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Home Made Ice Cream (2015– )


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On 4/15/2020 at 3:42 AM, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

Typically I pull my ice cream after no more than 15 minutes in the ICE-100.  

 

 

Why do you pull your ice cream after only 15 minutes?  I let mine go until the machine tells me it's ready (it is a Breville and plays a rune, currently the theme from The Sting).

 

Another question:  yesterday I was rooting around in my baking supplies and found a bag labeled Dextrose (corn sugar).  It had been opened and some of it used but I don't remember what for.  If I were to replace sugar with dextrose in ice cream, two questions come to mind:

 

Is it an equal substitution?

Why do you substitute?

 

I re-read the above chit-chat but it isn't clear to me.

 

Edited to add:  1 kg. Of dextrose is $3.89 Cdn. at my home brew place.

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4 hours ago, ElsieD said:

 

 

Why do you pull your ice cream after only 15 minutes?  I let mine go until the machine tells me it's ready (it is a Breville and plays a rune, currently the theme from The Sting).

 

Another question:  yesterday I was rooting around in my baking supplies and found a bag labeled Dextrose (corn sugar).  It had been opened and some of it used but I don't remember what for.  If I were to replace sugar with dextrose in ice cream, two questions come to mind:

 

Is it an equal substitution?

Why do you substitute?

 

I re-read the above chit-chat but it isn't clear to me.

 

Edited to add:  1 kg. Of dextrose is $3.89 Cdn. at my home brew place.

 

 

I have found, at least with my current Cuisinart ICE-100, that the most important factor in controlling iciness is the time in the machine.  With this type of unit, time in the machine also affects overrun.  Of course one has to use judgment.  If the mixture looks like soup after 15 minutes, clearly something is not right.

 

Dextrose is lower molecular weight than sucrose.  It is also not as sweet..  @paulraphael has a nice writeup on his blog:

https://under-belly.org/sugars-in-ice-cream/

 

There is also a difference in flavor.  Somewhere in this thread I posted a study that showed tasters preferred ice cream with all sucrose when the ice cream was low fat.  At higher butterfat tasters preferred ice cream with some of the sucrose replaced by dextrose.

 

I use dextrose (and sometimes trehalose) to balance sweetness with freezing point depression.  Using all sucrose results in ice cream that is either too hard or too sweet.  Your choice.  But then I don't care for my ice cream as sweet as some might prefer.

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Results of this batch were excellent.  Maybe the solids were a little high due to the reduction properties of the new Falk pan.  But I wouldn't tell unless you asked.  I could easily consume the batch in one sitting.

 

After blast freezing the churned mix to -30C I warmed the Vesta freezer to -18C.  Scoopability was perfect.  Now on my second bowl.

 

 

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Have you tried using skim milk powder instead of reduction? If you get a good brand, it will be low-temperature spray-dried, so basically it will come pre-reduced, but done in a controlled process. You can then choose your cooking time and temperature based just on getting the level of protein denaturing you want. I suspect you'll find the denaturization makes a very small difference—especially in a high-fat, high-solids, high-egg formula. 

 

I'm curious to know what benefits you're seeing from the polysorbate when you've got 4 egg yolks in there. 

 

FWIW, I don't pay any attention to the different flavor profiles of the dominant sugars (sucrose, fructose, dextrose—besides relative sweetness). It's detectable, but I'd really be surprised if anyone would volunteer that they like the taste of 100% sucrose more than, say, 60/40 sucrose+dextrose, if sweetness levels are well balanced. In a food science study, people are probably being fed unflavored, very sweet ice cream, and then being told to choose. The differences are subtle, especially with something cold. Add flavors, and the differences go away.

 

The ratios of sucrose / dextrose / fructose are all over the place when you compare one kind of fruit to another. I think this is a very minor part of why the fruits taste different. When it comes to choosing sugars, I'm interested in getting the sweetness right (which I think should be lower than just about anyone else who publishes recipes) and getting the hardness right (which varies with preference and your chosen serving temperature). 

Notes from the underbelly

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1 hour ago, paulraphael said:

Have you tried using skim milk powder instead of reduction? If you get a good brand, it will be low-temperature spray-dried, so basically it will come pre-reduced, but done in a controlled process. You can then choose your cooking time and temperature based just on getting the level of protein denaturing you want. I suspect you'll find the denaturization makes a very small difference—especially in a high-fat, high-solids, high-egg formula. 

