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Pickles

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#31 mongo_jones

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Posted 17 June 2004 - 08:05 PM

Bhelpuri would you be kind enough to PM me your favourite Fish Curry recipe?
I have bought some lovely red rice and a goan fish curry would go well with it.

what is this pm business? the rest of us want to know as well!

and perhaps we should set up a pickle exchange network in the u.s.

#32 gingerly

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Posted 18 June 2004 - 09:39 AM

eGullet gourmet 'exchange'!i don't know but when i hit the doldrums food wise(yes it happens -there are days when i really don't know what i want to eat!)nothing works better to fix that than bread and pickle-any pickle. :biggrin:

#33 jw46

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Posted 18 June 2004 - 05:06 PM

jw46,there's always gooseberry chutney(try with indian chutney spicing)and i suspect quinces would behave more like the indian gooseberry so there are possibilities!

always willing to experiment with ingredients I have at hand...

Sometimes sublime, sometimes off to the trash...If it doesn't eat me first willing to try anything....

#34 Vikram

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Posted 19 June 2004 - 03:24 AM

My pickle audit of what's currently available at home. The selection is influenced by the fact that I don't really like most mango and lime pickles. I think most commercial pickle manufacturers make their pickles too acid to begin with, and when you combine this with the natural acidity of green mangos and lime, the result is too mouth puckering for its own good.

Perhaps the problem is that I don't get homemade versions of these often. My family makes other kinds, of which more in a minute, but not these two, so I don't have nostalgic memories of them. The only mango pickle I ever really fell for was a dark stick mass on sweet-sour mango pulp that a friend's grandmother in Himachal made. She died last year and since no one else in her family is able to make it, I'm going to have to resign myself to never eating it again (unless Rushina can find something that matches in her trip to the hills...)

(Madhur Jaffrey has a nice passage about pickles and how certain varieties vanish with their makers in her Introduction to Indian Cooking book. She was talking about a lime pickle her grandmother, and only her gradmother could make. After the old lady died, the remaining batch was carefully doled out among her descendants. One interesting point here was how she says her grandmother always insisted that only one of the servants was entrusted with the job of turning the pickles in their crocks with his hand - apparently only he had the right hand for doing this. And apparently when someone else's hand was used, the pickles did go bad. A coincidence, or could some quality about someone's hand really affect the pickle?)

Back to my pickles. The other problem I have is that many of my favourite pickles are made from ingredients that are either too local or hard to get. For example, for ages I have been longing for a Coorgi bamboo shoot pickle that was available in Nilgiri's in Bangalore, but is no longer seen. It was wonderful stuff, that seemed to use more pepper than chillis, as would probably have been traditional in that region before chillies came. This also prevented the slightly starchy sweet flavour of bamboo shoot from being drowned out. From my point of view, almost the only benefit of Episure moving to Bangalore was that finally there was someone who could track it down, but it doesn't look like he's had much luck.

Similarly there a wonderful mussel pickle made in North Kerala (kalamakai pickle) which had this marvellous tang of the sea to balance out the sour and hot flavours. My great grandmother in Tellicherry would make them from big orange mussels and ship them to her family, who would treat it with reverance. To eke out the flavour my mother would cut carrots into sticks (only because of the orange colour, I think) and dunk them in the pickle, to eat when the mussels were over. Getting this pickle here in Bombay is almost impossible - Goan mussel pickle is available, but the overuse of vinegar, I feel, drowns out the mussel taste.

Anyway, finally coming to my audit:

- stuffed green chillies, from two places. One, slightly more pungent, from Motilal Masalawala, old and reliable Bombay store. The other, slightly fresher and should be refrigerated, from a small shop outside the Jain temple on Malabar Hill which serves excellent Jain pickles and savouries.

- Rushina is too modest to say this, but her mother makes an awesome sweet and hot pickle (well chutney is more like it) from a whole bunch of ingredients that Rushina says she doesn't know or is trying to keep secret. She gave me a bottle that is now almost empty...

- Curry leaf thokku, a south Indian sort of pickle. This is interesting, as almost the only dish where curry leaves are used in themselves, and its quite good. Also, I'm told, very healthy. I have a brand from Madras, Sri Ganeshram's.

- Onion pickle, from Priya Pickles, using those small Madras onions that either are, or double up as, shallots. Not bad, though too acid like most commercial pickles and I don't think I'll be buying it again.

