Nathan Myhrvold's Recipe for a Better Oven

[Chris Hennes]

Nathan Myhrvold (Society member nathanm, best known in these parts as the author of Modernist Cuisine) and Wayt Gibbs recently published an article in IEEE Spectrum, Nathan Myhrvold's Recipe for a Better Oven. In it they discuss problems with and potential solutions for today's ovens.

 

Most of us bake, roast, and broil our food using a technology that was invented 5,000 years ago for drying mud bricks: the oven. The original oven was clay, heated by a wood fire. Today, the typical oven is a box covered in shiny steel or sparkling enamel, powered by gas or electricity. But inside the oven, little has changed.

 

Is a brick dryer really the best system for cooking food? Not even close. The typical modern oven—even a US $10,000 unit used by professional chefs or a $5,000 model used in a high-end home kitchen—has a host of problems. It can’t cook food equally well whether full or nearly empty, left alone or regularly checked, or with food placed in any position inside. Yet oven manufacturers could solve every problem with existing technology, if only they would apply it.

I particularly like the notion of completely eliminating the glass window and replacing it with a camera and color display to help even out heat distribution and perhaps even make it easier to see. They also suggest ovens that actively transition from a convection to conduction cooking mode depending on the food's surface reflectivity (once you've got a camera pointed at the oven contents you can start to do all kinds of smart things in software). It's a long-ish article by internet standards, but a fascinating read if you're a food technology junkie.

[Lisa Shock]

Interesting, I think if ovens started using cameras and optical sensors, someone will need to develop a new generation of oven cleaners. I could see the lenses and other sensing devices becoming covered in greasy oven crud vapor pretty quickly. That said, I'd really like to see some advances in oven cleaning.

[dcarch]

Scanning high power IR laser for the cooking, IR scanning remote read temperature sensor, software database for various foods' cooking conditions.

 

I believe all the above technologies are not new.

 

dcarch

[Smithy]

I agree with Lisa with respect to the oven camera.  The camera idea makes a lot of sense; however, my industrial experience (in hot, dusty environments), coupled with kitchen disasters, suggests a need for a really bombproof lens and imaging system that can be cleaned easily.  I'd hate to have the whole camera system die because of grease spattering in the oven. I'd hate even more to think of the costs of servicing or repairing such an item.

 

I *have* noticed the wild temperature swings to which Myrhvold's article alludes.  Convection in my fancy new oven helps; baking stones on upper and lower racks help more; the combination of convection AND oven stones (top and bottom) is best.  Nonetheless the temperature fluctuates with the thermocouple's on/off cycle, and I lose at least 10F when I open the door.  It would be very nice to have an oven that avoids those problems.

 

The hot-air curtain to prevent the temperature drop when one opens the door makes theoretical sense.  They'll have to work out a way to prevent burns before it comes to fruition in the consumer world.  Do we have any beta-test volunteers? 

[KennethT]

The hot-air curtain to prevent the temperature drop when one opens the door makes theoretical sense.  They'll have to work out a way to prevent burns before it comes to fruition in the consumer world.  Do we have any beta-test volunteers? 

I don't think a hot air curtain would burn skin. I have a large walk-in convection oven at work that I have been in at 275F - I wouldn't want to spend tons of time in there, but certainly it's not dangerous. I'm sure 400F air would be even less comfortable, but because of the really poor heat conductance of air, my gut says it wouldn't burn you.

[MelissaH]

So, KennethT, shall we put you first on the list of beta-testers for THAT?

[rotuts]

with a steam option ?

[dcarch]

Camera is not much use unless it is 360 degrees view in all XYZ directions.

 

Hot air BTU lost is minimal from opening door, if you calculate air specific heat.

 

dcarch

[fvandrog]

I guess it never hurts to be ambitious, especially if you are Myhrvold.

Personally, I'd be already happy with a somewhat intelligent oven using temperature probes for the dish that regulate the oven output.

[gfweb]

I don't think a hot air curtain would burn skin. I have a large walk-in convection oven at work that I have been in at 275F - I wouldn't want to spend tons of time in there, but certainly it's not dangerous. I'm sure 400F air would be even less comfortable, but because of the really poor heat conductance of air, my gut says it wouldn't burn you.

Really?

 

I would be careful not to inhale in there.

[KennethT]

with a steam option ?

ha! Forget it with the steam option!!! That changes everything!

