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Home Made Ice Cream 2013 -

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#241 JoNorvelleWalker

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 04:26 PM

I'm sorry, Perrin, I don't use invert sugar but I hope someone will be able to answer your question.



#242 Perrin

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 01:37 PM

Thanks Jo.  My second try crystallized as well.  Does anyone know what I might be doing wrong?  Heat too high?  Cooking too long or not long enough?  Not cleaning the sugar off the sides well enough?  I may give up and buy some at NY Cake & Baking Supply.  It seems pretty inexpensive.



#243 Perrin

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 05:57 AM

Success!  I reheated the last batch with a bit more water and kept the temperature pretty low, but high enough to boil it.  I took it off when it reached 236 F.  This time, it has not crystallized!  I used some in a batch of Laiskonis' green tea ice cream and am making Paulraphael's vanilla with it today.



#244 paulraphael

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 06:10 PM

I usually get some crystals. I suspect it means some of the sugar hasn't inverted. It's never been a problem.



#245 Perrin

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 04:39 PM

How do people know when to stop churning the ice cream?  Do you measure the temperature or look for visual cues?  Most books say something like "when the ice cream is pulling away from the walls" but that happens after about 10 minutes in my Simac, and that can't be enough time.



#246 JoNorvelleWalker

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 11:20 PM

I had a Simac in the 1980's.  Wonderful machine except when it came to cleaning.  I have learned that it is best to err on the side of underchurning than to risk overchurning.  With my Cuisinart I get best results at 15 minutes.  I used to measure draw temperature, now I just go by time -- no more than 15 minutes.



#247 Ruben Porto

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 02:39 AM

Hi Perrin,

 

A good indicator of when your ice cream is done is how wet or 'shiny' it looks. When it is done, your ice cream should have a dry look and should not have a wet shine. If you notice that your ice cream looks wet and shiny, this is a good indicator that not all of the water has frozen so leave it in for a bit longer.

 

When you remove the dasher, the ice cream should also stick firmly to it. If the ice cream drops off too easily from the dasher, leave it churning until it has a sticky consistency (so many adjectives).

 

The quantity of the mix that you put in your machine will have an effect on the churning time. The more mix you put in the machine, the longer it will take to churn. My Cuisinart ICE 30 takes between 22-25 minutes to churn a 1 litre batch and about 18 minutes to churn an 800g batch. The temperature of your freezer will also have an effect on churning time if you use a machine that requires the bowl to be frozen overnight; the colder you can get your freezer, the colder your freezer bowl will be and the faster it will churn your mix.

 

Hope that helps.



#248 paulraphael

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 11:09 AM

How do people know when to stop churning the ice cream?  Do you measure the temperature or look for visual cues?  Most books say something like "when the ice cream is pulling away from the walls" but that happens after about 10 minutes in my Simac, and that can't be enough time.

 

The simple way is to go by appearance. The best way is to go by drawing temperature, and to tune your recipes so that they freeze to a firm, dryish texture at that temperature. The research I've seen suggests the ideal drawing temperature is about -5°C, or 23.5°F. Just stick a thermometer into the ice cream when it starts to look right, and turn off the machine when you hit the right temp. 

 

If you do it this way, you'll minimize ice crystal size and all your recipes will be equally scopable at the ideal serving temperature of -12 to -14C.



#249 Ruben Porto

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 07:32 AM

It involves a bit of work Luke but the texture of the finished ice cream is definitely worth the effort. I'd recommend sticking to the exact measurements in the recipe though.



#250 Ruben Porto

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 07:35 AM

Hi everyone,

 

This is a bit strange but has anyone ever tried an ice cream made with insects? I know the guys at Noma in Copenhagen use ants in some of their salads but i don't know whether they've ever experimented with them in desserts. I'm considering making caramalised ant ice cream!

 

What are your views on using insects in ice cream making???



#251 paulraphael

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 07:44 AM

What are your views on using insects in ice cream making???

 

Personally I'll probably draw the line at honey, but if you're less squeamish about creepy crawlies, what's to stop you? 

