73 replies to this topic

[bunny]

does anyone know how to use this stuff to make powders.

i have tried and tried and can't seem to do it. i keep getting a big gluteness mess. any help would be great.

[xdrixn]

2 parts starch 1 part fat by weight, robocoupe and tami.

Edited by xdrixn, 10 July 2006 - 11:34 PM.

[BryanZ]

I would love to get a bit more clarification on this explanation. I think I understand what's being said, but not really. Anyone?

[allister]

2 parts starch - 1 part fat by weight is the ratio no?
Then spin in a robot coupe and pass through a tamis - i assume this would be aerating the powder no?

here is a sample recipe where you can see the ratios at work.
Powdered Orange Blossom Yogurt

Thoroughly mix 1/2 cup of vanilla yogurt and 2 Tbsp of orange blossom water. Add 1 cup of tapioca maltodextrin (or tapioca starch or tapioca flour if you cant find tapioca maltodextrin). Mix with a fork until thoroughly incorporated and a powder consistency is reached. You might need more or less tapioca powder.

[s_sevilla]

Is just plain Maltodextrin the same as Tapioca Maltodextrin? Can they be used interchangeably for the same applications?

[jbehmoaras]

What do you guys think of using this to dry up some sour cream and try to make some chips with sour cream powder lightly seasoned on when chips come right out of the fryer

[BryanZ]

2 parts starch - 1 part fat by weight is the ratio no?
Then spin in a robot coupe and pass through a tamis - i assume this would be aerating the powder no?

here is a sample recipe where you can see the ratios at work. 
Powdered Orange Blossom Yogurt

Thoroughly mix 1/2 cup of vanilla yogurt and 2 Tbsp of orange blossom water. Add 1 cup of tapioca maltodextrin (or tapioca starch or tapioca flour if you cant find tapioca maltodextrin). Mix with a fork until thoroughly incorporated and a powder consistency is reached. You might need more or less tapioca powder.

By fat do we mean creamy substance with some fat in it? Is this why the powdered caramel works at Alinea because of the milk in caramel?

[s_sevilla]

I've been experimenting a bit with the tapioca starch while I wait on some maltodextrin to come in.....the starch really isn't very ideal, you can definitely taste the starchiness in foods you mix it with.

I'm wondering about the powdered yogurt: This might just be because of the starch in tapioca starch vs. the pure maltodextrin, but whenever I mix it I only get a nice pasty mass. I'm using a nice thick full-fat yogurt.....not quite as rich as greek style, but rich nontheless. I think you really need to reduce the amount of water as much as possible before mixing the maltodextrin.....it really is more of a fat stabilizer.....at the same time, I have found and it is well documented that Maltodextrin takes on the flavors of whatever it touches very well, so this can be put to good use in some form. Back on the yogurt, this would probably work if you made yogurt cheese and let the whey drain off while resting in the fridge.

[Digijam]

By fat do we mean creamy substance with some fat in it?

Exactly. It will absorb up to twice its weight in fact and still remain 'dry' - it clumps to a breadcrumb consistency in the same way as a roux, and can then be passed through a sieve to make a fine powder.

It will go paste-like and dissolve in water, though (the powder is also used to make pure carb drinks for weighlifters). So the fattier the liquid you're mixing it with the better. I'm guessing Marc Powell, the guy who came up with that rose water recipe, was using really high fat yoghurt.

The easiest way to use it is to mix with flavoured oils. Here's it's blended with some basil oil I'd already made to create a sort of soil - I already had tomato powder on the plate, so wanted something with a different consistency.

[chefadamg]

How did you do the tomato powder?

[Digijam]

How did you do the tomato powder?

By cheating - it's just a store-bought jar.

Normally I'd dehydrate and grind. Thomas Keller suggests microwaving the tomoto trimmings as a quick option, but I haven't tried it.

[s_sevilla]

for those looking for a very cheap source, check out www.bulkfoods.com. they have a bunch of dried and dehydrated products as well as baking and pastry chemicals. I usually buy Maltodextrin and protein powders from them to make budget energy drink mix for myself and my cycling buddies. Be warned....you may end up with 50 pounds of this stuff on your hands if you click the wrong boxes.

[aidensnd]

Did anyone see the food network challenge Best Chef competition that was in Miami? One of the chefs made olive oil powder by stirring something into the oil and it turned into powder. Anyone know what it was? I accidentaly erased the show before I could go back and rewatch it. I'm hoping to do something similar with a fruit base if possible. Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance.

[CookinBenny]

They stuff they use, i think is called maltodextrin(sp). Its a modified food starch. As to what ratios to use im not sure of, but i would totaly be interested in knowing. The possibilites could be endless!

