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The Terrine Topic


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#31 petite tête de chou

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Posted 15 April 2005 - 01:59 PM

Are there specific ingredients or preparation that make a terrine uniquely French?

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I don't think so -- I just believe the French perfected the art... :wub:

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I wasn't sure. Thanks! :smile:
Shelley: Would you like some pie?
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#32 Adam Balic

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Posted 15 April 2005 - 02:25 PM

1st - Appologies the French nation for non-French terrine on the French board.....

I am attending the Leeds Food Symposium tomorrow, this year the topic is cerals. Anyway, as it is a meeting of food history I made a 17th century 'steak pie' (delegates provide the food :wub:). Essentially a terrine. Fresh from the oven it looks like this:

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It should look like this:

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As you can see I have made some mistakes and this is going to be given for lunch to some of the best historical recreation cooks on the planet..... :unsure:

I will take photos of the interior if I am not too shamed.

So nobody else should fear making terrines. :biggrin:

Edited by Adam Balic, 15 April 2005 - 02:42 PM.


#33 malarkey

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Posted 15 April 2005 - 02:27 PM

I'd love to become proficient at making terrines. Any other cookbooks you all would recommend to help a beginner terrine maker?? I'm not afraid of complicated recipes...

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#34 Adam Balic

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Posted 15 April 2005 - 02:41 PM

English language books are few and far between. On of the best 'Pâtés & Terrines by Friedrich W. Ehlert, Edouard Lonque, et al...' has been out of print for ~ 20 years.

I have seen some interesting French and Italian books, but don't own any.

Making basic terrine is easy, but some examples are require a great deal of skill and art.

#35 Carolyn Tillie

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Posted 15 April 2005 - 03:19 PM

English language books are few and far between. On of the best 'Pâtés & Terrines by Friedrich W. Ehlert, Edouard Lonque, et al...' has been out of print for ~ 20 years.

I have seen some interesting French and Italian books, but don't own any.

Making basic terrine is easy, but some examples are require a great deal of skill and art.

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Well, if you want to get serious, you could go to Book Finder.com which has several copies of this book we all suggest:

1 Alibris
[United States] ISBN: 0688038964
New York Hearst Books 1984 Hard Cover Very Good/Very Good 4to-over 9 3/4 "-12" tall 0688038964 Very good condition hardcover book with a small 1/8th inch burr on lower edge of the front board. There is a touch of rubbing at base of spine. Clean bright dust jacket has a closed 1/2 inch tear at the lower front edge. Keywords: Cookbooks & Dieting COOKERY GERMAN COOKING REGIONAL ETHNIC Cook Books Cookbooks $74.95
2 Friendly Used Books
via Abebooks ISBN: 0688038964
Publisher: New York: Hearst Books, 1984; Hard Cover. 4to - over 9 3/4 " - 12" tall. Very good condition hardcover book with a small 1/8th inch burr on lower edge of the front board. There is a touch of rubbing at base of spine. Clean bright dust jacket has a closed 1/2 inch tear at the lower front edge. $75.00
3 Alibris
[United States] New York Hearst Books 1984 First Edition Cloth Very Good/Very Good 4to 0688038964x 192 pp. Tail of spine and bottom corners bumped, small tear at tail of spine, edgewear, book slightly shaken. Dust jacket lightly worn at corners, edges, head and tail of spine, small hole at top right corner of front, some light soiling. How to master the art of charcuterie. Keywords: Cookbooks Charcuterie $124.95
4 Cellar Stories Bookstore
via Abebooks Publisher: New York: Hearst Books, 1984; Cloth. Very Good/Very Good. First Edition. 4to. 192 pp. Tail of spine and bottom corners bumped, small tear at tail of spine, edgewear, book slightly shaken. Dust jacket lightly worn at corners, edges, head and tail of spine, small hole at top right corner of front, some light soiling. How to master the art of charcuterie. $125.00



#36 bleudauvergne

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Posted 16 April 2005 - 02:27 AM

The Terrine is basically a family of dishes that includes, pâté en croûte. How can what we normally find defined as a "terrine" be differentiated from a "pâté en croûte"? Mainly what is offered as a "terrine" contains distinct elements often prepared seperately and then layered instead of a more or less homogenous mix which we would define as a pâté. The name Terrine comes from the vessel it is cooked in. The pâté en croûte is indeed a type of terrine.

