Cooking vacuum-packed vegetables in the microwave

[Anna N]

I'll presume there is some reason that just using a water bath to cook carrots and butter in a sealed bag won't work for the intended purpose?  I know from her posts previously that Anna has at least one immersion circulator readily to hand, so is the microwave substitution just to save time and turn a hour at 180F in the bath into 2.5 minutes in the nuker? Or is there some other benefit here too?

Now you are beginning to engage, thank you. I would be embarrassed to enumerate my immersion circulators. Every one of them was a gift. I live alone so it is certainly possible for me to SousVide some protein and more than one side! And I am not unaware of my great fortune. But still a well-known chef has suggested that what I can do in the want to buy that takes two hours or thereabouts, I can accomplish in 2-3 minutes. And I could have another technique in my quiver.

[Anna N]

Something that hasn't come up in this discussion is using different wattages and power settings on the microwave. It may be that Anna's carrots came out raw compared to the ones prepared by the Voltagios because her microwave was using different power settings. With the exception of broccoli, I seldom cook vegetables in the microwave but I've found that I get better results using lower power settings. My theory is that because these settings cook the vegetable more slowly, it allows the vegetable to become softer by the time it starts to give off a significant amount of steam. I occasionally use the microwave on full power to finish off SV carrots if they haven't really finished cooking in the water bath. This is a great way to compensate for timing errors if you're trying to serve SV veg a la minute.

Thank you. This is one of the points I was hoping somebody would address. When I find time I intend to reduce the size of my carrots as one experiment and reduce the power of my microwave as another experiment.

[weedy]

When I do this I almost always let the bag burst (as voltaggio actually does in the demo video too!)

And I do seal the carrots in with a good amount of butter.

(Edge sealer. Not chamber)

And for me the results are just about perfect and it takes a total of 3 mins or so in the microwave.

So I do it often.

Yes doing them in the circulator at 185 for an hour or more might yield a very similar result.

But it takes hours AND ties up a circulator I usually am using for something more specifically worthwhile. The microwave version comes out perfectly fine.

For me.

Edited September 12, 2017 by weedy (log)

[JoNorvelleWalker]

Thank you. This is one of the points I was hoping somebody would address. When I find time I intend to reduce the size of my carrots as one experiment and reduce the power of my microwave as another experiment.

 

I am so glad you got this resolved, Anna.  I was worried you were either posting on your phone or hitting the M.R. awfully early in the day.

 

My experiments with vegetables sous vide have not been that great -- except for modernist corn on the cob, which is my preferred way to cook it.

 

I'd be afraid to use a sous vide bag in a microwave.  Neither a normal bag because they are not designed to take the high temperatures, nor a retort pouch because as far as I understand, they are metalized.

[nickrey]

When water converts to steam, its volume increases by more than 700 times. I don't think using a bigger bag will do much to solve the problem.

It would increase the time from inflation to bursting, which gives more time to stop the microwave. Depends on what problem you are looking to solve.

[dcarch]

Microwave cooking is different than any other cooking methods in how it reacts with food. Very complicated and somewhat unpredictable, depends on the food, and each microwave oven. Food thickness, weight, moisture content, electrical conductivity, placement inside the microwave, standing wave pattern inside the microwave ---------.

 

With a new microwave feature,  the so called inverter technology, that is one more factor to consider.

 

dcarch

[rotuts]

I went to the store and got some carrots w tops :

 

 

these were organic, as only those had tops.  $ 3.99 a bunch  the bunch 'as seen' weighted in at

 

650 grams.  You do the math, its clear the result is   /lbs for me so I wont do it.

 

 

these are the tops cut off with a little carrot attached in water on the deck.  all winter, no matter the

 

overnight snow-fall, one rabbit circles the house via the deck, and another one around the other side.

 

Always wise to squeeze as many Experiments as possible from your Exp.budget, large or small.

 

Ill repost back to see if bunny "A", the Deck Bunny , was interested at all.

 

 

carrots cleaned lightly w a soft brush but not peeled.

 

the lower 4 are 23 grams each, +/- 1 gram.  Ill use those for Phase One

 

I bagged the two lower carrots individually in 9 " x 12 " 3 mil bags, the ones that were samples

 

that came with my VacMaster 215 chamber vac.  I forgot to take a picture of these

 

pre-exp.  The building excitement must have been too much for me to handle.  

 

All experiments were done in a plain vanilla built-in GE microwave, the type that's pretty standard

 

above you stove/oven.  Sorry no wattage etc details.

 

the first carrot , 23 gams, chamber vac sealed, was Micro'd.  the bag began to swell at

 

32 second, and burst at 1:15.   the swelling was impressive.  pics on later trials.

 

the carrot was way over cooked, as one might guess for a 23 gm carrot.  plain, no salt, no butter.

 

A fairly identical 'chamber vac'd carrot' , also plain, was micro'd and the 'wave was stopped at 45 sec.

