127 replies to this topic

[Ptipois]

Poulet de Bresse site.

It's kind of campy, the visuals I mean.

It's hilarious.
Another slow Flash website where you have time to fall asleep before you can click again.
Some web designer must have charged a fortune for this
There are interesting recipes, though.

[bleudauvergne]

Thanks for the link to those recipes!

Tonight I think I'll prepare the Poulet de Bresse Sous le Croute de Sel from that website. I've never prepared anything sous le croute de sel, so if anyone has any advice about how to do it or how this is supposed to come out, please let me know.

Hmmm

[FaustianBargain]

Thanks for the link to those recipes!

Tonight I think I'll prepare the Poulet de Bresse Sous le Croute de Sel from that website.  I've never prepared anything sous le croute de sel, so if anyone has any advice about how to do it or how this is supposed to come out, please let me know. 

Hmmm 

This is how I did it for Pigeonneau en Croute de Sel au Chou Rouge. I'll skip the chou rouge accompaniment recipe.

This was what I did for a salt crust for two squabs...tiny birds, those....

1kg flour(T45), 600g coarse sea salt
7 egg whites, 450ml water

also, chopped rosemary for the aroma.

First, I deboned the pigeonneau until it is like a jacket of sorts. Stuffed it with a farce. The carcass went in for the jus. The idea is to hermetically seal the bird to keep in the 'juice'. I am thinking it can also be done without deboning the bird. It is such a pain anyways..lovely, but painful. Also, the squab tastes much stronger than any chicken. I kept thinking that I need to stuff a bird with figs. All I could think of was FIGS. Weird, that..anyways..

For the farce:

300g fine sausage meat

100g fresh duck foie gras
50g chicken liver
50g sweated shallots in duck fat

2 chopped garlic
10g chopped truffle(heh)

7g salt
1g white ground pepper

5 juniper berries, finely chopped
pinch of mixed spice
dash of Madeira

Here is an egullet thread I started about Croute de Sel.

edited to add: Here is a recipe that I have always wanted to try, but never have..*


La Volaille demi-deuil(la Mere Fillioux of Lyon)

Choose a fine chicken, preferably from the Louhans district, plump and tender and weighing about 2 lb. Slip thin slices of truffle under the skin of the bird. Fold it in a fine cloth and tie it lightly round with string. Put it into a pot containing a broth made from shin of veal, with leeks and carrots. Boil it for 15 mts; then leave it for 20 more minutes in the bouillon and serve it with a pinch of coarse salt.


*"But the secret...the secret, they say, is to cook fifteen chickens at a time..at least" - Elizabeth David.

A chicken that weighs 2 lbs..:) How much does a Bresse chicken weigh anyways?

Edited by FaustianBargain, 17 March 2005 - 03:40 AM.

[chefzadi]

You may not find this easily if you live in Lyon, and they are not easy to find elsewhere either, but I've regularly found poulets de Challans to be superior to most poulets de Bresse. The quality of poulet de Bresse really depends on the producer: it may be sublime, or just chicken.

The producers of Bresse poultry all follow the same AOC standards. The rules are quite precise and the birds are feeding off of the same terroir. The flavor differences are the result of natural farming and not a more homegenized/industrial style.

(Why does American free range chicken always taste the same?)

Leave it to the French to spend all this time and care knowing that the splendor of what makes Bresse poultry so great is that ultimately mother nature decides. When she is fickle we settle for poultry that is just plain good, well really good. But she tends to be kinder to Bresse poultry more often than she is with other birds, because she knows the farmers are trying to help. And when she kisses a bird with gold, it is sublime as ptipois described.

[docsconz]

(Why does American free range chicken always taste the same?)

They don't all taste the same. The difference is whether or not they are truly "free range". True free range chickens are indeed different. The problem, I believe is that in the US the definition of "free range" is pretty broad and there is still a lot of homogeneity in the feed, especially since the term has developed some cache wich in turn leadds to extra cash. For the most part what is called "free range" in the US is still essentially a masss market product. The way to get distinctive chicken in the US is to know one's producer and how they raise their birds. hether they compete with Poulet Bresse is another question and one I hope to answer for myself later this summer.