[alanamoana]

in the "general food topics" there's a thread "diary of the life of a cia student" or something like that...there's discussion of that in there. if i can find it, i'll make a link for it.

edited to add:
what xdrixn says below.

from what i understand, the tapioca maltodextrin absorbs the oil so that it becomes dry and powdery, but when you put it in your mouth it melts again. sam mason does peanut butter "soil" this way, i think.

Edited by alanamoana, 07 September 2006 - 11:38 PM.

[xdrixn]

it's tapioca maltodextrin made by national starch, they call it n-zorbit. for about 225 bucks you can have your very own 50# box...or ask them or sample.

[aidensnd]

Just got my sample from national. Anyone have a starting point for a ratio of maltodextrin to the base?

Thanks in advance.

[nicolekaplan]

you just put some malto in a bowl, like 1/4 cup and then add in a few drops of your fat and whisk until it resembles streusel. if you add too much liquid it will be like overmixing streusel where it all clumps together. you will have it by the second or third trial. if you love it you can buy 1# bags from le sanctuaire in san fransisco. i will not comment on my thoughts about it's results. it best left to try and taste

[nicolekaplan]

i forgot to add:

fruit powders are made best from freeze dried fruit ground in the food processor. they are not related to the malto powders as that is purely a relationship with fats. freeze dried fruit can be found either at places like whole foods, or from terra spices

[sugarbuzz]

http://www.starchefs...uez/index.shtml

[kevinAspork]

for a good result use a 1-1 or up to a 2-1 tapioka to fat ratio
it works best in a robot coupe or food processor
try caramel or truffle oil, its freaky good

[aidensnd]

for a good result use a 1-1 or up to a 2-1 tapioka to fat ratio
it works best in a robot coupe or food processor
try caramel or truffle oil, its freaky good

For the caramel what would it be binding to? I'm guessing it would have to be a caramel with cream and or butter, yes? Too bad the sample I got wasn't bigger....

[ExpatC]

For fruit powders the technique is very simple and, unfortunately for the NEW "Chemistry Cuisine", can be done real easily with dry heat. If you work in a place with a plate warmer table just dry your fruit there and grind it in a clean spice grinder then run it through a tea strainer.

i would suggest starting with Orange Zest. It will get you a sexy result for the first time. Peel the zest with a veg peeler, no pith, lay it on parchment or a silpat in a single layer, leave it for a day or night in your plate warmer (if you are at home try a very low oven over night). When it is completely dehydrated grind/seive.

Sometimes I blanch/shock the zest (this is necessary with limes for a good color). If you use beet juice in anything, just juice the beets and dry the pulp in the same way. Ginger makes a great aromatic powder also. Carrots are possible too but flavorless. And store the aromatic powders in an airtight container or all the scent will disappear.

I am not sure if that was what you were asking. For the tapioco maltodextrin technique most straight fruits would not have the fat requisite for the chemical reaction, I think.

Edited by ExpatC, 16 September 2006 - 11:54 PM.

[aidensnd]

Cool. I make strawberry powder this way, dehydrate and grind with a touch of sugar. Was just thinking it would be cool if there was something like the maltodextrin which would work with non-fat based liquids.

[kevinAspork]

The tapioka binds to the fat in the caramel.
it works with any fat, in fact tapioka starch will work too but its not a neutral flavor
I definatly recomend using this only with a food processor of some type
it's so much easy-er

[kevinAspork]

I will get you a source for 2#'s on tuesday nightfor about $12

[s_sevilla]

maltodextrin is a complex sugar, used a lot in sports drinks because its glycemic index is lower than other sugars (for those who would like to know: The glycemic index is a scale that rates how fast a particular sugar or starch raises your blood sugar in relation to a similer dosage of glucose. 100 means that your body metabolizes it as fast as glucose, 0 means the ingredient has no immediate effect on blood sugar) It has about 10% the sweetness of glucose. I would assume tapioca maltodextrin is the same, but they like to think that because they start with tapioca root that it is a more natural product. You really need a very high fat content for this to work. Any water in the mix and you end up with a slurry goopy mess.

Commercially, because it binds to fats and other similer molecules, Maltodextrin is used as a flavor carrier....I haven't ventured to try, but I bet if you put some of this stuff in cold smoking chamber you could get some mighty good smoke flavor in it, and then be able to use that a variety of ways. If anyone knows if this works I would love to hear about it.

[Sethro]

I will get you a source for 2#'s on tuesday nightfor about  $12

That's great, thank you.

[chiantiglace]

Tapioca Malto dextrin works with a lack of moisture/water. It will work sufficiently with caramelized sugar since all of the water has been cooked out.

I believe Alex Stupak did this for a special creme brulee dish while he was at Alinea.

[kevinAspork]

Unfortunatly I ate at alinea after chef Stupak left, not that the desserts were bad, anyways I believe that the only tapioca powdered dish was with Mastic at least I think so