Jump to content
  • Welcome to the eG Forums, a service of the eGullet Society for Culinary Arts & Letters. The Society is a 501(c)3 not-for-profit organization dedicated to the advancement of the culinary arts. These advertising-free forums are provided free of charge through donations from Society members. Anyone may read the forums, but to post you must create an account.

FrogPrincesse

What Are You Cooking Sous Vide Today? (Part 3)

Recommended Posts

I still haven't had time to peruse the net a lot...but I swear TONS of people like their venison at 24 hours in the 130F -135F range.  I just saw one where they went for 48 hours.

 

I have another roast to do...I'm at a loss where to start.  Maybe I should look at beef roast SV times and see.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@ShelbyIs it possible that there was something wrong with the roast prior to brining/SV?  Maybe some kind of bacteria that just went crazy at those temps?  Many years ago, on the early SV threads, people talked about doing some meat for a long time and complained that it smelled really bad when taken out of the bath.  At the time, the feeling was that for anything that goes long term, the outside should be given a brief high temp application first - to kill any surface bacteria that could cause problems.  Some people would torch the outside prior to bagging, others would submerge the bag in boiling water for 20-30 seconds just after bagging but before SV...

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, KennethT said:

@ShelbyIs it possible that there was something wrong with the roast prior to brining/SV?  Maybe some kind of bacteria that just went crazy at those temps?  Many years ago, on the early SV threads, people talked about doing some meat for a long time and complained that it smelled really bad when taken out of the bath.  At the time, the feeling was that for anything that goes long term, the outside should be given a brief high temp application first - to kill any surface bacteria that could cause problems.  Some people would torch the outside prior to bagging, others would submerge the bag in boiling water for 20-30 seconds just after bagging but before SV...

Well, I guess it could be....but it didn't smell bad at all.  It smelled like a nice roast--even after it was cooked.  

 

I'm going to try again tomorrow and do it for much less time....we will see how it goes.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, rotuts said:

Sirloin flap meet , generally sold as sirloin tips

 

pic you done-ness , then 6 hr or so.  8 if you like 130.1 F

 

No sirloin tips to be seen, chuck steak was on sale.  I may just seethe and fry the beef as the recipe suggests.  After a bit of googling it seems to be a common technique for Georgian stews.  Or, since I have a lot of chuck, I may just cut the piece in half and anova some.

 

One recipe I found called for reserving the meat after stir frying and then adding it at the end, with the stew off the heat.  That might work well for tenderloin.  But I compared the price of tenderloin to the price chuck.  Did I mention chuck was on sale?

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@ Jo  -  I frequently do tough cuts and some not so tough cuts for the old folks home, 24 hrs @ 141F.  (Tenderness is paramount)  Gets very tender but not falling apart.  Would think it would work well with Chuck.  From the bath I then go to stir fry, stew, pot roast, sliced roast beast, etc.  I can't cook at a  lower temp but you could and results would be same.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Shelby   I have a nice doe in the freezer and for the first time I've cut a couple roasts off.  (Normally I take out the loins and turn the rest to sausage)   So I'm following your results closely.    I had planned a dry rub of s&p and then 8 - 12 hrs in a 131F bath.    Keep posting, between us we may get there.

 

Edit:  Wonder what part the onions in the bag played in this,  did they help evoke memories of liver and onions?   Don't think I've ever put onions in the bag before.  Just a thot.


Edited by daveb (log)
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, daveb said:

@ Jo  -  I frequently do tough cuts and some not so tough cuts for the old folks home, 24 hrs @ 141F.  (Tenderness is paramount)  Gets very tender but not falling apart.  Would think it would work well with Chuck.  From the bath I then go to stir fry, stew, pot roast, sliced roast beast, etc.  I can't cook at a  lower temp but you could and results would be same.

 

Thanks!  I did not feel up to dealing with the chuck today, so it is still in the refrigerator.  Do you cook the chuck as one piece and then cut it up, or do you cut up first and then sous vide?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I typically SV whole, sear the piece in a 500F oven, then cut it per application.

