The Bread Topic (2016–)

[Kim Shook]

11 minutes ago, Margaret Pilgrim said:

 

Broiler or frying pan or...

CSO.

[Smithy]

1 hour ago, Kim Shook said:

You're welcome!  I am ashamed to say that I've owned that pan for probably 10 years and this was the first time I've used it.  Considering how loose the dough is, I thought it was the perfect tool.  

 

Made toast with it this morning:

The two on the left were buttered after toasting and the two on the right before.  I think I like before better.  I wish I could get them a bit darker.  The problem is the edges of the crust darken and burn way before the surface of the bread gets dark enough to qualify as toast!

 

If your dough doesn't have any sugar or honey, as mine doesn't, it's difficult to get much browning without burning. That's my sole complaint about the unsweetened, lean* breads...but I've almost lost my taste for sweetened breads, except as a dessert. Even many commercial sandwich loaves are too sweet for me.

 

*I'm not sure to what degree the addition of fat for enriched bread doughs plays into the browning question. It seems to me that any dairy is likely add sugars, which will enhance browning. The better bread bakers can weigh in on this question.

[Kim Shook]

15 minutes ago, Smithy said:

 

If your dough doesn't have any sugar or honey, as mine doesn't, it's difficult to get much browning without burning. That's my sole complaint about the unsweetened, lean* breads...but I've almost lost my taste for sweetened breads, except as a dessert. Even many commercial sandwich loaves are too sweet for me.

 

*I'm not sure to what degree the addition of fat for enriched bread doughs plays into the browning question. It seems to me that any dairy is likely add sugars, which will enhance browning. The better bread bakers can weigh in on this question.

Thank you!  I did not know that and sure enough no sugar.  Would it hurt the loaf to add some sweetener?  Would it help the browning?  And if it would, how much?

[dtremit]

Late in posting these — they’re from about two weeks ago — and no crumb shots, but I’m getting much happier with my sourdough boules. About 50% bread flour, 45% WW, and 5% rye. New batch soon.

 

Have been unexpectedly busy despite being stuck at home, so more recent loaves have been from the Zojirushi. I’ve been tinkering with a dark whole wheat bread from Beth Hensperger’s “Bread Lover’s Bread Machine Cookbook” that lets me use up both sourdough discard and whey from draining Greek yogurt; will post the updated recipe here after an experiment with the next batch. We’ve also been doing Japanese milk bread in the Zo but lately I’ve been substituting a slightly leaner potato bread which is a little quicker to boot.

[Smithy]

11 minutes ago, Kim Shook said:

Thank you!  I did not know that and sure enough no sugar.  Would it hurt the loaf to add some sweetener?  Would it help the browning?  And if it would, how much?

 

It would definitely help the browning. It would probably change the flavor slightly. I don't know whether there would be other interactions - say, with the yeast - that you might or might not like. I also don't know how much!

 

There's so much that I don't know about bread-baking. Two things I do know: (1) folks here already have the answers to your questions, and I hope they speak up soon. (2) I'm off to check some of my bread science books to see if I can get a definitive answer. (That's why I hope someone speaks up soon, to save me from having to get off my duff and do actual book-research. )

[Smithy]

From The Art of Baking Bread: What You Really Need to Know to Make Great Bread by Matt Pellegrini, location 168

Quote

Sugar serves two main purposes. It is used to sweeten dough, and it can add color to the crust. However, the latter is not as straightforward as it might appear. In order to achieve the proper degree of browning, a fine balance must exist between too little and too much sugar. In fact, sugar’s impact on the color of the crust occurs when the total sugar content in the recipe is between 5%–10% by weight. And because of its effect on browning the crust, dough containing sugar must be baked at lower temperatures—generally 350°F–375°F— than dough that does not contain sugar. If you bake it at a higher temperature, the top of the crust will brown before the loaf is fully baked, and the bottom of the loaf may burn.

 

Disclaimer: I haven't actually cooked from this book yet. It's on sale in Kindle form for $1.99 (thanks to @Toliver for pointing to it here) and I bought it based on its clear writing style. He seems to cut to the chase as to the role of ingredients more clearly than I've been able to find in my extensive Kindle library. That probably just means that, as usual, I've expected to absorb knowledge by osmosis from the likes of Peter Reinhart and Ken Forkish, instead of working my way through their books!

[heidih]

3 hours ago, Kim Shook said:

Thank you!  I did not know that and sure enough no sugar.  Would it hurt the loaf to add some sweetener?  Would it help the browning?  And if it would, how much?

 

I meant to say earlier - what I do (using ancient little toaster oven) is cut my slices and let them sit so they dry out a bit. I like well toasted also. A small thing but worth a try. 

[Kim Shook]

@Smithy - it sounds like he is really talking about the color of the crust, not how dark the inside would get upon toasting.  I wonder if anyone has even written about that.  BRB - Googling!  Well, whataya know!  Apparently, I'm not the only one with this problem.  Someone asked thekitchn.com why her wonderful no-knead bread wouldn't color when toasting.  They really didn't know, but suggested it was either not enough salt or that the sugars weren't being given enough time to develop.  They suggested a longer proofing time - I guess they mean the refrigerator time?????  Well, I'll try adding a little honey/Golden syrup next time and letting it go for the full three days that my recipe suggests.  

