Chili Traditions and Regional Variations

[Katie Meadow]

When did Americans appropriate the term "Chili con Carne" and think it meant beef? It's just meat. In many places chili or chile is made with pork usually cut in chunks. In New Mexico a bowl of chile was referred to as a bowl of red or a bowl of green. Typically it did not have beans. It was a long-cooked flavorful pork, and heat was applied either with fresh roasted green chiles or slurry made from soaked dry red chile pods. A pot of beans was a separate thing, at least among my cohort. It also would be flavored with pork. If memory serves, we would sometimes make a dish that used beef and potatoes. It was called Green Chile beef stew. Also no beans. 

 

I know there's a Texas faction that faithfully clings to the concept of chili as a no-beans thing. I'm  not a Texan, so I have no opinion about that. Growing up in the Northeast I alway thought of "Chili con Carne" as an Americanized hodgepodge, often using ground beef, beans and a kitchen sink full of stuff. I associated it with pot lucks, college dorms, football games. Often it was sprinkled before serving with some kind of grated American cheese or maybe cheddar. Heat level came from the under or over use of any kind of available ground chile powder. If you ordered it in a diner it would come with saltines.  Of course in New Mexico and other southwestern regions it was always served o[with warm tortillas.

 

Oops, forgot to mention later interventions like Firehouse Chili and Firehouse Chili Gumbo. Firehouse chili is supposed to be SMOKY. Firehouse chili gumbo is a kitchen sink explosion of meats, beans, ketchup, vegetables and Louisiana spices using a roux. Hard to imagine, truly.

 

Edited December 13, 2022 by Katie Meadow (log)

[AlaMoi]

22 hours ago, Katie Meadow said:

When did Americans appropriate the term "Chili con Carne" and think it meant beef?

 

 

indeed.  defining "chili" is like defining a soft boiled egg - oops, a soft cooked egg . . . .

 

depending on the area, chili is with or without beans.

chili con carne . . . would that not imply a bean chili with meat added?

a meat only chili would simply be a carne con carne, no?

 

or the definition of 'shepherd's pie' . . .

or how to peel a hard boiled/cooked egg . . . .

the "best" <anything>

 

people who are inflexible with definitions are in for an interesting life . . .

[Anna N]

On 12/13/2022 at 3:42 PM, Katie Meadow said:

When did Americans appropriate the term "Chili con Carne" and think it meant beef?

It doesn’t much matter when because you cannot turn back the clock. For 90% of North Americans Chili Con Carne or simply Chili means a beef dish seasoned with some form of chilli peppers. 

[johnnyd]

The book "Real Stew" by Clifford Wright features the story of "Son of a bitch in a sack", actually "Texas Red", LBJ's favorite dish. It's a chili without beans or tomatoes, which were too heavy to carry on the cattle drives, so it's mainly dried chilies and spices. We don't make chili any other way now.

 

This recipe is close:

https://www.epicurious.com/recipes/food/views/true-texas-chili-355049

[FeChef]

1 hour ago, johnnyd said:

The book "Real Stew" by Clifford Wright features the story of "Son of a bitch in a sack", actually "Texas Red", LBJ's favorite dish. It's a chili without beans or tomatoes, which were too heavy to carry on the cattle drives, so it's mainly dried chilies and spices. We don't make chili any other way now.

 

This recipe is close:

https://www.epicurious.com/recipes/food/views/true-texas-chili-355049

To be fair, that recipe calls for beef stock. No mention of beef bouillon. I doubt they would be carring around beef stock on cattle drives either.

[Anna N]

2 hours ago, FeChef said:

To be fair

The poster said the recipe was “close”. 

Edited December 16, 2022 by Anna N
To fix quote attribution (log)

[AlaMoi]

"It's a chili without beans or tomatoes, which were too heavy to carry on the cattle drives"

 

uhmmm, beans were, and remain, a thing on the trail

 

https://www.legendsofamerica.com/we-chuckwagon/
Food carried in the chuck wagon was generally easy-to-preserve items such as beans, salted meats, coffee, onions, potatoes, lard, and flour to make biscuits.

 

https://nationalcowboymuseum.org/explore/the-chuck-wagon/
Biscuits and beans made up the majority of what was served on the range, but the occasional dessert did make its way onto the menu when possible.

 

https://freerangeamerican.us/chuck-wagon/
Other common food the cookies served included black-eyed peas, beans, corn, and cabbage. Beef and bison steaks were plentiful, sometimes mixed into stews with chiles, garlic, and onion. Catfish and shrimp caught from the nearby rivers, lakes, and coastal waters added variety. Sourdough bread, biscuits, and skillet cornbread were among the most common sides served with the meals.

[Katie Meadow]

I wondered how they had time to cook beans. Here's what I found:

"Out on the trail, the chuck wagon cook soaked beans in a pot during the day. He’d set up camp and cook up a batch, but the beans would have to be eaten right away. Cooked beans spoil or sour quickly, so cowhands didn’t eat them on the trail unless they were traveling with the chuck wagon."

 

"The cookie went hell-for-leather to prepare for the evening camp, collecting firewood or buffalo chips along the way for the campfire. The evening meal usually consisted of beans, salt pork, dried apples and an occasional beefsteak. A creative cookie was worth his weight in gold. He might find a prairie hen’s nest and cook up a special dessert.'

 

So it's summer. The cattle drive stops for the night at dusk. The beans need two hours to simmer. No wonder they needed so much coffee, just to stay awake for dinner. I also learned they ate....wait for it..... soda crackers aka SALTINES. But then a treat for dessert: cowboy espresso (the mud at the bottom of the pot) and flan. Not too shabby.

