Jump to content
  • Welcome to the eG Forums, a service of the eGullet Society for Culinary Arts & Letters. The Society is a 501(c)3 not-for-profit organization dedicated to the advancement of the culinary arts. These advertising-free forums are provided free of charge through donations from Society members. Anyone may read the forums, but to post you must create a free account.

Darienne

Home Made Ice Cream (2015– )

Recommended Posts

9 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

Not to kick her while she's down but didn't Jeni's process already lead to all kinds of carnage?

 

 

Fortunately no one ever got sick, but they had what might be a couple of close calls. They found samples of lysteria in the kitchen during monthly inspections and as a precaution recalled a bunch of ice cream. This contributed to their decision to offload the raw milk operations (including mixing and pasteurizing the ice cream) to a dairy.


Edited by paulraphael (log)

Notes from the underbelly

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

this is what I mean by having a great community. lots of very smart and talented people sharing and providing helpful insights.  thanks paul jo sweet and everyone else.

 

Paul, bit of a question.  I think what jeni did in her book was to according to her work backwards. she had the texture and body in mind and working with just grocery level items and a lowly cuisinart (not even the compressor type) she went ahead and tried developing the same body and texture.  hence why she uses cornstarch and light syrup versus what she said she uses in the factory which are tapioca syrup and tapioca starch.  this also leads me to believe that she might actually not use cream cheese in her actual product but her process of reducing raw milk accomplishes the same thing.

 

here's another question. if jenis has grown to a level where she can now afford to use raw milk and use high end pasteurizers and homogenizers (I think now its outsourced due to the listeria scare they had a frw years ago which she now calls the fellowship model) she had to start small somewhere sometime. I wonder what her old old process was.  being a small business she would not probably have had the scale required to outsource nor prepare in house her special milk blend.

 

I saw a YouTube video with a bag that said concentrated milk solids. I wonder who made that bag I can't find the video now.  might be a better source of milk solids versus what we find in the grocery.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, ccp900 said:

this also leads me to believe that she might actually not use cream cheese in her actual product but her process of reducing raw milk accomplishes the same thing.

 

 

That's right. The cream cheese is a hack to simulate the emulsifying power she gets at the factory from milk proteins.

 

3 hours ago, ccp900 said:

I saw a YouTube video with a bag that said concentrated milk solids. I wonder who made that bag I can't find the video now.  might be a better source of milk solids versus what we find in the grocery.

 

Maybe, but I'm really not sure what improvements you'd get over using high quality nonfat dried milk. If you can't find that at a local store, it's easy to get on Amazon. 

 

Also keep in mind that Jeni's uses its protein denaturizing process purely to substitute for eggs. You should ask yourself how important this is to you. If you simply don't like the flavor of eggs in ice cream, or the flavor-masking of heavy custard, you can always just use fewer eggs. I use two yolks per liter (less than 4% by weight). This is more than enough emulsifier, and enough to influence the texture a bit. I don't notice any egg flavor or muting. You can use as little as 1/4 yolk, but will forsake any of the textural advantages yolks can offer.

 

Using cornstarch or tapioca starch as a stabilizer is an effort at label-friendliness. Those ingredients sound "natural" to customers, while the gums that work better sound scary. In real life, I don't understand the distinction between powder dried from a cassava root and powder dried from a locust bean seed. They're both polysaccharides. The one from the locust bean tree will work better, and at 1/10 the concentration.

  • Like 1

Notes from the underbelly

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, paulraphael said:

 

That's right. The cream cheese is a hack to simulate the emulsifying power she gets at the factory from milk proteins.

 

 

Maybe, but I'm really not sure what improvements you'd get over using high quality nonfat dried milk. If you can't find that at a local store, it's easy to get on Amazon. 