[bleudauvergne]

The bird received it's kiss of gold last night. Even if I might not have done it just right..

At the market, the producer also brought his daughter. It's the Lyon producers market on the square at Perrache station. This is an interesting market because it takes place in the middle of the week, at the end of the day. And people are only allowed to sell their own product here. There have been vendors at this market that I see on the Quai St. Antoine, so in that way I know they are direct producers. You can usually tell who's a local producer and who isn't. The producers tend to be less showy and only have what's in season, of course. But the products are the freshest.



The birds are tagged with a bracelet, a special metal thing that identifies them as part of the federation, a hand written number, PLUS the stickers and tags.. The guy offered me all his extra feet without me even asking this time. Wasn't that nice of him?



Poulet de Bresse sous la croute de sel

This is all you need for this dish:



1 Poulet de Bresse
Salt about 600 grams
flour about a 800-900 grams
pepper (I chose three kernels of poivre long)
2 bay leaves
2 sprigs fresh rosemary (which I clipped from a plant I have)
2-3 poultry livers. I had the liver from the bird I bought, and also a pintade liver that the vendor had for sale.

Heat the oven to 150 C or about 300F (?).



What you do is mix the salt and flour and some water to make a thick homogenous dough. You don't want it too gooey or soft. I made the mistake of a too gooey dough and it sagged down and began to get holes, so had to peel it off the bird and add flour to it. It's got to be really nice and thick.

This was too gooey and I ended up adding flour to it.


Put the rosemary, bay leaves, peppercorns, and livers inside the bird's cavity.

You then push the dough all down flat and layer it on the bird and seal it up in areas that look like they might break and around the edges. I used a pastry brush to poisten certain parts and pinched it and prodded it a bit. I also put on two layers to make sure there weren't any holes.

This is the bird with the good dough on it. It's not very pretty...



Then you put it in the oven. The recipe I used said to do it for 1.5 hours. This was where a mishap occured. While I was kneading the dough on the table, my husband went poking around and thought I'd left the oven on by accident. He fiddled with the knob and then turned it back when he realized I'd had it on for a reason. However with my new fangled German oven, the oven automatically sets at certain temperature depending on the type of air circulation you choose. SO, instead of 150, it was automatically reset to 220.

At about an hour, things started smelling quite delicious and I could swear it was done by the lovely aromas coming out of the kitchen. I was suprised, and checked and realized just then that it was on the high temp. I have rotied birds at this temp so I wasn't too concerned, but the croute was not as golden and uniform as it could have been. In fact it was slightly burned. There has got to be some way for a little air to escape otherwise the thing will explode, right? On the right side you see there was just a little place where some liquids bubbled up to the top. But I think that's normal. Is that normal?



Oh well. We cracked the croute off the bird and saw it was just fine. Very steamy and juicy!



Thank goodness I stuck my nose in the oven and checked it.



We know the French usually eat with silverware but last night we ate with our fingers. The meat was infused with a hint of rosemary, was soft, juicy and quite frankly, delicious. The juices were out of this world.



I dressed the salad with a vinaigrette of some of the cooking juices and a hint of common red wine vinegar, plus the fois, with a little white pepper ground on top.



The recipe was inspired by Joel Robuchon's recipe but I added the poivre long, an extra bay leaf, and instead of completely wrapping the chicken as he instructs, I sealed it into the pan. This idea came from a conversation with a lady on the bus on the way to the market from work. She said that to seal it in made it easier to open afterwards. I can see that since it was hard as a rock and took a bit of effort to pry off.

Anyway. Delicious and easy and I encourage anyone to try this. I think the fricasee with the fois gras sauce was the best so far but this comes a close second, and due to it's ease of preparation, I would actually rate it higher than the fricasee in terms of taste payoff and good use of the bird.