- Carrot and dry fruit pickle, from Motilal's. This is the great Parsi pickle, the one that's served with crisp puffy fried sago papads at all their weddings. Its the first item of the lagan-nu-bhonu, the wedding feast, and I always OD on it then, even when I know that there are innumerable dishes to come. Its sweet and fruity and just faintly hot. But I have to note that having bought this months back, I still haven't opened it, which goes to show that some pickles are perhaps best enjoyed only in context.

- Ginger thokku, from MTR. This is EXCELLENT. Hot, but not too hot, and with just the right amount of ginger burn. I have four jars which is an indication of how much I like it.

- Tomato pickle, from MTR again. I bought this with big expectations, after the ginger thokku, but while its not bad, its not that exciting either.

- OK, big drum roll for the real pickle de resistance, and the only reason its still in the fridge is because I've just come back from Madras, otherwise between the bf and me, it doesn't last too long. Its the prawn pickle made by Vijayan, our resident genius cook in Madras. Its in the North Kerala style and is HOT, with no over use of vinegar to conceal the taste. Its made with the small strong tasting prawns so their flavour just makes it through the eat.

Eating this is agony (especially the next morning), but it is a delicious and irresistable agony, especially when eaten plain on bread with a few fresh tomato slices on top to balance the taste, and slightly cool things down. Today morning I went into the kitchen to make breakfast and found the jar was already out - at 9.00 am! - and the bf with a half-ashamed, half-defiant face.

Vijayan makes this in industrial quantities to send out to all in the family (for some reason, all sons-in-law particularly love this), and we all dread the day when he can make it no more. My sister has extracted the recipe from him and one of these days I will have to try it, but I need to get a proper grinding stone first since one of the secrets, apparently, is that the spices have to be ground coarser than you can do in an electrical grinder.

Vikram

#35 Episure

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Posted 19 June 2004 - 08:49 AM

Back to my pickles. The other problem I have is that many of my favourite pickles are made from ingredients that are either too local or hard to get. For example, for ages I have been longing for a Coorgi bamboo shoot pickle that was available in Nilgiri's in Bangalore, but is no longer seen. It was wonderful stuff, that seemed to use more pepper than chillis, as would probably have been traditional in that region before chillies came. This also prevented the slightly starchy sweet flavour of bamboo shoot from being drowned out. From my point of view, almost the only benefit of Episure moving to Bangalore was that finally there was someone who could track it down, but it doesn't look like he's had much luck.


Vikram

I'm surprised that you mention this because I am under the impression that it's reached you a fortnight ago ( + one for Rushina). I thought that you two are travelling so havent had the time to acknowledge it.

I will remind my Bombay friend to send it across to you, unless it has been delivered to your office in your absence.
I fry by the heat of my pans. ~ Suresh Hinduja
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#36 mongo_jones

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Posted 19 June 2004 - 10:13 AM

(Madhur Jaffrey has a nice passage about pickles and how certain varieties vanish with their makers in her Introduction to Indian Cooking book. She was talking about a lime pickle her grandmother, and only her gradmother could make. After the old lady died, the remaining batch was carefully doled out among her descendants. One interesting point here was how she says her grandmother always insisted that only one of the servants was entrusted with the job of turning the pickles in their crocks with his hand - apparently only he had the right hand for doing this. And apparently when someone else's hand was used, the pickles did go bad. A coincidence, or could some quality about someone's hand really affect the pickle?)

this reminds me--when my father was stationed in hashimara (north bengal--in the dooars tea growing region) we had some tea-planter friends. in particular there was a rajput family from rajasthan whose house i used to eat a lot of meals at--their son was in my class and was a good friend slash bully. (by the way, i know that the tea industry in general and in bengal in particular is in very dire straits; as i look back at how these planters lived--each meal was an elaborate event--i think i get a sense of the general economic practices that may have contributed to their demise.) one of the best pickles i have ever had (and as i remember it now, my mouth curls in memory) was a sweet lime pickle that was made in their home. it was almost white in colour--none of that yellowishness or redness that is a hallmark of so many indian pickles. i have searched high and low for this pickle in years since, but have concluded it is only made in homes. i don't know if it is a rajasthani thing or whether this was something that had hybridized between my friend's mother and her north bengali cooks.

very few people in my family make pickles, so we ourselves are not the cause of any pickles disappearing from the earth (unless, of course, you count the fact that we've eaten more than our fair share of them).