 

I'm curious to know what benefits you're seeing from the polysorbate when you've got 4 egg yolks in there. 

 

FWIW, I don't pay any attention to the different flavor profiles of the dominant sugars (sucrose, fructose, dextrose—besides relative sweetness). It's detectable, but I'd really be surprised if anyone would volunteer that they like the taste of 100% sucrose more than, say, 60/40 sucrose+dextrose, if sweetness levels are well balanced. In a food science study, people are probably being fed unflavored, very sweet ice cream, and then being told to choose. The differences are subtle, especially with something cold. Add flavors, and the differences go away.

 

The ratios of sucrose / dextrose / fructose are all over the place when you compare one kind of fruit to another. I think this is a very minor part of why the fruits taste different. When it comes to choosing sugars, I'm interested in getting the sweetness right (which I think should be lower than just about anyone else who publishes recipes) and getting the hardness right (which varies with preference and your chosen serving temperature). 

 

Yes, last month:

https://forums.egullet.org/topic/152508-home-made-ice-cream-2015–/?do=findComment&comment=2242010

 

I have a lifetime supply of polysorbate 80.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

Yes, last month:

https://forums.egullet.org/topic/152508-home-made-ice-cream-2015–/?do=findComment&comment=2242010

 

I have a lifetime supply of polysorbate 80.

 

 

 

If I read that right, you used skim milk powder plus reduction. They're both ways of increasing the solids. I'm suggesting you could make life easier and have quite a bit more control of all the variables if you you used milk solids and skipped the reduction entirely.

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10 minutes ago, paulraphael said:

 

If I read that right, you used skim milk powder plus reduction. They're both ways of increasing the solids. I'm suggesting you could make life easier and have quite a bit more control of all the variables if you you used milk solids and skipped the reduction entirely.

 

Yes, skim milk powder plus reduction.  But not as much reduction.  Further back in the thread Ruben says he switched to adding skim milk powder to the recipe not because the result was better, which he says it is not, but because skim milk powder made the ice cream easier to make at home.

 

With regard to polysorbate 80, it could be my imagination but I think I like the ice cream melting characteristics better.  With this style ice cream I have not found other additives that I have in house beneficial.  (Unlike when making Philadelphia ice cream, which is a different story.)

 

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Hi all,

 

I'm a new member and have enjoyed reading this topic from the beginning.  I love trying new and improved ways to make ice cream and my ultimate goal is to make a home made version of Baskin Robbins chocolate peanut butter ice cream (chocolate ice cream with peanut butter ribbon).  I've nailed vanilla and still tinker with my recipe here and there. So now I've turned to chocolate peanut butter, but in many efforts haven't been able to produce anything I love yet.   If anyone's willing, I'd appreciate any suggestions for a recipe.  Here's what I have in my ice cream making arsenal right now from memory;  Whole milk 3.5%, heavy cream 18%,  eggs of course, valrhona chocolate disks in varying sweetness, valrhona cocoa powder, inulin, lecithin powser, sucrose, dextrose powder, invert sugar, xanthan, guar gum, maltodextrin powder, gelatin. I'm sure there are a few things I'm forgetting but I'm hoping I can come up with a solid recipe with them.

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  • 1 month later...
On 5/21/2020 at 12:45 AM, SeanT said:

Hi all,

 

I'm a new member and have enjoyed reading this topic from the beginning.  I love trying new and improved ways to make ice cream and my ultimate goal is to make a home made version of Baskin Robbins chocolate peanut butter ice cream (chocolate ice cream with peanut butter ribbon).  I've nailed vanilla and still tinker with my recipe here and there. So now I've turned to chocolate peanut butter, but in many efforts haven't been able to produce anything I love yet.   If anyone's willing, I'd appreciate any suggestions for a recipe.  Here's what I have in my ice cream making arsenal right now from memory;  Whole milk 3.5%, heavy cream 18%,  eggs of course, valrhona chocolate disks in varying sweetness, valrhona cocoa powder, inulin, lecithin powser, sucrose, dextrose powder, invert sugar, xanthan, guar gum, maltodextrin powder, gelatin. I'm sure there are a few things I'm forgetting but I'm hoping I can come up with a solid recipe with them.

