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Mac and Cheese: Defining and Pushing its Boundaries

shain

By shain
in Cooking

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TdeV

TdeV

Posted
Posted

Looks delicious, Shai. I have a new rice cooker and  I'm wondering about a mac and cheese permutation . . .

BeeZee

BeeZee

Posted
Posted

For me, "mac and cheese" conjures the image of macaroni (or a short pasta) with a (primarily, but not exclusively) cheddar-based sauce. I'd bet that those who are from Southern states in the U.S., where mac and cheese are staples, will agree that certain expectations come with using that name for a dish, rather than "pasta with a cheese sauce", which leaves open the many creative possibilities which are also delicious (cacio e pepe, Alfredo, Lockshen mit Kaese, and others).

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"Only dull people are brilliant at breakfast" - Oscar Wilde

Annie_H

Annie_H

Posted
Posted

I knew immediately what was meant by the description. I can't get squirrely over culinary 'rules'. Even the Annie's kids boxes, (or adult comfort food), has one that is titled 'shells and white cheddar Mac and cheese'. I've never purchased the elbow shape most seem to think is proper. Too small. I use a larger shape and call it 'Adult Mac and Cheese'. Better cheeses, vegetables and merguez, anchovies, Korean chili flake. 

I visualize more of a preparation Mac and cheese, not necessarily the southern staple.

I just googled 'spaghetti Mac and cheese'. 

This is a cooking forum, not needlepoint or tap-dance. Should be able to think a bit out-side the box. 

FDA regulations require 'enriched macaroni product' on packaging. Some think it should be changed to 'pasta' to reflect a more common usage. 

 

 

Screen Shot 2023-05-03 at 10.22.26 AM.png

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Tropicalsenior

Tropicalsenior

Posted
Posted
On 5/1/2023 at 3:27 PM, shain said:

Mac and cheese

Seems perfectly logical to me to make mac and cheese out of any smooth type of pasta. Whenever I don't have macaroni I grab for whatever is available. To me, the star of the show is the sauce not the pasta.

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shain

shain

Posted
  • Topic Starter
Posted
1 hour ago, BeeZee said:

For me, "mac and cheese" conjures the image of macaroni (or a short pasta) with a (primarily, but not exclusively) cheddar-based sauce. I'd bet that those who are from Southern states in the U.S., where mac and cheese are staples, will agree that certain expectations come with using that name for a dish, rather than "pasta with a cheese sauce", which leaves open the many creative possibilities which are also delicious (cacio e pepe, Alfredo, Lockshen mit Kaese, and others).

 

I would say that for me, mac and cheese indeed implies a shape of pasta, but much more, it implies a specific kind of cheese sauce - one made of a somewhat sharp cheese such as cheddar, is on the rich side, and often made with a roux base.

 

It is likely so because "mac and cheese" is a term I'll use  untranslated to Hebrew, and so is distinct to me from just any pasta with cheese.

Think of "shrimp scampi" which makes little sense to an Italian speaker, but perfect sense to Americans. 

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~ Shai N.

heidih

heidih

Posted
Posted (edited)
49 minutes ago, Annie_H said:

I knew immediately what was meant by the description. I can't get squirrely over culinary 'rules'. Even the Annie's kids boxes, (or adult comfort food), has one that is titled 'shells and white cheddar Mac and cheese'. I've never purchased the elbow shape most seem to think is proper. Too small. I use a larger shape and call it 'Adult Mac and Cheese'. Better cheeses, vegetables and merguez, anchovies, Korean chili flake. 

I visualize more of a preparation Mac and cheese, not necessarily the southern staple.

I just googled 'spaghetti Mac and cheese'. 

This is a cooking forum, not needlepoint or tap-dance. Should be able to think a bit out-side the box. 

FDA regulations require 'enriched macaroni product' on packaging. Some think it should be changed to 'pasta' to reflect a more common usage. 

 

 

Screen Shot 2023-05-03 at 10.22.26 AM.png

As a kid I thought macaroni was noodles. My stepmother who is native German and French speaker thinks pasta = macaroni - interchangeable.. And now I have the silly lyrics of Yankee Doodle in my head! And of course the "luxury" fad for a while - lobster mac n' cheese. I usually saw it with shells. In the US I think Kraft for many made the blue box the standard meaning of mac n' cheese. 

 

Edited by heidih (log)
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haresfur

haresfur

Posted
Posted

We nearly always make mac and cheese with spirals but sometimes bowties or whatever. And typically with smoked salmon. And Colby cheese.

