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Sous Vide Duck Confit

Charcuterie Modernist

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58 replies to this topic

#31 scamhi

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 11:12 AM

long time( 24 hour) salting removes excess liquid from the duck legs and firms the meat



#32 lesliec

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 06:39 PM

Remember the original purpose of the confit technique was to preserve the meat for eating later.  The salt probably helps with that.  On the other hand, if you're making it for immediate consumption (or only short-term storage) because it's yummy, the salt won't be as important.  You could quite happily add it to suit your taste as you're plating it to serve.


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#33 weinoo

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 07:36 PM

Yeah, basically you're not really making confit.  You're making a duck leg braised in its own fat.

 

So it's not a lazy confit at all.


Edited by weinoo, 01 October 2013 - 07:38 PM.

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#34 abat

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 06:25 AM

Yeah, basically you're not really making confit.  You're making a duck leg braised in its own fat.

 

So it's not a lazy confit at all.

 

Precisely. What puzzles me is that I cannot tell a difference in taste between the two versions. Hence, the question: are we attached beyond reason to the tradition, or is my ability to tell a difference in taste compromised? I guess someone who has tried cooking the legs sous-vide both ways can chime in. Thanks!



#35 weinoo

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 06:45 AM

First, you'd have to taste confit made and cured in the traditional manner.  Then taste the sous-vide version where the legs are cured in salt for 24 hours before being bagged and cooked.  Then taste your version.  I imagine all 3 will taste differently.


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#36 Dave Hatfield

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 10:02 AM

Guess I'm a traditionalist, but I prefer the old way. Of course having said that I have admit to not having made my own for years.

 

I either buy one cuisse (thigh with leg still attached) at a time from the deli counter of my local supermarket. Or I buy cans from Aldi at 5.60 Euros per can of 4 cuisses. The canned stuff is great & I get to save the extra duck fat.

 

Can't say that I've had sous vide comfit, but I can sat that the canned stuff is better than my efforts.

 

Now, goose comfit is a whole different ball game.



#37 EnriqueB

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 02:48 AM

 

Yeah, basically you're not really making confit.  You're making a duck leg braised in its own fat.

 

So it's not a lazy confit at all.

 

Precisely. What puzzles me is that I cannot tell a difference in taste between the two versions. Hence, the question: are we attached beyond reason to the tradition, or is my ability to tell a difference in taste compromised? I guess someone who has tried cooking the legs sous-vide both ways can chime in. Thanks!

 

 

FWIW, Nathan Myhrvhold said that they (the Modernist Cuisine team) made blind tests and they could not detect any difference, in a message in this very forum.



#38 rotuts

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 05:40 AM

just a bit of an aside:  Ive never understood how the fat was supposed to 'preserve' the duck:  wouldnt the fat, at least that in contact with the air ( surface ) get rancid?



#39 Shalmanese

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 11:42 AM

 

 

Yeah, basically you're not really making confit.  You're making a duck leg braised in its own fat.

 

So it's not a lazy confit at all.

 

Precisely. What puzzles me is that I cannot tell a difference in taste between the two versions. Hence, the question: are we attached beyond reason to the tradition, or is my ability to tell a difference in taste compromised? I guess someone who has tried cooking the legs sous-vide both ways can chime in. Thanks!

 

 

FWIW, Nathan Myhrvhold said that they (the Modernist Cuisine team) made blind tests and they could not detect any difference, in a message in this very forum.

 

 

The Myhvhold experiment was poached in duck fat vs steamed and then coated with duck fat. That's a different experiment from salted immediately vs cured overnight and rinsed.


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#40 Shalmanese

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 11:44 AM

just a bit of an aside:  Ive never understood how the fat was supposed to 'preserve' the duck:  wouldnt the fat, at least that in contact with the air ( surface ) get rancid?

 

A little bit of rancidity contributes to the "aged" confit flavor. The main concern is preventing oxygen from getting to the meat to inhibit spoilage bacteria.