One French book on my shelf entitled simply "Terrines", contains recipes for terrines, pâté, pâté en croûte, rillettes, a recipe for a mousse a la gelée, a flan, and several layered fruit desserts which are unmoulded and sliced crossways to be served. As you can see the definition is quite loose, and large. Terrines are an important part of French cuisine, but as Adam ilustrates, the same tradition of the pâté exists in England (and Scotland of course), and in my mind they can and should be grouped together. Some exploration of the etymology of the word might help as well.

The image of the galantine :

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Another French cookbook circa 1900, in the chapter entitles " pâté and terrines" includes recipes for "bouchées", which are a small version of the vol au vent, pâté chaud, pâté en terrine (which is served cold), "terrine ou pâté de foies de canards", various other terrines which are layered larger cuts of meats, timbales, tourtes, and ending with the vol au vent. There seems to be a blurring of the meaning of the words pâté, which is the minced and seasoned meat, and pâte, which is the croute, and two terms that seem to be intricately intertwined as I examine the cookbooks I have dating back into the 1800s.

As for sources in the English language for recipes that might already be on your shelf for the preparation of pâté and terrines, a nice introduction is Richard Olney's chapter entititled "Cold Terrines, Pâtés, Mousses". In an essay preceding his recipes, he gives a historical rundown of notable turning points as the meaning and presentation of the French terrine has developed and what it means today. Julia Child has a chapter in her Mastering the Art in Volume I which briefly covers pâté en croute. Louisette Bertholle, in her "French Cooking for All", has a chapter entitled Game Pâtés, which has some interesting recipes. Paula Wolfert's Southwest France tome contains several terrine recipes. Wolfgang Puck also has two terrine recipes in his "Modern French Cooking", one of which is quite interesting, a "Duck terrine with Hazelnuts and green peppercorns."

(note I have used accents in this post but will not in the future to enable the search feature to work properly for any of these terms.)

#37 bleudauvergne

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Posted 16 April 2005 - 02:35 AM

1st - Appologies the French nation for non-French terrine on the French board.....

I am attending the Leeds Food Symposium tomorrow, this year the topic is cerals. Anyway, as it is a meeting of food history I made a 17th century 'steak pie' (delegates provide the food :wub:). Essentially a terrine. Fresh from the oven it looks like this:

Posted Image

So nobody else should fear making terrines. :biggrin:

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It looks Amazing, Adam! :biggrin:

#38 JanGilbert59

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Posted 16 April 2005 - 09:28 AM

Adam, those are absolutely stunning!  I've been a maniacal terrine maker for years but never got around to making any fish ones. Back when I worked in a bookstore, I acquired the book Pâtés & Terrines by Friedrich W. Ehlert, Edouard Lonque, et al...

I bought it new at $25 and am shocked to see it used for $75! I guess it is as precious a book as I take it for - amazingly erudite and well-researched with stunning photographs. It is true eye-candy and one of my favorite books to just languish through with a cup of tea. It covers forcemeats, pâtés and terrines, aspic jellies and sauces, galantines, and non-traditional versions including bouchees, vol-au-vents, porozhki, kulebyaka, and English pies.

Adam, the one you might appreciate that I've always wanted to try is a complicated recipe of a stuffed boar's head where, basically, the head of a boar is shaved, stitched up, and most of the internal bone structure removed. The snout is stuffed with a forcemeat of boar, the entire head is covered with a dark brown chaudfroid or brown aspic, and the snout itself is sliced.

Now I'm inspired to make something this weekend!

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Good Lord! Who do you serve that dish to? A picky grandchild, perhaps an uninvited drop-in.

#39 highchef

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Posted 16 April 2005 - 10:47 AM

Ah, this (or something similar) is in the TIME-LIFE 'terrine' book, so I will try this soon.

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I have that series! I'd forgotten all about it. thank you for reminding me. I also have foods of the world packed away somewhere and there's bound to be a good recipe or 2 in there as well. Thanks again.

