Stoves and Ovens: Wolf? Thermador? Bluestar? Viking?

[horseflesh]

8 hours ago, Barrytm said:

horseflesh,  I timed it today - it took 18 minutes for the oven light to go off when set to 350 F .  Some suggest that the oven be allowed to cycle off and on a time or two to settle in before baking, but I did not time that.  I did adjust the oven dial the other day, and when set to 350 ,  it varied from 340 to 360, which I thought was pretty good for a gas oven.    I am not a fan of the knobs - they are metal, but the attachment to the controls feels flimsy.  I much preferred the knobs on the Viking, and the ones on the Wolf look substantial too. 

 

Barry, thank you for doing that. 18 minutes isn't bad at all, and neither is that temperature swing. 

 

[weinoo]

I don't know about anyone else, but when preheating my oven, I always go for at least 45 minutes. The air temp will kick off the thermostat, but the oven internals aren't really at that same temperature you're looking for.  Especially when doing something like baking bread or making a pizza.

Edited July 2, 2018 by weinoo (log)

[Anna N]

I was having a number of baking disasters because I actually believed that when the preheat buzzer went off on my oven it had reached temperature. Not one of the units you are discussing but certainly would make me question the reliability of any signal!  Mine still had at least 50°F to go before it was the temperature I had preset. 

[weinoo]

1 hour ago, Anna N said:

I was having a number of baking disasters because I actually believed that when the preheat buzzer went off on my oven it had reached temperature. Not one of the units you are discussing but certainly would make me question the reliability of any signal!  Mine still had at least 50°F to go before it was the temperature I had preset. 

Exactly, @Anna N.  The thermostat measures the air temp in the oven, I believe, which lowers dramatically as soon as the oven is opened to put something in.  If the oven is properly preheated (the walls, the floor, the ceiling, etc.), especially if there's a pizza stone or steel in there, the drop won't be as dramatic, and it will recover a hell of a lot faster - all especially important when baking.

[SLB]

I have a Bluestar RCS (I think this was replaced by the RNB, and I suspect that this is why I got a decent deal on the range).  I love the simplicity of its function, I strongly prefer the open burners, and I love the power; but in seven years I have had to replace like three of the igniters and something major busted in the oven (not the convection fan -- the oven stopped working actually).  Also,  the upper rack is really just too close to the broiler -- I always need to use the next rack level, which is honestly just a bit too far away for true surface-cooking.   I can deal with all of this, but it seems like more hassle than one should be dealing with at that price point.    

 

Edited July 5, 2018 by SLB (log)

[gfweb]

On 6/30/2018 at 5:32 PM, horseflesh said:

I've read elsewhere that the preheat on a Bluestar RNB oven is pretty slow. I saw one poster somewhere say they won't bother using the oven on a weeknight, which sounds nuts to me. How slow is it? 

 

Has anyone gotten time on the Bluestar "Platinum" series? It lists a faster oven preheat. It also costs a heck of a lot more, but setting that aside for now...

 

 

I'd say 15 to 20 min, at most. But remember , it's a BIG FRIGGING OVEN...full sheet pan. These things take some time

[horseflesh]

15-20 is no big deal. I actually do most of my (savory) baking in a ceramic grill, so I obviously don't mind a little setup time. 

[paulraphael]

An infrared thermometer is helpful in figure out when an oven is preheated. You have to point it at multiple surfaces and guess at how to average them (surprise ... they may vary by 100°F depending one where they are in relation to the fire) but you'll get accustomed to how the surface temperatures correlate with the air temperature when the thing's fully heated. And you'll know when you hit the point where nothing's getting hotter. If there's something heavy in the oven like a dutch oven or a pizza steel, just measure that. 

[tikidoc]

We really love our Lacanche. They have several options for cooktops. We have a ‘French top” which is an 18k burner with a large solid cast iron plate over the burner, with a cutout circle in which you can put the included wok ring. With the cutout in place, it is great for things like big pots of tomato sauce or stacks. There are also several options for the other burners including one that gets very low. It comes in a 28” version, with either one oven and storage drawer or an oven and a smaller second broiler oven. We have a gas range with electric convection ovens and love it. I also like that there is minimal technology involved. No computer electronics, just excellent build quality to last a lifetime. And it comes in lots of cool colors, if that matters to you - was not part of our decision to go with this range, but I do like the look of the blue in our kitchen.