You might have to be careful to keep the extra-crispy ants from breaking apart.



#252 JoNorvelleWalker

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 02:14 AM

I'm working

 

Ruben,

Thanks for the explanation. My ice cream machine is broken, as soon as it is repaired i will try your method. I may put my cream in the 70C oven to let it evaporate, all that stirring just won't work for me, then i'll put the mix sous vide. Do you have an idea how much should i let the cream reduce?

 

I've been looking for an easier way to make ice cream.  My body can't do the stirring anymore, not to mention the manual temperature control.

 

I had the idea to try condensed milk, since other than pasteurization it is not subject to high heat.  For the first attempt, this was my mix:

 

500 ml heavy cream

200 gm condensed milk (half a can)

20 gm trehalose

6 large egg yolks 

1/8 teaspoon salt

1 Tablespoon vanilla paste (approximate)

 

 

Note that 200 gm condensed milk includes 110 gm sucrose.  I blended everything up in the Cuisinart and vacuum bagged with some difficulty.  I cooked at 71.4 deg C for four hours.  (That was the easy part.)  And chilled in an ice bath 16 hours, then spun for 20 minutes.  I usually spin for 15 minutes, but this wasn't getting hard enough.  I then hardened for about ten hours.

 

Well, it never did get as hard as I would like.  Clearly the solids are too high.  And the texture is a bit sandy.  I believe this is caused by excess lactic acid in the mix.  It's a little sweeter than I would like, but pretty close.  No iciness at all, and no off flavors.  Not my best but I have had much worse.

 

If I try this again, and I probably will since I have a lot of condensed milk, I think I'll up the amount of cream.



#253 JoNorvelleWalker

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 09:13 AM

In the above I meant "excess lactose" not "excess lactic acid".



#254 paulraphael

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 09:36 AM

Jo, can you fill us in a bit about trehalose? It's your most unconventional ingredient, and seems like a wild card in terms of its freezing point suppression and other structural effects. 

Are you using the condensed milk for its particular flavor?

 

The general formula for making ice cream harder is either less sugar overall, or a higher percentage of sucrose vs. monosacharides. Professor wikipedia says tremolose is a disaccharide (2 glucoses) but that may not tell the whole story. Also I don’t know just how condensed condensed milk is, so the total milk solids are another wild card. But I’m guessing you’re right that the the graininess comes from too many milk solids.



#255 paulraphael

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 11:00 AM

Ok, I just figured out the deal on trehalose. It's even less sweet than sucrose. This means that to achieve a given level of sweetness you need to use a ton of it—double the quantity of sucrose. Makes sense then that it would make ice cream soft. 

I see it being marketed as healthy, but I have trouble understanding how something that encourages you to double your sugar intake could be healthy. Popular health lit loves sugar fads ... alternately idolizing and demonizing different forms of sugar. But the differences once they're in your body are extremely small. There's very little metabolism involved before it's all just glucose. The only real health problems from sugar concern eating too much of it, so I'd be wary of this stuff.



#256 JoNorvelleWalker

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 09:11 PM

I never said trehalose was healthy.  Some people believe trehalose is a healthy alternative to other sugars used in ice cream because trehalose does not cause a spike in blood glucose the way sucrose or fructose does.  This is not my concern.  Your mileage may vary.

 

My wish would be that this thread not devolve into a discussion of the healthfulness of ice cream or its ingredients.  A previous time this topic turned to health effects of sugars in ice cream the tone of discourse got somewhat testy, in my opinion.  I would like to avoid repeating that if possible.

 

What I care about for myself is taste and texture.  From what I have read most humans can metabolize trehalose just fine.  Some people cannot.  If this is the case, don't eat insects, honey, mushrooms, and please do not put trehalose in your ice cream.  Disclaimer, I am a biochemist by training but I am not a physician.