#40 bleudauvergne

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Posted 16 April 2005 - 11:41 AM

With good intentions we arrived at the market too late to get the fish. I was itching to get started so I decided to prepare a rabbit terrine. Instead of a whole rabbit I got a couple of saddles and legs from the butcher. He had everything I needed, the bard, the fat pork, the cured ham. I had all of these great ideas based on a rouleaux I was doing for a while there, and was going to create a brand new terrine. I deboned the rabbit, and referred to Olney's recipe for the panade. I noticed that in his rabbit terrine he marinates the rabbit and I wasn't going to do that. So at the last minute I changed my mind and decided to marinate the rabbit overnightl, since his recipe looked much better than what I had in mind I would do. So the rabbit's marinating, the fat pork is minced, and the stock is simmering. Tomorrow I will assemble it, and stick with my original idea about something I want to do, but for the most part I am going to follow Olney's recipe (more or less). :smile:

#41 Ptipois

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Posted 16 April 2005 - 12:51 PM

The English pork pie is basically a terrine after all.

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Technically, it is more a pâté. The original pâtés of France were encased in dough and kept for a long time. Now the distinctions are somewhat blurred, but it is commonly understood that a terrine is a preparation of meats/fish/forcemeats/vegetables etc. baked in an earthenware dish (the terrine), and a pâté en croûte is baked in a case of dough in some mold or terrine. But some preparations called "pâtés" are actually terrines, so there you go.
I think the main difference between French-style and English-style pâtés/meat pies is the dough but basically they have the same origins. French style: the dough is thick and hard, meant to isolate the inside and preserve its flavors, and in the case of pâté en croûte is it not meant to be eaten. The English hot-water raised dough is delicious to eat but it is not used in French cooking. French pâtés encased in puff pastry or butter/lard shortcrust are generally eaten warm, dough and all. They are lovely old-fashioned dishes, worth reviving.

#42 Abra

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Posted 16 April 2005 - 03:32 PM

Oh, these are beautiful! I've never made a terrine, and now I have to get going on them. I don't have accents, sorry, but one question I have is about how to keep the filling from shrinking away from the croute - the pates en croute in Las Halles photo, which are all presumably made by professionals, all seem to have this problem.

Besides the book recommendations already made, does anyone have a good online source for molds? I'll be away from cooking, and maybe even from here if I'm unlucky with my connection, for a couple of weeks, but I'd love to try some terrines when I get home.

#43 edsel

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Posted 16 April 2005 - 06:33 PM

... one question I have is about how to keep the filling from shrinking away from the croute - the pates en croute in Las Halles photo, which are all presumably made by professionals, all seem to have this problem. View Post

It's not a "problem", it's a fact of life. :biggrin: You'll note in the "Les Halles" photos that the gap has been nicely filled in with aspic. The filling always pulls away from the pastry shell, and the aspic is poured in after baking to keep the whole affair from caving in. Use a lovely, properly seasoned aspic and the band-aid becomes a flourish!

Wish I could help you with sourcing the molds. I bought mine years ago from a mail-order source. I have the old-fashioned tinned variety (held together by little clips). I'm sure someone must be selling those on the web. I believe that Le Crueset has an enameled terrine that should work for the rectangular style, though it won't impart the cool herring-bone pattern to the finished product.

Lucy, thanks for starting this discussion. By coincidence, I picked up a second-hand copy of Olney's "Simple French Food" today at my local book store today. Now I know which chapter to read first. :rolleyes: I love the way he makes the terrine of veal sweetbreads sound almost not worth making. Then he makes it sound so worth making.

I would add another reference book to the list: Jane Grigson's The Art of Making Sausages, Pâtés, and other Charcuterie. An old standby.

#44 PS

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Posted 17 April 2005 - 06:16 AM

I've followed Jane Grigson's Charcuterie and French Pork Cooking a few times, and it's worked fine, although I tend to undersalt as well. It's surprising how much you need to put in these things.

Adam, do you have any suggestions for where to get caul in Edinburgh? I've tried a couple of butchers to no avail.
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#45 Charlie O

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Posted 17 April 2005 - 07:08 AM

It seems that a lot of terrines call for pistachios.  I wonder why that is.  They are very good in a rabbit terrine...