 

Also keep in mind that Jeni's uses its protein denaturizing process purely to substitute for eggs. You should ask yourself how important this is to you. If you simply don't like the flavor of eggs in ice cream, or the flavor-masking of heavy custard, you can always just use fewer eggs. I use two yolks per liter (less than 4% by weight). This is more than enough emulsifier, and enough to influence the texture a bit. I don't notice any egg flavor or muting. You can use as little as 1/4 yolk, but will forsake any of the textural advantages yolks can offer.

 

Using cornstarch or tapioca starch as a stabilizer is an effort at label-friendliness. Those ingredients sound "natural" to customers, while the gums that work better sound scary. In real life, I don't understand the distinction between powder dried from a cassava root and powder dried from a locust bean seed. They're both polysaccharides. The one from the locust bean tree will work better, and at 1/10 the concentration.

 

thanks paul.  i am also leaning into using 1 yolk for the emulsification properties - ill try that soon.  I realized i like using a philly base for chocolate ice cream more than the custard base but like you said 1 yolk wont be much - 1 yolk is around 18-20g so roughly a 2% ratio in my usual batch size.  also thinking about soy lecithin but i cant find them anywhere locally and no amazon where im from

 

also, i saw a video where they made a french custard ice cream base and then a meringue. they then mixed the custard base and meringue and then churned the whole thing.  has anyone seen this technique before or experimented?  i am guessing the meringue is to put in air even before churning but wouldnt the  action of the dasher just deflate the meringue removing any of that "advantage" of having pre-mixed air?

 

another reason why Jeni probably uses cream cheese on the home version is that it actually has stabilizers in it.  Her recipe for milky chocolate actually doesnt have cream cheese - she replaced it with a concentrated source of milk proteins - evaporated milk - which then leads me to another question - why cream cheese and not just get skim milk powder - thats cheaper and more concentrated - is there a reason/logic im not seeing?

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For chocolate I get rid of the eggs entirely. I want to get rid of every unnecessary source of fat. I add a bit of lecithin, but don't know if this is necessary. My chocolate flavor's still in beta testing.

 

Why don't you write to Jenni about the cream cheese? I never asked her about it because it's not what I'm up to. Probably there's some kind of emulsification / stabilization power that it has, but she finds it inappropriate for some flavors. Skim milk powder won't substitute for egg yolk, but I gather the cream cheese does in her home recipes. 


Notes from the underbelly

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, paulraphael said:

For chocolate I get rid of the eggs entirely. I want to get rid of every unnecessary source of fat. I add a bit of lecithin, but don't know if this is necessary. My chocolate flavor's still in beta testing.

 

Why don't you write to Jenni about the cream cheese? I never asked her about it because it's not what I'm up to. Probably there's some kind of emulsification / stabilization power that it has, but she finds it inappropriate for some flavors. Skim milk powder won't substitute for egg yolk, but I gather the cream cheese does in her home recipes. 

hahaha, i didnt think she would even read an email from a random person to tell you the truth hehehe.  did you email the contact@jenis.com email address?  i can definitely try asking her

 

let me clarify my other statement.  I was asking if Jeni uses the cream cheese only for the additional proteins to develop the body (i say this because in her book she said that adding evaporated milk adds proteins to give it the body required and hence no cream cheese is required) then why just eliminate cream cheese entirely and just use milk powder.

 

she also says this about cream cheese - cream cheese is high in casein due to the acid being added to the milk and this helps bind the ingredients and gives the ice cream the requisite body


Edited by ccp900 (log)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

does anyone have a homemade peanut butter cup recipe that wont freeze in the ice cream??  im thinking of melting the peanut butter and adding sugar and coconut oil. chocolate will also be melted and coconut oil added to stop them from being stones in the ice cream hehe. good plan?

 

ah or better yet - mix the peanut butter with glucose and salt to bring back the saltiness......you guys think this will work?


Edited by ccp900 (log)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have not been making ice cream in a while.  Yesterday I tasted (well, somewhat more than tasted) a commercial ice cream that I would like to rip off and recreate at home.  The brand is Kwality.  Kwality claims to be "all natural", whatever that may mean.  According to the NY Times the Kwality butterfat is 14 percent.  The ice cream is only slightly sweet.  Not cloying on the palate.  One could eat a lot.  My son asserted it did not contain eggs.