 

Got a bottom round in right now for Sat dinner.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, daveb said:

@Shelby   I have a nice doe in the freezer and for the first time I've cut a couple roasts off.  (Normally I take out the loins and turn the rest to sausage)   So I'm following your results closely.    I had planned a dry rub of s&p and then 8 - 12 hrs in a 131F bath.    Keep posting, between us we may get there.

 

Edit:  Wonder what part the onions in the bag played in this,  did they help evoke memories of liver and onions?   Don't think I've ever put onions in the bag before.  Just a thot.

 

You know, I hadn't thought about it, but I don't think the onions in there did a damn thing lol.  I didn't put them in this time.  It's not done yet---I started the roast at 2 pm yesterday and let it go until 6 pm at 130F.  It wasn't even close to being done, but I pulled it because I didn't want to have to stay up or set an alarm.  I may finish it in the oven......  Or I may put it back in the bath.  I'm going to test a little piece as see what I think.  I will keep you updated and I look forward to your results.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, so I'm kind of pleased with the results.
 

 I took the roast out of the fridge yesterday afternoon and stared at it for a while.

 

 I decided to get my cast iron skillet blindingly hot and throw a thin sliced piece of meat on there and see what happened (remember my end-goal was roast venison sandwiches).
 

 I liked it.  Nice and tender.  SV'd 4 hours at 130F made it tender, but definitely not done enough if you were eating it like a traditional roast.

 

 I seared each piece of roast on all sides in the skillet.  Then I sliced it very thinly and quickly seared the slices in the skillet.

 

Definitely think that the brining and the long cook caused the awful texture/taste in the first roast.   

 

 

Now, I am no help in the traditional roast department, I know.  I am very much looking forward to seeing how @daveb's roast turns out.

 

IMG_4068.jpg.4482fc4634dcf7cea40e2c333a2c20b8.jpg

IMG_4069.jpg.8872ff42af00e7f8a55d18626078dd86.jpg

 

(the sauce is copy-cat Arby's sauce)  See the finished version on the dinner thread.


Edited by Shelby (log)
  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Chefsteps recipe (https://www.chefsteps.com/activities/tender-juicy-sous-vide-lamb-chops) was my guide for these Bone-in Lamb Loin Chops

 

F1F598F7-F4B4-4BAC-B1CA-EF7070474D9B.thumb.jpeg.38c70e3d2e5c28beec22c8fdefa5904d.jpeg

 

I did the following: froze the chops for 30 minutes, then seasoned with salt and pepper

 

A8576173-EC4E-4FE2-B280-B14C16EFF55F.thumb.jpeg.47f7ca85490c62eac2c66caa0da0e0ef.jpeg

 

and preseared, toasting the aromatics (rosemary and garlic),

 

B71DB944-F3F4-46A0-B8DA-E46C3589D8D8.thumb.jpeg.0b220280c2ceb09a41540d9498de630e.jpeg

 

DF887E39-7968-41EC-8EBF-A135DF3EBA7A.thumb.jpeg.c900e168d9d655990d34782f98ca8684.jpeg

 

985398C0-948C-47FC-8512-EFF9C8F73BEA.thumb.jpeg.580628a7583857da751959ce98069f96.jpeg

 

bagged the chops with additional olive oil and the aromatics,

 

C9756FC6-5FBE-48EE-A424-C850B1F457BA.thumb.jpeg.c739178598cea054a33be533b6be715b.jpeg

 

used my Anova at 138F for 1 hour and 45 minutes,

 

6749724D-BD15-417C-B97D-ED13AD7BB56B.thumb.jpeg.abf188125d9e282cb1ccd340d906018d.jpeg

 

did a final sear on the chops after patting dry, 

 

31252113-8A96-4678-AEC2-064087ADF1AF.thumb.jpeg.5a96e4b3f50387a4ad470de1b0af7b95.jpeg

 

8D6F6BA7-3C70-48A9-A982-1024477D9425.thumb.jpeg.1a4dcd465e6fc5e8b84a04e9e1fd45e1.jpeg

 

and served with a pan sauce and green beans.

 

176BAB09-594D-4647-9A8C-4974CFE78AB7.thumb.jpeg.8ddd005aef0e22cb88f410b1e070187e.jpeg

 


Edited by robirdstx (log)
  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cooks Illustrated discusses SV at some length in the March/April issue. 

