The Bread Topic (2014 –2015)

Anna N · June 6, 2015

It does look like a very sad little loaf of bread but looks can be deceiving.

There has been discussion of late of bread machines and of bread machine recipes. I have had a Zoji for quite a number of years. It is an old old model that I got at a garage sale for $10 and had to buy the paddle for it. It has been gathering dust in the basement but today I decided to dig it out.

I had to search online for a manual and recipes but Zojirushi came up with both. This particular bread is the dry milk half loaf.

Why I really wanted to try out the bread machine was to test out Andie's (member andiesenji) method of removing the paddle before the final baking. It worked well although I suspect that I should have shaped the dough just a little before returning it and that might have given me a slightly less lopsided loaf. As you can see there is still a small hole where it sits on the "axle". This tiny hole is much more acceptable than the crater left by the paddle.

From a taste and texture point of view the bread was more than acceptable. It is after all fluffy white sandwich bread.

I know rotuts is a great fan of the bread machine so I hope he finds his way over to this topic.

rotuts · June 6, 2015

well it suits me for what Ive already posted.

I hope for a 'cut and paste'

my sunbeam does all I want and < 2 min work for each loaf

lets wait and see.

should you go to KAFlour and look up their bread machine Rx's

http://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes/bread/bread-machine

make sure you weigh your stuff and keep a slim record on the wet / dry ratio.

Anna N · June 6, 2015

well it suits me for what Ive already posted.

I hope for a 'cut and paste'

my sunbeam does all I want and < 2 min work for each loaf

lets wait and see.

should you go to KAFlour and look up their bread machine Rx's

http://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes/bread/bread-machine

make sure you weigh your stuff and keep a slim record on the wet / dry ratio.

rotuts,

I am not sure what you mean by a cut and paste.

I may try a loaf of pumpernickel or perhaps rye in the machine but I suspect it will soon find its way back into the basement. Thank heaven we are all different!

rotuts · June 6, 2015

Ive posted on 'another' bread machine topic and I hope to 'paste' that info here and in the newer bread machine topic.

the bread machine, with some thought and Rx care and understanding the machines limits will get you

easy and stunning very fresh bread for toast and sandwiches. your leftovers, you 'cuisinart' into crumbs for your local birds, as

there might be a 'fresh' loaf in the 'cooker'

rotuts · June 6, 2015

here it is : ( kudos to smithy !)

I have a bread machine and use it extensively. if you can manage to find one at a 'used' store cheaply, go ahead and try it.

people get rid of them all the time because they are not careful with their measurements. you have to be and keep track using one Rx

Why ? no matter how many buttons and 'programs' the machine has it is fixed in the various times and volume and baking time. there are sl variations of these

now days, but the amount of 'dry' and the volume of wet matter in the final loaf due to these limitations. you also must get a kitchen scale and weigh everyting

its actually quite easy to do.

BB&B has nice scales for < 25 bucks 20 % off too ! I get terrific toasting and sandwich bread out of mine all the time w a prep time of < 2 minutes.

I happen to have the Sunbeam now about 66 at amazon. it was 55 when I got it. I would not pay more than what the sunbeams costs now

you won't get the flexibility they claim.

I 'bake' a 1.5 lb loaf ( 1/4 white whole wheat 1/4 rye 1/2 white TJ's flour, water, yeast, salt, vital wheat gluten ) on the 2 lb setting " French " and dark.

its not an impressive looking loaf, there are pic somewhere on the bread topic, but I cant buy toasting nor sandwich bread this good. I bake often and if there are

leftovers I pass them through the cuisinart to make breadcrumbs and donate them to the local birds.

there are a few caveats : do not scratch the pan nor the mixing blade nor poke anything in the pan to get the loaf out you will ruin the thin

non-stick coating and make each subsequent loaf harder to get out and have to buy the pan/blade as a replacement which is 1/2 the cost

if you pic up a used one take a look at the pan and blade and if they are scratched, which they might be its going to be difficult to get the loaf out.