 

The texture was perfect.  No iciness whatsoever and slow melting.  If I made up a batch of low sugar, 14 percent butter fat ice cream, no eggs...I would have a hard, grainy, poorly melting mess.

 

Any thoughts on how they do it?  My best efforts at high fat eggless ice cream have been OK, sort of reminiscent of whipped cream, but they melt fast and don't store well at all.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

I have not been making ice cream in a while.  Yesterday I tasted (well, somewhat more than tasted) a commercial ice cream that I would like to rip off and recreate at home.  The brand is Kwality.  Kwality claims to be "all natural", whatever that may mean.  According to the NY Times the Kwality butterfat is 14 percent.  The ice cream is only slightly sweet.  Not cloying on the palate.  One could eat a lot.  My son asserted it did not contain eggs.

 

The texture was perfect.  No iciness whatsoever and slow melting.  If I made up a batch of low sugar, 14 percent butter fat ice cream, no eggs...I would have a hard, grainy, poorly melting mess.

 

Any thoughts on how they do it?  My best efforts at high fat eggless ice cream have been OK, sort of reminiscent of whipped cream, but they melt fast and don't store well at all.

 

 

Here is a link to the ingredients for some of their flavors. Note they are using vegetable fat, not butterfat, and also a lot of emulsifiers.

 

http://www.kwality.ae/product/chocolate/

 


Mark

My eG Food Blog

www.markiscooking.com

My T shirt site: Guy Bling

My NEW Ribs site: BlasphemyRibs.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, mgaretz said:

 

Here is a link to the ingredients for some of their flavors. Note they are using vegetable fat, not butterfat, and also a lot of emulsifiers.

 

http://www.kwality.ae/product/chocolate/

 

There is also another company called Kwality - here - his has 14% butterfat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, mgaretz said:

 

Here is a link to the ingredients for some of their flavors. Note they are using vegetable fat, not butterfat, and also a lot of emulsifiers.

 

http://www.kwality.ae/product/chocolate/

 

 

Different brand.  Here's what I am speaking of:

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/01/dining/kwality-ice-cream-india.html

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

Different brand.  Here's what I am speaking of:

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/01/dining/kwality-ice-cream-india.html

 

 

 

Jo - does he sell packaged ice cream with an ingredient list?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Kerry Beal said:

Jo - does he sell packaged ice cream with an ingredient list?

 

No packaged ice cream that I could find.  The ice cream cakes have a sign that says egg free.  I looked around the store and the website but could find no information about ingredients further than "all natural".

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In terms of getting a softer ice cream, Alton Brown instructs to use Vodka...around 2 T per batch to help make ice cream soft.  I tried it and it doesn't help.  Can't comment on the rest as I am relatively new to ice cream making.  I did find this website very helpful and I think the fellow has posted on this thread.

http://icecreamscience.com/science/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, Okanagancook said:

In terms of getting a softer ice cream, Alton Brown instructs to use Vodka...around 2 T per batch to help make ice cream soft.  I tried it and it doesn't help.  Can't comment on the rest as I am relatively new to ice cream making.  I did find this website very helpful and I think the fellow has posted on this thread.

http://icecreamscience.com/science/

 

Years ago (well, 2012) I tried adding ethanol of one persuasion or another, as recommended by Rose Levy Beranbaum in The Cake Bible.  For me I found alcohol really did improve the texture:

 

https://forums.egullet.org/topic/144208-home-made-ice-cream-2013–/

(First post of this topic.)

 

A member replied suggesting icecreamscience.com (second post of this topic).  Funny how things come round!  I've been following Ruben's methods ever since.  Though not necessarily Ruben's recipes.  I like higher fat.  Ruben has posted here from time to time and I have been grateful for his insight.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

Different brand.  Here's what I am speaking of:

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/01/dining/kwality-ice-cream-india.html

 

 

 

 

I stand corrected.  But I'd go into one of the parlors and ask to see the ingredient list.   If they ask why, tell them food allergies.