Hi!! Welcome to the discussion. Lots of passionate people here and they know their stuff....me I’m a poser hahaha. Anyways can I suggest you getting 2 books. One is the latest perfect scoop. Simply because a lot of reviews on the recipes there are good meaning it will give you good results. The second one which for someone like me is more interesting AND will aid you a lot when you want to start being adventurous and spreading your creative wings is hello my name is ice cream

 

i think having those 2 is a great combo. Be warned ice cream will drag you and keep you in its tantalizing delicious arms and you will probably end up buying a lot of things!!  Cookbooks on ice cream become hard to resist and you’ll end up buying a lot just to see what they can do and how they do it.  You’ll prolly look into the jenis books, then van Leeuwen, ample hills, salt and straw, bi rite etc etc etc.

 

youve been warned!! :)

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2 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

Don't forget an homogenizer and a blast freezer.

 

See. It’s already starting hahaha Sean will find so many things in his kitchen in the next few months

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14 hours ago, ccp900 said:

Hi!! Welcome to the discussion. Lots of passionate people here and they know their stuff....me I’m a poser hahaha. Anyways can I suggest you getting 2 books. One is the latest perfect scoop. Simply because a lot of reviews on the recipes there are good meaning it will give you good results. The second one which for someone like me is more interesting AND will aid you a lot when you want to start being adventurous and spreading your creative wings is hello my name is ice cream

 

i think having those 2 is a great combo. Be warned ice cream will drag you and keep you in its tantalizing delicious arms and you will probably end up buying a lot of things!!  Cookbooks on ice cream become hard to resist and you’ll end up buying a lot just to see what they can do and how they do it.  You’ll prolly look into the jenis books, then van Leeuwen, ample hills, salt and straw, bi rite etc etc etc.

 

youve been warned!! :)

 

I wrote a review of ice cream books, if anyone's interested. The intended audience is people who have already been dragged in deep. Hello My Name is Ice Cream is one of the top picks. 

Notes from the underbelly

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11 hours ago, paulraphael said:

 

I wrote a review of ice cream books, if anyone's interested. The intended audience is people who have already been dragged in deep. Hello My Name is Ice Cream is one of the top picks. 

Hi Paul always appreciate your posts there I’ve read your article as well hehe.  Waiting for your next one........maybe the effects of starch and starchy ingredients to your balancing....if you use for example potatoes (that doesn’t sound good) or yams and even rice

 

or maybe even a sort of short masterclass on stab/Emul. Like how to use them for very specific textural effects...for example if you want more chew then a blend of stab 1 and stab 2 would be good

 

another one is breaking down famous brands using their labels. That could be a good exercise and see if we can break down the ingredients and the numbers into a working recipe as well as explain the components

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Thanks CCP900!  I've already read The Perfect Scoop but will add the other to my reading list.  I am definitely in deep already, though I don't have a homogenizer or blast freezer.  I appreiate Paul's expertise and insight and have enjoyed reading the information on his blog, so thank you Paul.  I have a plethora of ingreadients for ice cream making and don't know I could add much to the cabinet other than Trehalose.  As I mentioned before I enjoy tinkering with different recipes to see if I can make ice cream I already enjoy even better.  Still working on the chocolate ice cream with peanut butter and my wife ( who doesn't really like ice cream, gasp!) asked if i could make her some vanilla that came out of the freezer more like soft serve.  She has sensitive teeth and prefers her ice cream in more of a melted state when its less cold.  Challenge excepted!  Thanks everyone for the warm welcome.

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1 hour ago, SeanT said:

Thanks CCP900!  I've already read The Perfect Scoop but will add the other to my reading list.  I am definitely in deep already, though I don't have a homogenizer or blast freezer.  I appreiate Paul's expertise and insight and have enjoyed reading the information on his blog, so thank you Paul.  I have a plethora of ingreadients for ice cream making and don't know I could add much to the cabinet other than Trehalose.  As I mentioned before I enjoy tinkering with different recipes to see if I can make ice cream I already enjoy even better.  Still working on the chocolate ice cream with peanut butter and my wife ( who doesn't really like ice cream, gasp!) asked if i could make her some vanilla that came out of the freezer more like soft serve.  She has sensitive teeth and prefers her ice cream in more of a melted state when its less cold.  Challenge excepted!  Thanks everyone for the warm welcome.