#37 Vikram

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Posted 21 June 2004 - 01:49 AM

I will remind my Bombay friend to send it across to you, unless it has been delivered to your office in your absence.


Oh god, maybe there are secret bamboo pickle addicts in this office who gobbled it in my absence. Or maybe it was Rushina's brother. Or maybe its still here under the mountains of papers on my table. Will investigate, and please ask your friend as well. But thanks for finding it,

Vikram

#38 Episure

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Posted 21 June 2004 - 02:20 AM

That reminds me of the time when years ago someone came to my house in Bombay with 5 massive jars of various pickles. I told him that it's the wrong house but he insisted that he had been asked by his employer to deliver to this apartment.

Not wanting to argue with this courier of heavenly smelling pickles, I took delivery and before he could realise his mistake and come back to claim them, I promptly took my 'cut' of each of those jars. :raz:

He did turn up again and reclaimed them but by then I had added some new varieties to my pickle shelf. :biggrin:

Edited by Episure, 21 June 2004 - 02:22 AM.

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#39 gingerly

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Posted 07 July 2004 - 04:30 PM

came across a chapter online from the very interesting book salt:a world history,by mark kurlansky.

#40 Vikram

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Posted 08 July 2004 - 12:50 AM

Rather late in life I've come to bafenu, the classic Parsi pickle made with a whole ripe Alphonso mango, and I am now kicking myself for missing out on this so long.

(Actually as soon as I tasted it I remembered eating it as a kid at the homes of Parsi friends. I had this vivid flashback to meals all formally laid out, lots of linen and cutlery and porcelain bowls, and the starchy voice of my friend's grandmother telling us we had to finish the bowl of rather inspid soup before we were allowed to go on to the lacey cutlets and dhan-dhar-nu-patia, along with which, I'm guessing, came the bafenu).

I found the bafenu at the Ratan Tata Institute, an old Bombay institution on Hughes Road where Parsi food is made by a woman's help organisation. Sometime back I think Bhelpuri or someone else from Bombay was lamenting how the quality had fallen - the chicken patties no longer as flaky and satisfyingly full of chicken as he remembered.

This is probably true - the place didn't look particularly packed the day I went (the fact that it has no parking and is on a really busy junction doesn't help) - and I didn't feel tempted to try the patties. But the pastries looked as luridly coloured and inviting as when I was a kid, and while I resisted them, I didn't resist a date stuffed pastry or a dal-pori (like an ultra thick cake like puran poli) and they were both good, if heavy. There were long rolls of green-black patrel waiting to be cut, foil containers of dhansak waiting to be picked up for lunch and the plastic packets of bafenu, double packed for safety.

I bought one and could hardly wait to go home and open it. And when I did, the anticipation was totally justified. Bafenu is made with a tart substance, mangoes (although ripe ones) and I think it includes lots of vinegar, the fabulous cane vinegar produced in Navsari by Kolah's, yet it doesn't have that palate shrivelling sourness that I think mars too many commercial pickles from India. Its sweet, but not jam like, hot, but not searing, almost a really intense mango curry rather than a pickle. I could certainly eat it alone and that's what dinner was, along with wonderful multi-grain bread from Yazdani.

An exiled Bombayite once asked me to make him a care package of things to remind him of the city. I didn't ever get round to doing it, but if I do, a packet of bafenu will go in.

Vikram

#41 Rushina

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Posted 08 July 2004 - 07:15 AM

I have just picked up a papaya chutney from Dehra Dun that I am looking forward to trying.

Have a Sindhi grated mango pickle coming my way soon. I tried that it was really yummy.

Where can I find the lagan pickle Vikram. I read about it recently and i want to try it. And no a parsi wedding is not an option.

Rushina

#42 Vikram

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Posted 08 July 2004 - 10:43 AM

Where can I find the lagan pickle Vikram. I read about it recently and i want to try it. And no a parsi wedding is not an option.


Motilal Masalawala. There's a big shop at Nana Chowk which has most of their stuff (don't forget to get a packet of Kolah's vinegar), but if you can make it to their old shop near CP Tank do so, there's an even better variety of pickles there. RTI might have it as well, but even if they don't, you can pick up the bafenu there,

Vikram

#43 Episure

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Posted 09 July 2004 - 06:01 AM

Have a Sindhi grated mango pickle coming my way soon. I tried that it was really yummy.