  • Like 2

Mark

My eG Food Blog

www.markiscooking.com

My T shirt site: Guy Bling

My NEW Ribs site: BlasphemyRibs.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, mgaretz said:

 

I stand corrected.  But I'd go into one of the parlors and ask to see the ingredient list.   If they ask why, tell them food allergies.

 

Must they share that information?  I would have asked but I thought the question might be rather rude.  Granted imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.  Not to mention the dipper was answering most questions in Hindi.

 

Now that you mention it, there was a sign up that informed the ice cream is produced in a facility that processes nuts.  (Pistachio saffron is a flavor to remember.)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Okanagancook said:

In terms of getting a softer ice cream, Alton Brown instructs to use Vodka...around 2 T per batch to help make ice cream soft.  I tried it and it doesn't help.  Can't comment on the rest as I am relatively new to ice cream making.  I did find this website very helpful and I think the fellow has posted on this thread.

http://icecreamscience.com/science/

 

Vodka will definitely soften the ice cream ... ethanol has enormous powers of freezing point depression. But I don't think adding alcohol is the best solution, because you'll trade hardness for iciness. Alcohol will increase the amount of unfrozen water in the final product, without doing anything to control that water. 

 

The most elegant way I know to control hardness is with sugars. Adding dextrose to the mix allows you to control hardness and sweetness independently. Fructose or invert syrup will offer even more control. I've written about this here


Notes from the underbelly

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

Any thoughts on how they do it?  My best efforts at high fat eggless ice cream have been OK, sort of reminiscent of whipped cream, but they melt fast and don't store well at all.

 

 

I'd start with an added emulsifier, like lecithin (find a brand that doesn't have a strong taste. Like WillPowder). Then a bit of stabilizer. I like to mix my own. For eggless ice creams, sometimes a little extra lambda carrageenan will give the same custardy mouthfeel as egg yolk. 


Notes from the underbelly

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's a little more ingredient information for some of the flavors.  The pistachio saffron that I loved is made with Spanish saffron.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, paulraphael said:

 

I'd start with an added emulsifier, like lecithin (find a brand that doesn't have a strong taste. Like WillPowder). Then a bit of stabilizer. I like to mix my own. For eggless ice creams, sometimes a little extra lambda carrageenan will give the same custardy mouthfeel as egg yolk. 

 

I never said the Kwality flavors contain no eggs.  My son said the ice cream didn't contain eggs. And the sign said the cakes did not contain eggs.  If you told me what I ate was rich with golden yolks I'd just as soon believe you.

 

Probably @mgaretz is right.  If I ever visit Kwality again I should politely ask.  Worst they could do is throw me out and tell me never to come back.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Probably does not contain eggs, as certain Indian (East Asian) sects do not eat eggs.


"Only dull people are brilliant at breakfast" - Oscar Wilde

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/18/2018 at 11:39 PM, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

I never said the Kwality flavors contain no eggs.  My son said the ice cream didn't contain eggs. And the sign said the cakes did not contain eggs.  If you told me what I ate was rich with golden yolks I'd just as soon believe you.

 

Probably @mgaretz is right.  If I ever visit Kwality again I should politely ask.  Worst they could do is throw me out and tell me never to come back.

 

 

Here's the Indian version:

milk solids, sugar, vegetable fat, glucose, emulsifier E471. Stabilizers: E407, E412, E466, water and artificial vanilla flavour

http://www.kwality.ae/product/vanilla/

 

Dr. Parekh is probably making something a little closer to his roots. But I wouldn't be surprised if it's eggless. He's a food scientist, so he should know how to get any texture he wants without eggs. 

The Times article shows that he gets the importance or lower sweetness ... that's encouraging. 

  • Like 1

Notes from the underbelly

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just finished a post on chocolate ice cream.