 

 

[weinoo]

Would love to see a picture of that looking down at the cooking surface!

 

I think the price of that range almost makes the Wolf/Blue Star look like a bargain, but once again, I think if you're doing a full kitchen reno, it doesn't really up the total cost by that much of a percent.  And...it's gorgeous.

[gfweb]

30 minutes ago, weinoo said:

Would love to see a picture of that looking down at the cooking surface!

 

I think the price of that range almost makes the Wolf/Blue Star look like a bargain, but once again, I think if you're doing a full kitchen reno, it doesn't really up the total cost by that much of a percent.  And...it's gorgeous.

That was our logic with the blue star.  I think it was 5k , not cheap but it isn't a POS (like our GE Profile fridge) and will last forever

[TicTac]

+1 in the Wolf camp.  This is my second Wolf range (I have the 6 burner) and love it.

 

That blue range looks very nice, wonder what the price is like compared to a Wolf....

 

And yes, Wolf knobs are a bit 'flimsy' but that's because they are removable.  Makes for very easy cleaning!  Every now and then I will swap out my Black knobs for the Red ones to spruce things up 😛

 

[tikidoc]

Weinoo...

[curls]

5 hours ago, TicTac said:

+1 in the Wolf camp.  This is my second Wolf range (I have the 6 burner) and love it.

 

That blue range looks very nice, wonder what the price is like compared to a Wolf....

 

And yes, Wolf knobs are a bit 'flimsy' but that's because they are removable.  Makes for very easy cleaning!  Every now and then I will swap out my Black knobs for the Red ones to spruce things up 😛

 

 

I'm another one in the Wolf camp and very happy with mine. It is a six burner with the gas oven (actually it is all propane -- too expensive to get natural gas to the house). It is usually decked out with stainless steel knobs (not at all flimsy) but once or twice I have swapped those out for the red knobs. Love having the ability to do a low simmer on all the burners (see @weinoo's post for photos of how the low simmer operates on the Wolf).

Edited July 8, 2018 by curls
added link to weinoo's photo post (log)

[horseflesh]

Yesterday I saw some of this stuff in person, we have a good showroom nearby. 

 

I told the sales guy what I was looking for: 30" range, gas only, reliable, with at least one high-BTU burner... "high" being negotiable... everything else open to discussion. I told him my price range was up to $6k for a range and a new hood, but obviously, didn't want to spend more than I had to. 

 

He had a strong preference for the Wolf GR304, which they did have a good price on due to one a manufacturer incentive. ($4335) It's a no-frills unit with one big burner, a convention oven, and an IR broiler. He was emphatic that Wolf was the more reliable choice among the low-end high-end. Interestingly he also thought the Wolf was easier to clean, but when I look up Wolf vs Bluestar discussions, that never seems to be the case. This Wolf also has black enamel interior, so if the blue enamel chipping problem is still a thing, I wouldn't have to worry about that. 

 

I also looked at the Bluestar RCS while I was there. The GR304 has more features than the RCS, but at least I could see the Bluestar open burners in person finally. And I have to say, I really liked the way the Bluestar was put together, and the shape of the burners, how it looks like it'd be easier to clean, AND the bigger oven. 

 

They had that Samsung with the split door too, which looked like a good value, but it's available in dual fuel only. I am not interested in adding electric service right now, so that's out. The sales guy also said that while the Samsungs are not unreliable, "if something goes wrong, good luck" getting service. 

 

As long as I am talking about this much dough, I don't think I am interested in the Bluestar RCS because I'd miss both the simmer and wok burner. Right now it feels like it's between the Wolf GR304 and the Bluestar RNB. I asked for a quote on the RNB, though I guess it's just going to be the price I see online everywhere. 

 

For hoods, I was steered to the Zephyr Typhoon, which did seem nice. It will work with my existing cabinets/ducting, it's quiet, and will move 850 CFM. I had been thinking I wanted a hood with baffles though, and the Zephyr has a different kind of grease trap. If anyone has experience with this hood I would love to know about it; the claims are very appealing. 

 

This is a tough decision!

 

[gfweb]

The open burners on BS are wonderful to clean up. 

[dscheidt]

People with bluestar: Does anyone know how hot do the sides of the range get?  I'm in the market for a range, and the way our kitchen is arranged, the left side of the range is open to the room and the doorway to the kitchen.  I'm worried someone (like my four year old) will burn themselves on it. 