Nice!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎2‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 10:30 PM, daveb said:

I typically SV whole, sear the piece in a 500F oven, then cut it per application.

 

Got a bottom round in right now for Sat dinner.

 

I cut the chuck in two and anovaed 24 hours at 55 deg.  The bags are in the ice bath now.  We shall see.  As I recall the last time I did chuck sous vide the meat was a bit mealy textured.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I finally nailed duck breasts, on my fourth attempt. In the past I got the meat just right but was unable to get the last of the rubberiness out of the skin. The trick was to cryosear, before sous vide cooking, and to crisp up the skin side with fairly low heat for a full 25 minutes. This not just renders the fat, but renders the collagen in the skin to gelatin, which takes time. Pre-freezing the breast, with the skin side flattened against a sheet pan, keeps the meat from cooking during this step. After cooking SV (2 hours at 56°C) I dried off the breasts with paper towels and re-seared on a very hot pan, to crisp up the skin side and put a bit of color on the top side. 

 

I did a couple of other prep steps, including air-drying and salt-drying, and scoring the skin, but the above steps are the important ones. The skin was like crisp but delicate bacon. The meat was nicely cooked with no gradient.

 

Not sure what kind of duck I used. It was a whole duck from Long Island purchased in chinatown. Breasts were smaller than what would be ideal for this. Larger breasts would be more satisfying and also a bit less demanding.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@paulraphael

 

I remember Boil-N-Bag !

 

I can't say I ever used them

 

I don't think that was that long ago

 

I can't find a Google answer

 

here are some BIB:

 

BIB.thumb.jpg.a139b4d1e1b68370d018324a843db540.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@paulraphael

 

would you expand on this :

 

"" The trick was to cryosear, before sous vide cooking, and to crisp up the skin side with fairly low heat for a full 25 minutes. "

 

I think I get the point 

 

but well  ....

 

BTW    do you remove the two tendons on the breast meat ?

 

I can't say it maters as I have not done DB's in a long while

 

when I did I used

 

Madeline Kamman's method :

 

score the skin ,   hot pan skin down until just brown

 

flip , pace in an over , the temp of which determines when to take out for rare meat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes. That technique works; about half as well as Sous Vide. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/11/2018 at 12:40 PM, rotuts said:

@paulraphael

 

would you expand on this :

 

"" The trick was to cryosear, before sous vide cooking, and to crisp up the skin side with fairly low heat for a full 25 minutes. "

 

I think I get the point 

 

but well  ....

 

BTW    do you remove the two tendons on the breast meat ?

 

 

I butchered the duck just like a chicken ... if there are tendons I should be aware of, they escaped notice, both while cooking and while eating. Where are the ones you're thinking of?

 

"Cryosear" is a Mhyrvold/MC cookbook term as far as I can tell. The idea is that frozen or partially frozen meat takes so much energy to thaw that it lets you sear the thick, fatty skin of a duck for a long time before worrying about cooking the underlying meat. I find that one or two hours in the freezer, pressed skinside-down on a sheet pan does the trick. That last detail is important; you need it to sit flat in the pan. 

 

I plop the frozen breasts on a dry pan without any preheating, and turn the flame on fairly low. I'm not sure how hot the pan gets, but the key is that you want to hear it sizzling steadily but not aggressively. If starts to sound loud and hot, turn it down. After 20 minutes I start checking the underside to how brown it's getting. The goal is to brown it all the way, because the post-sear will be brief. You also want plenty of time to tenderize the collagen. 

 

You'll render a goodly amount of duck fat to save for other things. You should also have some browned pan drippings if you want to get to work on a pan sauce while the bird's in the bath.

 

Before the freezing step you want to score the fat. Either use a knife (make a fine crosshatch pattern over the whole surface of the skin), a jackard tenderizer (no need to penetrate deeper than the skin and fat) or do it the MC way and use a wire dog / cat brush (maybe get one just for this). This helps render the fat and speeds any air-drying.

 

Optional steps before freezing:

1) air dry in the fridge. Loosely cover with paper towels and let chill a couple of hours to overnight

2) salt dry. after air drying, hold in the fridge skinside-down on a bed of coarse salt, for a maximum of one hour. brush off the salt as well as possible before freezing.

