Bay Leaf/Bay Leaves: The Topic

[torolover]

I often have to buy fresh bay leaves for a recipe, but have lots of leftovers.  

 

What is the best way to preserve bay leaves to keep their fresh taste?

 

Should I freeze the bay leaves in the freezer by wrapping them in saran wrap then put them in a ziplock?

 

Should I make  bay leaf oil by putting bay leaves in a blender with canola oil and then freezing them?

 

Should I make a bay leaf compound butter?

 

I assume all herbs like thyme and parsley should be preserved the same way?

Edited December 5, 2014 by torolover (log)

[cyalexa]

I vacuum seal clean, dry leaves and freeze. I do them in small packages that are dated. Once they are opened I just put them in an ordinary zip-top bag but do continue to keep them frozen.

Edited December 5, 2014 by cyalexa (log)

[Okanagancook]

They are pretty sturdy so stand up well to freezing.  I do exactly as Cyalexa suggests.

[andiesenji]

Put the fresh leaves in a wire colander on the counter.  Toss them every couple of days until they are dry enough that they snap when bent.

 

Store in an air-tight jar for 6-8 months. 

 

I grow my own Laurel Nobilis - "true" sweet bay - and have been drying and using them this way for years - as the dry leaves work better in soups and stews - most savory dishes.

 

Some dry leaves are de-stemmed and ground in a spice grinder and SIFTED so that only the powder is used in spice and herb mixtures, rubs, etc.

 

You can freeze the fresh leaves but only after vacuum sealing in a bag - otherwise they lose much of their flavor. 

 

Use caution in putting the leaves in a liquid and blending.  There can be tiny flakes of the leaves which will harden and become quite sharp and should not be consumed.  If you filter the oil or vinegar or use a fine mesh strainer, you will be okay. 

[lindag]

Is there really any major difference in the dried and the fresh?

I've only used the dried type but I'm open to finding a plant.  Do you use more of the fresh like other herbs?

Edited June 18, 2017 by lindag (log)

[liuzhou]

Many years ago in England, I had a bay plant. I always felt that, while I liked the plant, the flavour difference was negligible.

 

Here in China, I can buy fresh leaves in the market, but seldom do. The dried are just more convenient.

 

On an aside, I had never associated bay with China till I got here, but it's very common.

[ElsieD]

I used to have a bay leaf plant and could not tell the difference between fresh and dried leaves.

[andiesenji]

I use them fresh all the time.  I have two huge bay "bushes" which were supposed to be "dwarf" and not grow taller than 8 feet.

Ha!  I have had then trimmed when they reached 20' and again near that.

The aroma and flavor is exceptional.  One is a true Laurus Nobilis and the other is a Canary Island Laurus variant but has similar flavor and aroma.  Both were given to me by a friend who worked at the Huntington Gardens when I first moved up here in 1988.

I pick leaves and put them in a wire colander on my kitchen counter until they are completely dry and then I vac seal them and send them to friends.  

They are evergreen so I have a supply of fresh leaves all year although the aroma and flavor is strongest in the late spring. 

I lightly crush two or three leaves to simmer in milk or cream for a custard base - or when I want to make a cream sauce for vegetables.  The flavor is exquisite.  

 

I also save the straight stems when I prune the bushes and use them for skewers and they too impart flavor to meats, chicken, vegetables, etc.

 

The original "trunk" is behind the oldest scions. it is more than 8 inches in diameter just above the ground.

When first planted it was barely an inch in diameter.

 

This one has again reached 20' in height and is in the branches of the shade tree.

 

This is the Canary Island variant - which was not supposed to survive our winters at this altitude (2800 ft) and the hard freezes but it has survived temps down to 5°F.  Although I protected both the first few years.  

You can see that the leaves are slightly lighter, a bit more yellow in the green and they have "hairy" flower clusters. 

They also produce a lot of very large leaves.  

 

Edited June 18, 2017 by andiesenji (log)

[haresfur]

Wow Andie, impressive because they seem to grow slowly. I have one that is now about 2 m tall and more of a bush, which is fine with me because I'm growing it for the leaves, not for shade.

 

I find the fresh leaves are more delicate and I use more. I think the taste is a bit different. I probably should throw out my old store-bought dried leaves and dry some of my own since I now have enough to harvest.