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Hazelnuts go very well too. Patricia Wells in Bistro Cooking has a recipe for rabbit terrine that has hazelnuts, some crushed juniper berries and a bit of gin along with other flavours. It's one of my favourites :smile:

#46 SWISS_CHEF

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Posted 17 April 2005 - 01:11 PM

I have to admit, I have not made a paté in a very long time because I shop across the border in France and they always have a simple country paté for €2.50/kilo. It is delicious and everyone loves it and for that price I couldn't be bothered to make it. Besides, when I make it myself I hate to see how much fat goes into a good paté. :shock:

Never be scared to buy the cheap paté from a French grocery store.

#47 Adam Balic

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Posted 17 April 2005 - 01:27 PM

Adam, do you have any suggestions for where to get caul in Edinburgh? I've tried a couple of butchers to no avail.

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I would love to know as well. I have asked a few times and the butchers say that it is possible, but resturants tend to pre-order it (which ones I wonder, I have never seen any evidence of it). Oddly I was taking to a friend about this today he mentioned that he got his from a Turkish butcher. Sadly, this is in London.

Good back-fat is also an issue.

#48 Adam Balic

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Posted 17 April 2005 - 01:35 PM

The English pork pie is basically a terrine after all.

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Technically, it is more a pâté. The original pâtés of France were encased in dough and kept for a long time. Now the distinctions are somewhat blurred, but it is commonly understood that a terrine is a preparation of meats/fish/forcemeats/vegetables etc. baked in an earthenware dish (the terrine), and a pâté en croûte is baked in a case of dough in some mold or terrine. But some preparations called "pâtés" are actually terrines, so there you go.
I think the main difference between French-style and English-style pâtés/meat pies is the dough but basically they have the same origins. French style: the dough is thick and hard, meant to isolate the inside and preserve its flavors, and in the case of pâté en croûte is it not meant to be eaten. The English hot-water raised dough is delicious to eat but it is not used in French cooking. French pâtés encased in puff pastry or butter/lard shortcrust are generally eaten warm, dough and all. They are lovely old-fashioned dishes, worth reviving.

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More information on English pies Ivan Day's Pies

Quite right. Orginally, many of the crusts of the English style pies were not meant to be eaten either. The pie was a way of preserving meat or protecting it for transportation. English pork pies are a survivor of a greater tradition, yesterday I heard a lecture on the history of English pies and it was mentioned that there was some evidence to suggest that the crust were not always eaten even in small pies ('chewits') and in some cases was recycled.........

Edited by Adam Balic, 17 April 2005 - 01:38 PM.


#49 bleudauvergne

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Posted 17 April 2005 - 02:36 PM

Here are the pictures of the rabbit terrine which I put together this weekend. :smile:

The process is relatively easy and does not require any special skills. There are many very simple recipes for terrines, and this does require steps, but I can say that the whole process is simple in terms of technique. I read several recipes for rabbit terrine, and had begun the project with the idea that I would simply do what struck me as I worked my way through the process, so things changed this way and that as the process developed. It actually did not take long once I got working nor was it difficult. The most technical thing about the whole thing is boning the rabbit, and with a shrp knife, it's a pleasure.

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The evening before, as I had dinner on, I took some time to bone the rabbit, and chop the poitrine, as well as a few slices of cured ham. I didn't measure the ingredients, since I was making it to fit my loaf cake pan, I don't have any special terrine pans. I had two saddles and two hind legs. I boned and chopped the meat from one saddle, and removed the meat carefully in two pieces from one side of the saddle, and flattened the haunch filet. There is one large flat thin filet that extends down from the ribs, which is darker meat, and a larger thicker white meat morsel along the haunch that can be flattened by slicing in and folding in increments. These I set aside and then minced the rest of the meat. I prepared a marinade as follows:

1/4 cup white wine
1/4 cup olive oil
1 T. good herbes de provence
2 bay leaves
some crumbled sage
chopped parsley
pepper and salt

The rabbit, including the larger pieces, was set in the marinade, covered with plastic wrap in the bowl, and left to marinate overnight.