[therese]

Looks great, Lucy.

Is the glass of wine crucial to the success of the dish? I'll assume so.

[FaustianBargain]

The bird received it's kiss of gold last night. 

Looks lovely, bleudauvergne.

re bubbling liquid: no, that shouldnt happen. I think. my guess is that you are losing the juices/moisture. Maybe the bird got a little steamed inside. When I did it, I made a tight envelope so that the bird is completely covered with the salt crust. I am guessing your chicken is touching the bowl and the salt crust was more of a tight sheath draped over the bird instead of a tight envelope. Regardless, your results show that these things dont matter and are purely theoritical.

p.s. what is 'poivre long'?

[Ptipois]

p.s. what is 'poivre long'?

Long pepper or pippal, tippali (?) in tamil.

[FaustianBargain]

p.s. what is 'poivre long'?

Long pepper or pippal, tippali (?) in tamil.

wow! I didnt know long pepper is kanda thippili. There is this killer thippili broth/rasam and also used in all sorts of medicinal food prep like digestion aids.

[bleudauvergne]

The bird received it's kiss of gold last night. 

Looks lovely, bleudauvergne.

re bubbling liquid: no, that shouldnt happen. I think. my guess is that you are losing the juices/moisture. Maybe the bird got a little steamed inside. When I did it, I made a tight envelope so that the bird is completely covered with the salt crust. I am guessing your chicken is touching the bowl and the salt crust was more of a tight sheath draped over the bird instead of a tight envelope. Regardless, your results show that these things dont matter and are purely theoritical.

p.s. what is 'poivre long'?

I initially wanted to completely envelope it. However even with the amount of salt and flour, I still did not have enough to wrap the complete bird, so I felt well enough following this lady's advice. Thank goodness I happened into the discussion with her.

The bird measured 1.8 kilos, about.

The poivre long came from an expensive traiteur. I could not help myself even though I knew I was probably getting ripped off because everything was ridiculously overpriced. I think it smells great and throw them whole into stocks and have been using it more and more. The greatest and mysterious thing about it is that since I've been using it I have lost 10 kilos. Just kidding.

[MobyP]

Bravo Lucy.

[bleudauvergne]

Looks great, Lucy.

Is the glass of wine crucial to the success of the dish?    I'll assume so.

It became necessary after the mishap with the dough - a nice cheap Cote du Rhone did the trick nicely.

[Ptipois]

wow! I didnt know long pepper is kanda thippili. There is this killer thippili broth/rasam and also used in all sorts of medicinal food prep like digestion aids.

I'm interested in the rasam. Maybe we can discuss it in the India subforum?

[emsny]

For what it's worth, long pepper was much used in medieval European cooking.

[FaustianBargain]

wow! I didnt know long pepper is kanda thippili. There is this killer thippili broth/rasam and also used in all sorts of medicinal food prep like digestion aids.

I'm interested in the rasam. Maybe we can discuss it in the India subforum?

I have started a thread here.

[charl]

The time to have a "Chapon de Bresse" at Bresse ?

I always dreamed of having a chapon de bresse or Poularde de Bresse in some local resrautants in Bresse area . I read that chapon or poularde are usually available ONLY "around Christmas" - can anybody tell me the ( more ) precise time frame ? From end of November or early December ?

The famous George Blanc's current autumn menu shows Poularde in several dishes , so I guess they have access to Poularde already in October . That solves the poularde . But how about the chapon ?

Some web surfing showed the chapons appear in some restaurant's Xmas dinner menu . But does one really have to wait till then ? It is probably not a good idea to visit France in Xmas time .

I appreciate any ideas .

[bleudauvergne]

Sometimes you can find them at the end of November, they do time a few for that time of year.

[sharonb]

Here's a cooking-related topic that interests me. A year and a half ago, I had a special dinner to cook. So I bought a poulet de Bresse and cooked it in a sauce with trompettes de la mort.