 

My reference recipe is:

 

heavy cream 750 ml

whole milk 250 ml

medium/large egg yolks 6

sugar (sucrose) 90 g

trehalose 20 g

kosher salt pinch

vanilla paste 1 tablespoon

 

 

Ruben's method calls for reducing the volume by 32 pecent -- let's say a third.  My thought in using condensed milk is that someone has already wrung out much of the water by vacuum evaporation so I don't have to.  I just can't do it anymore.  Though Ruben's method still produces the best ice cream I (or my grandkids) have ever had.  My kitchen does not yet have a rotovap.

 

Getting back to my most recent experiment:  I now believe the problem was not sandiness, eg. lactose crystals.  The texture is dry, but try as I might I can't detect crystals on my tongue.  I still think the solution is to increase the amount of cream.

 

 

Edit:  I forgot to mention that after a day in the freezer the ice cream hardened up just fine.  Though the texture is still "dry".  I am unsure exactly what this means.


Edited by JoNorvelleWalker, 15 April 2014 - 09:17 PM.


#257 paulraphael

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 10:35 AM

Jo, I’m just curious about the reasons for trehalose in the recipe. It’s a big wild card; I don’t see anything in the standard ice cream literature about it. Since almost everything effects the texture of ice cream, especially sugars, it’s really hard to troubleshoot a recipe when there’s such an unknown quantity. So naturally, my first question is if the trehalose is necessary. It would be easy to get a creamy texture, and whatever sweetness level you want with a blend of more conventional sugars. 

 

I’m assuming you have some pretty strong reason for specifying the trehalose, and I’m wondering what it might be.

 

Re: increasing the cream … the proportion of cream is already very high. This is at the upper ends of richness among recipes I’ve seen.



#258 JoNorvelleWalker

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 02:19 PM

I reported some of my experiments with trehalose in post #211:

 

http://forums.egulle...2013/?p=1925826

 

Of the sugars available to me trehalose suggested itself because of its capacity for water binding and for stabilizing proteins.  And most importantly because of its relative lack of sweetness.  Trehalose allows me to achieve the (lack of) sweetness and hardness that I want in my ice cream -- at least with my standard recipe, the condensed milk recipe is a work in progress.

 

So far none of my trehalose containing batches have turned icy even after weeks in the freezer.  If eGullet were ahead of the standard ice cream literature, that is not necessarily a bad thing.

 

The only reason I started playing with condensed milk is the difficulty in preparing my standard mix.  I have a feeling that using condensed milk is not that good of a solution.  Now that I have an Anova for temperature control I am hoping to devise an automated setup that will allow me to evaporate water from my standard mix.  I am not there yet.  If cost were no object to the perfect ice cream I would get a rotovap.  (And a laboratory in which to set it up.)  Though I believe all I really need for the purpose is the flask itself and the part of the rotovap that rotates the flask.  Atmospheric pressure should work, so no need of a vacuum.  I don't need to capture the distilate, so no need of a condenser.

 

If anyone is aware of a source for a flask rotating thingy, please let me know.  I suspect there may be other culinary uses for such a device beyond ice cream.



#259 Ruben Porto

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 12:37 AM

Jo, have you considered using a magnetic stirring hot plate for ice cream making? It stirs the mix and keeps it at a constant temperature, meaning that you don't have to stand around stirring for an hour. I don't think a rotovap is a necessity in the ice cream kitchen. Although not the cheapest piece of equipment, a magnetic stirring hot plate might is a must in my opinion.

 

http://ika.com/owa/i...188&iSubgroup=1

 

I have also seen some cheap IKA hot plates on e-bay.



#260 JoNorvelleWalker

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 01:22 AM

Haha, yes, I suggested a stirring hot plate back in post #17 and have been thinking about one ever since!

 

http://forums.egulle...2013/?p=1904689



#261 paulraphael

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 07:44 AM

Ahhh, ok, thanks. I missed your earlier post on the trehalose. That's an interesting application for it.

 

Re: rotovap ... I've been coveting one for years. Ruben is right that it's not necessary. But you could say the same thing about ice cream ...