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With the bones, I made a small stock, with onion, carrot, the skin from the ham, some leek greens, parsley, bay leaf, and some sage. This was simmered for an hour and then left to cool overnight. The next morning, I strained the stock and set it to reduce.

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I then made the duxelles, (Olney does not put duxelles in his rabbit terrine, nor does he use cream when he does prepare duxelles, but I like to do that) which contains:

2 T. butter
1/2 minced white onion
about 200g champignons de Paris (white mushrooms)
salt & pepper
3T. creme fraiche
1T. lemon juice
2T. chopped fresh parsley

Mince the mushrooms (I did this in 30 seconds in the moulinex), and start the onions and butter over medium heat until they soften and start giving off their juice. Add the minced mushrooms, and let simmer, stirring from time to time, until they release their juice, continuing until all of the juice is evaporated. You have to watch it more closely near the end, it takes about 15 minutes from beginning to end. Add the creme fraiche to bind it, the lemon juice to brighten it, and season. Add the parsley at the end.

Posted ImagePosted Image

Then make the panade:

1 clove of garlic
about 100g. of yesterday's bread, crusts removed

Mash the garlic and the bread in the mortar.

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By this time, the stock should be just about reduced to where you want it, you should have 2 or 3 tablespoons.

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Add the reduced stock and mush it till it's a paste.

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I then added a bit of water to this and stirred it over heat to make it smoother. I reduced it until it was a paste.

The rest is simple, I just put together the forcemeat:

the 250g. chopped fresh poitrine (which is the meat that bacon's made from but it's not smoked)
a couple of thin slices cured ham (de savoie, proscuitto, or country ham)
the duxelles
the panade
a splash of cognac
seasonings:

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nutmeg, pepper, a good dose of salt, some creole seasoning (or cayenne if you haven't made any creole seasoning), and some more herbes de provence

and some pistachios which I parboiled and peeled before roughly chopping

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Once that was combined with the chopped rabbit, I spread the flattened and marinated filets with dijon mustard and rolled up some carrots and parsley in the flattened filets which had marinated overnight:

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These were then rolled
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The meat was very pliable and they rolled up nice and easily, and stayed put. If I had known they would roll so nicely I would have done at least 2 more like that because they will have a nice effect in the terrine.

I then simply assembled the terrine:

This fat is called "bard" in France.

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Fill in the bottom and make a channel for the rolls to be fit in end to end. I would have made more rolls and fit them in if I had the chance. I can even imagine making three rolls, and putting them in in such a way that they would make a heart shape in the terrine. But I didn't do that. I just had enough to do one roll in the middle. (the rolls looked strangely phallic and I didn't upload them but if you really want to see them I will upload the pictures.)

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After the rolls were put in, I took the pits out of a few marinated black olives I had in the fridge and did one row for a stripe of color.

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Then rest of the stuffing was mounded in, the bard folded over the whole thing, and it went into a bain marie for 1.5 hours. After that I fitted a piece of cardboard covered with foil the size of the inside of my tin, placed to glasses on top, and weighed it down with a big book. I followed Richard Olney's advice to do this over a pan, and I got lots of juice which went into that night's soup. When that was done and it was cool, I poured just enough duck fat over the top to seal it and it's in the fridge now. I want to cut it on Friday, we're going to have some people over for dinner. :biggrin:

#50 bleudauvergne

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 01:54 AM

OK the pics are up. I don't want to cut into it before its time, so that will be this Friday. I think the next terrine will be a veggie terrine.

#51 petite tête de chou

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 03:26 AM

Incredible.

I will now believe that even *I* can prepare a terrine. Thank you Lucy.

I've seen quite a few terrines that seem to use gelatin, but I see that you didn't.
Does it serve another purpose aside from holding the terrine together and adding a lovely gloss?

What is "bard?" Is it used for other dishes?
Shelley: Would you like some pie?
Gordon: MASSIVE, MASSIVE QUANTITIES AND A GLASS OF WATER, SWEETHEART. MY SOCKS ARE ON FIRE.

