Home-made Pie Crust: Tips & Troubleshooting

[cyalexa]

Used the vanilla wafer and coconut crust idea. Turned out pretty well. Way too sweet for me but brother and husband liked it. 

 

[andiesenji]

Used the vanilla wafer and coconut crust idea. Turned out pretty well. Way too sweet for me but brother and husband liked it. 

 

coconut cream pie.jpg

unsweetened coconut would probably cut the sweetness considerably.

[cyalexa]

unsweetened coconut would probably cut the sweetness considerably.

I think I will buy some next time in am in OKC, to have on hand. That said, both my brother and husband have a sweet tooth and I made it for them. In fact my husband just said "Good pie Dear", as he finished a piece for breakfast. The thought of something sweet, especially that sweet, for breakfast makes me feel a little queasy!

 

I really appreciated your help with the crumb crust. It stuck to the pan slightly but was otherwise successful and certainly easier that a pastry dough, which I used last time (pic below). It seemed buttery enough when I was patting it into the pan. Do you use pan spray on your pan before this type of crust or was it the excess sugar?

 

[SylviaLovegren]

This is great- I am making a key lime pie tomorrow and I wasn't thrilled with the idea of a graham cracker crust. I'm trying out the nilla wafer crust- thanks for the idea!

 

I'm not normally wild about graham crusts either but I made a key lime pie a few days ago and had a wonderful surprise.  I used graham cracker crumbs, butter, and 1/2 cup sugar (for two crusts), then baked the crusts for 10 minutes.  Added the lime filling and baked on lower than normal heat -- about 325 -- for 40 minutes.  Somehow, the crust kind of caramelized -- it was extra crunchy and had a deep browned butter/caramelized sugar flavor that was addictive.  I don't know whether it was the pre-baking or the longer, slower final baking that did it.  Will obviously have to try to recreate this success!

[andiesenji]

I think I will buy some next time in am in OKC, to have on hand. That said, both my brother and husband have a sweet tooth and I made it for them. In fact my husband just said "Good pie Dear", as he finished a piece for breakfast. The thought of something sweet, especially that sweet, for breakfast makes me feel a little queasy!

 

I really appreciated your help with the crumb crust. It stuck to the pan slightly but was otherwise successful and certainly easier that a pastry dough, which I used last time (pic below). It seemed buttery enough when I was patting it into the pan. Do you use pan spray on your pan before this type of crust or was it the excess sugar?

 

DSC02483.JPG

I don't use pan spray.  There is enough butter in the mix to keep it from sticking, usually.  Possibly it was the sugar in the coconut caramelizing and sticking.

[Kim Shook]

I tried to make a pie crust last week.  It was the CI Vodka crust that I’ve made in the past with no problems.  It has been some time, though.  Here’s the recipe:

http://www.recipecircus.com/recipes/Kimberlyn/PASTRIES/CIs_Vodka_Pie_Crust.html

I made it EXACTLY as instructed and ended up with a gooey mess – even after refrigerating for a couple of hours.  I’ve read reviews online that talk about how wet it is and that they sometimes have to press it into the pan instead of truly rolling it out.  Mine seemed even wetter than that.  After mixing in the water and vodka there was SO much liquid in the bottom of the bowl that I resorted to working it in with my hands. 

 

So my question here is: even though there is nothing that says that you may not need all of the liquid amounts, should I have stirred half in and then proceeded to add more a trickle at a time?  

[Lisa Shock]

Many recipes do give a range for the liquid amount and tell you to add it gradually until the dough feels right. And, I'd add the vodka first. Water isn't really necessary, as vodka is about 50% water anyway. This recipe also has a really high fat ratio and it would help for the fat to be very cold or even frozen. I personally prefer mixing small amounts of pie crust in a bowl with a pastry cutter. IMO, a machine makes the fat bits too small for a really flaky crust. Also, my favorite recipe has an egg in it, but, that's a whole other issue.

[Mjx]

The link goes to a half recipe version of the original (which I'm looking at now, for comparison), and it occurred to me that if you measured the flour by volume instead of weight, you may have ended up with less than you actually need, and since this is a half recipe, the smaller starting amount would have less tolerance for error.

 

As Lisa Shock suggested, I've always added the vodka first, then cautiously added water as needed. Also, since I don't have a food processor, or a huge amount of patience, I don't get the smallest fat-saturated-flour bits as small, even though I go for the described consistency, so I think there is more free flour to take up the liquid.

[Kim Shook]

Thank you both!  I'm adding those suggestions to my recipe for next time.  And, Mjx, I do measure by weight - so that was ok.

