Poultry Viscera and Other Offal

[Shelby]

8 minutes ago, Anna N said:

Where do doves fit in here?  I know @Shelbycooks them, and they belong to the same family as pigeons. Are any domesticated or only hunted?

We've (and remember we are in Kansas where we don't get the stuff that people in bigger cities do) never seen doves sold commercially.  

[farcego]

1 hour ago, Tropicalsenior said:

Very interesting, thank you. In Costa Rica, any part of the chicken that isn't meat is called menudos. That includes the head the feet and all the viscera. I'm not sure about other animals because I've just heard them called by the name of the individual organs. The word menudo has many meanings and of course the one that we know the most is the popular soup of Mexico. It was the favorite soup of my husband's and I used to make it all the time for him. It only passed my lips once and that was one time too many.

I would understand "menudos" by context. The word "menudillos" is something sometimes used, and referred, to chicken guts as you said. Could be the Spanish equivalent to giblets?

cheers

[farcego]

16 hours ago, liuzhou said:

Pigeons for sale in Liuzhou market

 

In 2019, I visited Scotland where I grew up. As part of this nostalgia fest, I visited the castle in my hometown where I ran into some American tourists who were just coming out of the castle’s dovecot (in most of Scotland pronounced ‘doo kit' with the stress on the first syllable.)

 

17th Century Pigeon Loft or Dovecot in Scotland

 

Interior of dovecot with roosts for hundreds of birds

 

The father was explaining to his adult son and his wife that the pigeons were kept in order to carry messages. The way he described it was like it was like some sort of avian version of Facebook.

 

Unfortunately, he was completely wrong, but I ignored him. Later I ran into the son again and we got chatting. I explained that this was my hometown and felt obliged to point out that the pigeons were not a medieval social media conduit, but were in fact kept for food. Soon, his father and some others turned up and the son related to his father what I had said. He was livid at being contradicted and said that I was being ridiculous “No one eats pigeons” the idiot declared.

 

In fact, as I could have told him but didn’t, Columba livia domestica or pigeons were the first birds to be domesticated, some 10,000 years ago and they weren’t domesticated so that they could update your current social status. They were domesticated to be easier to catch to be eaten.

 

No doubt, this joker thought I was getting confused with squab, which look like pigeons. Because they are pigeons! At least in the USA, pigeons intended for the table, usually about one month old, are called ‘squab’, merely to disassociate them from the feral city pigeons, which in my view and that of many, are the disease ridden equivalent of flying rats. In the UK, pigeons are called pigeons, table or not, although the term ‘squab’ is known by some. I’m not aware of any duality of terms in the European languages, either, although diminutive suffixes may be added in the case of young birds.

Here in China, there is no differentiation between the table birds and other pigeons, either; they are all generally 鸽子 (gē zi) although it is possible to differentiate should you really need to: the young birds are 乳鸽 (rǔ gē, literally ‘milk pigeons’), a term rarely used. Both are sold in the markets and supermarkets, usually alive to ensure freshness. Not only the young are available. Old birds are also valued.

 

The birds’ offal is also sold separately in supermarkets, so pigeon livers are easily available and, by the way, make a great pâté, not that the Chinese do liver pâté. Gizzard, hearts, etc. can be sought out online. The hearts are a favourite, too

 

Pigeon Hearts

 

The French love pigeons, although there isn’t a great deal of meat on them. What there is, is in the mainly in breasts. The ancient Romans ate pigeons, with the Roman cookbook ascribed to Apicius recommending that they be served with a sweet and sour sauce. The Italians continue eating them until this day.

 

They are also eaten in Egypt and the Magreb countries of Northern Africa, especially Morocco and Algeria, in the form of بسطيلة, pastilla, the meat pie traditionally made with young pigeon, although often replaced by chicken today.

 

Pastilla - Image by drea , licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 2.0 Generic license

 

Several Asian countries besides China eat pigeon, too. Here, the birds themselves are usually roasted and served whole, but in domestic kitchens will normally be deep-fried as few homes have ovens.

 

Roast Pigeon in Cantonese restaurant in Liuzhou

 

Roast pigeons in my home

 

Old birds can be slow braised or are used to make stocks for the ever-popular pigeon soup. This is believed byTCM aficianados to be of medical benefit to those recovering from serious illnesses.