Is it 'Gathadi'- in a muslin bag?
I fry by the heat of my pans. ~ Suresh Hinduja
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#44 gingerly

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Posted 10 July 2004 - 11:54 AM

same site-explore!

#45 Rushina

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Posted 11 July 2004 - 04:20 AM

Apologies to make everyone run around, but this pickle needs to be where other pickle lovers may read about it!

I first had Hing ka achaar when my husband was still courting me. Used to sit and eat it out of the bottle with a spoon.

Heeng ka achaar is a really delicious Pahari achaar that tastes great from the day it is made. On the day it is mixed up to be put down the savoury spices and and fresh sour mangoes are a mouth puckering treat. When I make it a lot of the fresh stuff gets "tasted". The recipe is a simple one. Green Mangoes (usually the ones that fall off on windy days...) are peeled and shaved into thick flakes. (My mouth is waterring!) these flakes are then marinated and left to slowly mature in the sun over a few months in a spice mix of which a large part is Heeng. THe end result is meltingly soft bits of mango that can be eaten with just about anything. It is really delicious and I have never eaten it anywhere else. I do have an exact recipe, but I am saving it for my book. (Terribly sorry if that sounds mean but Suman if you are really interested pm me your snailmail address and I will endeavour to send you some if red tape allows...). There is also a pork pickle that I found a recipe for and one for teetar ka achaar.

My mom in law also makes a really delicious lime pickle which I have people beg me for. It is sour peppery and sweet. The other pickles she makes are Stuffed red chilli, Green chilli, Jackfruit, sweet almost caramelised mango (I think this is what you like Vikram), amla, two three different unripe mango pickles and some more I cant recall at the moment.

Episure, yes that was Gathadi, I am going to get a bottle of it soon along with the exact recipe. THanks for the Bamboo Shoot Pickle that I await with bated breath! For other pickle lovers this Gathadi or Bheendi pickle is very nice, I do not think it is available storebought however, one would likely have to knck on the door of a Sindhi friend.

I tried out the Papaya chutney, It is really quite interesting, salty sweet with a hot backnote... (Vikram am going to split that one with you.)

I bought the Gongura pickle today that I had been curious about for so long! I am going to try that with dinner tonight. I could not find the MTR one had to settle for Mothers recipe.

Rushina

#46 bague25

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Posted 11 July 2004 - 07:44 AM

For other pickle lovers this Gathadi or Bheendi pickle is very nice, I do not think it is available storebought however, one would likely have to knck on the door of a Sindhi friend.

Knock, Knock...

Sindhi friend Episure, are you listening?? :smile: :wub:

#47 Rushina

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Posted 11 July 2004 - 10:47 PM

The Gongura Pickle I am happy to say is a great addition to my Pantry. I would however call it a chutney since there are no chunks of anything in it...

I served it with arhar-malka dal (toor and masoor), baigan (aubergine) ki sabji, rotis and dehra dun ka basmati. The daal was tempered wit copious amounts of heeng and a garhwali herb that is locally referred to as jumbu or faran. I wanted to take a picture of the daal but my husband wouldnt let me saying "may you make many more such daals to take pictures of....

To come back to the subject - the gongura lent a smoky spicy back drop to the daal and in retrospect, I think I would be quite happy with just the gongura pickle, a daal and rice.

That papaya pickle I have been talking about however seems to have become an addiction. It does not have any obvious papaya flavour but it is spicy sweet and I am finding all sorts of excuses to go to the kitchen to dip into the bottle!

Rushina

#48 Episure

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Posted 11 July 2004 - 11:16 PM

For other pickle lovers this Gathadi or Bheendi pickle is very nice, I do not think it is available storebought however, one would likely have to knck on the door of a Sindhi friend.

Knock, Knock...

Sindhi friend Episure, are you listening?? :smile: :wub:

Re: Gathadi aka Bheendi pickle.

This one is too traditional and is one of the few Indian pickles that exists in it's own domain.

However Rushina and some Bombay lurkers may want to ask for it at 'Ochi Pasari'
near Khar Station. The shop stocks a lot of exotic thingz that will catch the fancy of ingredient hunters.

Pasari is the old Indian word for grocer.

