French Onion Soup

[AlaMoi]

the recipe calls for dry white wine - not a problem.  not being a French souse, I don't stock cognac.

certainly I could buy some, but it would be a long time before it's 'used up'

it would add some twang to the flavor, methinking along with dozens of other 'flavoring' ingredients, might not be missed....

 

dry vermouth for Manhattans, that I got . . .

 

any opinions on "sweet onions" vs yellow?  experience counts.  internet theories simply suck.

[Duvel]

I use what you would call “yellow onions” …

 

I also don’t think you’ll miss the stronger alcohols, but I think white wine gives a nice, complex, tart undertone.

 

But again: what is it you’d call a disastrous outcome ? What would you like to improve ? Texture, flavor, the “oomph” ? Just some help where you want to steer …

[weinoo]

I think it comes down to (in addition to what has been mentioned, is how good is your beef stock.

[Anna N]

32 minutes ago, Duvel said:

It’s all in … the cook.

 

Edit: I have never used vermouth. I usually put whatever white wine i have open. Could add some brandy next time, though …

Well at least it’s in the cook but you’re just rushing things a bit. 

[Duvel]

Just now, Anna N said:

Well at least it’s in the cook but you’re just rushing things a bit. 

Well … if any recipe based on caramelizing onions is your idea of rushing 😝

 

Applying the cognac to the cook who hast to stir every few minutes seems to be the better deal …

[Anna N]

26 minutes ago, weinoo said:

I think it comes down to (in addition to what has been mentioned, is how good is your beef stock.

That and properly caramelizing the onions. I made Julia‘s recipe many times and the result was always excellent. Always yellow/brown cooking onions. Thinly sliced was close enough for me. 

[weinoo]

Doesn't the instant pot make seriously good caramelized onions or something?

[kayb]

Crock pot does. I’ve never tried the IP on slow cook.

[Anna N]

37 minutes ago, weinoo said:

Doesn't the instant pot make seriously good caramelized onions or something?

Never found anything that did the job as well as a stainless steel or cast iron sauté pan and lots of patience. 

[MaryIsobel]

32 minutes ago, Anna N said:

Never found anything that did the job as well as a stainless steel or cast iron sauté pan and lots of patience. 

Again, I agree. I have tried different, easier methods but find low and slow stove top gives me the results I want.

[AlaMoi]

and no one knows how thin is "thin"

[blue_dolphin]

1 hour ago, weinoo said:

Doesn't the instant pot make seriously good caramelized onions or something?

Kenji published an IP caramelized onion recipe over there but they had to walk it back and don’t recommend it. I tried it. No good. 

[Duvel]

29 minutes ago, AlaMoi said:

and no one knows how thin is "thin"

 

 

Onion action starts at 6:50 min …

 

[dans]

3 hours ago, AlaMoi said:

any opinions on "sweet onions" vs yellow?  experience counts.  internet theories simply suck.

 

Restaurants charge a few dollars more by using whatever alliums you have a lot of and call it N-onion soup. Yellow, sweet, scallion, scallion, etc.  are all fair game.

 

I use a combination of whatever I have on hand.

Edited June 14, 2022 by dans (log)

[JoNorvelleWalker]

I have made it, but I am hardly an expert on onion soup.  However unless I were on a desert island I would use only yellow onions.  Sweet onions, as lovely as they be on sandwiches, are not really all that sweet.  Granted I have not tried them side by side but I suspect a yellow onion would caramelize much better.

 

In the 1990's I had a coworker newly come to this country from Poland.  One day she was almost in tears because her onion stew was ruined.  Growing up behind the iron curtain she assumed an onion was an onion.  Not so, she learned, in America.

 

[IndyRob]

I've been comparing many French Onion Soup videos on Youtube lately.  The one thing that really varies is the bread content.  One restaurant chef didn't want to put any bread in at all, thinking it disgusting.  In one of Julia's earlier recipes, she put a layer of bread, then sliced cheese, then soup, then another layer of bread, and grated cheese on top.  I think I like this best as it is the heartiest.

 

Another variation is the stock.  Jacques Pepin uses chicken stock, while others use beef or even veal stock.  But then again, Julia demonstrated canned soup fortified by some red wine.  That's what I do most of the time.  Forgo the added water and add wine.

 

There's also another thing Julia did in one of her earlier shows, adding a bit of flour to the sauteed onions to add a bit of body.  I think I'll try this next time.

[liuzhou]

Maybe I've just never had a good French Onion Soup. I like everything involved, but not together. I'd rather have the bread and cheese on the side as a sandwich, thanks.

[Anna N]

31 minutes ago, IndyRob said:

There's also another thing Julia did in one of her earlier shows, adding a bit of flour to the sauteed onions to add a bit of body.  I think I'll try this next time.

