The Food Safety and Home Kitchen Hygiene/Sanitation Topic

[boilsover]

On 10/27/2016 at 6:39 PM, Kerry Beal said:

So wiping it on my dirty apron isn't recommended?

 

No, of course not!  You must wipe it on the filthy apron, then do one, full-length pull with the sour sponge that touches everything...

 

Thermoworks is selling beaucoups of its alcohol wipes on the strength of this thread!

[dscheidt]

On 10/27/2016 at 8:36 PM, dcarch said:

I don't think you get many germs into the meat.

 

Why are we worry about the one tiny hole poked by the tiny thermometer when a lot of the meat you buy have been mechanically tenderized?

 

dcarch

 

None of the meat *I* buy is mechanically tenderized.  I doubt I'm alone in that in this crowd.

 

In the US, meat that has been mechanically tenderized now requires labeling, and instructions to cook it into oblivion-- 165F, treat your steak like it's a hamburger, for the very good reason the blades of mechanical tenderizers do indeed carry pathogens into the meat, and from piece to another.  (There are documented contamination cases, so it's not theoretical)>

[dcarch]

47 minutes ago, dscheidt said:

 

None of the meat *I* buy is mechanically tenderized.  I doubt I'm alone in that in this crowd.

 

In the US, meat that has been mechanically tenderized now requires labeling, and instructions to cook it into oblivion-- 165F, --------

 

Labeling requirement only happened since May  2015.

How many buyers of the of the 2.7 BILLION lbs of mechanical tenderized beef actually read the label and understand the special cooking needs required?

 

dcarch 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

17 minutes ago, dcarch said:

 

Labeling requirement only happened since May  2015.

How many buyers of the of the 2.7 BILLION lbs of mechanical tenderized beef actually read the label and understand the special cooking needs required?

 

dcarch 

 

I've never seen beef for sale so labeled.

 

[Lisa Shock]

What many of you are missing is cleaning the handle. Our hands are a primary source of bad bacteria. Food handlers wear gloves to protect food from contact with skin.

 

A few years ago some researchers looked at handwashing, in particular trying to determine if drying the hands with air dryers was better than paper towels. It turns out that the test subjects using the air dryers had more bacteria on their hands than the paper towel group. The reason was that while drying the hands, the air drying subjects rubbed their hands a lot which pushed oils and bacteria up from their pores. The paper towel group was touching the skin much more lightly and not bringing up as many germs. Also, air dryers had a LOT more bacteria around them, as the dryer itself sent a lot of infected water particles up into the air.

 

Anyway, we all have bad bacteria in our pores and on our skin. Handwashing reduces the amounts but cannot eliminate it. As a result, cell phones are filthy, so are computer keyboards.

 

Make up a small container of sanitizing solution, 1 teaspoon bleach to a quart of water, wet a bar mop type towel, wring it out and wipe down the handle. You can also wipe down your counters and kitchen surfaces like the fridge handle and front, the dishwasher, etc.

[dcarch]

18 minutes ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

I've never seen beef for sale so labeled.

 

 

Perhaps because I was wrong. May 2016 was the date, not 2015

 

dcarch

[scubadoo97]

I'm a soap and water kinda guy in the kitchen.  Sterilization  is rarely needed in the kitchen

 

i remember an experiment we did in a microbiology class many years ago.   A glass slide was inoculated with a given bacteria and  the slide was wiped with a dry paper tissue and cultures taken from the side and placed on an agar plate and incubated.   Very little if any growth was seen 

[chromedome]

1 hour ago, Lisa Shock said:

A few years ago some researchers looked at handwashing, in particular trying to determine if drying the hands with air dryers was better than paper towels. It turns out that the test subjects using the air dryers had more bacteria on their hands than the paper towel group. The reason was that while drying the hands, the air drying subjects rubbed their hands a lot which pushed oils and bacteria up from their pores. The paper towel group was touching the skin much more lightly and not bringing up as many germs. Also, air dryers had a LOT more bacteria around them, as the dryer itself sent a lot of infected water particles up into the air.

 

 

I read that one. There was a more recent study this year that compared blow dryers, and found that the intense blast from a Dyson Airblade hand dryer spread water particles notably farther than other models. 

 

[Thanks for the Crepes]

2 hours ago, Lisa Shock said:

Our hands are a primary source of bad bacteria. Food handlers wear gloves to protect food from contact with skin.

