What Are You Cooking Sous Vide Today? (Part 3)

[Shelby]

I still haven't had time to peruse the net a lot...but I swear TONS of people like their venison at 24 hours in the 130F -135F range.  I just saw one where they went for 48 hours.

 

I have another roast to do...I'm at a loss where to start.  Maybe I should look at beef roast SV times and see.

[KennethT]

@ShelbyIs it possible that there was something wrong with the roast prior to brining/SV?  Maybe some kind of bacteria that just went crazy at those temps?  Many years ago, on the early SV threads, people talked about doing some meat for a long time and complained that it smelled really bad when taken out of the bath.  At the time, the feeling was that for anything that goes long term, the outside should be given a brief high temp application first - to kill any surface bacteria that could cause problems.  Some people would torch the outside prior to bagging, others would submerge the bag in boiling water for 20-30 seconds just after bagging but before SV...

[Shelby]

14 minutes ago, KennethT said:

@ShelbyIs it possible that there was something wrong with the roast prior to brining/SV?  Maybe some kind of bacteria that just went crazy at those temps?  Many years ago, on the early SV threads, people talked about doing some meat for a long time and complained that it smelled really bad when taken out of the bath.  At the time, the feeling was that for anything that goes long term, the outside should be given a brief high temp application first - to kill any surface bacteria that could cause problems.  Some people would torch the outside prior to bagging, others would submerge the bag in boiling water for 20-30 seconds just after bagging but before SV...

Well, I guess it could be....but it didn't smell bad at all.  It smelled like a nice roast--even after it was cooked.  

 

I'm going to try again tomorrow and do it for much less time....we will see how it goes.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

13 hours ago, rotuts said:

Sirloin flap meet , generally sold as sirloin tips

 

pic you done-ness , then 6 hr or so.  8 if you like 130.1 F

 

No sirloin tips to be seen, chuck steak was on sale.  I may just seethe and fry the beef as the recipe suggests.  After a bit of googling it seems to be a common technique for Georgian stews.  Or, since I have a lot of chuck, I may just cut the piece in half and anova some.

 

One recipe I found called for reserving the meat after stir frying and then adding it at the end, with the stew off the heat.  That might work well for tenderloin.  But I compared the price of tenderloin to the price chuck.  Did I mention chuck was on sale?

 

[daveb]

@ Jo  -  I frequently do tough cuts and some not so tough cuts for the old folks home, 24 hrs @ 141F.  (Tenderness is paramount)  Gets very tender but not falling apart.  Would think it would work well with Chuck.  From the bath I then go to stir fry, stew, pot roast, sliced roast beast, etc.  I can't cook at a  lower temp but you could and results would be same.

[daveb]

@Shelby   I have a nice doe in the freezer and for the first time I've cut a couple roasts off.  (Normally I take out the loins and turn the rest to sausage)   So I'm following your results closely.    I had planned a dry rub of s&p and then 8 - 12 hrs in a 131F bath.    Keep posting, between us we may get there.

 

Edit:  Wonder what part the onions in the bag played in this,  did they help evoke memories of liver and onions?   Don't think I've ever put onions in the bag before.  Just a thot.

Edited February 9, 2018 by daveb (log)

[JoNorvelleWalker]

4 minutes ago, daveb said:

@ Jo  -  I frequently do tough cuts and some not so tough cuts for the old folks home, 24 hrs @ 141F.  (Tenderness is paramount)  Gets very tender but not falling apart.  Would think it would work well with Chuck.  From the bath I then go to stir fry, stew, pot roast, sliced roast beast, etc.  I can't cook at a  lower temp but you could and results would be same.

 

Thanks!  I did not feel up to dealing with the chuck today, so it is still in the refrigerator.  Do you cook the chuck as one piece and then cut it up, or do you cut up first and then sous vide?

 

[daveb]

I typically SV whole, sear the piece in a 500F oven, then cut it per application.

 

Got a bottom round in right now for Sat dinner.

[Shelby]

11 hours ago, daveb said:

@Shelby   I have a nice doe in the freezer and for the first time I've cut a couple roasts off.  (Normally I take out the loins and turn the rest to sausage)   So I'm following your results closely.    I had planned a dry rub of s&p and then 8 - 12 hrs in a 131F bath.    Keep posting, between us we may get there.

 

Edit:  Wonder what part the onions in the bag played in this,  did they help evoke memories of liver and onions?   Don't think I've ever put onions in the bag before.  Just a thot.