 

This was a long time in the making! 15 prototypes. 

 

There are two recipes; one that uses both couverture and cocoa powder, which I think represents the best compromise for right now.

An one that's 100% cocoa, for when we can get our hands on really good single-origin cocoa powders.

 

I think that day is coming. Some of the big manufacturers are advertising them (but I don't know where to find them), and many small makers are selling them now (but they don't seem able to mill the powder fine enough yet). But I'm hopeful. 

 

I may slightly update these recipes with some tweaks to the stabilizer blend, but I think they're very close.

  • Like 4

Notes from the underbelly

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Similar Content

    • By Nn, M.D.
      I'm very excited to share with you all a recipe that I developed for a double crust apple pie.  I had been inspired a few weeks ago to come up with a series of 3-ingredient recipes that would focus on technique and flavor but still be simple enough for the unseasoned chef.  I decided to make an apple pie as a challenge to myself--never having made one before--and as a way to show those who might find pastry intimidating how easy and adaptable it can be.
       
      Basic Shortcrust Pastry
      Ingredients:
      - 300g flour
      - 227g salted butter, cold
      - 2 lemons, zested with juice reserved
       
      1. Cut butter into small chunks.  Beat butter, zest of the 2 lemons, and flour together with an electric mixer OR combine with pastry blender OR rub together with fingers OR blitz in a food processor until it resembles sand.
      2. Add just enough water to bring the mix together into a dough (about 20g for me).  You'll know your pastry is ready when you can press it together and it stays in one piece.
      3. Divide dough in two and wrap tightly with plastic.  Refrigerate for at least 2 hours, or overnight.
      4. When ready to use, roll out each portion to 13 inches in diameter. (I do this between two sheets of parchment paper.  Don't worry too much if the parchment sticks to the pastry. I periodically placed mine in the freezer to help keep everything cold, and the butter will separate from the parchment when frozen.)
      5. Take 1 portion of rolled dough and place it in a 9-inch tart tin with a removable bottom.  Gently press into the sides to ensure even coverage.  Place in the freezer for 30 minutes.  Freeze the other portion of dough in-between the parchment pieces.
       
      Apple Filling (and Assembly)
      - 1 kg apples (I used about 7 apples for this recipe.)
      - 220g dark brown sugar, divided
      - 1 egg, separated
       
      Making the apple butter: 
      1. Cut and core 500g of your apples, but do not peel.  Add cut apples, juice of the one lemon, about 100g or so of water, and 170g of sugar to a large saucepan.
      2. Bring to a boil over high heat, reduce to a simmer and cover.  Let the apples cook for 20-30 minutes or until tender.
      3. Remove from heat and blend until smooth.
      4. Return puree to saucepan and simmer uncovered over low heat, stirring occasionally, for an hour.  Color should deepen and the mixture should thicken slightly, but do not allow it to scorch.
      5. Remove from heat and refrigerate until cool.
       
      Apple filling:
      1. Peel, quarter, and core the remaining 500g of apples. Slice on a mandolin to about 1/8th inch thickness. Place sliced apples in a large bowl of cold water while slicing remaining apples.
      2. Once apples are sliced, drain water and add the juice from the remaining lemon, as well as the remaining 50g of sugar, over the apples. Stir to coat.
       
         
       
      Assembly:
      1. Remove pie base from the freezer.  Dock with a fork and brush on egg white.  Place back in the freezer and allow to set for for about 5-10 minutes.
      2. Pour the entire recipe of apple butter into the pie base and even out with an offset spatula.
      3. Arrange apple slices over the apple butter.
      4. Remove remaining pie dough from the freezer and cut designs in while still cold. Transfer to the surface of the pie and seal overhanging edges.  Trim excess dough.
      5. Brush top pastry with egg yolk (beaten with any remaining egg white) and bake in a 365˚F oven for 60-70 minutes.  Crust should be shiny and golden brown.
      6. Remove from oven and allow to cool completely before removing from tin.
       