But what was curious, despite the dish being pretty good, was that it didn't do justice to the fact that the chicken was a poulet de Bresse (i.e. 2 or 3 times the cost of a poulet fermier Label Rouge). I felt as though a simpler preparation - roasted, simply - would have brought out what makes that kind of chicken more sumptuous than a regular free-range chicken.

But then again, when the product itself is good, I like it almost completely brut. When making magret de canard, I eat it with salt and pepper (though I do make a sauce au poivre vert with cognac and shallots and crème fraîche for my sauce-loving bf). When I eat a darne de saumon I pan-fry it in a slick of olive oil and throw some sel de Guérande on it. End of story.

Does anyone have any thoughts about plain vs. dressed dishes? (Aside from cuts that need to be braised, etc.)

[doctorandchef]

I have yet to cook with Bresse Chicken, although I did try the Bresse Chicken at La Mere Brazier and have to say that the quality of the chicken makes a huge difference in the taste of the dish. I'm sure it would not have tasted as good with a generic North American factory chicken.

Having said that, your question is about whether a Bresse chicken is "wasted" by cooking it in a sauce. I think it really depends on what kind of sauce it is. If it was a curry sauce, ya, it would be a big waste of the expensive chicken since the main taste of the dish comes from the curry spices.

But say you were doing a mild cream sauce where the predominant flavor is still the chicken, I think using a quality bird makes a huge difference. Same goes for a simple poached chicken.

The chinese have the same philosophy towards using their best birds e.g. Rongkong chicken, featured in one of the old episodes of Iron Chef Japanese. We usually reserve to the simplest preparations with very mild seasonings when using the most expensive birds e.g. poached in a mild stock "white cut" style, mildly tea-smoked "great-grandfather" style. WOuld never waste it in a chicken fricassee with black bean sauce etc.

[Ptipois]

I think the problem in this case was not the sauce but the trompettes-des-morts. A strong-tasting mushroom, sometimes on the verge of mouldy, which may easily ruin the balance of a dish.

There is nothing wrong with a sauce with Bresse chicken, to the contrary: because of its firmness, it really asks for a sauce. That is how it is prepared in Bresse, Lyonnais and Mâconnais.

The favorite ingredients are cream, garlic, cheese, butter, mild-tasting mushrooms, foie gras, truffles and white wine. A French-style, cream-based curry sauce is actually not a bad idea.

[sharonb]

You lost me there... How are trompettes de la mort more pungent than truffles?!

My sauce was shallot, white wine, trompettes, thyme & bay leaf, finished with cream. But... bof. (Too bad, it was to celebrate moving in with my boyfriend and opening a bottle of 1995 Pétrus.)

One of my favorite dishes recently has been chicken with riesling, foie gras, cream and some quatre épices. Mm.

[Ptipois]

You lost me there... How are trompettes de la mort more pungent than truffles?!

Trompettes and truffles have nothing in common, except perhaps their color.

[sharonb]

They're both fungus with strong (though not similar) tastes.

[pirate]

My experience with Poulet ou Poularde de Bresse has been dining in France including meals in the Bresse region. Sauce is universal, and is usually a cream sauce. Although the very best dish I had in the region was a Supreme de Poularde with a white wine sauce. Most recently I had a Poulet de Bresse aux morilles at Guy Savoy in Paris. The sauce was superior to the chicken, so somewhat overwhelmed the chicken. When I commented on this to a waiter's inquiry. the restaurant sent out a supplementary dish of the morels in sauce. The morels were the blond variety but I like the black better. It may well be that the poulet is not as flavorful as the poularde. While I've had excellent grilled and roasted chicken, an accomplished sauce chef can greatly enhance the flavor of chicken. Vive le saucier!

[Ptipois]

They're both fungus with strong (though not similar) tastes.

You just answered your own question.

Edited by Ptipois, 10 June 2007 - 09:47 AM.