You could formulate your ice cream so that it’s actually at 70% frozen state at higher temps so that your wife can enjoy it more. You might need to let the ice cream warm up before serving but at least the wife doesn’t get melted ice cream for dessert

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My copy of Rose's Ice Cream Bliss arrived today.  I ordered glucose DE 42 to give her recipes a fair shake.  I have no experience with using glucose so it should be fun.  However my cream is not ultra pasteurized so I plan to cook my mix more than she suggests.

 

@ElsieD Rose's mango recipe calls for canned mango, just so you know.  Rose feels Indian canned mango is far superior to fresh.

 

Fun times.

 

 

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1 hour ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

My copy of Rose's Ice Cream Bliss arrived today.  I ordered glucose DE 42 to give her recipes a fair shake.  I have no experience with using glucose so it should be fun.  However my cream is not ultra pasteurized so I plan to cook my mix more than she suggests.

 

@ElsieD Rose's mango recipe calls for canned mango, just so you know.  Rose feels Indian canned mango is far superior to fresh.

 

Fun times.

 

 

That probably has a lot of sugar.  I would say the benefit would be some level of consistency since canned retail products need to taste the same generally....each can needs to be in spec.  This is hard to do using natural mangoes

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Something interesting I saw

 

https://www.gelarecipes.com/gelato-online-course

 

also another book that looks interesting as well

https://www.booksforchefs.com/en/professional-ice-cream-books/185-30-indispensable-ice-creams-jaume-turro.html

 

 

 

theres another book by 4 gelato masters but it’s in Italian.....anyone speak or read Italian here to help in translation hehehe
 

https://www.booksforchefs.com/en/professional-ice-cream-books/254-avanguardia-gelato.html

 

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17 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

My copy of Rose's Ice Cream Bliss arrived today.  I ordered glucose DE 42 to give her recipes a fair shake.  I have no experience with using glucose so it should be fun.  However my cream is not ultra pasteurized so I plan to cook my mix more than she suggests.

 

@ElsieD Rose's mango recipe calls for canned mango, just so you know.  Rose feels Indian canned mango is far superior to fresh.

 

Fun times.

 

 

 

Interesting.   I am able to buy frozen mango puree at a Mexican store and I imagine that they would have the canned as well.  I bought frozen mango chunks at Costco and didn't care for them.  A number of the chunks were not very ripe, thus not very sweet.   I can adjust for not having 40% whipping cream but not for it not being ultra pasteurized.  I don't know if it is worth my while to get the book  given those constraints.

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2 hours ago, ElsieD said:

 

Interesting.   I am able to buy frozen mango puree at a Mexican store and I imagine that they would have the canned as well.  I bought frozen mango chunks at Costco and didn't care for them.  A number of the chunks were not very ripe, thus not very sweet.   I can adjust for not having 40% whipping cream but not for it not being ultra pasteurized.  I don't know if it is worth my while to get the book  given those constraints.

 

In particular Rose recommends the Ratna brand for mango.  She says: "Many canned brands of mango pulp taste more like peach than mango flavor."  A quick search shows Ratna is available from amazon and from Indian grocery stores.  (But not from amazon.ca.)

 

The way the recipe is written it does not require ultra pasteurized milk or cream.  Not having read much of the book yet, I doubt that anything actually requires ultra pasteurized cream.  I could be wrong but I think what Rose is saying is that you can skip heating the bulk of the cream if the cream is ultra pasteurized.

 

I'm surprised though that you can't find ultra pasteurized cream in Ottawa.  It is all but ubiquitous down here.  And from what I've read ultra pasteurized cream is difficult to avoid in Canada.

 

https://edibletoronto.ediblecommunities.com/eat/whatever-happened-pure-cream

 

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On 7/9/2020 at 2:20 AM, ccp900 said:

Hi Paul always appreciate your posts there I’ve read your article as well hehe.  Waiting for your next one........maybe the effects of starch and starchy ingredients to your balancing....if you use for example potatoes (that doesn’t sound good) or yams and even rice

 

or maybe even a sort of short masterclass on stab/Emul. Like how to use them for very specific textural effects...for example if you want more chew then a blend of stab 1 and stab 2 would be good

 

another one is breaking down famous brands using their labels. That could be a good exercise and see if we can break down the ingredients and the numbers into a working recipe as well as explain the components

 

 

Hmmm, starches? This hasn't come up. I've never made ice cream with starchy ingredients, and haven't seen anything written on the topic. Did you have something in mind?