 

Hoity-toity Rockpool restaurant in Melbourne uses some sort of rich smoky bacon-adjacent porky meat in theirs.

 

Gochujang and peanuts sounds delicious.

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It's almost never bad to feed someone.

AlaMoi

AlaMoi

Posted
Posted

uhmmm, not trying to encourage flame wars, but comma however . . .and similar . . .

the "mac" in "mac and cheese" represents "macaroni" - that is a generally accepted pasta shape/type...

 

done a cheese sauce with elbows, spirals, bow ties, penne, ziti, rotini,  . . .

all veddy good stuff - but not "mac&cheese" - more: "paste & cheese sauce"

which is on my fork, , ,  is nadda problem . . .

blue_dolphin

blue_dolphin

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, AlaMoi said:

the "mac" in "mac and cheese" represents "macaroni" - that is a generally accepted pasta shape/type...

 

By my read of the title of the topic, we are being invited to define that "generally accepted pasta shape/type" and perhaps to push the boundaries so please do share your definition and the boundaries you draw!  From what you said, the shape is not: 

Quote

elbows, spirals, bow ties, penne, ziti, rotini,  . . .all veddy good stuff - but not "mac&cheese" 

 

So what pasta shape is mac & cheese for @AlaMoi?

 

Growing up, my mom usually made what she called mac & cheese with elbows. Though other shapes often stood in so I've never defined the dish strictly by the pasta shape. She also added tomato. She may have called it tomato mac & cheese. I don't remember.  I do remember that it was baked with breadcrumbs and Parm forming a crispy crust on top.

 

My personal favorite uses any chunky pasta shape and begins with setting a large bowl over the pot of water as the pasta cooks to warm a thinly sliced clove of garlic, a bit of butter and some crumbled Gorgonzola.  Once the pasta is ready, scoop it out and toss it and the water that clings to it with the contents of the bowl. Add a grind of black pepper and enjoy!

gfweb

gfweb

Posted
Posted

Some time ago I made a mac and cheese "arrancini".  I think I posted in on here a decade or so ago but I cannot find it.

 

Tasty it was

 

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AlaMoi

AlaMoi

Posted
Posted

check the definition of macaroni . . .

it is a definition equally as defined as bow-ties, spiral, penne, ziti, rotini, etc, etc, etc.

 

my mac&cheese does actual include the tomato issue. . .

DSC_4059.thumb.JPG.546d41a5453bc999535607f0ca430355.JPG

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rotuts

rotuts

Posted
Posted

@AlaMoi 

 

Im hoping you might share your Rx.

 

hopefully I have similar pan

 

and it will fit in the CSO

 

love the maillard - ey cheese

 

and the tomato slices on the top !

 

looks like a scoop would have several layers of Creamy.

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blue_dolphin

blue_dolphin

Posted
Posted (edited)
47 minutes ago, AlaMoi said:

check the definition of macaroni . . .

it is a definition equally as defined as bow-ties, spiral, penne, ziti, rotini, etc, etc, etc.

 

my mac&cheese does actual include the tomato issue. . .

DSC_4059.thumb.JPG.546d41a5453bc999535607f0ca430355.JPG

Curiously, I can’t see any macaroni visible in that photo!  
I did look it up though. 
a variety of pasta formed in narrow tubes.

Sounds like bucatini? Maybe penne?  


 

Edited by blue_dolphin (log)
C. sapidus

C. sapidus

Posted
Posted (edited)

Son is from Russia. When he came home at 6 yo (speaking no English) we asked if he wanted pasta for dinner. He looked horrified. We later learned that "pasta" meant toothpaste. :laugh: What we call pasta is "macaroni."

 

From that perspective, any kind of pasta can be used in mac & cheese. :rolleyes:

 

I was never a big mac & cheese fan until I had some at a wedding reception in South Carolina. Holy crackers that was good. I have been chasing the dragon ever since.

 

Mac & cheese with gochujang sounds delicious.

Edited by C. sapidus (log)
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Bruce, a.k.a C. sapidus

eG Foodblog: Crabs, borscht, and fish sauce

gfweb

gfweb

Posted
Posted

Old American Italians of my acquaintance call any type of pasta macaroni, as @weinoosays. 

 

I'm not a fan of Mac and Cheese in general.  The Blue Box stuff is vile.  Most home versions have a sauce that gets granular or breaks. Some are served as a brick of noodles in ossified cheese. All are yuck.

 

But occasionally there is one with a well-constructed cheese sauce that doesn't seize up as it cools and actually tastes good.