[sharonb]

I don't think so. So tell me, please, if you think trompettes de la mort are not appropriate with chicken, why. Truffles don't taste anything like morels, either, and both are excellent matches with chicken.

And as a lover of trompettes de la mort (and hater of chanterelles/girolles, esp. from Hungary... but that's another story), whyever would you say they have a "rotten" taste?

Edited by sharonb, 10 June 2007 - 11:44 AM.

[Ptipois]

I don't think so. So tell me, please, if you think trompettes de la mort are not appropriate with chicken, why.

Certainly, but I already did in my first post of this thread.

I can also add that you did write that you cooked your chicken with a sauce, but the only ingredient of the sauce you mentioned was the trompettes. Hence I assumed that your other ingredients were more commonplace (cream, white wine, etc.), and that there could be nothing wrong with them. I mean, it is not only a matter of chicken. If you write that you want to bring out the true flavor of anything and then add "I cooked it with trompettes", I think it is only natural that you get the answer: "Well, remove the trompettes then."

There is another element that I forgot to mention: not all Bresse chickens are created equal, and the label does not guarantee that you will have a superior chicken every time. I have had wonderful Bresse chickens and average ones, some of them inferior to a supermarket Poulet Jaune des Landes or Poulet de Janzé (which show a more constant quality). It all depends on the breeder. So it may also happen that you do your best to bring out a distinctive flavor that just isn't there. To be fair, I also think that trompettes do not put all the chances on your side, but there may be that other aspect to be considered first.

Truffles don't taste anything like morels, either, and both are excellent matches with chicken.

What is important here is considering all the elements involved: a poulet de Bresse from which you want to get the true flavor, and the trompettes. Both morels and truffles are indeed excellent matches for a good chicken because they never compete with it (which is precisely why so many Bresse chicken recipes include them). Trompettes are a totally different ingredient, which can be nice if you gather them yourself and have them very fresh, and quite dreadful if you buy them on a market and they're already too old. Even when they're fresh they can be overpowering, so I'd use them on their own, or in an omelette, or sautéed with vegetables, or with a less delicate meat or poultry, etc., but if the idea is to support and enhance the flavor of a high-quality, superior chicken or fish, I'll just choose another ingredient.

And as a lover of trompettes de la mort (and hater of chanterelles/girolles, esp. from Hungary... but that's another story), whyever would you say they have a "rotten" taste?

I wrote "strong-tasting, sometimes on the verge of mouldy", and likely to "ruin the balance of a dish"; I did not write "rotten" (though they do rot quickly too). I was probably too laconical in my previous post and I'm sorry, but I really did not want to insult you by reminding you that you cannot compare trompettes and truffles, of course not because of their price, but because their use and effect in cooking are of an absolutely different nature.

[sharonb]

Not sure about the complete disparity between truffles and trompettes! And more information is always less insulting than less (if there is even a question of being insulting; hopefully I have enough sense not to take culinary questions of knowledge or ignorance as a personal attack; hopefully you are not looking to personally shame anyone).

This thread has made me reflect on the use of trompettes de la mort, in any case. You are right that my sauce was basic: shallot, white wine, thyme and laurel, finished with cream. And it sucked.

Maybe it was the chicken itself.

[Ptipois]

Not sure about the complete disparity between truffles and trompettes!
(...)
Maybe it was the chicken itself.

I realize that you're teasing me.

But seriously, if you still do not grasp the difference between trumpets and black truffles, maybe it is simply time that you begin cooking with truffles and see for yourself.

There is a book I co-wrote with Pierre-Jean Pébeyre (the best French expert on truffles), which will tell you a lot about that subject. The introductory text is not very long but all the basics on the aromatic specificity of truffles are there. Unfortunately I think the book is currently unavailable but it should be reissued shortly. In any case, I can still recall the basics here.

Clicky.

Edited by Ptipois, 11 June 2007 - 02:49 AM.