 

Regarding stabilizers, I tried to give a sense in the stabilizer article of how the different ingredients work with each other, and their various qualities. In order to go much deeper, I'd have to do the kinds of experimental trials that I just don't have the resources to do. There are just so many variables, and they all interact. 

 

Even testing and comparing commercial blends ... that's a lot of work. And I'm not especially interested in them. It's so easy to roll your own, and then not terribly difficult to make a variation here or there to tweak your results. It's a fair amount of work, to do this—to experiment to get the results that YOU want. But a monumental amount of work to try to create a guide that tells everyone how to get what they want. 

 

I'd suggest using the standard blend on that page as a starting point. Then one variable at a time you change the proportions, or substitute ingredients. 

Notes from the underbelly

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3 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

In particular Rose recommends the Ratna brand for mango.  She says: "Many canned brands of mango pulp taste more like peach than mango flavor."  A quick search shows Ratna is available from amazon and from Indian grocery stores.  (But not from amazon.ca.)

 

The way the recipe is written it does not require ultra pasteurized milk or cream.  Not having read much of the book yet, I doubt that anything actually requires ultra pasteurized cream.  I could be wrong but I think what Rose is saying is that you can skip heating the bulk of the cream if the cream is ultra pasteurized.

 

I'm surprised though that you can't find ultra pasteurized cream in Ottawa.  It is all but ubiquitous down here.  And from what I've read ultra pasteurized cream is difficult to avoid in Canada.

 

https://edibletoronto.ediblecommunities.com/eat/whatever-happened-pure-cream

 

 

In general you'll get better results if you heat the cream along with everything else. This is because the fat globules in the cream need to be heated in order to bind with whatever emulsifying ingredients you're using (lecithin from egg yolk, or whatever). Even if you didn't heat the cream, why would it need to be ultrapasteurized? Any kind of pasteurized is safe enough. 

 

That Edible Toronto article is layers deep in dubious information and conjecture. I'd regard everything it says about carrageenan with healthy skepticism.. Unfortunately the author consulted with a food philosopher, not a food scientist. I'd be very interested in talking to a food philosopher about issues of ethics, free will, the nature of consciousness, or the hermeneutics of Apicius.  But when it comes to evaluating a paper written about carrageenan, you need a scientist. 

 

A food scientist might point out that the only modern scientific literature on earth that finds fault with carrageenan has been authored by Dr. Tobacman and her small team. And that Dr. Tobacman hasn't published on any other topic. And that her studies are low-quality. And that she isn't a scientist. She's seems to have it in for a particular seaweed extract that people have been thickening food with for 500 years. But anyway.

 

Personally, I prefer to not use ultrapasteurized cream, or any cream with carrageenan in it (they put it in low-temperature pasteurized cream, too, because it makes whipping easier). My reasons have nothing to do with safety or conspiracies. 

 

UHT cream has been cooked (very briefly) at a very high temperature, which is hot enough to denature the milk proteins past the point that I think is ideal for ice cream texture. When you denature the proteins to the right degree, they behave as an emulsifier, and help—a little bit—with creamy texture and stability of the ice cream's foam structure.

 

I don't want carrageenan in my cream, either—not because I don't like it, but because I want to be able to control the quantity. I put in my own carrageenan (and my own guar, and my own locust bean gum, and sometimes my own sodium carboxymethyl cellulose). If the dairy has put gums in there too, I'll never know how much, or if it's the same in this brand as that brand, this week as next week. I want a clean slate. Small quantities matter.

 

 

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Notes from the underbelly

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If it wasn't clear I have no love for ultra pasteurized dairy products.  I avoid them whenever possible.  Carrageenan (or perhaps carrageenan and glycerides) in ultra pasteurized cream is disgusting because at best the cream ends up like snot.  I have never, ever seen ultra pasteurized cream for sale without carrageenan and glycerides as additives.

