one idk?

[KennethT]

1 hour ago, hotsaucerman said:

Not to be that guy but I’m thinking of getting back into using sous vide style cooking in 2022 but was curious if there’s a non chamber sealer people love? I used to use a food saver (?) brand one but found it really couldn’t deal with any liquid (somewhat understandable) in the bag. Maybe I just need to save up the ~1k for a chamber one idk?

I've used zip lock freezer bags for years with no problems.  You can squish the air out as you close the bag, or use the water displacement method leaving a corner of the bag open as you drop the bag into the water - the water squishes the air out the open corner - then seal the corner before it drops below the surface of the water.

[TdeV]

I don't know when I purchased my Weston Supply Vacuum Sealer (model 65-201), but I still have some whole nutmeg vacuumed in 2001. It's a semi-pro machine, so a lot more powerful than a food saver. I once gummed up the works (by vacuuming liquid) which was fixed by using a maintenance kit to replace the hoses (one of which I purchased in 2021). I suspect that this model is essentially the same thing (which may be why the maintenance kits are still available).

 

Now I'm more careful with vacuuming liquids. Also @PedroG posted about how to vacuum seal liquids; if you want the exact post, I'l have to look. Essentially, use a very deep bag, e.g. from a roll, and hang the bag off the end of the counter. The vacuum sealer now has to fight gravity to suck the liquid up the bag.

 

I find that an extra 8" or 12" is enough.

 

Sometimes I think I'd like to have a chamber vacuum sealer, but not quite enough to get one. YMMV.

[btbyrd]

I have a chamber vac and my advice would be the same as KennethT's: just use Ziploc freezer bags and the displacement method. Unless you're going to try to store something for an extended period of time, there's little advantage to using a vacuum machine. The one area where this gets dicey is cooking vegetables at higher temps (85C+) where zippies can start to get soft and seams can fail. For that though, an inexpensive edge sealer would suffice. If you're cooking at normal protein temps, ziptops are the way to go.

[gfweb]

4 hours ago, hotsaucerman said:

Not to be that guy but I’m thinking of getting back into using sous vide style cooking in 2022 but was curious if there’s a non chamber sealer people love? I used to use a food saver (?) brand one but found it really couldn’t deal with any liquid (somewhat understandable) in the bag. Maybe I just need to save up the ~1k for a chamber one idk?

 

I second zip-loc.

but if you want non chamber vac...Cabela's has a good one with a piston pump...cited in the vac sealer tread

[ElsieD]

I have a well marbled sirloin tip roast, graded AAA.  I want to cook it sous vide but the suggested timings I have found  are all over the map.  The temperature will be 134F.  How long do I cook it for?  It will not be pre-seared unless someone tells me I really, really should.  Thanks!

[rotuts]

@ElsieD 

 

how thick is it ?

 

Ive done ST flat cut  @ 131 F for 6 hours and its delicious .

 

is it , 2 " thick ?  do you want the final result to look like a roast ?

 

if over 3 " thick , Id cut in 1/2 , with the grain and make two steaks

 

but it depends on the thickness .  

 

picture ' as is ? ' for comparison to flap meat ?

[lemniscate]

13 hours ago, ElsieD said:

I have a well marbled sirloin tip roast, graded AAA.  I want to cook it sous vide but the suggested timings I have found  are all over the map.  The temperature will be 134F.  How long do I cook it for?  It will not be pre-seared unless someone tells me I really, really should.  Thanks!

 

Here's the recommendation from my Joule app:

134F desired internal temp: 

 

Fresh (unfrozen)

1/2" thick = 30 min

1" thick = 1 hour

2" thick = 2 hours

 

Frozen

1/2" = 45 min

1" thick = 1.5 hours

2" thick =  3 hours

 

These are the minimum times.  Extrapolate as needed.

Edited March 24, 2022 by lemniscate (log)