Go to

http://www.kingarthu...CFQgXHwodjiQAmg

for your Rx's and SAF instant yeast.

http://www.amazon.co...sl_21uicw9m6g_b

mine

http://www.amazon.co...hines at amazon

probably similar

http://www.amazon.co...ding=UTF8&psc=1

anyway the reason so many get given away is people don't understand the machines limits which are quite real l and don't pay attentions to the 'mix'

too much water or not enough water based on 'dry' amount you get a pretty crummy loaf.

go for it !

here are my standard loaf :

this bread when fresh, and its so easy to make its always fresh, in the cuisinart steam oven for toast is to die for

( also known as the CSB )

the point is to get home made bread in the toaster or sliced for your sandwich. this bread also makes fantastic croutons.

you can do this w < 2 minutes of your time ( 3.5 hours in the machine and you don't want to leave it in there ! )

or do it all by hand if thats something you enjoy doing.

BTW if you prefer to call this bread " manufactured " you go right ahead. :raz:

doesn't matter to the bread, the toast, nor the sandwich as far as i can tell.

BTW the reason there are two 'holes' in the cut top is sometimes the top is not that even

delicious hot though with butter and marmalade.

the two pics are two different loafs from the same Rx

Edited June 6, 2015 by rotuts (log)

rotuts · June 6, 2015

remember this is massively better than any bread you can buy on the Grocery Bread isle

cheaper fresher and what ever you want it to be in < 2 minutes work

after you pay a bit of attention to the details of the machines wet/dry ration, extraction etc

this is just my Personal Loaf.

should you review the KAFour machine Rx's you can make one that suits you.

rotuts · June 6, 2015

this is the stuff I used to make : retarded sour dough 6 loafs each Sat. and 6 loafs in the plastic containers ( individual ) for the next Sat :

stunning this was.

crumb a bit dense but outstanding toast

didn't have a CSB then ....

just remember what you see here is very different from what you see 2 posts up

both have there place. both are outstanding for their purposes.

Im inspired to try to bake ' free form ' bread on my Yoder pellet smoker when it arrives

Ive mentioned Im usually 6 M out of Phase season wise

can't imagine baking bread here i9n NE when it its 90 and 90

but ive done the Toast/Sandwish in the sunbeam outside many many times in the summer

its a bit bulky but light. you just have to check for thunderstorms for the 3.5.hour bake

Edited June 6, 2015 by rotuts (log)

bethesdabakers · June 8, 2015

Here is the other recipe I promised. It is a bit big and I just translated it as it is written, it is from a baking group I know and I have baked with them once.

Knäckebröd
cirka 90 kakor

2 kg wheat flour ( plain flour)

2½ kg of rye, barely or oat flour fine or a mixture of coarse and fine.

500 gram fresh yeast

1 kg of margarine or butter or lard

40 gram of fennel and aniseed or cumin and dill seeds or a what ever you like
100 ml sugar

50 ml of salt

About 4 litre of water or beer or apple juice or milk

2 kg of wheat flour ( plain flour)

Melt the fat and add 2 litre of water and heat to finger warmth, heat the rest of the water to the same heat. Add the yeast to the butter/water and stir until dissolved.

In a large kneading trough add the dry ingredients, knead in the water/fat/ yeast first and then add the rest of the water so you have a firm dough. Rise for 20- 30 min in a warm place . Then knead in more flour until you have a dough that can be easily rolled with a rolling pin, holds it shape and can be lifted. Divided the dough into 90 balls, roll out every one to about tablecloth thickness then roll with a textured rolling pin or stab with a fork. Remove a hole in the middle of hanging. Rise for 10 minutes some where warm and bake at 250 C in a old fashion stone oven or in a normal oven for 5 min. Leave to cool on a rack.
You need at least 4 people to do this.

According to one person this can be made with just rye or barely but I never done it.

Finally got round to trying your recipe, CatPoet. I adapted it to sourdough rye and smaller quantities using wholemeal rye, rye starter at 100% hydration and Guinness like this:

Wholemeal Rye 520g 100%

Guinness 181g 35.9%

Rye Starter 220g 42.3%

Butter 74g 14.5%

Salt 8g 1.5%

Sesame Seed 22g 4.2%

Rubbed the butter into the flour, made up the dough. Scaled at 50g, rolled out the disks very thin, cut round a pudding basin - at 6.5 inches, smaller than traditional I think. Baked at 250C for about 6 minutes.