 

You know, I hadn't thought about it, but I don't think the onions in there did a damn thing lol.  I didn't put them in this time.  It's not done yet---I started the roast at 2 pm yesterday and let it go until 6 pm at 130F.  It wasn't even close to being done, but I pulled it because I didn't want to have to stay up or set an alarm.  I may finish it in the oven......  Or I may put it back in the bath.  I'm going to test a little piece as see what I think.  I will keep you updated and I look forward to your results.

[Shelby]

Ok, so I'm kind of pleased with the results.
 

 I took the roast out of the fridge yesterday afternoon and stared at it for a while.

 

 I decided to get my cast iron skillet blindingly hot and throw a thin sliced piece of meat on there and see what happened (remember my end-goal was roast venison sandwiches).
 

 I liked it.  Nice and tender.  SV'd 4 hours at 130F made it tender, but definitely not done enough if you were eating it like a traditional roast.

 

 I seared each piece of roast on all sides in the skillet.  Then I sliced it very thinly and quickly seared the slices in the skillet.

 

Definitely think that the brining and the long cook caused the awful texture/taste in the first roast.   

 

 

Now, I am no help in the traditional roast department, I know.  I am very much looking forward to seeing how @daveb's roast turns out.

 

 

(the sauce is copy-cat Arby's sauce)  See the finished version on the dinner thread.

Edited February 10, 2018 by Shelby (log)

[robirdstx]

Chefsteps recipe (https://www.chefsteps.com/activities/tender-juicy-sous-vide-lamb-chops) was my guide for these Bone-in Lamb Loin Chops

 

 

I did the following: froze the chops for 30 minutes, then seasoned with salt and pepper

 

 

and preseared, toasting the aromatics (rosemary and garlic),

 

 

 

 

bagged the chops with additional olive oil and the aromatics,

 

 

used my Anova at 138F for 1 hour and 45 minutes,

 

 

did a final sear on the chops after patting dry, 

 

 

 

and served with a pan sauce and green beans.

 

 

Edited February 11, 2018 by robirdstx (log)

[gfweb]

Cooks Illustrated discusses SV at some length in the March/April issue. 

Nice!

[JoNorvelleWalker]

On ‎2‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 10:30 PM, daveb said:

I typically SV whole, sear the piece in a 500F oven, then cut it per application.

 

Got a bottom round in right now for Sat dinner.

 

I cut the chuck in two and anovaed 24 hours at 55 deg.  The bags are in the ice bath now.  We shall see.  As I recall the last time I did chuck sous vide the meat was a bit mealy textured.

 

[paulraphael]

I finally nailed duck breasts, on my fourth attempt. In the past I got the meat just right but was unable to get the last of the rubberiness out of the skin. The trick was to cryosear, before sous vide cooking, and to crisp up the skin side with fairly low heat for a full 25 minutes. This not just renders the fat, but renders the collagen in the skin to gelatin, which takes time. Pre-freezing the breast, with the skin side flattened against a sheet pan, keeps the meat from cooking during this step. After cooking SV (2 hours at 56°C) I dried off the breasts with paper towels and re-seared on a very hot pan, to crisp up the skin side and put a bit of color on the top side. 

 

I did a couple of other prep steps, including air-drying and salt-drying, and scoring the skin, but the above steps are the important ones. The skin was like crisp but delicate bacon. The meat was nicely cooked with no gradient.

 

Not sure what kind of duck I used. It was a whole duck from Long Island purchased in chinatown. Breasts were smaller than what would be ideal for this. Larger breasts would be more satisfying and also a bit less demanding.

[rotuts]

@paulraphael

 

I remember Boil-N-Bag !

 

I can't say I ever used them

 

I don't think that was that long ago

 

I can't find a Google answer

 

here are some BIB:

 

[rotuts]

@paulraphael

 

would you expand on this :

 

"" The trick was to cryosear, before sous vide cooking, and to crisp up the skin side with fairly low heat for a full 25 minutes. "

 

I think I get the point 

 

but well  ....

 

BTW    do you remove the two tendons on the breast meat ?

 

I can't say it maters as I have not done DB's in a long while

 

when I did I used

 

Madeline Kamman's method :

 

score the skin ,   hot pan skin down until just brown

 

flip , pace in an over , the temp of which determines when to take out for rare meat.

[weedy]

Yes. That technique works; about half as well as Sous Vide. 

 

 

[paulraphael]

On 2/11/2018 at 12:40 PM, rotuts said:

@paulraphael

 

would you expand on this :

 

"" The trick was to cryosear, before sous vide cooking, and to crisp up the skin side with fairly low heat for a full 25 minutes. "

 

I think I get the point 

 

but well  ....

 

BTW    do you remove the two tendons on the breast meat ?

 

 

I butchered the duck just like a chicken ... if there are tendons I should be aware of, they escaped notice, both while cooking and while eating. Where are the ones you're thinking of?