Twin Peaks

#52 spaghetttti

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 03:54 AM

^ I was just about to ask the same question - is bard = caul? Oh my, as usual Lucy, your photos are exquisite! :wub:
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#53 Adam Balic

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 04:47 AM

"Bard" is the thin slices of pork backfat that you can see lining the terrine. It takes a little practice to get it in such lovely thin sheets as bleudauvergne has here.

bleudauvergne - wonderful photographs of the process, really really nice.

I mentioned galantine making for today, unfortunately I have too much work on this week, so I will have to put it off until ~28th, sorry.

#54 bleudauvergne

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 05:14 AM

"Bard" is the thin slices of pork backfat that you can see lining the terrine. It takes a little practice to get it in such lovely thin sheets as bleudauvergne has here.

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Practice - or a butcher who will do it for you. If you explain to your butcher what you are doing they will normally cut it for you.

Caul is the lacy membrane that you wrap pates in (crépine). A butcher that buys the whole animal and carves them will have this, and if you have a butcher who normally sources offal, he can get it too. It comes from inside the abdominal cavity of the animal.

#55 Adam Balic

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 05:20 AM

Sadly not the butchers in Edinburgh, to my knowledge. As it is difficult to get fatback of the correct size etc, I mostly resort to green streaky bacon. :sad:

#56 bleudauvergne

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 05:22 AM

I'll bring some next time I'm up your way, Adam. :smile:

I have misspelled "bard" - it should be spelled "barde".

#57 SethG

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 07:10 PM

If you'd like to see what caul fat looks like, you could click here, to a short pictorial tour of the duck terrine I made last year. This was part of a sort of blog I did of some cooking projects I undertook while I was home on paternity leave.

This year's duck terrine came out just like last years'-- delicious! I may have to try rabbit.

I'm surprised caul fat is so hard to find in the UK. I get it here in Brooklyn at Esposito's, a store known for the cured Italian sausages it makes. They don't sell the caul fat retail but they've been pleased to sell it (and some much better fatback than I could get at the grocery store) to me for next to nothing.

Edited by SethG, 18 April 2005 - 07:14 PM.

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#58 M. Lucia

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 07:34 PM

This is a really wonderful thread- thank you for your thoroughness Lucy.

I make a vegetable terrine that is great for a light lunch.
Basically I layer roasted vegetables (red peppers, zucchini/courgettes and yellow squash, aubergine) with some chevre and tapenade (black olive). Spinkle herbs between the layers, weight, etc. Then I serve it with a parsley sauce. I love the presentation, it is stunningly colorful.

I never knew about all the types and history of terrines.
It's funny, they kind of remind me of all the aspics and gelled salads in the south U.S.

#59 bleudauvergne

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 01:01 AM

If you'd like to see what caul fat looks like, you could click here, to a short pictorial tour of the duck terrine I made last year. 

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Seth that step by step photo essay on your duck terrine looks amazing! Did you put the recipe in the Gullet? I am going to wait to see the results of the rabbit terrine to make sure it really turns out well before I post the full recipe.

I truly encourage anyone to go and take a look at Seth's process of making the duck terrine, it looked great. You cooked it in the bain marie, yes?

I make a vegetable terrine that is great for a light lunch.
Basically I layer roasted vegetables (red peppers, zucchini/courgettes and yellow squash, aubergine) with some chevre and tapenade (black olive). Spinkle herbs between the layers, weight, etc. Then I serve it with a parsley sauce. I love the presentation, it is stunningly colorful.


A veggie terrine is what I'd like to do next. Do you normally use gelatine? How long do you let it sit before you serve it?

#60 FoodMan

FoodMan
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
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Posted 19 April 2005 - 06:44 AM

Great thread people! I am a novice terrine maker, as in I bought a Le Creuset terrine mold a couple of months ago and so far made one terrine, a basic pork and veal one from Julia's Mastering the art,

Here are a couple of pics:
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I have been planning on making a duck or rabbit terrine next. I am hopping to get more tips from this thread.

Seth- yours looks great, did you use Peterson's recipe from his Duck cookbook? I have the book and I want to try his recipe. I am not sure which one though, he has a tradional one and one with parsley. The both look excellent.

Elie

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