New All-Metal Induction Hotplate from Panasonic

[boilsover]

On the heels of the thread about the Polyscience/Breville ControlFreak, it appears all-metal induction hobs have now arrived in USA.

 

The Panasonic KY-MK3500 is a 208/220v single phase hotplate that should operate on any home circuit that is wired for coil or radiant ranges.  It is rated to 3500 Watts at the "old" 24kHz frequency (ferromagnetic pans), and 2500 Watts at the 90kHz frequency chosen for aluminum and copper, and switches automatically between the two.  Panasonic claims its temperature settings and IR sensors operate through the solid glass rather than by a button probe or thermistor mounted on the underside of the glass.  There is also a lighted ring around the hob to indicate operation and high temperature.

 

https://shop.panasonic.com/support-only/KY-MK3500.html

 

The unit retails for an average of $2,400, but one retailer was offering it for only $611, so I ordered one.  https://www.ckitchen.com/p/panasonic-ky-mk3500-met-all-induction-range.html

Edit:  I now see it is listed at $1,700!  Amazon has it at $2,250.

 

See, also:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQjP3E8aB4A

 

[Kerry Beal]

Can't tell from looking - is it just a hob or an entire stove top?

 

[FauxPas]

6 minutes ago, Kerry Beal said:

Can't tell from looking - is it just a hob or an entire stove top?

 

The dimensions in the second link provided up above show 14 x 6 x 16 inches, so I'm thinking it's a hob. 

 

 

[Kerry Beal]

Think I got distracted by the name 'range'.

[FauxPas]

3 hours ago, boilsover said:

The Panasonic KY-MK3500 is a 208/220v single phase hotplate that should operate on any home circuit that is wired for coil or radiant ranges. 

 

I assume this cannot be plugged in to a regular countertop outlet. It would seem odd to me to use a higher amperage outlet just for a hob rather than a full cooktop or range. But I can see the appeal of an all-metal induction range for someone like yourself who really loves their copper. 

 

Surprised to see you springing hundreds of dollars for any type of induction though, you seemed pretty negative about them.  

[boilsover]

14 hours ago, FauxPas said:

 

I assume this cannot be plugged in to a regular countertop outlet. It would seem odd to me to use a higher amperage outlet just for a hob rather than a full cooktop or range. But I can see the appeal of an all-metal induction range for someone like yourself who really loves their copper. 

 

Surprised to see you springing hundreds of dollars for any type of induction though, you seemed pretty negative about them.  

 

Yes, it will require a different plug/receptacle.  That makes sense, when you consider that the most powerful induction hotplates wired for 110VAC are only 1800W output.  High-performance home induction ranges offer greater power, up to the 3500W max of this hotplate.  Similarly, most home coil ranges are around 2400W output.  So this unit offers equivalent power to commercial gas hobs, in a hotplate format.

 

I managed to get someone else to pay for this unit.  We will be using it in the development of hyperconductive cookware, since we can now induce aluminum and copper prototypes and comparators.

[FauxPas]

1 hour ago, boilsover said:

I managed to get someone else to pay for this unit. 

 

That is always the best way!   

[weedy]

happy that you'll get to see what you've been missing 😎

[paulraphael]

Cool to see this. Too bad that you sacrifice 30% of the max power when you use non-ferrous pans. I'll guess that this is due to some fundamental physics and not an engineering compromise ... anyone know?

 

A workaround would be to use ferrous pans for the high-heat stuff, like searing and boiling pasta water. 2500 watts should be more than enough for saucemaking. 

[quiet1]

I am quite intrigued by the idea of an induction range that could handle all pans.

 

That said, the biggest drawback for me is the number of burners, which is related to the available power in a house, so it seems likely anyone will do anything to fix that anytime soon. (I mean, I'd be willing to pay for an extra high-power outlet in my kitchen so I could plug the range in twice, but I'm probably weird.)

[dtremit]

On 11/5/2018 at 2:15 AM, quiet1 said:

I am quite intrigued by the idea of an induction range that could handle all pans.

 

That said, the biggest drawback for me is the number of burners, which is related to the available power in a house, so it seems likely anyone will do anything to fix that anytime soon. (I mean, I'd be willing to pay for an extra high-power outlet in my kitchen so I could plug the range in twice, but I'm probably weird.)

 

This is designed for commercial kitchens -- and this single-burner format is very common for restaurant use. They can be moved around and put where they're needed. Likewise, most commercial kitchens use 208v/240v for larger appliances. I wouldn't read too many limitations into the design.

 

A typical breaker for a home range is 50A @ 240v, which theoretically gets you 12kW -- though in practice most cooktops are limited to a bit under 11kW.

 

As an example, the center burner on this Samsung cooktop is 3.6kW, same as the Panasonic, but the total wattage is 10.8kW.

 

 

[quiet1]

30 minutes ago, dtremit said:

 

This is designed for commercial kitchens -- and this single-burner format is very common for restaurant use. They can be moved around and put where they're needed. Likewise, most commercial kitchens use 208v/240v for larger appliances. I wouldn't read too many limitations into the design.

 

A typical breaker for a home range is 50A @ 240v, which theoretically gets you 12kW -- though in practice most cooktops are limited to a bit under 11kW.

 

As an example, the center burner on this Samsung cooktop is 3.6kW, same as the Panasonic, but the total wattage is 10.8kW.