[AlaMoi]

the chuck wagon was typically ahead of the herd - most times cookie had the time.

and....btw...etc... early 'crackers' more resembled 'hard tack' than Nabisco Saltines.

the advent and availability of 'baking powder' considered . . . .

 

note:  if you choose to explore hard tack, the poster disavows all responsibility for your dental bills.

[nickrey]

Winning recipes from the Terlingua Chilli Cook-Off (going 75 years and counting) can be found at this link. Note that fillers (such as beans) are not permitted. I remember seeing a cooking show episode on this competition from the 1980s. They cooked the Chilli as per the requirements and then added beans afterwards for their eating pleasure. Enjoy your experimentation: it's a rabbit hole. I also add Worcestershire sauce, cocoa powder, and liquid smoke which are a bit out of the ordinary but give the Chilli extra depth. Enjoy!

[Margaret Pilgrim]

re what you could carry on the trail, in 1909, my father, age 16, and a friend bicycled from the Pacific Ocean to Yosemite Park.   They carried sleeping bags, bacon and beans. 

[patrickamory]

For the history of chili I highly recommend reading John Thorne, "Serious Pig." It's deep and fascinating.

 

He would argue that beans were of course a presence at all times. The question is whether they went in the chili or were served on the side. Doubtless both happened.

 

For him, it all starts with the chiles, as the name of the dish suggests. Beyond that everything is improvisation. Meat, fat, and fire. 

[chileheadmike]

There is a current thread going about chili on a sports bored that I'm on. It's Kansas Jayhawks bored so, Midwest US.

Many of us had chili for school lunch, served with big homemade cinnamon rolls. It was interesting that some had never heard of this and those who had it loved it. Seems to be specific to the Kansas City area and maybe more specifically to Catholic schools. 

[SLB]

 

8 hours ago, chileheadmike said:

Many of us had chili for school lunch, served with big homemade cinnamon rolls.

 

I confess:  I am struggling with this.  Struggling hard.  

 

I got as far, conceptually, as chili with something like that sugar-sweet cornbread like from the ole Marie Callendars (site of my very first job in 1983, at an age when I thought basically everything that one ate in an actual restaurant must be just fabulous.  Even it was candy-passing-for-food). 

 

But. I could not get any farther.  Chili and CINNAMON BUNS???

[Margaret Pilgrim]

17 minutes ago, SLB said:

 

  Chili and CINNAMON BUNS???

 

I'm not at all surprised that the kids championed this combination.   In a perfect world, the cinnamon buns were considered dessert, regardless of the timeline in which they were consumed.

[FeChef]

19 minutes ago, SLB said:

 

 

I confess:  I am struggling with this.  Struggling hard.  

 

I got as far, conceptually, as chili with something like that sugar-sweet cornbread like from the ole Marie Callendars (site of my very first job in 1983, at an age when I thought basically everything that one ate in an actual restaurant must be just fabulous.  Even it was candy-passing-for-food). 

 

But. I could not get any farther.  Chili and CINNAMON BUNS???

I heard Cinci chili has cinnamon and spaghetti in it, so this is not shocking to me.

[Anna N]

28 minutes ago, FeChef said:

I heard Cinci chili has cinnamon and spaghetti in it, so this is not shocking to me.

Doesn’t do it for me, but apparently it is a thing
 

Here.

[heidih]

Somebody here - maybe @Shelbyor @Kim Shook mentioned a sweet roll with chii or soethng similar.  Not in y experience but???

[FeChef]

28 minutes ago, Anna N said:

Doesn’t do it for me, but apparently it is a thing
 

Here.

You and me both, and i could argue all day with you on french fries with mayo or ketchup.

[gfweb]

Cincinnati chili is an aberration/abomination. Cinnamon, raw onion, spaghetti, grated cheese.

Barf-worthy

[FeChef]

14 minutes ago, gfweb said:

Cincinnati chili is an aberration/abomination. Cinnamon, raw onion, spaghetti, grated cheese.

Barf-worthy

Might be the first thing me and you agree on. Will your hate for me, get past our differences?

Edited December 31, 2022 by FeChef (log)

[heidih]

4 minutes ago, FeChef said:

Might be the first thing me and you agree on.

Oh gawd in general the cold yellow shredded cheese like in "Mexican" food. oops I guess it is orange - ick

 

Edited December 31, 2022 by heidih (log)

[FeChef]

30 minutes ago, heidih said:

Oh gawd in general the cold yellow shredded cheese like in "Mexican" food. oops I guess it is orange - ick

 

Im waiting for Guga to release a YT video on chili with Mac n cheese powder. You know its only a matter of time. You heard it here First! Let's dew it.

Edited December 31, 2022 by FeChef (log)

[AAQuesada]

3 hours ago, SLB said:

chili with something like that sugar-sweet cornbread like from the ole Marie Callendars

My Favorite! Honey butter, cornbread and chili!! Growing up in LA Marie Callander's was always a treat, and my parent Apartment when I was born was right next to one so as we got older we went on birthdays ect.. 

[chileheadmike]

17 hours ago, SLB said:

 

 

I confess:  I am struggling with this.  Struggling hard.  

 

I got as far, conceptually, as chili with something like that sugar-sweet cornbread like from the ole Marie Callendars (site of my very first job in 1983, at an age when I thought basically everything that one ate in an actual restaurant must be just fabulous.  Even it was candy-passing-for-food). 

 

But. I could not get any farther.  Chili and CINNAMON BUNS???

Sounds odd, and only the people who grew up in KC were aware of this. It was a highlight for us kids.