 

I linked the Edible Toronto article only to demonstrate ultra pasteurized cream was readily available in Ontario, if not in Ottawa.

 

But I have nothing against carrageenan per se.  I sleep with a bag of carrageenan in my bedroom.

 

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8 hours ago, paulraphael said:

 

Hmmm, starches? This hasn't come up. I've never made ice cream with starchy ingredients, and haven't seen anything written on the topic. Did you have something in mind?

 

Regarding stabilizers, I tried to give a sense in the stabilizer article of how the different ingredients work with each other, and their various qualities. In order to go much deeper, I'd have to do the kinds of experimental trials that I just don't have the resources to do. There are just so many variables, and they all interact. 

 

Even testing and comparing commercial blends ... that's a lot of work. And I'm not especially interested in them. It's so easy to roll your own, and then not terribly difficult to make a variation here or there to tweak your results. It's a fair amount of work, to do this—to experiment to get the results that YOU want. But a monumental amount of work to try to create a guide that tells everyone how to get what they want. 

 

I'd suggest using the standard blend on that page as a starting point. Then one variable at a time you change the proportions, or substitute ingredients. 

Hi Paul. Oh I agree about the gigantic work if we want to experiment first hand I’m so sorry pls note that I am not demanding you do all the work for us. I was merely trying to suggest topics hehe

 

on starches. Personally I would be interested in how to balance them.  Are they purely solids or do they affect the viscosity enough that you need to work out the stab emul balance you have.  Something like if you make a rice based gelato or even a sweet potato gelato where you don’t just steep but you blend the actual ingredient into the mix
 

on the commercial suggestion I wanted to clarify what I meant to say was commercial ice creams like for example if we take a Ben and Jerry’s pint what can we guess based on the ingredients and nutrition label

 

pls do note I am not pushing for you to do those things I was just trying to make suggestions of possibly interesting topics to write about. I hope you didn’t think I was arrogant enough to do that

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      6-8 tablespoons of sugar
      2-3 tablespoons of potato flour

      Wash the cranberries and put them with the cinnamon and cloves in a pan. Pour in 500ml of water and boil until the fruit is soft. Remove the cinnamon and cloves and blend the rest. Add the sugar and mix it until it has dissolved. Sieve the cranberry mousse to make a smooth texture. Mix the potato flour with a bit of cold water. Boil the cranberry mousse and add the mixed potato flour, stirring constantly so it is not lumpy. Boil for a while. Pour the kissel into some glasses.

      Enjoy your meal!

    • By Kasia
      CRANBERRY-APPLE CAKE
       
      The worst thing about my cranberry-apple cake is the way it looks. It didn't look impressive, but it was so yummy it disappeared from the baking pan before it had completely cooled down. My children said that it was a colourful apple pie, and it really was something like that. Apples with cinnamon are the basis of apple pie – one of my favourite cakes. However, the sour cranberries make it more fresh and interesting. The crumble topping was, for my son, the most important part of the cake. I had to drive him away, because otherwise the cake would have been deprived of its crunchy top.

      Ingredients (18×26cm cake tin ):
      dough
      200g of flour
      150g of butter
      3 eggs
      1 packet of powdered vanilla blancmange
      1 teaspoon of vanilla essence
      200g of sugar
      1 teaspoon of baking powder
      pinch of salt
      fruit
      250g of fresh cranberries
      1 apple
      3 tablespoons of brown sugar
      1 teaspoon of cinnamon
      crumble topping
      5 tablespoons of brown sugar
      100g of butter
      150g of flour
       
      First make the crumble topping. Put the cool butter, flour and sugar in a bowl. Knead them until you have small lumps. Leave it in the fridge.
      Heat the oven up to 180C. Cover a cake tin with some baking paper.
      Mix the flour with the baking powder and salt. Cream the butter with the sugar. Add egg after egg to the butter, stirring constantly. Add the flour, vanilla essence and powdered vanilla blancmange. Mix it together until you have a smooth dough. Put the dough into the cake tin. Wash the apple, remove the apple core and cube it. Mix the cranberries, apple, sugar and cinnamon in a bowl. Put the fruit on top of the dough. Cover the fruit with the crumble topping. Bake for 50 minutes.

      Enjoy your meal!

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