That is definitely one of the parts that I missed seeing on this video that was always a part of the recipe of hers that I used. And never any herbs in the recipe although I see she used them here. 

[blue_dolphin]

1 hour ago, liuzhou said:

Maybe I've just never had a good French Onion Soup. I like everything involved, but not together. I'd rather have the bread and cheese on the side as a sandwich, thanks.

Caramelized onions do elevate a toasted cheese sandwich ❤️ but I think I will act on your suggestion and assemble some caramelized onion & Parm bruschetta.   Mmmmmm 😋

[jmacnaughtan]

12 hours ago, Duvel said:

Not fully sure what can go wrong - can you specify ?

 

Soup lacking texture, body, flavor (which flavor), ..?

 

Chop the onions (I’d lean towards the thinner side, but it doesn’t really matter). Sweat in oil & butter until caramelized. Adjust sweetness with a bit of (brown) sugar, if required. Dust with flower, add some white wine (if you like) and some really decent beef stock. Salt. Cook for maybe 1h, so you can still feel the onions, bit there is no stringy bits left. Soup should be viscous by now. Adjust saltyness, sweetness should be well rounded now. Do your fancy stuff with roasted bread & cheese or eat directly …

 

It depends on what you're looking for, but I generally don't use stock at all. If you use a lot of decent onions and caramelise them properly, a little flour and then just water seems to give a cleaner flavour. I'm not really a fan of the really beefy/winey/boozy onion soups.

 

IMO, the real problem comes when you try to short-cut the browning process.

[Duvel]

9 hours ago, Anna N said:

That is definitely one of the parts that I missed seeing on this video that was always a part of the recipe of hers that I used. And never any herbs in the recipe although I see she used them here. 

A bit of thyme I wouldn’t mind at all, but more herbs would distract from the onion/beef theme for me as well …

[Owtahear]

I like to painfully and slowly cook down the onions and let it caramelize, even adding some liquid and further reducing to intensify the onion flavor a couple of times.   Then of course homemade stock.  But beef stock can be overwhelming, veal stock maybe not practical, but half beef and half really good bodied chicken stock seems to carry the onions and allow everything to meld together.   I use dry vermouth or white wine, and a splash or so of sherry.   Cheese usually a gruyere/monz or provolone mixture because family (I do too) love the cheese.   Do it all in a enamel dutch oven.   

[Kim Shook]

This is probably not what you want, but thought I'd chime in.  The recipe that I use most often is actually called Onion Garlic Soup because it calls for both sautéed garlic and a head of roasted garlic.  I know that it must have come from an early 1980's issue of either Bon Appetit or Gourmet because it was my company "go-to" starter when we first got married (1982) and subscriptions to both those magazines were given to me as shower gifts.  

 

It calls for half chicken and half beef stock and Chablis (very 1980's 😁) and is brought to a certain point in a pot and then baked at 350F for two hours!  It's then divided up into bowls for serving and, oddly, topped with a beaten raw egg and some Gruyere and returned to the oven for 10 minutes.  I don't think I did the egg business more than a couple of times and then switched over to a really cheesy crouton topping.  To me, that is arguably the best part of the soup - the soppy bread and stringy cheese.  This is the Onion Soup that Jessica was raised on and she believes that no one else's holds up to mine.  That makes me happy.  

[AlaMoi]

well, I used Julia's recipe. 

sliced 3/16" (4.7625mm) thick.

took my time caramelizing the onion.

used (pre-stocked) dark roux to thicken a bit.

toasted bread and cheese on the casserole floor; toasted bread & cheese topping.

it all went according to plan, and bombed.

 

as some have pointed out, 100% beef stock turns out a very strong / overpowering soup.

DW did not care for the wine bit, and was particular put-off by the cognac.

if I do it again, I think I'll go with water and perhaps some ? seasonings - but no wine, no cognac.

[Anna N]

3 hours ago, AlaMoi said:

well, I used Julia's recipe. 

sliced 3/16" (4.7625mm) thick.

took my time caramelizing the onion.

used (pre-stocked) dark roux to thicken a bit.

toasted bread and cheese on the casserole floor; toasted bread & cheese topping.

it all went according to plan, and bombed.

 

as some have pointed out, 100% beef stock turns out a very strong / overpowering soup.

DW did not care for the wine bit, and was particular put-off by the cognac.

if I do it again, I think I'll go with water and perhaps some ? seasonings - but no wine, no cognac.

I am sorry it bombed but I do not think it was necessarily the fault of the soup.  By it’s very nature onion soup is not likely to be mild. It certainly is not to everyone’s taste. I think there are many soups that would be much more pleasing to DW. 

Edited June 18, 2022 by Anna N
Typos (log)