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#41 rotuts

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 12:02 PM

Soooooooo  you scrape off  a bit of the oxygen sensitive Top before you delve in to the Duck?

 

then there are those Nasty Anaerobes.   :blink:

 

but it seems to work.   Im guessing in the Olden Days  they gobbled this stuff up, they did not have central heating, and that helped a lot.

 

\just  a guess   



#42 nickrey

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 07:23 PM

Soooooooo  you scrape off  a bit of the oxygen sensitive Top before you delve in to the Duck?

 

then there are those Nasty Anaerobes.   :blink:

 

but it seems to work.   Im guessing in the Olden Days  they gobbled this stuff up, they did not have central heating, and that helped a lot.

 

\just  a guess   

The traditional recipe used a lot of salt, which is going to inhibit bacterial growth significantly.


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#43 EnriqueB

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 03:55 AM

 

 

The Myhvhold experiment was poached in duck fat vs steamed and then coated with duck fat. That's a different experiment from salted immediately vs cured overnight and rinsed.

 

 

¡Oh!, thanks for clarifying.



#44 Unpopular Poet

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 11:43 AM

I found a subtle difference between the traditional and the sous vide versions -- I think the difference for me was that the traditional (I made a significant amount for a christmas party one year) developed more and more over the months I had it. The confit I started with in December, tasted nothing like the confit I finished in about July.  You just can't get that with the sous vide version.  



#45 nickrey

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 12:41 PM

I found a subtle difference between the traditional and the sous vide versions -- I think the difference for me was that the traditional (I made a significant amount for a christmas party one year) developed more and more over the months I had it. The confit I started with in December, tasted nothing like the confit I finished in about July.  You just can't get that with the sous vide version.  

This comment raises the elephant in the room. If the sous vide confit uses similar salting, encases the product in fat, and is well past the temperature and time for pasteurisation why can't it be kept for similar times to conventional confit?


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#46 sigma

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 02:45 PM

The best solution is to make sous vide confit using fat you have been recycling for traditional confit over the years.  That way you get the ease of the use and the light rancidity.



#47 Franci

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 06:54 AM

Question.
This time I made luck leg confit, I salted the legs for 24hours and then cooked at 75 C for 10 hours, followed by rapid chill and freezer.
The liquid in the pouch looked still a bit reddish. Is cooking time for that temperature enough?

Thanks

#48 pbear

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 09:29 PM

Did you include curing salts?  They're not mentioned in the two recipes linked in the OP, but are traditional.  If so, that would explain the color.  If not, I'm baffled, as I would have expected ten hours as 75C/167F to be enough to color-degrade the myyoglobin (the protein which makes meat pink), though I will say I can't recall having ever having cooked anything at precisely that temp.  In any event, taking the temp up to 82C/180F should solve the problem.  That's a temp I've used lots of times when aiming for braised texture by SV.  No pink, in my experience.



#49 sigma

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 07:02 AM

Curing salts are not traditional in confit.


Edited by sigma, 16 November 2013 - 12:32 PM.


#50 Franci

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 07:03 AM

Hi pbear. No, I didn't include any curing salt. I did previously cook duck legs at 82 C for 8 hours, but this time wanted to experiment with another temperature and follow this advice. For now the legs are in the freezer. Maybe browining on the outside and warming in the oven  a little longer is going to be enough if the legs already cooked 10 hours at 75 C.

Thanks



#51 pbear

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 10:08 AM

Gotcha.  Good luck.



#52 mmille24

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 05:44 PM

Hi pbear. No, I didn't include any curing salt. I did previously cook duck legs at 82 C for 8 hours, but this time wanted to experiment with another temperature and follow this advice. For now the legs are in the freezer. Maybe browining on the outside and warming in the oven  a little longer is going to be enough if the legs already cooked 10 hours at 75 C.

Thanks

What did you like better? 82C at 8 or 75C at 10? I've tried 75C before, I remember the meat was a bit drier than I would have liked. 