 

 

 

Oh, sorry, I meant in general. The main reason we don't have an induction range at home is the number of burners issue. I tend to cook multiple meals at once so I run out of space on a 4-5 burner cooktop and we don't have the counter space to have a lot of extra burners sitting out. So right now we have a gas range and I do have a single stand-alone induction unit that I can move around and only have out when I need it.

[boilsover]

On 10/9/2018 at 10:19 PM, weedy said:

happy that you'll get to see what you've been missing 😎

 

LOL, I haven't been missing anything.  I've been cooking on induction off and on for a couple of years now.  IMO, until now, choosing induction has precluded using the very best cookware.  Gas may still be a better mode, but at least there's no longer a reason to compromise with--or discard--cookware.  

[boilsover]

On 10/19/2018 at 9:35 PM, paulraphael said:

Cool to see this. Too bad that you sacrifice 30% of the max power when you use non-ferrous pans. I'll guess that this is due to some fundamental physics and not an engineering compromise ... anyone know? 

 

I'll ask, but my own guess is the power limitation at the 90kHz (non-ferromagnetic) frequency has to do with safety.

[haresfur]

13 hours ago, boilsover said:

 

LOL, I haven't been missing anything.  I've been cooking on induction off and on for a couple of years now.  IMO, until now, choosing induction has precluded using the very best cookware.  Gas may still be a better mode, but at least there's no longer a reason to compromise with--or discard--cookware.  

 

unless you cook with clay 😉

[Anna N]

3 hours ago, haresfur said:

 

unless you cook with clay 😉

 Even that can be done.  Click  And if you are willing to give up the very reason to use induction in the first place, efficiency, then there are metal interface plates that you can use between the induction surface and the pot.   Hardly worth the effort but it can be done.  Click  (scroll down for discussion of induction ready donabes). 

[haresfur]

Yeah, I know you can use a metal plate. It actually will still be quite efficient - similar to heating the bottom of a pot, but there will be some heat loss. I thought about it for my new range but am going with gas.

[cdh]

Does anybody have a reference to a paper on how this  actually works?  I understand shaking magnetic stuff with magnetic fields and using that to make heat.  I don't understand how magnetic field oscillation could possibly heat up non-magnetic stuff. 

Edited November 16, 2018 by cdh (log)

[boilsover]

13 hours ago, Anna N said:

[T]here are metal interface plates that you can use between the induction surface and the pot.   Hardly worth the effort but it can be done.

 

Yes, the interface disks work--after a fashion.  Using them emulates sitting the pot on an AGA,  solid top or placque.

 

The loss in efficiency is an overblown disadvantage, IMO.  The big problem is that the interface plates don't play well with induction hobs' electronics--you run a real risk of overheating and CATO-ing the appliance.  And of course you're reduced to moving the pan in order to quickly reduce the heat, as with a solid top.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

I have lusted after a donabe but everything I have read till now says to use them only over gas.  Though I have questioned this as people have probably been cooking in a donabe long before Japan or the rest of the world had cooking gas.

 

Any thoughts on using a donabe with induction or with a solid top?  And yes, I do love The Japan Times.

 

[btbyrd]

Induction interface plates are garbage. I guess they're an option if that's your only option, but don't let that be your only option. 

 

People were using donabes before they had gas, but they were cooking over wood fires or charcoal. They weren't using induction or ceramic cooktops. The good news is that Iwatani butane burners are dirt cheap.

[dtremit]

11 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

Any thoughts on using a donabe with induction or with a solid top?  And yes, I do love The Japan Times.

 

 

There do exist induction compatible donabes -- not shocking, I guess, given the huge popularity of induction in Japan. This attractive but pricey one is readily available in the US:

 

Kinto Kakomi IH Donabe

 

There are many more (at lower price points) on amazon.co.jp but I'm not sure how you'd get them here. 

 

Some of them appear to use some kind of special ceramic that reacts to induction (maybe with high iron content?). Others like this one seem to use a metal insert *inside* the pot, presumably with a thinner/flatter bottom than traditional donabe.

 

My guess is the efficiency isn't amazing, but for the low/slow cooking style of a donabe it may not matter.

 

No experience with any of these myself -- just was fascinated by your question!

Edited November 16, 2018 by dtremit (log)

[weinoo]

On 11/16/2018 at 6:34 AM, btbyrd said:

Induction interface plates are garbage. I guess they're an option if that's your only option, but don't let that be your only option. 

 

People were using donabes before they had gas, but they were cooking over wood fires or charcoal. They weren't using induction or ceramic cooktops. The good news is that Iwatani butane burners are dirt cheap.

 

So after dinner at Single Thread Restaurant, and receiving the Donabe cooking cookbook as a gift, I am a little hooked. And have ordered a Japanese donabe pot, as well as an Iwatani stove.

 

Of course, the instructions scream at you not to use it inside. 

 

But...the cookbook says that's what you need to be able to cook on a donabe at the table.

 

So...what's a reasonable person to do?

[gfweb]

19 minutes ago, weinoo said:

 

 

Of course, the instructions scream at you not to use it inside. 

 

 

So...what's a reasonable person to do?

Open a window

[btbyrd]

Or not. It's no different than using a burner on a gas range indoors, and nobody freaks out about that (with the exception of high end ranges that need makeup ventilation). I use both of my Iwatani burners indoors all the time and have yet to die. They're essentially built to be used indoors, despite the paperwork boilerplate warning. Hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of Japanese and Korean cooks use as their primary indoor burners. I wouldn't use one in a tiny airtight space, but in the context of a normal American home, it's not really an issue. Of course, you're in NYC... so the admonition to open a window is wise.