      Some notes:
      The reason for using salted butter is I think the flavor incorporates a little better into the mix than if I were to use unsalted butter and added salt.  That being said, you could do that instead, though your recipe would then have 7 ingredients The addition of apple butter here takes the place of the normal apple pie filling, which is usually thickened with cornstarch and is typically quite sweet.  By using the apple butter, I push the flavor of apple forward beyond what you would find in a typically apple pie.  Also, the apple butter acts as a glue of sorts so that my slices are always clean, so no need to resort to adding thickeners or extra sweeteners. I'm always looking for a way around blind baking, and using an egg white seal has worked out very well for me. The egg white creates a water-tight layer between the crust and the filling, so no matter how wet my filling is, the crust will always bake crispy and won't get soggy for as long as the pie is around. Feel free to change this up as you see fit.  Obviously you can spices to this (I recommend cinnamon, clove, and cardamom) but the beauty of this pie is that it's really not necessary.  Although at first blush it may seem one-noted, the harmony between the flaky, almost savory crust and the bright and refreshing filling is one that doesn't need any help, in my honest opinion.  

       
      So there you have it! My 6-ingredient apple pie, sure to become a go-to for me, and hopefully for you as well!
       
    • By ResearchBunny
      Posted 6 hours ago Dear EGulleters,
      ResearchBunny here. I've just found you today. I've been lolling in bed with a bad cold, lost voice, wads of tissues, pillows, bedding around me. I spent all of yesterday binge-watching Season 2 of Zumbo's Just Desserts on Netflix from beginning to grand finale. I have been a hardcore devotee of Rose Levy Beranbaum since the beginning of my baking passion -- after learning that she wrote her master's thesis comparing the textural differences in cake crumb when using bleached versus unbleached flour. I sit up and pay attention to that level of serious and precision! While Beranbaum did study for a short while at a French pastry school, she hasn't taken on the challenge of writing recipes for entremets style cakes. That is, multi-layer desserts with cake, mousse, gelatin, nougatine or dacquoise layers all embedded in one form embellished with ice cream, granita, chocolate, coulis. After watching hours of the Zumbo contest, I became curious about the experience of designing these cakes. Some of the offered desserts struck me as far too busy, others were delightful combinations. I was surprised that a few contestants were eliminated when their offerings were considered too simple or, too sophisticated. So I'd like to hear from you about your suggestions for learning more about how to make entremets. And also, what you think about the show. And/or Zumbo.
      Many thanks.
      RB
      ps. The show sparked a fantasy entremet for my cold. Consider a fluffy matzo ball exterior, with interior layers of carrot, celery, a chicken mince, and a gelatin of dilled chicken broth at its heart!
    • By TexasMBA02
      After batting about .500 with my previous approach to macarons, I came across Pierre Herme's base recipe online.  After two flawless batches of macarons, I've been re-energized to continue to work at mastering them.  Specifically, I want to try more of his recipes.  My conundrum is that he has, as far as I can tell, two macaron cookbooks and I don't know which one I should get.  I can't tell if one is just an updated version of the other or a reissue or what the differences really are.  I was hoping somebody had some insight.  I have searched online and haven't seen both books referenced in the same context or contrasted at all.
       
      This one appears to be older.

       
      And this one appears to be the newer of the two.

       
      Any insight would be helpful.
       
      Thanks,
       
    • By pastrygirl
      Anyone have a favorite recipe for chocolate cake using semisweet chocolate?  My usual chocolate cake recipe uses cocoa, but I have some samples of chocolate I want to use up for a workplace party.  Yes, I could make brownies or ganache frosting, or chocolate mousse or chocolate chunk cookies, just feeling like cake this weekend ...
    • By onemorebitedelara.com
      Has anyone used Valrhona Absolut Crystal neutral glaze particularly to thicken a coulis or to glaze a tart?  If so, how did you like it and is there another glaze you think worked as well but is less expensive or can be purchased in smaller quantities?  
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...