My mom doesnt know how to make it anymore so I will contract one old pickle lady(like the cake ladies) to make some before the mangos disappear.


Why this pickle is called Bheendi, I will never know. :hmmm:
I fry by the heat of my pans. ~ Suresh Hinduja
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#49 rajsuman

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Posted 15 July 2004 - 11:04 PM

Apologies to make everyone run around, but this pickle needs to be where other pickle lovers may read about it!

I first had Hing ka achaar when my husband was still courting me. Used to sit and eat it out of the bottle with a spoon.

Heeng ka achaar is a really delicious Pahari achaar that tastes great from the day it is made. On the day it is mixed up to be put down the savoury spices and and fresh sour mangoes are a mouth puckering treat. When I make it a lot of the fresh stuff gets "tasted". The recipe is a simple one. Green Mangoes (usually the ones that fall off on windy days...) are peeled and shaved into thick flakes. (My mouth is waterring!) these flakes are then marinated and left to slowly mature in the sun over a few months in a spice mix of which a large part is Heeng.  THe end result is meltingly soft bits of mango that can be eaten with just about anything. It is really delicious and I have never eaten it anywhere else. I do have an exact recipe, but I am saving it for my book. (Terribly sorry if that sounds mean but Suman if you are really interested pm me your snailmail address and I will endeavour to send you some if red tape allows...).


Hi Rushina,

No you don't sound mean at all - I can totally understand. Thanks for your generous offer. I wasn't looking for a recipe anyway. Sun-dried mango pickle in Ireland? Ha! (sun? what sun? oh..that yellow disc in the sky? hmmm...seems vaguely familiar). I was just looking for a description. It sounds very similar to my grandma's 'puddi nonche' (powdered pickle), which contains sun-dried strips of raw mango in a mixture of ground mustard, hing and dried chillies. It's a dry pickle. It's been my favourite ever since I can remember and I've yet to change my mind about it.

Suman

Edited by rajsuman, 15 July 2004 - 11:05 PM.


#50 touaregsand

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Posted 28 April 2005 - 09:35 PM

I've never done an Indian pickle tasting. I've only had them sporadically over the years. I don't even know which ones I've had. I'm known to try things without asking too many questions. For the past few months I've been going to a vegetarian Indian cafeteria of sorts. They have three levels of lunch/dinner specials. I always get the 'royale' or #3 for $5.99. It includes veg of the day, lentils, raita, basmati rice, chapati or puri, veg samosa, pickles, chopped salad with onions, Mango Lassi and a dessert (I have no idea what it is. I can identify coconut milk, sugar and some nuts. There is also this light, doughy thing shaped like a flattened ball).

Back to the pickles. My experience with Indian pickles is that they are very, very salty. (I'm Korean by the way, so I know salty and pickles). I'm intrigued by the flavors but I'm looking for less salty pickles. What should I look for? Names, brands, varieties...

#51 Geeta

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Posted 29 April 2005 - 08:10 AM

Pickles are a important part of Indian life. Pickle making is once a year activity (different times for different types of pickle), so salt and oil are an important part of preservation. I have not see any home made pickle using any commercially available preservatives. The spices added to the pickle have digestive properties.

Some type of Pickles are made with lesser amount of oil and salt but have a short shelf life and so not available commercially. The only long shelf life pickle i know of that is made with less salt is a variety where the mango is first dried and then pickled (eliminating the moisture from the mango aids in preservation).

Lot depends on whether u eat the pickle as a pickle (sparingly) or as a side dish :biggrin:

But i think pickles go best with simple non-spicy food. If the meal is spicy and rich, you really don't need pickle.

A suggestion would be to pick the veggie from the pickle and leave out the masala. The veggie (mango,lemon or carrot whatever) has all the flavors meant for the pickle.This way you can cut down on salt. If you have a bottle of pickle at home, you may try spreading the leftout masala on toast, with or without butter and see if you like it.

#52 Milagai

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Posted 29 April 2005 - 09:37 AM

Back to the pickles. My experience with Indian pickles is that they are very, very salty. (I'm Korean by the way, so I know salty and pickles). I'm intrigued by the flavors but I'm looking for less salty pickles. What should I look for? Names, brands, varieties...