 

When my family lived in England, the landlady was out front pruning trees and handed my very confused mother a branch as a gift. The landlady finally realised she had to explain that it was bay. I don't think my mother had ever seen it anywhere but in little packs before.

Edited June 19, 2017 by haresfur (log)

[andiesenji]

I sometimes cut out the center rib and put them in the dehydrator sandwiched between two of the "fruit leather drying sheets" until they are crumbly.  I put them in the spice grinder and grind to a fine powder and add just a tiny amount of corn starch.  This can then be "bloomed" in hot oil or butter to toss with vegetables or add to stews, etc.

 

There are commercial spice blends that use it, so why not make your own.  

[Thanks for the Crepes]

2 hours ago, andiesenji said:

I put them in the spice grinder and grind to a fine powder and add just a tiny amount of corn starch.  This can then be "bloomed" in hot oil or butter to toss with vegetables or add to stews, etc.

 

There are commercial spice blends that use it, so why not make your own.

 

Yes, this works fine.

 

The Betty Crocker Cookbook printed in 1976, which I love otherwise, recommends in their Italian Spaghetti recipe to crumble a dried bay leaf into the meat sauce, but I crossed those instructions out after hearing a story from my ex-SIL who is an occupational therapist. These dried leaves are so hard and sharp, impervious to digestion, that they can actually slice the gastro system. I love the flavor, and I'm very glad to hear that I'm not missing much by no access to the fresh leaves.

 

Just please, if you are using the dried, grind them to a powder as andiesenji says or use them whole and remove them so no one ingests them. This  poor guy my SIL was caring for got peritonitis. You do not want that. You DON'T.

 

I count my dried bay leaves, and keep searching until every one I used has been retrieved and discarded.

[gfron1]

On a side note, the original Art of Eating book proclaimed the large bay leaves bought at Indian markets were superior to the small ones bought everywhere else. I don't use bay often enough to know if its true, but at 10% of the price I've stuck with the larger leaves ever since.

[andiesenji]

This site has a few spice blends that include ground bay leaves.

 

Many Garam Masala blends include ground bay leaves.

 

Several online vendors sell ground bay leaves.  Years ago, when I was still prepping wild game for the hunters stationed at Edwards, one of the guys who entered barbecue contests used a lot of ground bay leaves in his "secret" rub.  He would come and prune my bushes for me and haul away a huge bundle of stems and leaves.  I sure missed him when he was transferred to another post.  His wife was not a cook, didn't want to learn but liked gardening.  I got her started growing herbs and gave them a couple of scions from my bays.  

Edited June 19, 2017 by andiesenji (log)

[haresfur]

On 6/19/2017 at 5:06 PM, Thanks for the Crepes said:

 

Yes, this works fine.

 

The Betty Crocker Cookbook printed in 1976, which I love otherwise, recommends in their Italian Spaghetti recipe to crumble a dried bay leaf into the meat sauce, but I crossed those instructions out after hearing a story from my ex-SIL who is an occupational therapist. These dried leaves are so hard and sharp, impervious to digestion, that they can actually slice the gastro system. I love the flavor, and I'm very glad to hear that I'm not missing much by no access to the fresh leaves.

 

Just please, if you are using the dried, grind them to a powder as andiesenji says or use them whole and remove them so no one ingests them. This  poor guy my SIL was caring for got peritonitis. You do not want that. You DON'T.

 

I count my dried bay leaves, and keep searching until every one I used has been retrieved and discarded.

 

I guess you don't have the tradition that whoever finds a bay leaf in their food has to kiss the cook 

[gulator]

Unfortunately, no garden for now    So, get bay leaves on-line in bulk and organic. Actually, for cooking this is very convenient, price is good, quality good, get another 1 pound bag whenever I need it. So, I am very satisfied  

[MokaPot]

Hi Guys: recently got some dried Turkish bay leaves from Penzeys. The leaves did have a nice fragrance, not strong, though. Made some split pea soup (yield was approx. 2 quarts or 2 liters). After cooking the onions, added four bay leaves (2 huge and 2 small). Soup did simmer for a while. No harm done by the bay leaves, but no detectable bay leaf flavor.

 

How many / much bay leaves are you supposed to add?

 

Also, looking for advice on what other things to put bay leaves in. I mostly eat vegetarian food.

 

Thank you!