Thanks

Mick

Anna N · June 8, 2015

Since I had dragged the bread machine up from the basement, no small feat for me, I thought I might as well use it. I already had a Ken Forkish no-knead boule just beginning its five-hour bulk ferment so most of the ingredients and equipment were already on my counter. I chose a very well reviewed recipe from the King Arthur Flour site. I used their very convenient converter to get quantities in grams, weighed them into the pan and selected the dough cycle. I shaped the loaf, put it into a bread pan and baked it at 350°F for 30 minutes. The result is a very respectable loaf of sandwich bread.

bethesdabakers · June 9, 2015

Did you know that mîche is French slang for buttocks?

Two points (he said smugly): who needs commercial yeast?; you won't get one of them out of a bread machine.

Mick

Anna N · June 9, 2015

...
Did you know that mîche is French slang for buttocks?

Two points (he said smugly): who needs commercial yeast?; you won't get one of them out of a bread machine.

Mick

That is a beautiful looking loaf Mick but I take my hat off to anybody who is prepared to make their own bread by machine, by hand, using commercial yeast, kneaded or no-knead. Rarely can anyone make anything worse than what is available in the supermarkets.

bethesdabakers · June 9, 2015

You're absolutely right, Anna. How people make their own bread is up to them, their preferences, abilities, disabilities, etc. and it's almost certain to be better than they can buy.

In some ways that's a sad state of affairs but on the other hand it allows for a whole lot of creativity.

So get baking, people!

Mick

KingofBaguette · June 11, 2015

I'm not going to lie.... I have not takin anyone's advice yet... I still don't measure. I do not know what the exact quantities are for every time I make my particular "baguette style" bread. Some times I nail it dead on, some times it's a total flop!!!! I have not been avoiding any of the challenges given to me... I actually spent the last 2 weeks reading the materials sent to me by some of the forum members. I'm maybe 40% through the 1st one and is probably the most reading I've done in over 20 years.... I hate reading..!!! What's wrong with me?

And look at this ugly just about to go in the oven mess..!!!!

And the result..... [emoji17][emoji17][emoji17][emoji17]

No one to blame but myself.

I should rename myself...... ShameofBaguette

Edited June 11, 2015 by KingofBaguette (log)

JohnT · June 11, 2015

KoB, nothing like a rustic loaf! Now the trick is to cut a slice of your baguette and post a photograph of the slice showing the crumb structure. I have the funny feeling that it may be a bit dense! What is your hydration percentage?

KingofBaguette · June 11, 2015

I'll post a pic as soon as it's cut... The pair was sold to my friend. He will take a pic and send it to me later. As for hydration %. Very high, it's humid here so I'm very thirsty....

KingofBaguette · June 11, 2015

So for the pic of the crumb. Yes it is dense, mind you it is the way I want it to be. However, one of my regular weekly buyers asked me if it's possible to have it less dense and a thicker crust, but keep the same taste.... I dunno....

**ElsieD** · June 11, 2015

KoB, it looks as though the flour is not evenly dispersed or is it the light that makes it look like that?

KingofBaguette · June 11, 2015

Well in my recepie there's a few spices that play with the color, and the pic was taken with a cell phone so that does not help either.

JoNorvelleWalker · June 12, 2015

In my experience that's what the onset of staling looks like. About twenty four hours out of the oven.

**Smithy** · June 15, 2015

Today's sourdough rosemary olive oil breads. I haven't had much time to bake lately, so I split today's batch into a boule, saved for later....

and a batard....

which helped form dinner:

I've been working on proportions as well as technique. In past attempts I've added olive oil and rosemary in separate steps. This time, I mixed the olive oil with the rosemary, let it all steep for a few minutes, then added them to the dough. What a difference! It emphasized the rosemary considerably.

bethesdabakers · June 18, 2015

I bake a few loaves most weeks for Gert a Dutch chef. He changes his menus every week which presents me with interesting challenges to research, improvise (and fake) bread from around the world. My favourite was when I asked him what he was doing the following week and he said the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Where do you start?