 

Both these steps help concentrate flavors and may improve the crispness of the skin.

 

After SV, dry off the breasts and post-sear in a small amount of neutral, high heat oil in a hot pan. This is to crisp up the skin after it's gotten soggy in the waterbath. Takes no more than a minute. I also like to flib the breat and put a bit of color on the bottom side, in case anyone peeks under there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Duck confit just went in the bath. I'll give it probably 12 hours (or until I get to it in the morning). More details on duck confit thread when I get photos edited.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Similar Content

    • By Tempranillo
      I have been tasked with putting together a team for a new kosher barbecue event in Arizona, happening sometime later this year. The event was supposed to be in mid-April, but the venue decided to cancel. The organizers are busy looking for a new venue, and have assured us that this will happen.
       
      Many details for the event are not quite settled yet, so, I am trying to prepare for all sorts of contingencies beyond the usual concerns about putting out good food. What is known is that we will be following the KCBS kosher rules. As far as I can tell, there were 10-12 such events held last year across the US. So, it's a pretty small world. I don't think there's a kosher championship ladder like the other barbecue events have, either. I think it's a good time to get in, get practice and see where it takes me.
       
      Now, I've been reading and watching videos online with all sorts of info on smoking/cooking for competitions. I have watched some of the TV shows, and one documentary. It's been kind of a mixed bag in terms of usefulness. No one has posted much about kosher barbecue, so I am making changes to recipes and procedures and running a lot of tests. I currently have access to my home kitchen which is small but adequate, the stove is electric and unremarkable and about 7 years old. It does maintain temperature well, and can be set to run anywhere from 140°F to 550°F.  I also have access to an outdoor kitchen at a friend's place, with a relatively large charcoal type grill. At most of the kosher barbecue events the event organizers provide smokers/grills plus meats and many ingredients to ensure that everything is truly kosher. If needed, my team sponsor is prepared to purchase a grill/smoker which I will need to research once I know I will need it.
       
      I should note that I am not Jewish and did not grow up around any kosher households, so I am also studying some of the finer points about running a kosher kitchen and learning about kosher ingredients. Modern competition barbecue is an odd mix of modernist techniques and ingredients, right alongside ordinary-folk foods like margarine, and bottled sauces.
       
      For reference, the 4 categories for kosher events are: Chicken, Beef Ribs, Turkey, and Beef Brisket -to be served in that order.
       
      So far, I have been running smokeless tests on chicken and beef ribs. Mostly learning to trim the chicken thighs (what a nightmare!) and seeing what happens at certain temperatures and times. I know things will be different with real smoking happening, but I want to see some baseline results so that I know what to strive for. I do have a bunch of thermometers, and have got some basic ideas about writing a competition timeline.
       
      The chicken perplexes me in several ways. First, some of the competition cooks recommend boning while others recommend bone-in. Second, I see some folks injecting and brining, while others maybe do a quick half hour marinade, and even others are full-on modernist with citric acid under the skin, etc. Third, the braise vs non- braise chicken where some people load up their pan with a pound of butter, margarine or a couple cups of chicken stock while others do not. Fourth, The bite-through skin is driving me insane. Some people swear by transglutaminase to reattach the skin for a better bite. Catch is, only some types are kosher, and I can see having issues explaining it. I have tested an egg white egg wash which seems to attach the skin pretty well without showing. I think I need to go for longer times to get more tender skin. Today I did a pan (with olive oil) of six as follows: one hour at 220°, one hour under foil at 230°, then glazed and 20 minutes on a rack at 350°. It was only partly bite-though and the taste-testers wanted more crispiness. I tried showing them pictures and explained that it wasn't ever going to be crispy, that we're looking to go even softer. I am going to run tests on longer cook periods and see how it goes.
       
      I want to ask people about the whole swimming in margarine thing which is in voque right now. people claim it makes the chicken juicy. I know that meat is mostly all about temperatures. I can see how the margarine acts like duck fat in a confit and helps prevent some oven-drying after hours and hours in the oven, but, in the end, isn't it just an insulator?
       
      I've been making corned beef and other brisket dishes for over 20 years, so, I think I have a good handle on that. I will practice it in a couple of weeks. I simply don't need as much help on this item.
       