 

 

its was closer to 'just about right' but might have been better at 40 sec.

 

Two carrots, carrot₃ and carrot₄, counting from the bottom, were bagged w a little butter, and some

 

grated ginger from FzGinger I keep in the freezer.

 

 

these w/o the additional materials weighed in at 50 grams.

 

I Zapped them, the ballooning was interestingly delayed ( sorry no data point ) 

 

and I stopped the experiment at 2:15. In the micro these looked like this :

 

 

I let them cool in cold water.  the bag was intact, and they looked like this when I put them in the

 

refrig :

 

 

Ill reheat them later and see what they are like.  they seemed flexible but firm while cold.

 

The Experiment was terminated at this point.  Time for a little analysis before i 'nuke the other 4 I

 

got. I wont be getting carrots like these any time soon.

 

maybe from the farmers market this spring.  still a foot of snow out there.

 

what did i learn so far :

 

If you pay attention to your materials and methods and keep reasonable track of your experiences

 

this works well enough to have its place in the kitchen

 

Ill try to get some 4 mil bags 'just for fun'

 

remember i did not peel these carrots, as I rarely do.  I thought i noticed the skin more than

 

i usually do, but it might not be a big difference.

 

I plan to slice the remaining three carrots and bag w ginger/butter/brown sugar and a pinch of salt.

 

If I can get my 'one-portions' amounts down pat, the right timings , this is a keeper for me.

 

Chamber vac bags are 3 - 4 cents a piece.   the plain vacuum bags, with the corrugated side

 

are 35 to 45 cents a bag

 

if you have freezer space, and don't mind 'want ever a freezer does to fresh veg', this would

 

be a fine summer time way to deal with your garden's produce, or the farmers market's fresh veg for 'later'.

 

Whether later that evening, a few days later, or when its snowing.

 

PS  a big thanks to weedy and AnnaN for bringing this subject up now. And thanks, VacMaster 215 for

 

being able to use cheap cheap bags !   I probably never paid much attention to MC @ VacMicrowave

 

due to the expense of the plain vacuum bags.

Edited March 31, 2015 by rotuts (log)

[rotuts]

I took those two carrots that had chilled in the refrigerator and micro'd them for 15 sec.

 

they were hot.

 

the butter/ginger sauce was good, with some carrot flavor.

 

the carrots themselves were a disappointment depending on where i tasted:  the thickest part was a bit underdone

 

and the thiner part over done.  this is as I expected from microwaving veg.

 

you have to be really savvy with your microwave, or really lucky to get MicroSV to come out consistently well.

 

the only thing i manage to do in the microwave, consistently and easily , time after time, is bring water to the boil for

 

my drip coffee.

 

but Ill play around a little more, perhaps as mention on lower power settings.

 

MicroVeg is not  " Set it, and Forget it "   at least for me.

[ElsieD]

I tried this tonight. I used 7 carrots (purchased without tops) of several different colours, put them in a sous vide bag in a single layer, added butter and chopped ginger and put them in the microwave which is 1200 watts. Mindful of what I have been reading here, I decided to cook them at 80% power for 3 minutes. I kept worrying that the bag would explode so every time the thing ballooned up I opened the door and had a peek which then caused the bag to deflate a bit. I did this maybe 4 times. For the last 45 seconds or so I just walked away, explosion be damned. Well, it did not explode but there was a small separation in one of the side seams, maybe 1/4 inch, not the top one I had done. The carrots are cooked evenly and they are perfect. I can pierce them easily with my skewer but they have some bite to them. I like doing them this way, now if I can just get over my fear of the bag exploding...........

[weedy]

If you put it on a plate so that the butter can't make a mess, the popping of the bag is no biggie.

It tends to burst at the highest point anyway (at least my bags do)

[dcarch]

"---now if I can just get over my fear of the bag exploding.--"

 

When you seal your bag, put a little rolled up paper towel at the corner where the seal is. This way the bag will still inflate but the paper will let some steam out without bursting the bag.

 

dcarch

[weedy]

I don't KNOW that that would work as well

 

i mean how would that be different from doing it in a ceramic dish covered with cling film (as I think someone else asked earlier)?

 

 

the bag bursting is nothing to fear

[dcarch]

I don't KNOW that that would work as well

 

i mean how would that be different from doing it in a ceramic dish covered with cling film (as I think someone else asked earlier)?

 

 

Why should there be any difference?

 

dcarch

Edited April 3, 2015 by dcarch (log)

[weedy]

I suppose the scientific thing to do, is to compare carrots done in a cling film covered ceramic dish to those done in an inflated sealed bag

 

I SUSPECT there is a difference, but I haven't done the side by side in real time comparison

[dcarch]

I suppose the scientific thing to do, is to compare carrots done in a cling film covered ceramic dish to those done in an inflated sealed bag

 

I SUSPECT there is a difference, but I haven't done the side by side in real time comparison

 

The air pressure inside a sealed plastic bag is not going to be high enough to create higher temperature. Any higher temperature generated will not be significant enough to get from the surface of the carrot to the interior in such a short time based on the thermal conductivity of the carrot.