 

Yeah, I was real surprised when I stumbled across articles years ago about how many bacteria we are actually host to even when we're fit and healthy. This was such an alien and gross idea when it first crossed my radar, but I've pretty much resolved myself to it.

 

So I was less surprised when I poured hydrogen peroxide on my meat and veg cutting boards, and they didn't react, but when I touched it with my recently washed fingers there was a mild reaction, and a fierce one when I poured some on my kitchen sponge.

 

Most of these organisms are supposed to be essential to our survival. There's a lot of varying opinions on the matter, but I try not to let the idea paralyze me to the point where I won't be able to eat anything touched by human hands. I'd starve anyway, and we've survived as a species for a long time in our symbiotic state with the little critters. 

[dcarch]

" What many of you are missing is cleaning the handle. Our hands are a primary source of bad bacteria. Food handlers wear gloves to protect food from contact with skin.. -----"

 

Billions and billions in many cultures eat with their hands.

You are supposed to eat sushi using your hand.

How do you break bread and eat bread?

 

dcarch

 

[liuzhou]

26 minutes ago, dcarch said:

" What many of you are missing is cleaning the handle. Our hands are a primary source of bad bacteria. Food handlers wear gloves to protect food from contact with skin.. -----"

 

Billions and billions in many cultures eat with their hands.

You are supposed to eat sushi using your hand.

How do you break bread and eat bread?

 

dcarch

 

Who are these billions? Don't tell me India. Most Indian people who do use their hands (and that certainly isn't everyone) use bread (in various forms) to lift food to their mouths. They aren't sticking their fingers in the curry! China, the most populous nation on earth mostly uses chopsticks and people are highly averse to touching their food.

 

"supposed to eat sushi using your hand"? Says who? Every time I've been in a Japanese sushi place (in Japan), everyone was using chopsticks.

 

I'd say more Americans and other westerners eat with their hands. Hamburgers and other sandwiches, pizzas etc.

 

This whole hygiene business is,though, a first world concern. I have no running hot water in my kitchen and neither does anyone I know. I'm lucky that I do in my bathroom - that is unusual. Millions have no running water at all. Chances of them buying alcohol wipes or anything similar are nil.

 

They also suffer far fewer allergies. Germs can be useful.

Of course some bacteria and other pathogens can be dangerous, but they are rare. The only time I have had food poisoning in China was from eating Hagen Daaz ice cream in a western restaurant.

 

Edited October 31, 2016 by liuzhou (log)

[Lisa Shock]

30 minutes ago, dcarch said:

" What many of you are missing is cleaning the handle. Our hands are a primary source of bad bacteria. Food handlers wear gloves to protect food from contact with skin.. -----"

 

Billions and billions in many cultures eat with their hands.

You are supposed to eat sushi using your hand.

How do you break bread and eat bread?

 

dcarch

 

 

You eat your own portion. Very few cultures have one pick up food with their hands and stuff it into another person's mouth. If you live alone, it's fairly safe to not wash the handles of your utensils. (as long as you get the rotting food off) The contaminated handles will mostly just carry strains of bacteria and viruses your body is already used to.

 

One of the examples from the early 2000s' ServSafe manual, where the student is asked to guess how a patient became infected with a food borne illness was about an elderly woman with a compromised immune system being cared for by her middle-aged daughter. The older woman was bed ridden and very weak and could not feed herself. The daughter made a hamburger for her mother, very rare just like the mother wanted. She only used part of a package of meat and stored the rest in the fridge. The woman became ill a few hours later and died within 48 hours. (bet you're about to blame that burger, right? -you're wrong!) The strain of e. coli found in the deceased woman's system did not match any organisms in the hamburger meat or its packaging. There was no cross-contamination with other foods. The e. coli did match a strain the middle-aged daughter's system. She didn't always wash her hands after using the restroom. And, to feed her mother, she was breaking the food up into small pieces and placing them in the elderly woman's mouth. She had used the restroom just prior to serving the burger.

 

You have to ask yourself, how well do I know my housemates? How well do I know people who might visit and handle utensils -like my kids' friends, the sitter, my friends, service employees, repair people, etc. In the US, 50% of men, and 25% of women don't wash their hands after using the restroom. (also, one more reason to hate open concept kitchens, but, that's another rant)

Edited October 31, 2016 by Lisa Shock (log)

[gfweb]

A part of the discussion is what happens to the food after it is inoculated with bugs from a dirty thermometer. If its eaten right away, the bugs won't have had time to grow and , with a few exceptions eg Salmonella, there won't be an significant dose in the food. If the food is stored improperly and consumed later then that's a different issue.   Food storage may be a more important issue than a thermopen.