[gfweb]

37 minutes ago, dscheidt said:

People with bluestar: Does anyone know how hot do the sides of the range get?  I'm in the market for a range, and the way our kitchen is arranged, the left side of the range is open to the room and the doorway to the kitchen.  I'm worried someone (like my four year old) will burn themselves on it. 

They don't get hot at all.

 

[&roid]

any more feedback from people with a wolf range/rangetop with the infra-red chargrill?  I'm just about to do our kitchen refit and would love one of these if it does a good job

[paulraphael]

On 7/11/2018 at 8:18 AM, &roid said:

any more feedback from people with a wolf range/rangetop with the infra-red chargrill?  I'm just about to do our kitchen refit and would love one of these if it does a good job

 

A good friend of mine has an older Wolf range. I believe it's from before the consumer stuff got spun off to SubZero, and I don't know if the designs have changed.

 

He had problems with the char grill failing. Presumably from getting gummed up by drippings. The second time a service guy came out to fix it, my friend asked if there was anything he could do to keep the thing working. The repairman said, "if you want to grill, go outside."

[CentralMA]

Long time lurker here, have made a few posts also.

 

Looking for info, but most of all guidance. I've been doing a remodel on a 1950's ranch here in the NorthEast. We've owned the house for almost 30 years, paid off in full, looking now to return to it and "retire". 

 

Doing most of the work myself, but just had the electrician in to update some wiring, especially the kitchen and bathroom. Recent visit from the plumber to extend the natural gas line to the kitchen.

 

We've purchased most of the appliances already, mainly Bosch. 24" fridge, 24" stacking washer/dryer, 24" dishwasher. Higher end JennAir hood over the range. There'll only be two of us living there (one if I don't get this project done soon....).

 

I've decided on BlueStar for the range. We'll need to stay in the 30" size. Their 2 offerings I've been contemplating are the Culinary series and the RNB. I'm former restaurant worker, and like the simplicity of the open burner and the lack of touch screen controls. 

 

Culinary = ~$4k

RNB = ~$5k

 

Biggest difference between the two are (Culinary) three 15,000BTU burners vs (RNB) two 15,000BTU burners and one 22,000BTU burner. Both models have the "precise simmer" burner. 

 

Does the one burner with extra BTUs = $1k?

 

I'm leaning to the RNB...higher temp for a wok, searing on iron, etc. My wife thinks I'm crazy, but she's on board with whatever we end up with.

 

I'll still be running a fridge in the basement, also will have a "rental house grade" electric range available there. We do a lot of outside cooking, it's a walkout basement, these appliances will be for convenience and the occasional bake where electric would be preferred over gas.

 

What say the experts? 

 

Attachment gives the features between the RCS (Culinary line) and the RNB.

 

 

Open Burner Gas Ranges and Stoves | Commercial Quality Ranges | BlueStar.pdf

Edited August 1, 2020 by CentralMA
Burner configurations... (log)

[gfweb]

I have a Blue Star 6 burner in the lowest price grade..culinary, I think.

 

I love it. Puts out a ton of heat. A wok ring would intensify the already hot burners.

 

The broiler is nuclear powered hot.

 

My only complaint is that the simmer is too high, even on the simmer burner. I need a eat diffuser and even then its a little hotter than I want.

 

Overall I love it

 

 

[mumkin]

I have a new 36" RCS sitting in my dining room at the moment, waiting for the kitchen remodel to wrap up. Like you, CentralMA, I couldn't discern a functional difference between the RCS and baseline RNB other than the 22K BTU burner, so decided to put that extra thousand bucks elsewhere. If it turns out I really need a 22K BTU burner, I'll replace one of the 15Ks.

 

BlueStar won't sell you a 22K burner unless you can prove you own an RNB range, but people on eBay will, as (I'm told) will some online appliance stores. The going rate seems to be about $150 (the 18K is the same burner, but you use a different orifice to upgrade it to 22k). 

Edited April 29, 2020 by mumkin
added a few links (log)

[weinoo]

Do you really need 22K for a home kitchen? What are you , incinerating a cow?

[Porthos]

Ignoring brands, I sear in cast iron pans on my 16k burner very successfully. I'm curious if to know you use a wok often enough to need the 22k?