 

Old pigeon used  for stock pot

 

When I was recently de-hospitalised, I was advised to eat pigeon soup and a friend sent me everything I needed (except the pigeons) for the recommended recipe. Luckily, I had a couple in the freezer.

 

Ingredients for medicianal (TCM) pigeon soup.

 

Medicinal (TCM) Pigeon Soup

 

India and Nepal both use pigeons in curries while Indonesia deep fries them with spices and serves them with rice wrapped in banana leaves.

 

And sorry Dad, but the United States eats pigeon too, though admittedly less than it once did. Most of the pigeons sold in the USA today are sold through the various Chinatowns, but they are also served at some upmarket restaurants. The decline in sales is however making it an expensive choice, which leads to further decline.

 

Everywhere the birds are eaten, the viscera, offal and giblets are used in the same ways as that of any other poultry.

 

In some places, including the UK and USA, pigeon can be thought of by some as distasteful because they see the dirty flying rats in the cities. But, commercially raised pigeon is often safer than other poultry as it harbours fewer pathogens. It also has the advantage of being safe to to eat anywhere between medium and well done.

 

Just don’t be trying to catch one when you’re next downtown of an evening.

 

 

There is a duality of terms in Spanish when it came to pigeons. We have the word paloma for pigeons/doves (some doves are called tortolas, like turtle dove, for example), and the word Pichón for the young pigeons (what is normally eaten). In fact, you normally  only see pichón on restaurant menus, and more rarely, "paloma", normally referring to (hunted) woodpigeon.

Edited December 19, 2022 by farcego (log)

[Tropicalsenior]

24 minutes ago, farcego said:

I would understand "menudos" by context.

Thank you. I'm glad that it makes sense to you. Costa Rica has so many strange words for things that it is said that you learn Spanish and then you have to come to Costa Rica and learn Costa Rican.

[Tropicalsenior]

3 minutes ago, farcego said:

There is a duality of terms in Spanish when it came to pigeons

Kind of like the duality of the word for fish. When it is alive it is pez, and when it is prepared to eat it is pescado, in other words, dead fish.

[Katie Meadow]

If anyone thinks wild pigeons are not tasty, they need only look to the sad demise of the Passenger Pigeon in North America. We literally ate them out of existence. They were free. They were easy to net or shoot because their numbers were so great.  They have been extinct for 100 years.

[heidih]

@KennethT Oh my I now have you to thank for a clear visual image of elderly Chinese folks chasing pidgeons in parks! My prior romantic embedded image was the flock a guy would release that flew over the 110 freeway on my way to work. Leader bird was white. Very acrobatic bunch. My aerial area https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1989-10-12-hl-252-story.html

Edited December 19, 2022 by heidih (log)

[MaryIsobel]

1 hour ago, Tropicalsenior said:

Thank you. I'm glad that it makes sense to you. Costa Rica has so many strange words for things that it is said that you learn Spanish and then you have to come to Costa Rica and learn Costa Rican.

Very true. My little bit of Spanish which I tried to use in Costa Rica was usually met with the person I was speaking to switching to whatever English they had! Ticos are a gracious bunch.

[liuzhou]

4 hours ago, Tropicalsenior said:

Very interesting, thank you. In Costa Rica, any part of the chicken that isn't meat is called menudos. That includes the head the feet and all the viscera. I'm not sure about other animals because I've just heard them called by the name of the individual organs. The word menudo has many meanings and of course the one that we know the most is the popular soup of Mexico. It was the favorite soup of my husband's and I used to make it all the time for him. It only passed my lips once and that was one time too many.

 

The  animal parts you mention would be covered by 'offal', the bits cut off before selling the flesh.

[liuzhou]

4 hours ago, Anna N said:

Where do doves fit in here?

 

Generally doves are slightly smaller than pigeons, but many of the  300+ varieties of doves and pigeons can be called either. Both are descended from rock doves or rock pigeons (alternative name for the same species). For all practical purposes, they are the same thing.

Edited December 19, 2022 by liuzhou (log)

[liuzhou]

4 hours ago, farcego said:

Maybe just the equivalent to offal.

 

Yes, I'd say so.