#53 Franci

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 09:29 PM

Hi mmille24! I liked better the 82C at 8, but I didn't cure the legs long enough, so it was more braised than confit but definitely more tender.



#54 rotuts

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 12:26 PM

Its still not clear to me the difference between 'confit'  ie cured  vs braised.

 

and Im thinking braised in a SV bag where the flavor stays in the bag, even if there is some  'jus' vs braised in the 

 

conventional sense in a Pot where that 'jus' becomes your Sauce ..

 

I have had confit in the past but so long ago I can't remember the details re taste.

 

is 'Confit' , at least the curing part, similar to 'corning' ie corned beef of various cuts, but

 

of fowl?   so if you took a duck bit and cured it and the SV'd it at the proper temp and then did the same 

 

with a similar duck bit but not cured, but SV'd

 

what would be the taste difference between them ?

 

( seasonal ) cheers  your way !


Edited by rotuts, 23 December 2013 - 12:29 PM.


#55 Anna N

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 01:07 PM

I think the major difference between braised duck and duck confit is that braising involves cooking in liquid while confit is cooked in fat. And cured duck is liked cured pork (bacon) in a way. The curing firms up the flesh as well as flavouring it. Taste and texture-wise I find them to be quite different. I don,t know if that helps at all..
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#56 rotuts

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 02:03 PM

thanks   that helps a lot.

 

but ....  do you think the cured duck is ""  corned ""  ?

 

as in corned beef?    

 

split ing a few hair, in a way ...

 

duck for me it a difficult item to fined.

 

I have in the past many times done Duck in Two Ways  based on 

 

http://www.amazon.co...madalene kamman

 

but she did a PBS show where you did the breast ( w fat !!) first

 

and the second course were the legs  roasted to chris-py in the oven

 

beyond delicous.


Edited by rotuts, 23 December 2013 - 02:09 PM.


#57 Shalmanese

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 09:14 PM

Mhyrvold has demonstrated that steamed and brushed with duck fat confit was indistinguishable from traditionally cooked, unaged confit. I would imagine a braised confit would be slight less flavorful since some of the flavor would be absorbed into the braising liquid but apart from that, I can't imagine many huge differences.

 

The traditional cooking method is chosen NOT for it's cooking ability but for it's keeping ability. Confit was traditionally used to preserve meat over long winters at room temperature. Despite this now no longer being a major requirement for confit, the traditional techniques haven't received much re-examination.


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#58 glennbech

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Posted 25 December 2013 - 09:54 AM

I have made sous vide duck confit many times. I salt and herb overnight, rinse off in the morning, seal each leg individually with a tablespoon of frozen duck fat, and cook 8-10 hours at 82C, chill in an ice bath, and in to the back of the refrigerator until I need it. Works like a charm.

 

 

+ 1 from me on this one. If you render fat from the duck carcas yourself, there should be enough for one or two pouches. When I have made duck confit the traditional way, I have always have to purchase extra  fat.



#59 Franci

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Posted 25 December 2013 - 01:45 PM

Its still not clear to me the difference between 'confit'  ie cured  vs braised.

 

and Im thinking braised in a SV bag where the flavor stays in the bag, even if there is some  'jus' vs braised in the 

 

conventional sense in a Pot where that 'jus' becomes your Sauce ..

 

I have had confit in the past but so long ago I can't remember the details re taste.

 

is 'Confit' , at least the curing part, similar to 'corning' ie corned beef of various cuts, but

 

of fowl?   so if you took a duck bit and cured it and the SV'd it at the proper temp and then did the same 

 

with a similar duck bit but not cured, but SV'd

 

what would be the taste difference between them ?

 

( seasonal ) cheers  your way !

 

In my mind confit duck must have that cured feel, salty, shreddable meat like the confit you buy in France sous vide (or in cans). Some are better than others for sure but stil all of them have these commonalities.  Here in the States, I haven't bought yet already prepared duck confit legs, I need to get from my farmer's market or Dartagnan, just to compare. My memory is still very fresh.

I'll do again the 82C 12 hours but with longer curing and compare.







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