Shanghai Restaurant Sexism

[liuzhou]

Shanghai’s upscale Da Vittorio brings back outdated ‘ladies’ menu’

I can't say this surprises me. China is very sexist despite Mao allegedly saying "Women hold up half the sky", so they maybe thought they would get away with it.

 

Edited April 23, 2021 by liuzhou (log)

[TdeV]

Sigh.

[gfweb]

Plenty of private clubs do this for the member when he has guests.

[rotuts]

@gfweb 

 

I don't think Im a sexist , and Im sure Im out of date on several items :

 

SocialMedia ( a disease )  etc

 

if a club is private , members dictate policy.

 

if a member ( either gender ) wanted to treat guests

 

any gender

 

w a menu that had no prices , I dont see any problem at all.

 

to the member , who is paying I suppose , it might suggest 

 

to the guests , ' Please help your self '

 

now , the Wine List :

 

far more problematic.

 

the member is the only one that gets it

 

but then discusses w the guests their preferences 

 

and then matches the wines w the meal.

 

I have no problem w that at all.

 

note :  gender neutral .

 

of course , the member would have the option

 

of standard menus for all.

 

it would be noted on the members ' preference list '

 

and thus be automatic.

 

 

Edited April 24, 2021 by rotuts (log)

[liuzhou]

18 minutes ago, rotuts said:

 

if a club is private , members dictate policy.

 

That depends on the locality. Different legislatures disagree. In some, discrimination on grounds of gender, race or sexuality can be illegal even in private clubs.

 

But this is totally irrelevant in the case under discussion. It is a restaurant open to the public and not a private club.

 

[rotuts]

Sooo many apologies :

 

I should have said

 

" members dictate menu policies ""

 

Its possible some #R_O#$Y%  politician might raise issue w this menu policy

 

but I was responding to @gfweb 

 

 and I tried to indicate gender neutrality was a  feature

 

all guests would be treated the same by the member.

 

and members had a choice and choice is not the same as discrimination.

[Anna N]

While the idea of ladies’ menus raises my hackles, the concept of guest menus without pricing seems not quite so out of place. I don’t know how much to trust my memory on this but I do believe the faculty club of my University offered menus without prices to guests. 

[Steve R.]

I always hated going to restaurants with my ex-in-laws in the 70’s when only my father in law got menus with prices.  It really hindered my ability to order all the most expensive items. 😇

[Margaret Pilgrim]

I find it rather amusing.    Anytime someone wants to wine and dine me without straining my conscience, it's alright with me.    Seriously, it is standard at private clubs.   The host receives the priced menu, guests not.    No problem.   Treat your host the same at your club...or in your home,where you certainly don't price what you serve at dinner parties.

[Katie Meadow]

5 hours ago, Steve R. said:

I always hated going to restaurants with my ex-in-laws in the 70’s when only my father in law got menus with prices.  It really hindered my ability to order all the most expensive items. 😇

Lobster is usually a safe bet, no?

[liuzhou]

31 minutes ago, Margaret Pilgrim said:

Seriously, it is standard at private clubs.

 

As I've already pointed out, that depends where you are. Also, the place we are talking about is not a private club, but a public restaurant open to all with the wherewithal to pay.

Assuming that a man must be the host is a gender-based assumption and by definition, sexist.

[Katie Meadow]

Okay, the whole thing about the menus without prices is pretty silly. I would not have guessed that still happens when there isn't a clear host, but what do I know? I don't dine in clubs or anywhere that might still be a thing.

 

If you want to talk sexism in dining and restaurant life there are far more egregious crimes.

[Margaret Pilgrim]

3 minutes ago, liuzhou said:

 

As I've already pointed out, that depends where you are. Also, the place we are talking about is not a private club, but a public restaurant open to all with the wherewithal to pay.

Assuming that a man must be the host is a gender-based assumption and by definition, sexist.

The assumption that a man is the host is not uncommon.   Usually the person holding the reservation will be assumed the host.    I've found that it's a simple matter to advise the house that you, a woman, are the table's host.    A smile and simple statement.    No problem if handled simply and with assurance.  