 

We are almost out of regular bread.  Mr. Kim bought 3 loaves at the store a couple of weeks ago and put them straight in the freezer.  No extra wrapping or anything.  🙄  I just found this out when we did our inventory last weekend.  So, I'm pretty sure that they will only be good for toast or dressing.  Sigh.  Anyway, I made a loaf of ATK American Sandwich bread today.  It is just a basic, tasty, firm loaf of white bread.  Good for eating as is or toasting.  Got a nice bubble on the first rise:

But I was afraid it wasn’t rising enough during the second rise in the CSO – it didn’t get as high as the last time I made it:

 

It looked nice after the bake (CSO), but was suspicious until I cut it open:

 

Perfect.  And it tastes good, too! 

[Isabelle Prescott]

I stopped making the no knead bread because the crust gets weird.  You have to eat it the first day.  Anyone else feel this way?

 

[Kim Shook]

18 minutes ago, Isabelle Prescott said:

I stopped making the no knead bread because the crust gets weird.  You have to eat it the first day.  Anyone else feel this way?

 

My first experience with it, but we had some with dinner tonight and it was fine.  How do you mean, weird?  

[Ann_T]

I never add sugar to breads unless it is suppose to be a sweet style loaf.

And the crusts brown and I get good colour on my toast.  I'd really be  upset if my toast didn't brown. I like a well toasted "toast".

 

I roasted a chicken on Friday just so we could have hot chicken sandwiches for dinner last night. I needed plain white bread for the sandwiches and rather 

than stop at the grocery store on my way to work, I baked a batch of home-style white. 

 

Came out of the oven just before I had to leave for work.

 

Edited April 5, 2020 by Ann_T (log)

[weinoo]

@Ann_T Lovely bread - can you share the recipe and is there milk in that loaf?

 

And if so, can I make a classic sandwich loaf w/o milk, because I never keep milk in the apartment.

 

I do always have kefir; what, if any, bad things might happen subbing kefir for the milk?

[Margaret Pilgrim]

2 hours ago, weinoo said:

@Ann_T Lovely bread - can you share the recipe and is there milk in that loaf?

 

And if so, can I make a classic sandwich loaf w/o milk, because I never keep milk in the apartment.

 

I do always have kefir; what, if any, bad things might happen subbing kefir for the milk?

My mother's recipe calls for using dry milk, whole or 2%, dissolved in water for the liquid.    She made fabulous bread, totally by hand, no machines, just elbow grease.   Is that a future possibility for you?   In these days, I wish I had some.

[Chocolot]

Like everyone else, I've been playing with sourdough. This is KA's Sourdough sandwich bread. This was my first attempt. I think I got it a little dark, but it was tasty. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 6, 2020 by Chocolot (log)

[weinoo]

Bread I made yesterday. Recipe from Cuisinart food processor booklet, kneaded in Cuisinart. 10% white whole wheat flour subbed for white A/P flour.

 

And baked in the CSO...quite soft and fluffy.

 

Let's say I wanted to bake this in a loaf pan?  What quantity of dough would I use for either size of loaf pan?

[Chocolot]

2 hours ago, weinoo said:

Bread I made yesterday. Recipe from Cuisinart food processor booklet, kneaded in Cuisinart. 10% white whole wheat flour subbed for white A/P flour.

 

And baked in the CSO...quite soft and fluffy.

 

Let's say I wanted to bake this in a loaf pan?  What quantity of dough would I use for either size of loaf pan?

 

My loaves were 725 grams each. 

 

[Anna N]

3 hours ago, weinoo said:

Let's say I wanted to bake this in a loaf pan?  What quantity of dough would I use for either size of loaf pan?

 Not sure who to credit for this because it’s in my notes but I suspect it might be Modernist Bread:

 

A 9 x 5 x 2 3/4”  loaf pan needs between 1.25 and 2 pounds of dough. 
an 8 x 4 x 2 1/2“ loaf pan needs between 0.875 and 1.5 pounds of dough. 

[kayb]

Got a notification my KA flour order had shipped. There's harvest grains bread in my future. 

[Isabelle Prescott]

What is a CSO?  

 

[ElsieD]

5 minutes ago, Isabelle Prescott said:

What is a CSO?  

 

 

Cuisinart Steam Oven.

[Isabelle Prescott]

Looks like they are no longer available.  I've never seen one in any store that I've worked in for the last 5 years.  Am I right?

[ElsieD]

https://www.amazon.com/Cuisinart-CSO-300N1-Steam-Convection-Stainless/dp/B01JRT2WOG/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3I1L5N1MU6GKM&dchild=1&keywords=cuisinart+steam+convection+oven+plus&qid=1586191520&sprefix=Cuisinart+steam+%2Caps%2C170&sr=8-1

[Kim Shook]

10 minutes ago, Isabelle Prescott said:

Looks like they are no longer available.  I've never seen one in any store that I've worked in for the last 5 years.  Am I right?

If you can get ahold of one everyone who has one will tell you to go for it!  Some of us ( 🙄) even bought back ups when we realized that they were going to be discontinued.  Here is a CSO font of information (and also rabbit hole) that you can skim.  

[Isabelle Prescott]

ElsieD  Notice the amazon post says this item is currently unavailable. 

 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

21 minutes ago, Isabelle Prescott said:

ElsieD  Notice the amazon post says this item is currently unavailable. 

 

 

I saw it was available earlier this afternoon.  Now someone else is happy.