[scott123]

Every upgrade he's describing involves considerable additional expenditure.  If he really wants to build a better oven, build it for everyone- not just for him and his millionaire friends- at the price point it is now.

 

Anyone can throw money around.  It takes a true inventor, a true engineer, to be innovative enough to take cost into consideration.

[Chris Hennes]

I did have to laugh when the article described the upgrades as involving "only a few hundred dollars in additional parts." I'm pretty sure my current oven only cost a few hundred dollars! But at the high end of the consumer market I think these features would be welcome, and I'd even be willing to pay the current price of a high-end oven if it actually did some of this stuff.

[scott123]

Interesting, I think if ovens started using cameras and optical sensors, someone will need to develop a new generation of oven cleaners.

 

Not necessarily.  The technology already exists for removable oven walls.  Put the camera behind a removable glass plate, and, when the plate gets dirty, soak it in a baking soda solution overnight.

 

That's pretty low tech and a bit labor intensive, but it would work.

 

Self cleaning (heat cleaning) is also old technology.  Localized heat (concentrating only on the camera glass area) would be viable and would not be, imo, a 'new generation' of cleaner.

 

 

Ovens as a whole, though, need smarter approaches to cleaning.  Self cleaning is incredibly hard on ovens and wastes fuel.  Chemical oven cleaners are incredibly noxious and messy.  They need to make more ovens with walls that can be removed and soaked in mild alkaline solution (baking soda) to remove the grease.

[FauxPas]

 

 

A combi oven is not cheap. It costs roughly $15,000 for an oven the size of a half sheet pan and several times that for larger configurations. Miniature combi ovens designed for commercial kitchens have recently come on the market for as little as $2,000, but these use very small pans. And the technology is starting to come into the home kitchen—Cuisinart makes a $300 oven that can toast or steam food.

 

Nice to see the Cuisinart mentioned! 

[cakewalk]

Not necessarily.  The technology already exists for removable oven walls.  Put the camera behind a removable glass plate, and, when the plate gets dirty, soak it in a baking soda solution overnight.

 

That's pretty low tech and a bit labor intensive, but it would work.

 

Self cleaning (heat cleaning) is also old technology.  Localized heat (concentrating only on the camera glass area) would be viable and would not be, imo, a 'new generation' of cleaner.

 

 

Ovens as a whole, though, need smarter approaches to cleaning.  Self cleaning is incredibly hard on ovens and wastes fuel.  Chemical oven cleaners are incredibly noxious and messy.  They need to make more ovens with walls that can be removed and soaked in mild alkaline solution (baking soda) to remove the grease.

Nah. They need to create food that doesn't splatter.

It is interesting. I think the real test of Myhrvold's "stuff" (how's that for an all-encompassing word?) will be how it filters down for usage by the average person without thousands of dollars of disposable income. And I think some of it will, it just needs time. I'm not following him as avidly as most of you, but still I find it to be exciting. Remember when air travel was an "elite" thing? Now it's a commonplace. (And we grumble about the crowding.)

[rotuts]

"""  how it filters down for usage by the average person  """

 

with respect,  the average person goes to Olive Garden.

 

slightly below average, goes to McDonalds

 

Consumer Reports just now rated McD's the worst Burger Palace.

 

N'Out'Burger was the best.

 

I agree. fortunately there are none near me.

[cakewalk]

"""  how it filters down for usage by the average person  """

 

with respect,  the average person goes to Olive Garden.

 

slightly below average, goes to McDonalds

 

Consumer Reports just now rated McD's the worst Burger Palace.

 

N'Out'Burger was the best.

 

I agree. fortunately there are none near me.

Yes, that's true. But maybe these newfangled inventions will help to change that, if they become more accessible. Currently the stuff is inaccessible even for most home cooks who are interested in it. I think that will change in time.

[rotuts]

I agree completely w what you say.

 

Id like accessibility to a dual Combi-Oven that takes a 1/4 sheet pan x 4 per each.

 

for after the lottery ticket come in, the same at 1/2 sheet pan x 4.

 

but I do like the M.C. thinking, and Im very lucky to have the books.

[Lbakermathews]

Great article, although with the exception of a few things, it is a regurgitation of what is in the 6 set book. I'm interested to see what the first prototype of this futuristic oven will look like.  I am guessing that it will not be on the market in the next year or so when I will be purchasing a new stove for my kitchen renovation.  Even if it was, I doubt that I could afford it.  But in another 10-15 years when I'm in the market for another upgrade, these should be extremely common---at least I'm hoping so.