 

"Cryosear" is a Mhyrvold/MC cookbook term as far as I can tell. The idea is that frozen or partially frozen meat takes so much energy to thaw that it lets you sear the thick, fatty skin of a duck for a long time before worrying about cooking the underlying meat. I find that one or two hours in the freezer, pressed skinside-down on a sheet pan does the trick. That last detail is important; you need it to sit flat in the pan. 

 

I plop the frozen breasts on a dry pan without any preheating, and turn the flame on fairly low. I'm not sure how hot the pan gets, but the key is that you want to hear it sizzling steadily but not aggressively. If starts to sound loud and hot, turn it down. After 20 minutes I start checking the underside to how brown it's getting. The goal is to brown it all the way, because the post-sear will be brief. You also want plenty of time to tenderize the collagen. 

 

You'll render a goodly amount of duck fat to save for other things. You should also have some browned pan drippings if you want to get to work on a pan sauce while the bird's in the bath.

 

Before the freezing step you want to score the fat. Either use a knife (make a fine crosshatch pattern over the whole surface of the skin), a jackard tenderizer (no need to penetrate deeper than the skin and fat) or do it the MC way and use a wire dog / cat brush (maybe get one just for this). This helps render the fat and speeds any air-drying.

 

Optional steps before freezing:

1) air dry in the fridge. Loosely cover with paper towels and let chill a couple of hours to overnight

2) salt dry. after air drying, hold in the fridge skinside-down on a bed of coarse salt, for a maximum of one hour. brush off the salt as well as possible before freezing.

 

Both these steps help concentrate flavors and may improve the crispness of the skin.

 

After SV, dry off the breasts and post-sear in a small amount of neutral, high heat oil in a hot pan. This is to crisp up the skin after it's gotten soggy in the waterbath. Takes no more than a minute. I also like to flib the breat and put a bit of color on the bottom side, in case anyone peeks under there.

[kayb]

Duck confit just went in the bath. I'll give it probably 12 hours (or until I get to it in the morning). More details on duck confit thread when I get photos edited.

[Smokeydoke]

First time diving into the souv vide water bath.

 

I decided to do short ribs, because,

1. I had them.

2. I want to make a Short Ribs and Vegetables consomme. Why? Because I like the recipe. It's not made for sous vide, but I was hoping to incorporate it into the recipe.

Is this a good idea? Will the consomme have any flavor if I use the jus from the sous vide bag?

 

I was planning on doing a 24 hour sous vide @185F, then using the jus from the bag to make the consomme.

 

Also I have short ribs from the Korean market, the ones they make kalbi, but cut long, not LA-style. Are these ok? I read earlier in the thread that someone's ribs came out dry.

 

 

 

My last question is, can I use plastic bag, for 24 hours? Or do I have to buy a vacuum sealer?

 

Wish me luck!

[gfweb]

@Smokeydoke that sounds way too hot. I'd say 140 or 145 for 24-48 hrs as a guess. 185 will dry the hell out of it. 

 

I use ziploc bags all the time. Just be sure its the freezer storage grade bag and that there is no zipper on the bag. Zippers leak. 

 

Use the immersion technique to get the air out. If it isn't perfectly evacuated just clip the bag to the vessel and the air will rise to the top. 

[Smokeydoke]

@gfweb Thanks. I got the 185 from here

https://www.chefsteps.com/activities/beef-short-ribs-your-way

 

But 140 sounds better, I'll try that.

[gfweb]

Hmmm. That's a trustworthy site. 185 would be flaky for sure. 

 

Just checked Baldwin and it said 140 for 24 to 48. Might not be very Ragu worthy though. More a knife and fork texture. 

 

As as much as folks kvell about SV short ribs, i prefer braised and all the great veg you get along with the braise 

Edited March 16, 2018 by gfweb (log)

[scubadoo97]

5 minutes ago, gfweb said:

Hmmm. That's a trustworthy site. 185 would be flaky for sure. 

 

Just checked Baldwin and it said 140 for 24 to 48. Might not be very Ragu worthy though. More a knife and fork texture. 

 

As as much as folks kvell about SV short ribs, i prefer braised and all the great veg you get along with the braise 

 

Agreed.   There is something unique in the texture of 140 short ribs that's should be tried.   But good old fashioned braising has been a round a long time because it works, it's low tech and taste great

[rotuts]

Id even go lower :   130.1  to 135

 

I like rare.   w SV you can get Rare and tender for any cut of beef you like.

 

you can go ahead and braise your veg in some low-salt beef stock.

 

the stock would concentrate to a decent SaltPoint , then you thicken it to your liking or

 

stick-blend it w some of the veg , even better.