[liuzhou]

Roast Duck Illustration from Mrs Beeton's Cookbook - Public Domain

 

Having all but exhausted the parts of a bird that naturally fit into this topic, this is probably the last instalment.

 

Brains are a popular protein but there is a reason why we talk of people being ‘bird brains’. They are tiny. But then so are the brains of shrimp, but they are delicious. I think there is an accessibility problem. Biting into the shrimps’ heads is the best part for me; biting into a chicken’s head holds no appeal. No, when it comes to brains, I’ll stick with pig.

 

The other popular and delicious offal I think of is bone marrow. While chicken and duck carcasses make excellent stocks, they aren’t exactly rich in marrow. But turkeys are, yet 90% of turkey marrow goes to dog food. A bone broth made from the turkey remains should be compulsory; after all the bird is worthless! I’m convinced the only reason they are popular at Christmas or Thanksgiving is that they are big enough to feed a large gathering. No one, surely, eats turkey for its great flavour and moist meat! Anyway, turkeys are rarer than hen’s teeth here.

Goose, on the other hand, is delicious beyond belief, but its yield is low. 香港烤鹅 (xiāng gǎng kǎo é),  Hong Kong roast goose is a thing of deep joy. But I don’t remember anyone making broth from the carcass. From the giblets including neck, yes.

 

So, that leaves me only one thing, not usually considered viscera or offal or giblets, but definitely from inside the birds. I’m talking fat. And you've never heard of anyone rendering turkey fat for its gourmet value, have you?

 

Most modern supermarket chickens have been bred to be fat free and their lifestyle and early death gives them no time to develop much, anyway. Get a fat old layer and you’ve got a different story. The 鸡油 (jī yóu)， chicken fat can be rendered as schmaltz and used to great effect in many dishes, or simply used to fry some bread. Delicious with a sprinkling of sea salt.

 

But it is 鸭油 (yā yóu), duck fat that is the prince, while 鹅油 (é yóu), goose fat is surely king. I am meticulous about rendering any duck fat that passes my way. It has a high smoke point of around 190 ℃ / 375℉ (as does goose fat) and lasts for months in the fridge or at least it would if I didn’t use it so often!

 

Rendering duck fat from collected scraps

 

Newly rendered duck fat

 

Chilled duck fat from my fridge

 

Obviously, you will need duck fat to make your confit duck, but is there a better way to fry potatoes or make roast potatoes (I refuse to call them roasties – I’m an adult!) than using duck fat? Well, yes there is, but using duck fat is second best, heir-to-throne stuff. (Come to think of it, you could also use it to make Yorkies! If you are going to be so non-traditional not to call them by their proper name, why not go the whole hog and do them in duck fat rather than the beef fat used in Yorkshire?).

 

Pork tenderloin steak with duck fat sautéed mushrooms and duck fat roast potatoes

 

Mushrooms taste richer sautéed in duck or goose fat as do Brussels sprouts. In fact, most vegetables do. A grilled cheese sandwich is raised to another level if the bread is spread with duck or goose fat before grilling. Egg fried rice fried in duck fat is also a wonder to taste. Be sure to use duck eggs, while you are there! Or use goose fat and goose eggs if you have a lot of mouths to feed.

 

Goose fat fried rice with goose liver

 

I’m told that duck fat is good for popping popc⊘rn, but obviously I don’t go there!

 

Goose fat, whether you render it yourself (you should if you have a passing goose) or bought in the pots sometimes available in supermarkets, can be used just like butter and is an ideal and healthy frying medium. My French grandmother used little else in her kitchen.

 

Edited October 6 by liuzhou (log)

[KennethT]

5 hours ago, liuzhou said:

Goose fat, ....  is an ideal and healthy frying medium.

 

Healthy?  Really?  If this were true I'd be the happiest guy in the world!

[Arey]

14 hours ago, Anna N said:

Where do doves fit in here?  I know @Shelbycooks them, and they belong to the same faemily as pigeons. Are any domesticated or only hunted?

.Both doves and pigeons are members of  the family columbidae and the rock dove is not the father of the family. The use of the terms dove and pidgeon is  not based on Linnaean classification. The Mourning Dove could be called a Mourning Pigeon, and  the Passenger Pigeon a Passenger Dove but you'll never check those names off on your birding Life List. 

 

[liuzhou]

18 minutes ago, Arey said:

Both doves and pigeons are members of  the family columbidae and the rock dove is not the father of the family.