Anyway this week he is catering for a group of American tourists who are chomping their way through my baguettes, plus he is providing the food for a promotion in a local book shop for “The Sunlit Night” by an American author Rebecca Dinerstein. Gert furnished me with an uncorrected proof copy of the book and said bread featured quite a lot in it. It’s mainly set in Norway’s Lofoten Islands so I thought I was in for a rye session. But, our hero being the son of a New York Jewish baker, pretty much the only bread mentioned is bialys.

I have never seen a bialy in my life. I consulted Claudia Roden’s “The Book of Jewish Food” and Maggie Glezer’s “A Blessing of Bread” – bialys get a mention but no recipe. Finally found one in “The Cheese Board Collective Works”. (Just remembered, I have a copy of “Confessions of a Jewish Baker” somewhere.)

Made two types, onion and poppy seed and onion and garlic scaled at 80g using my basic white sourdough formula.

Highly subjective opinion of course but they might be better than the book.

Be interested if anyone has more information on bialys and what other toppings are used.

Mick

bethesdabakers · June 18, 2015

(Just remembered, I have a copy of “Confessions of a Jewish Baker” somewhere.)

Of course that should have read "Secrets of a Jewish Baker"

"Confessions of a Jewish Baker" is a totally different genre.

Kerry Beal · June 18, 2015

Of course that should have read "Secrets of a Jewish Baker"
"Confessions of a Jewish Baker" is a totally different genre.

Was going to suggest that one - I recall it does have a recipe for bialys.

Ann_T · June 18, 2015

Hand mixed two batches of dough (750g each) on Tuesday and baked two pizzas and nine mini baguettes.

Mini%20Baguettes%20June%2016th%2C%202015

Perfect size for a meal. Great toasted for breakfast or

Tuna%20Sandwich%20June%2017th%2C%202015-

split lengthwise for sandwiches.

cakewalk · June 18, 2015

I bake a few loaves most weeks for Gert a Dutch chef. He changes his menus every week which presents me with interesting challenges to research, improvise (and fake) bread from around the world. My favourite was when I asked him what he was doing the following week and he said the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Where do you start?
Anyway this week he is catering for a group of American tourists who are chomping their way through my baguettes, plus he is providing the food for a promotion in a local book shop for “The Sunlit Night” by an American author Rebecca Dinerstein. Gert furnished me with an uncorrected proof copy of the book and said bread featured quite a lot in it. It’s mainly set in Norway’s Lofoten Islands so I thought I was in for a rye session. But, our hero being the son of a New York Jewish baker, pretty much the only bread mentioned is bialys.
I have never seen a bialy in my life. I consulted Claudia Roden’s “The Book of Jewish Food” and Maggie Glezer’s “A Blessing of Bread” – bialys get a mention but no recipe. Finally found one in “The Cheese Board Collective Works”. (Just remembered, I have a copy of “Confessions of a Jewish Baker” somewhere.)

Made two types, onion and poppy seed and onion and garlic scaled at 80g using my basic white sourdough formula.
book 005 small.jpg

Highly subjective opinion of course but they might be better than the book.
Be interested if anyone has more information on bialys and what other toppings are used.
Mick

Those look delicious. I have not had a bialy in years, but I'll give you a bit of (completely subjective) background. The bialys I remember from when I was growing up (the Bronx, early sixties) were much thinner than those in the photo. Generally, bialys were not sliced in half like a bagel, they were eaten whole with a bit of cream cheese or whatever smeared over the top. (I always liked them plain, but that's the way I like most fresh bread.) Also, the topping - which was onion and garlic exclusively, I don't remember anything else, ever - was much more sparse, just a hint really, and only in the very center. The main thing about bialys, and I think the reason we don't see them so much any more, is that they had to be eaten almost immediately or they would go stale and be hard as a rock. Almost no shelf life. But a fresh bialy still warm from the oven was one of life's simple pleasures. Bialys seem to be making a comeback, but they're plumper and have more/different toppings, like yours. It almost seems to be a necessity. I'd be interested to see your results from Secrets of a Jewish Baker.

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