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there are alslo many sweet pickles (meetha achar) types.

one brand and variety i really like is patak's brinjal (eggplant) relish
(its a hot and sweet eggplant pickle that is divine!

other brands have tried to make one but just do not compare.

milagai

#53 da_coolestofall

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Posted 29 April 2005 - 11:10 AM

Ones I am currently devouring:
1. Creen Chillies
2. Pachranga Mixed
3. Mom's Lime pickle: the way my mom makes it, she doesnt add any oil. And the resulting achar is this dark brown hunk that is a sure shot remedy for an upset stomach.

Craving for:
1. Mango hing achar
2. Teet ka achar
3. Kamal-kakdi(lotus root) achar
4. Kathal (jackfruit) achar

I remeber that when we were in India, mom tried an Eggplant Achar (doenst last long---need to finish in a few days) that Sanjeev Kapoor had on his show. Somehow we lost the recipe. Anyone have any idea what I am talkin about?

Edited by da_coolestofall, 29 April 2005 - 11:13 AM.


#54 touaregsand

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Posted 29 April 2005 - 12:36 PM

Thank you geeta and Milagai for the replies.

I'll be sure to purchase the eggplant pickle, sounds delicious.

I have another question about the pickle making process. I'm refering to the salty ones.
Very broadly speaking Korean pickles are made by salting the vegetables or soaking in brine. The salt or salt water is usually rinsed off before seasoning or eating.

In the case of the salty Indian pickles I mentioned I'm wondering how they are made. Is there an initial salting, then rinsing? Or are the salt and seasonings added in a single step?

I know it would help if I actually knew the names of the pickles I've tried. :smile: But I think my question can apply to general pickle making in India. Or is there no general style of pickle making in India? Oy vey, I feel like as if I'm digging myself into a hole. :laugh:

#55 sabiha

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Posted 05 May 2005 - 12:30 PM

My family is from Gujarat so we're lucky to have pickles sent to us when our jars are getting empty :raz: I find shop bought ones here in england rarely seem to match up to the ones we get sent. The green mango pickles mixed with methi seeds and chilli are my favourite along with lemon pickles which seem to complement any dish you eat them with.

There is also another type we get with a tumeric type root, but it is white and crunchy and has quite a different flavour, reminds me more of radishes, that also tastes great in pickles but I don't know what its called in english, in gujarati it is called 'Amba Aradh'.

#56 Geetha

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Posted 05 May 2005 - 03:23 PM

:blink: Sabiha I think you must be talking of mango ginger, I've had this in my stay in the north.. I know it is sought after vegetable root in one of the seasons, as is the big red chillies

I too love lemon pickle and the methi seeds are added to mostly north indian preparations of pickle :smile: I've always wanted to know all about pickles something that ticlkes your imagination as to how it tastes sooo good..

Good luck in finding mango ginger in your local market or on web ??--

Love
GEetha

#57 Episure

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Posted 05 May 2005 - 09:23 PM

There is also another type we get with a tumeric type root, but it is white and crunchy and has quite a different flavour, reminds me more of radishes, that also tastes great in pickles but I don't know what its called in english, in gujarati it is called 'Amba Aradh'.

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#58 touaregsand

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Posted 05 May 2005 - 09:33 PM

Is fresh turmeric available in Los Angeles?

If so where?

#59 Milagai

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Posted 06 May 2005 - 06:12 AM

:blink: Sabiha I think you must be talking of mango ginger, I've had this in my stay in the north.. I know it is sought after vegetable root in one of the seasons, as is the big red chillies

I too love lemon pickle and the methi seeds are added to mostly north indian preparations of pickle :smile:  I've always wanted to know all about pickles something that ticlkes your imagination as to how it tastes sooo good..

Good luck in finding mango ginger in your local market or on web ??--

Love
GEetha

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actually there are TWO different things.

one is mango ginger (maanga inji in tamil) as the name
implies its a variety of fresh ginger with a great mango taste.

the other is amba haldi (mango turmeric) which is a variety
of fresh turmeric root (or rhizome, whatever) with a great
mango taste :biggrin:

different animals, though similar uses in pickles.

milagai

#60 sabiha

sabiha
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  • Location:England

Posted 06 May 2005 - 07:35 AM

The root I'm talking about about must be zedoary i'm sure it isn't mango haldi as it doesnt have any mango taste. Here we get fresh tumeric and what appears to be zedoary in some local Indian shops, maybe I should get some and show you all what it looks like :biggrin:





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