 

The only difference, based on your statement, possibly, some "ceramic" dish can actually heat up under microwave, but not a plastic bag.

 

dcarch

[weedy]

really?

how much is the pressure inside an inflated but not burst bag? (how can you know?)

what's the relationship between increased pressure (no after how small) over 1 atm and increased temperature?

 

my bottom line remains that it works well and is easy (including no extra dish to clean)

 

the why is only moderately or tangentally interesting to me.

Edited April 5, 2015 by weedy (log)

[dcarch]

really?

how much is the pressure inside an inflated but not burst bag? (how can you know?)

what's the relationship between increased pressure (no after how small) over 1 atm and increased temperature?

 

------------------------------

 

There is a lot of guessing, of course.

 

To make calculation simpler, assuming a 12" x 12" bag. That would be 144 x 2 = 288 sq. in.

 

Assuming 1 psi of pressure, then every inch of the bag will be stretched by 288 lbs of tension. Can the plastic be strong enough softened under 212F of heat to take 288 lbs of stretching?

 

Assuming it can. the temperature inside will be about 216F.

 

For reference, the temperature inside a pressure cooker is 250 F.

 

dcarch

[Anna N]

 I am reviving this thread.

 

First the acronym ALV is really not catching on much as one might wish it would do so. 

 

 Second because I have never got this method to work and that weighs heavily on me.  And I know I am not alone in this. 

 

 The acronym  and the method are favoured by @mgaretz who seems to have success with many different vegetables. 

 

 So who else is having success with ALV (a la Voltaggio)?  And what is it that the rest of us are missing?

 

 

 

 

[Okanagancook]

As it so happens I tried carrots last night.  First off I did not cut them thin enough; after at least 1.5 minutes the bag puffed up so I stopped it; the bag deflated but did not suck back to vacuum sealed state.  I did another few blitzes until the bag puffed each time and still most of the carrots were very el dente.  The flavour was pretty good.

 

I just dug up some more carrots and will try again but will do them two-pencils thick.

[mgaretz]

Some veggies, like thicker pieces of carrots and cauliflower, take some extra effort.  What I usually do is give them a few minutes or until the bag just starts to puff and then turn off the microwave.  Let them rest for 5 to 10 minutes and let their residual heat cook them some more, then just before serving I will redo them until the bag gets almost to bursting.  That usually does the trick, but I have given up on getting Brussels Sprouts to come out good with this method.  I also use it a lot on frozen veggies, like peas, corn, green beans, etc. (the straight method, not the two steps).

[weedy]

I think the "a la" is confusing. 

 

I mean we dont call it cooking "a la Sous Vide" even though one COULD. 

 

I'd suggest VMT (voltaggio mircowave technique)

 

 

[Anna N]

31 minutes ago, weedy said:

I think the "a la" is confusing. 

 

I mean we dont call it cooking "a la Sous Vide" even though one COULD. 

 

I'd suggest VMT (voltaggio mircowave technique)

 

 

I think an argument can be made for "a la" (in the manner/style of)  but it translates poorly when it is capitalized.  I think its lifespan as an abbreviation is quite limited  although I understand the desire to shorten it in some way.  

[Anna N]

1 hour ago, mgaretz said:

Some veggies, like thicker pieces of carrots and cauliflower, take some extra effort.  What I usually do is give them a few minutes or until the bag just starts to puff and then turn off the microwave.  Let them rest for 5 to 10 minutes and let their residual heat cook them some more, then just before serving I will redo them until the bag gets almost to bursting.  That usually does the trick, but I have given up on getting Brussels Sprouts to come out good with this method.  I also use it a lot on frozen veggies, like peas, corn, green beans, etc. (the straight method, not the two steps).

 The system as described by the Voltaggios  is simple and fast. What do you think the advantage is when you need to take the extra step? 

[mgaretz]

It's simple and fast for most vegetables.  Like tonight I made peas with butter for dinner, from frozen, in about 80 seconds.

 

I think the vegetables taste better and are way less likely to be over cooked like can easily happen in the dish covered with plastic wrap method.

 

@weedy says it also saves a dish.  For me it doesn't because I am going to transfer the veggies to a serving dish, which, using the normal method as above, would typically be the cooking dish.  But I will say that cutting the top of the bag and pouring the veggies into the serving dish is a lot easier than trying to get the plastic wrap off the hot dish!

[mgaretz]

3 hours ago, weedy said:

I think the "a la" is confusing. 

 

I mean we dont call it cooking "a la Sous Vide" even though one COULD. 

 

I'd suggest VMT (voltaggio mircowave technique)

 

 

 

Sorry, that acronym is not an appetizing way to describe cooking.