[ThePieman]

Interesting topic. I first started off with two butter knives. The alternative at the time was to hand/fingertip rub the butter into the flour. Later I started using hand held pastry cutter with wires rather than blades, but found it tiresome when working on large dough batches. After that I move over to a coarse mesh seive, kinda like a cake rack or biscuit cooling rack, this worked exceptionally well, producing uniform pea/corn sized kernels of butter/flour mix but is was tough on the hands.After that I discovered the "Creaming Method" of making Piecrust in a four volume set of bakers books from around the 1900's, wich made using the Kitchen mixer for piecrust a boon. The only food processor I have at the moment is driven by a stick blender, and I've only used it (recently) for making small amounts of pasta dough. I find the steel blades tend to cut the dough up too much for it to form a cohesive ball. Having said that, its realy fast and dumping the dough out for half a dozen turns to knead together is not a troublesome issue. 

[David Ross]

I'm old school.  I use a hand-held pastry cutter.  It's got thick blades that cut through the butter, Crisco or lard I'm using for the pastry dough.  I don't know if it's operator error, personal preference or both, but I just don't have good luck with food processors.  For the recipe I use as my gold standard, the food processor blades work so fast it turns the butter into dust, even on a pulse of the blades. 

[chromedome]

LOL Depends what I've got at the time. 

 

I've used my hands, a fork, two knives, a big-ass floor-standing Hobart, my 80s-vintage Cuisinart, and both wire- and blade-type pastry cutters. I've used commercial and premium home-made lard, Canadian and European-style butter and even leftover chicken fat; all-purpose flour (rather high in gluten here in Canada), stoneground whole-wheat pastry flour, commercial pastry flour, regular whole-wheat flour, spelt flour and some kind of gluten-free mix I was given by a friend who decided she wasn't celiac after all (facepalm). On one occasion, on a bet, I made pie crust with room-temperature margarine and bread flour. It came out fine, though the flavor was not of the best.

 

Most of the time now I use butter, and my Cuis. I add about 2/3 of the butter and pulse until it's mealy, then add the remaining 1/3 and pulse until it's just a bit chopped. I find that's about right for a utilitarian, general-purpose dough that's easy to handle but still bakes up nicely flaky. I add the water and mix by hand, because (like most others) I find the Cuis overworks a the dough in a heartbeat once you've added water. 

 

Overall, I think Wendy DeBord nailed it upthread. Pick a tool and technique you're comfortable with, and do that until you know how the dough is supposed to feel. Once you've gotten that far, you can get to the same destination with any other tool and technique. 

[andiesenji]

My favorite "tool" to use with pie dough is my big, rolling DOCKER, which I use on the counter after rolling it out to the correct thickness and before it is cut to size - for small pies - or draped over a pie pan for blind baking. (I bake it on the OUTSIDE of pie tins the way my grandpa's cook did 80 or 90 years ago.)  Or fitted into a tart pan or ???

 

It's also very handy for docking crackers and some yeast rolls that require the application to flatten them prior to baking. 

I can't understand why everyone doesn't have one.  Poking holes in dough with a fork takes way too much time.

[Lisa Shock]

I've been fooling around with using a 10" tortilla press to press out the final product instead of rolling with a rolling pin. I found a coated aluminum handheld model that I put in the freezer, while leaving the dough a little soft. Like corn tortillas, the process is easier with plastic clingfilm. I thought of this while watching a professional pie crust press. It's been summer and I haven't been baking much, once it's a bit cooler, I will be more willing to heat up the house with more tests.

[chromedome]

3 hours ago, andiesenji said:

My favorite "tool" to use with pie dough is my big, rolling DOCKER, which I use on the counter after rolling it out to the correct thickness and before it is cut to size - for small pies - or draped over a pie pan for blind baking. (I bake it on the OUTSIDE of pie tins the way my grandpa's cook did 80 or 90 years ago.)  Or fitted into a tart pan or ???

 

It's also very handy for docking crackers and some yeast rolls that require the application to flatten them prior to baking. 

I can't understand why everyone doesn't have one.  Poking holes in dough with a fork takes way too much time.

 

 

A rolling docker is decidedly on my shortlist. Once I've found a home for the several drawers of other little gizmos still sitting out in the open, 4 1/2 months after moving into my current home.

 

I find it super-useful for puff pastry especially, on those occasions I want it crisp and flat (ie, millefeuille) rather than big and poofy. 

[Tri2Cook]

An assistant I can delegate it to.  

[andiesenji]

5 hours ago, chromedome said:

 

A rolling docker is decidedly on my shortlist. Once I've found a home for the several drawers of other little gizmos still sitting out in the open, 4 1/2 months after moving into my current home.

 

I find it super-useful for puff pastry especially, on those occasions I want it crisp and flat (ie, millefeuille) rather than big and poofy. 

I have all those "little gizmos" in plastic bags that HANG UP OUT OF THE WAY. The bags keep them clean and EASY TO FIND.  

I use shower curtain rings to hang several gadgets that are used for similar tasks.

I can't tell you how much time this has saved me since I began doing it about 15 years ago when I got rid of the drawers in my kitchen because I needed slide-out shelves for bigger items.