 

[gfweb]

I've always suspected that dry bay leaves have lost most of the volatiles that give them flavor.

[Kerala]

I'd forgotten I'd posted on this thread 6 years ago. We're moving home soon, and I will be planting a bay bush and a rosemary bush as soon as I move in.

I often use bay leaves instead of nutmeg when I'm making a white sauce, and indeed did so this evening making chicken pie.

@MokaPot sorry, no idea about dried leaves. I'd suggest doubling the dose.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

43 minutes ago, MokaPot said:

Hi Guys: recently got some dried Turkish bay leaves from Penzeys. The leaves did have a nice fragrance, not strong, though. Made some split pea soup (yield was approx. 2 quarts or 2 liters). After cooking the onions, added four bay leaves (2 huge and 2 small). Soup did simmer for a while. No harm done by the bay leaves, but no detectable bay leaf flavor.

 

How many / much bay leaves are you supposed to add?

 

Also, looking for advice on what other things to put bay leaves in. I mostly eat vegetarian food.

 

Thank you!

 

 

I use the Turkish bay leaves from Penzeys.  I have been pleased with them.  The volatiles of bay leaf are almost insoluble in water.  Did you have a fair amount of fat in your soup to extract the flavor?

 

Can you describe the "bay leaf flavor" you were expecting and not finding?  McGee describes bay leaf component smells as "camphor, lavender, pine, woody".  Could you be expecting the flavor of California bay leaf, which is a different genus?  McGee describes California bay leaf smells as "fresh-harsh, medicinal, woody, pine".

 

A showcase for bay leaf is @lesliec's bay leaf ice cream.

 

[AlaMoi]

has anyone found a good reference for herb solvents as in cooking?

 

i.e.

some do better extracting in oil

some in water....

some in  alcohol....

 

I've not come up with a good guide/reference

 

as Jo said above, bay leaf is one that does well coming out with oil. 

for example doing chili with diced beef or ground beef I always put the bay in while the beef is rendering its fat -

 

@MokaPot - bay is a very subtle flavor.  you'll likely not notice it until it's 'over done' - and too much can be objectionable....

did a dish recently, forgot the bay leaf.... DW opined it wasn't as good as she remembered.  when I did a left over reheat, added a couple bay leaves and it improved by magic.....

[MokaPot]

39 minutes ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

I use the Turkish bay leaves from Penzeys.  I have been pleased with them.  The volatiles of bay leaf are almost insoluble in water.  Did you have a fair amount of fat in your soup to extract the flavor?

 

Can you describe the "bay leaf flavor" you were expecting and not finding?  McGee describes bay leaf component smells as "camphor, lavender, pine, woody".  Could you be expecting the flavor of California bay leaf, which is a different genus?  McGee describes California bay leaf smells as "fresh-harsh, medicinal, woody, pine".

 

A showcase for bay leaf is @lesliec's bay leaf ice cream.

 

 

No, not a lot of fat in my soup. I thought about dropping the bay leaves at the very beginning, along with the oil & onions, but didn't want an overpowering bay leaf flavor. Next time, I'll drop the leaves in with the oil & onions. Thank you for the idea!

 

Good point about California vs. Turkish. I wasn't expecting the Turkish bay leaves to be like the California ones.

 

When I visited Muir Woods (northern California), there were tons of bay trees / leaves there. IIRC, smelled like eucalyptus. Supposedly, the Turkish are supposed to be better than the CA, so that's why I got them.

 

[Katie Meadow]

CA Bay Laurel is harsher. Turkish are better. I think most all dried bay leaves from spice stores are Turkish, no? 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

5 minutes ago, Katie Meadow said:

CA Bay Laurel is harsher. Turkish are better. I think most all dried bay leaves from spice stores are Turkish, no? 

 

I believe so.  The fresh leaves I've purchased did not taste good.  I now only buy dried.

 

[Elkyfr]

I used dried bay in only 1 recipe in my live... and this the most popular food in my town, a tuna stew with potatoes and laurel.

[haresfur]

I have a vague recollection of someone on the forum claiming that dried leaves tasted stronger than fresh. Or maybe I was dreaming. I think the flavour is a bit different, not just stronger/weaker. The dried ones I have now are similar to the fresh because they came from the same tree and I just air-dried them and they still look pretty green compared to the ones you buy. In any case I tend to use more fresh in a dish.