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#262 Kerry Beal

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 09:13 AM

I reported some of my experiments with trehalose in post #211:

 

http://forums.egulle...2013/?p=1925826

 

Of the sugars available to me trehalose suggested itself because of its capacity for water binding and for stabilizing proteins.  And most importantly because of its relative lack of sweetness.  Trehalose allows me to achieve the (lack of) sweetness and hardness that I want in my ice cream -- at least with my standard recipe, the condensed milk recipe is a work in progress.

 

So far none of my trehalose containing batches have turned icy even after weeks in the freezer.  If eGullet were ahead of the standard ice cream literature, that is not necessarily a bad thing.

 

The only reason I started playing with condensed milk is the difficulty in preparing my standard mix.  I have a feeling that using condensed milk is not that good of a solution.  Now that I have an Anova for temperature control I am hoping to devise an automated setup that will allow me to evaporate water from my standard mix.  I am not there yet.  If cost were no object to the perfect ice cream I would get a rotovap.  (And a laboratory in which to set it up.)  Though I believe all I really need for the purpose is the flask itself and the part of the rotovap that rotates the flask.  Atmospheric pressure should work, so no need of a vacuum.  I don't need to capture the distilate, so no need of a condenser.

 

If anyone is aware of a source for a flask rotating thingy, please let me know.  I suspect there may be other culinary uses for such a device beyond ice cream.

I have one of those flask rotating thingies.  Haven't made a lot of use of it.  Perhaps we should talk!



#263 JoNorvelleWalker

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 09:47 AM

What is the source for it, Kerry?  Do you have a link?



#264 Kerry Beal

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 01:18 PM

Bought it used from Ebay I believe.



#265 JoNorvelleWalker

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 08:47 PM

Ruben, have you been using a stirring hot plate for your ice cream mix?  If so what sort of vessel do you use and how well does it work for you?.



#266 timpoblete

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Posted 19 April 2014 - 12:28 PM

I've been using a stirring hot plate for about 2 months now. Works well, keeps hands free, but it takes a little bit of time (about 15 mins to get break 70C) to bring mixes up to temperature. Not a big deal if you're heating the mixture for an hour.

I use a stainless steel mixing bowl with a wide surface area at the base, thinner the base the better. Metal should work just a as well as glass since it's just heat transfer

#267 JoNorvelleWalker

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Posted 19 April 2014 - 03:54 PM

Interesting, thanks.  I would not have thought the stirring would work properly through stainless steel.  I recall from reading the manual that Corning specifies that only glass containers be used with their stirring hot plates.  What make of stirring hot plate do you have?

 

I'm enjoying my first ice cream soda of the season as I write this!



#268 Ruben Porto

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 04:52 AM

I thought it was you who first told me about the stirring hot plates. Is there no end to your brilliance Jo!

 

I have indeed been using a magnetic stirring hot plate to make my mixes and it has proven indispensable. I use the IKA C MAG 7 and will be getting another one shortly. I'd recommend looking on e-bay for a cheaper used model.

 

http://icecreamscien...in-the-kitchen/

 

I use a stainless steel pan, which is fine as long as it isn't magnetic. I have used a glass container but prefer using a larger stainless steel pan. I have had to tweek my technique slightly as the stirring hot plate doesn't evaporate as much water as manual stirring does, probably because it agitates the mix less than manual stirring. I have also had to buy a larger triangle-shaped stirring bar to increase the stirring rate.

 

Let me know if you decide to get one and need a hand setting it up.



#269 timpoblete

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 07:38 AM

2e3azaja.jpg

This is the magnetic stirring hot plate that I'm using. I believe it's an older model of what Ruben is using. I purchase a large triangle shaped stirring rod for this. Also, the pot that I'm using in this picture is not the one that I'm current using (this pic was of my first attempt before purchasing the right size stainless steel mixing bowl from Muji).

Edited by timpoblete, 20 April 2014 - 07:44 AM.


#270 Ruben Porto

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 08:13 AM

Looks good Tim. I'm getting magnetic stirring hot plate envy. Did you not get an external temperature probe that connects to the machine with yours?







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