This bunch of bags usually hang over my baking center but I moved it around to this side so it is easier to see without all the other bags on that side.

The docker is in one bag, a large pizza wheel I use for cutting pastry is in another, a flour duster and a press crimper in with a dough bowl scraper.  I store all my mixer beaters in bags like this, one bag holds several dishers of different sizes.  Even my rolling pins are in jumbo bags, hanging out of the way but are easy to access.

[chromedome]

My late wife and I got one of those flour dusters in a grab-bag of kitchen stuff at the thrift store (I no longer remember which item in the bag was the one we actually wanted). Neither of us could identify it for the longest time, but we Googled it periodically until we found the correct answer. 

 

That was when I was away from eGullet...I can't imagine why I didn't think to pop in here with a photo and ask you!

[AlaMoi]

anyone tried reducing the fat content of pie crust to a minimum?

(it's the LDL thing....)

 

the typical old school recipes use one stick of butter (4oz) per crust....

 

I've reduced the butter in - for example - drop biscuits from 6 T to 3 T - the only effect noted is less butter dripping off the sheet and smoking up the house when it burns on the oven floor....  taste/texture seems to be unchanged at 50%

 

we enjoy homemade pot pies of every sort - so I've been looking for a way to avoid two full stick = 1/2 pound of fat/butter in a double crusted pot pie.....

 

 

 

[jimb0]

i'm mildly horrified that your biscuits leak so much butter, but that's neither here nor there. drop biscuits would definitely be the easiest ones to reduce fat in, imo, so a good choice.

 

what's your original recipe for pie dough, out of curiosity? i always stick to the standard 3:2:1 flour:butter:water, with a pinch of salt. 

 

personally without using some high-tech food replacements, i don't think you can really lower the amount of butter in a pie dough and still have something that tastes / eats like pie dough. it can still be good, no doubt! but it's not going to be like a classic pie crust. so one options is to just cut the butter and be okay with a breadier pie crust.

 

i think you have two good options, though. one is to use less dough. that's not quite what you want, i know, but you can instead use the dough to really good effect. like, instead of doing two big crusts for a pot pie, make your filling as a stew, which is 90% of the pot pie experience. then serve it with individual and separately baked rounds of pie crust, allowing you to enjoy the buttery, rich pie crust either on its own or with the stew.

 

the other option would be to consider something like a phyllo dough, which won't be rich and buttery, but might get you the crunch you're looking for in a good pie crust.

 

 

 

[AlaMoi]

well, 3:2:1....52 g

in cups, 3 cups flour+2 cups butter+1 cup water.

 

KA AP flour they list as 120g

butter comes in a 8 ounces/cup = 226g

 

so -

360 g flour

452 g butter

~250 g water

 

I've never ever used 1 cup of water = 70% hydration - for a pie crust. 

so something is seriously misunderstood here.

 

for top&bottom i.e. two crusts - my classic is 3 c flour + 2 sticks/8 ounces butter = water as needed - which is done in tablespoons, not cups.

it's half the butter of the 3:2:1 ratio.

 

I have indeed considered simply rolling the pie dough thin thin thin and using 50% - ie one crust amount for both top & bottom.

the other option I'm leaning toward is:  no bottom crust, just a top crust.

 

using water/vodka/pixie milk.... I'm open to any ideas....

I'm also willing to sacrifice the pretty browning for a functional good tasting crust.

I suspect a zero fat crust could be 'brushed' with melted butter and 'look the same'

 

[AAQuesada]

3:2:1 by weight 
 

INGREDIENTS

• 12 ounces All purpose flour about 2-3/4 cups 
• 1 tsp Salt
• 2 Tbsp Sugar
• 8 ounces Fat butter, lard, shortening or combo
• 4-5 ounces ice cold water about 1/2 to 2/3 cupIce cold water
   
• https://thegourmandiseschool.com/recipe/evans-3-2-1-pie-crust/

Edited February 9, 2021 by AAQuesada (log)

[jimb0]

bingo. it's by weight, it's the classic ratio, and it works beautifully.

 

you can't make a zero fat pie crust, and it won't look the same either. that's just called bread. if you want to bake stew inside of bread, you can, and it works very well! i make these things i call "stuffs" (because they're stuffed, get it) and often use leftover stews that i thicken up; it's basically a stuffed roll or bun with meat or cheese or vegetables, or all three. but it's bread, not a pie crust. pie crusts have fat, they need fat, it's a fundamental aspect of their nature. you can probably reduce it slightly, but you'll pay for it with a tougher texture. i recommend just making a normal pie crust and not eating a lot of it.

[weinoo]

I would just make regular pie crusts, and give up something else. How much pie does one eat...constantly?

 

Or start taking a statin.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

2 hours ago, weinoo said:

I would just make regular pie crusts, and give up something else. How much pie does one eat...constantly?

 

Or start taking a statin.

 

Or eat the pie and tell your doctor you don't want to take a statin.