      The turkey scares me. On TV, I see people dunking it in butter before serving it. This obviously is not kosher, and I don't want to do it with margarine I don't want to present anything in a competition made with margarine, there has to be something better! -Either cook the bird better or find a better dip, like maybe a flavorful nut oil or a sauce. That said, unlike ribs or brisket, it is not traditional to dunk turkey in a sauce.  I went with some friends to a chain place called Dickies to do a little research and their turkey breast was odd and kind of hammy. Not like Virginia ham, more like ham lunchmeat. It was very moist and unlike any turkey I have ever eaten. Ok, I admit to not being very fond of turkey, so my experiences with it have been a bit limited. I am assuming it was brined. Given the limited amount of time we will have (about a day and a half) to cook, I am planning on just cooking the breast. Other than that, I am open to suggestions. The internet has been least informative on the topic of turkey. People's videos and such just show rubbing the whole bird and letting it roast for a few hours. Any tips at all would be appreciated.
       
      Whew! Thanks for reading all of this, I look forward to any advice you can give.
    • By flippant
      I've had the CSO for a number of years now, but have yet to actually bake bread in it.
       
      Reading through the Modernist Bread thread on this forum I see many of you are using the CSO to great effect, which is heartening.
       
      To that end, I would like to know about your experience baking bread in it – what sort of extra equipment you use (pans, cast iron? etc), what breads work the best, any corrections you find yourself making, or anything you feel might be useful to someone else using the CSO.
       
      Thank you!
       
       
    • By Rho
       
      The space race trickled into kitchens in the 60s and 70s, including one curious tool that's faded away in the years since: the thermal pin, a heat pipe skewer that can halve cooking times for roasts:

       
      Heat pipes are thermal superconductors, transferring heat 500-1000 times more effectively than solid copper (some people in the sous vide thread have discussed copper pins). They're hollow tubes with the air evacuated and a small amount of working fluid, often water. The usable temperature range is limited by the triple point and the critical point, with additional constraints near the edges. Water is effective from 20C-280C /70F-530F, which comfortably spans most cooking temperatures.
       
      Modernist Bread has an excellent section on how bread bakes, including a diagram of the internal heat pipes that develop, summarized here. (click for a good photo!)
       
      Sous-vide solves the overcooking side of the gradient problem, but it's still limited by total heat diffusion time-- doubling the size of a cut quadruples the time needed for the center to reach temperature. Heat pipe pins should make larger cuts practical, or normal cuts cook faster. Here's a graph from "The heat pipe and its potential for enhancing the cooking and cooling of meat joints", showing average temperatures over time for 1kg joints of meat convection baked at 190C/375F for 110 minutes (foil removed for the last 30 minutes):

       
      Thermal pins were sold commercially from 1956 to about 1990. They're listed occasionally for about $20 on ebay. They even made potato baking racks with heat pipes-- though now you can easily par-cook a potato in the microwave and finish it in the oven.
       
      I don't know why production of thermal pins stopped, or what fundamental problems limited their usage. It seems like pans and commercial griddles would be improved by adding heat pipes to spread heat throughout and avoid hot or cold spots. Perhaps roasts fell out of favor as the culture of entertaining shifted away from monolithic centerpieces to smaller, more precisely cooked portions.
    • By philie
      Hey there, i hope to find some help in the wise hands of yours. after some research i am still having some problems concerning glazing:
       
      For a party i would like to make some cubes and rounded savoury cakes and foams out of silicone forms that have a ready bottom and a colour glazing. 
      Somehow i just do not manage to find a steady glazing ( one that does not run ) and is for texture reasons preferably hard or crisp that does not include sugar or syrup.
       
      can you help me or lead my way in a certain direction?
       
      thanks very much!
    • By KennethT
      Is there a discussion in the book about the purpose of adding ascorbic acid?  I just saw the contest #2 in which the recipe called for it.  I'm curious because a woman I know on the internet used to work in a bakery in Vietnam, and said that to get similar results to the banh mi there, you need to add ascorbic acid.  Does it act as a gluten relaxer?  Traditional banh mi have a very tender and crisp crust, and a very light and tender, relatively closed crumb.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×