 

Re additions...lobster and cheese is a big no....jalapeno or hot sauce or sun dried (or roasted) tomatoes are nice

haresfur

haresfur

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, gfweb said:

Old American Italians of my acquaintance call any type of pasta macaroni, as @weinoosays. 

 

I'm not a fan of Mac and Cheese in general.  The Blue Box stuff is vile.  Most home versions have a sauce that gets granular or breaks. Some are served as a brick of noodles in ossified cheese. All are yuck.

 

But occasionally there is one with a well-constructed cheese sauce that doesn't seize up as it cools and actually tastes good.

 

Re additions...lobster and cheese is a big no....jalapeno or hot sauce or sun dried (or roasted) tomatoes are nice

 

There are ways to keep roux-based mac and cheese creamy. The most important ones imo are to keep the sauce from being too hot when mixing in the cheese and using mustard as an emulsifier. I use Dijon for the flavour but others use Coleman's powder. The trick to dispersing the mustard in the sauce is to add it to the roux before you add the milk.

 

Lobster and cheese sounds good to me.

It's almost never bad to feed someone.

Margaret Pilgrim

Margaret Pilgrim

Posted
Posted
21 minutes ago, gfweb said:

Most home versions have a sauce that gets granular or breaks.

Use a strong natural cheddar in your cheese sauce and ADD A SPOON OF VINEGAR which will not add to flavor but will keep the cheese from seizing.    Enjoy.

eGullet member #80.

liuzhou

liuzhou

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, blue_dolphin said:

my mom usually made what she called mac & cheese with elbows.

 

Quote

Elbow macaroni is an American term for short, curved macaroni.

 

The Oxford Companion to Food

 

...your dancing child with his Chinese suit.

 

"No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot"
Mark Twain
 

The Kitchen Scale Manifesto

Katie Meadow

Katie Meadow

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Margaret Pilgrim said:

Use a strong natural cheddar in your cheese sauce and ADD A SPOON OF VINEGAR which will not add to flavor but will keep the cheese from seizing.    Enjoy.

I'm going to try the vinegar next time around and see what happens.

 

I did not grow up eating mac n cheese. Once in a while there was noodle kugel at someone else's house, which was typically made far too sweet and, god forbid, often contained raisins.  But I discovered mac n cheese when I moved to New Mexico where it was impossible not to garnish it with roasted hatch chiles. Now that's one of my top five comfort foods.

 

When my daughter was young she had no problem letting me know that the boxed stuff was superior to my homemade. She's changed her tune now. There's a BBQ place near her in Atlanta that makes a sinful swoon worthy version that is rigatoni in, essentially, cream. It's unlike most all unappetizing mac n cheese you find served in a rib joint. 

 

 

gfweb

gfweb

Posted
Posted

Kenji Lopez has several M&C recipes.  One uses condensed milk, comes together quickly and stays creamy/smooth.  When M&C is requested, its the one I make

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kayb

kayb

Posted
Posted
On 5/3/2023 at 7:38 PM, gfweb said:

Old American Italians of my acquaintance call any type of pasta macaroni, as @weinoosays. 

 

I'm not a fan of Mac and Cheese in general.  The Blue Box stuff is vile.  Most home versions have a sauce that gets granular or breaks. Some are served as a brick of noodles in ossified cheese. All are yuck.

 

But occasionally there is one with a well-constructed cheese sauce that doesn't seize up as it cools and actually tastes good.

 

Re additions...lobster and cheese is a big no....jalapeno or hot sauce or sun dried (or roasted) tomatoes are nice


I make mine as follows: cook and drain a pound of pasta. Toss in 3-4 tbsp butter, 8 oz of cubed Velveeta (one of the two acceptable uses for Velveeta, the other being cheese dip), 8 oz grated sharp cheddar, and enough half and half to make it as liquid as you like. Return to low heat, cover and heat, stirring occasionally, until cheese melts. The Velveeta (and all its chemical additives) keeps it creamy.

 

On 5/4/2023 at 11:51 AM, gfweb said:

Kenji Lopez has several M&C recipes.  One uses condensed milk, comes together quickly and stays creamy/smooth.  When M&C is requested, its the one I make

 

Condensed milk? I’ve never seen condensed milk that wasn’t sweetened. Do you maybe mean evaporated milk?

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heidih

heidih

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, kayb said:

Condensed milk? I’ve never seen condensed milk that wasn’t sweetened. Do you maybe mean evaporated milk?

Technically evaporated milk is "condensed" and the sweet one has sweetened on label - but yes a recipe should say evaporated to avoid a yucky result ;)

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