 

The claim is not that rock doves/pigeons are the father of the entire Columbidae family, but that the domestic (and feral pigeon) is descended from the rock dove/pigeon. This is stated by several authorities.

Edited December 19, 2022 by liuzhou (log)

[heidih]

Its Hanukkah time and latke variations everywhere. Whole lot of Schmaltz going on. Even my mainstream market Kroger/Ralphs always has it in the Kosher section, and more recently also with the general cooking fats. Duck on shelf too. I had a family friend who cooked goose often and  hoarded the fat. When my mom roasted poultry he snuck up behind her and generously dipped bread into the gold.

[kayb]

On 12/11/2022 at 8:59 PM, liuzhou said:

Perhaps the most divisive ‘nose-to-tail’ part of poultry is a part which many people find repulsive, yet many have eaten unawares, albeit probably not from poultry.

 

Chicken Intestines

 

I’m talking intestines which, of course, have been used as natural sausage casings for centuries*. Poultry intestines aren’t normally used in this way but are very popular in parts of the world.

 

In China, a spicy Chongqing hotpot is incomplete without having some intestines to drop in to quickly cook. Chicken or duck are common but most highly prized are 鹅肠 (é cháng), goose intestines, which in some birds can be as much as three metres / nine feet long. Intestines are also stir-fried with soy sauce. Poultry intestines can be hard to avoid in Hong Kong.

 

Goose Intestines

 

Across SE Asia, poultry intestines are valued highly. Marinated and fried chicken intestines are used in the Philippines for a dish known as ‘Adobong Isaw ng Manok’, or just ‘isaw’, for example.

 

In South Africa, grilled intestines are often part of a braai, or barbecue. Alternatively, they can be curried as ‘curry malana’. Recipe here.

 

Of course, the Southern States in America have their chitterlings or chitlins, but do they also eat poultry intestines?

 

Of course, given the intestines function in the bird, correct and careful preparation is required. The tubes have to be thoroughly cleaned. Squeezing hem between the finger tips can remove the bulk of any waste, but then people get inventive. There are those who destroy their coat hangers to improvise tools to push out any unwanted material. Others fashion mini hoses to wash away the detritus. Many, including me cut the things open and clean under running water. A pair of scissors will do the job, or you can buy these dedicated tools to slit open the guts.

 

Intestine Cutters

 

The Chinese for ‘sausage’ is 腊肠 () which literally means ‘cured intestine’.

!Nope. Not eating poultry chit’lings.

[Anna N]

7 hours ago, KennethT said:

Healthy?  Really?  If this were true I'd be the happiest guy in the world!

Seems there has been a re-think. Hard to find a reliable citation but my understanding is that goose fat falls between olive oil and butter in terms of healthy fats. You wouldn’t want to drink it by the glass but in moderation…

[liuzhou]

Goose fat is high in fatty acids such as omega-3, contains essential trace elements such as copper, selenium and magnesium and is rich in the B vitamins and vitamin E.

[Susanwusan]

On reading that the UK government wants to remove the ban on importing foie gras, I can't help wondering why there isn't another way of fattening the goose liver, something  like super-calorific food?

[liuzhou]

On 2/6/2023 at 2:58 AM, Susanwusan said:

On reading that the UK government wants to remove the ban on importing foie gras, I can't help wondering why there isn't another way of fattening the goose liver, something  like super-calorific food?

 

There is.

 

There is non-gavage foie gras. I am having difficulty accessing websites outside China right now, but a Google search for 'non-gavage foie gras' will probably clarify.

 

Here is one article about non-gavage foie gras production in Spain. I also remember reading a lot in French like this one.

 

The problem is that the production capacity of non-gavage foie gras is still much lower than the demand (and that will probably make it more expensive than it already is where it is sold).

Beware the idiots marketing vegetable based alternatives, sometimes labelled faux gras.

I have some traditionally produced French foie gras in the freezer and feel no guilt!

 

China has been producing foie gras for about a decade and while still behind France in output, is rapidly catching up. Most of that is gavage produced though. They are now the largest caviar producers in the world and are trying to dominate the entire luxury food supply chain. They'll probably manage.

 

 

Edited February 8, 2023 by liuzhou (log)