 

 

[weinoo]

9 hours ago, Margaret Pilgrim said:

or in your home, where you certainly don't price what you serve at dinner parties.

 

Oh, that's what was wrong!

 

I prefer menus that only show prices.  And you have to guess what you're getting, for say...$24.

[liamsaunt]

I would be annoyed if I was given a menu without prices, unless it was a prix fixe dinner.  That said, I have not seen a menu without prices in a long time.  I do remember being given one at a restaurant in Montreal, but that was about 20 years ago.  I made my husband let me look at his menu so I could see how much everything cost before ordering.  I was not paying, but it was the principle of the thing.    I was glad he let me look because some of the dishes had ridiculous upcharges. (I specifically remember a $20 upcharge for hollandaise sauce on a fish dish).

[Katie Meadow]

6 hours ago, weinoo said:

 

Oh, that's what was wrong!

 

I prefer menus that only show prices.  And you have to guess what you're getting, for say...$24.

A. Assorted organ meats with accompanying pictures of the animals

B. Tilapia on a bed of sand

C. Vegetarian Meatloaf

D. Savory King Cake 

E. Six live jumbo crawfish and a candle

F. Foam

 

Edited April 25, 2021 by Katie Meadow (log)

[Katie Meadow]

15 hours ago, Margaret Pilgrim said:

The assumption that a man is the host is not uncommon.   Usually the person holding the reservation will be assumed the host.    I've found that it's a simple matter to advise the house that you, a woman, are the table's host.    A smile and simple statement.    No problem if handled simply and with assurance.  

 

 

And you have actually seen this in SF? I can't imagine a restaurant in the Bay Area giving out different menus.

[rotuts]

@weinoo 

 

""  you have to guess what you're getting, for say...$24. "'

 

not that much in NYC Id guess

 

pla see:

 

@Katie Meadow 

 

previous post

 

better hope for the '' Foam ""

 

after all

 

it might be made w NYC water.

Edited April 25, 2021 by rotuts (log)

[Margaret Pilgrim]

2 hours ago, Katie Meadow said:

And you have actually seen this in SF? I can't imagine a restaurant in the Bay Area giving out different menus.

In.clubs.    But wine lists often present similar situations when they are handed to the seemingly Alpha male.

[Shelby]

I haven't been out to eat in like 100 years, but not seeing the prices would really bother me because I would be horribly embarrassed if I happened to order something ridiculously expensive.  Doesn't matter if it was just Ronnie and I or someone was hosting us.

 

Edited to say there is no way in hell Ronnie would take us to such a place that didn't show prices 🤣

Edited April 25, 2021 by Shelby (log)

[JeanneCake]

What would happen in the Chinese restaurant if two women, unaccompanied by a man/men, came in?  Would the restaurant give them both price-free (I wanted to say price-less !) menus?  I'm genuinely curious.  And if two  men came in, do they both get menus with prices?  Are they making a distinction based on gender or by their definition, that a man is always the host?

[Margaret Pilgrim]

They could judge by perceived age.    I have been amused when dining abroad at a mixed table of strangers who there is at some early point a ballet as they parse who should be granted privileges of age.    "Non, non, Madam, apres vous!"  "Non, non, apres vous1"    😁

[teonzo]

This is still regular in Italy, so I'm not surprised it happened in an Italian restaurant in China. I'm a bit surprised it happened at Da Vittorio, those guys should know how to adapt to foreign markets.
Best way to deal with this custom is saying something like this when paying the bill: "by law you are required to show prices, so if the lady menu had no prices then it means all her food came for free".

 

 

 

Teo

 

[liuzhou]

5 hours ago, teonzo said:

"by law you are required to show prices, so if the lady menu had no prices then it means all her food came for free"

 

Unfortunately, there is no such law in China.

[Eatmywords]

Interesting they would opt for this given gender equality (even in China?) is such the hot topic.  Do they actually call it a 'ladies' menu'? They could avoid some negativity if they called it 'guest menu' and asked the reservation maker (assuming required in this fancy joint) if they'd like the menu option.