 

 

 

[Fernwood]

On 10/31/2016 at 1:51 AM, Thanks for the Crepes said:

So I was less surprised when I poured hydrogen peroxide on my meat and veg cutting boards, and they didn't react, but when I touched it with my recently washed fingers there was a mild reaction, and a fierce one when I poured some on my kitchen sponge.

 

Just to clarify the (bio)chemistry here:  The decomposition of hydrogen peroxide which produces bubbling can be catalyzed by some metals and various inorganic compounds as well as by the enzyme catalase, which is found in most tissues of most living things (animal, vegetable and bacterial).  It sounds as though your cutting boards were nice and clean but if they had bubbled, it could have been an indication of food residue, rather than bacterial contamination.  

Many pathogenic bacteria make catalase and some important ones do not.  When catalase-positive bacteria are exposed to hydrogen peroxide the bubbling means they are breaking it down (into water and oxygen) and these may actually be more resistant to its disinfectant properties than bacteria that are catalase-negative.  

Take-home message:  Hydrogen peroxide is a good disinfectant but the bubbling doesn't have much to do with that.  

[Jim D.]

I have read this thread (and the other one on cross-contamination) with interest. I am making an effort to be more aware of sanitary principles. From other sites I am aware of the forbidding of the use of sponges (in favor, I suppose, of the cloths that Lisa Shock mentioned earlier). Indeed sponges are expressly forbidden in the food handling laws of my state. Having mixed up a bleach and water solution and given up my sponges for a day in favor of a cotton cloth, I have to ask why the negative views of sponges. If I soak a sponge and a cloth in bleach water for equal amounts of time (I have read that several minutes is best), what is the difference? I very much prefer sponges, especially those with the hard plastic back that is great for stuck-on bits. I will be interested in any insights.

[boilsover]

4 hours ago, Jim D. said:

I have read this thread (and the other one on cross-contamination) with interest. I am making an effort to be more aware of sanitary principles. From other sites I am aware of the forbidding of the use of sponges (in favor, I suppose, of the cloths that Lisa Shock mentioned earlier). Indeed sponges are expressly forbidden in the food handling laws of my state. Having mixed up a bleach and water solution and given up my sponges for a day in favor of a cotton cloth, I have to ask why the negative views of sponges. If I soak a sponge and a cloth in bleach water for equal amounts of time (I have read that several minutes is best), what is the difference? I very much prefer sponges, especially those with the hard plastic back that is great for stuck-on bits. I will be interested in any insights.

 

I will await a study, but I think a soak in hydrogen peroxide, then "nuking" the sponge in the MW should suffice for home use.  Institutional use is a little hairier...

[btbyrd]

I use a pressure washer to blast any particles off the Thermapen, then soak it in bleach, and finally sterilize it in an autoclave.

[gfweb]

19 minutes ago, btbyrd said:

I use a pressure washer to blast any particles off the Thermapen, then soak it in bleach, and finally sterilize it in an autoclave.

No you don't

lol

 

Edited November 8, 2016 by gfweb (log)

[Shalmanese]

I suppose my usual practice of licking the tip until it's clean isn't approved by any of the food safety guides?

[Martin Fisher]

Y'all are mean!!!

OCD is real and you're making fun!!! 

[Kerry Beal]

1 hour ago, DiggingDogFarm said:

Y'all are mean!!!

OCD is real and you're making fun!!! 

C'mon - get with the program - it's CDO cause that's in alphabetical order!

[Anna N]

4 hours ago, Shalmanese said:

I suppose my usual practice of licking the tip until it's clean isn't approved by any of the food safety guides?

Don't see how this is better than Kerry Beal's method of wiping it on a dirty apron. YMMV

[Shelby]

4 hours ago, Shalmanese said:

I suppose my usual practice of licking the tip until it's clean isn't approved by any of the food safety guides?

Oh that's terribly unsanitary.  Everyone knows a dogs mouth is way cleaner.

[chefmd]

I am afraid to ask how everyone keeps their knives clean 

[Susie Q]

On 11/8/2016 at 7:21 AM, Shelby said:

Oh that's terribly unsanitary.  Everyone knows a dogs mouth is way cleaner.

True. For generations the dogs in my family have always licked the ice cream dasher clean after making ice cream. Seriously, but dashers were/are metal and we use bleach and boiling water as if we owned stock in Clorox and the water and gas companies.

Edited February 13, 2017 by Susie Q (log)