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Shelby

The Bread Topic (2014 –2015)

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Jo, beautiful scoring and ears on this baguette.

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Jo, beautiful scoring and ears on this baguette.

 

Dave, thank you!  I finished the whole loaf.  I could have not done this by myself but for a flagon of methode rotuts.  I've not been able to use the term "flagon" since traveling around England, Scotland, Wales in the 1960's. This underscores the importance of keeping at least two one liter iSi pressure vessels chilled at all times.

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I'm baking bread today for a dinner party tomorrow: one batch of pate fermentee bread and one sourdough loaf. I can't do them tomorrow because of errands during the critical time. My present plan is to bake them fully and then simply rewarm tomorrow, but I wonder about the "take and bake" loaves I used to buy at our grocery stores. They were essentially done but a session in the oven (375F for 15? minutes) crisped and browned them. If I were to do that, how should I change today's baking? Should I change the temperature? At what stage should I remove the bread from the oven today? The advantage, I think, would be a crisper crust than if I bake them fully today, store them overnight and rewarm them.


Nancy Smith, aka "Smithy"
HosteG Forumsnsmith@egstaff.org

"Every day should be filled with something delicious, because life is too short not to spoil yourself. " -- Ling (with permission)

"There comes a time in every project when you have to shoot the engineer and start production." -- author unknown

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I'm baking bread today for a dinner party tomorrow: one batch of pate fermentee bread and one sourdough loaf. I can't do them tomorrow because of errands during the critical time. My present plan is to bake them fully and then simply rewarm tomorrow, but I wonder about the "take and bake" loaves I used to buy at our grocery stores. They were essentially done but a session in the oven (375F for 15? minutes) crisped and browned them. If I were to do that, how should I change today's baking? Should I change the temperature? At what stage should I remove the bread from the oven today? The advantage, I think, would be a crisper crust than if I bake them fully today, store them overnight and rewarm them.

I seem to recall an eG member, perhaps jackal10, suggesting they be baked for 30% of the normal time and then finished when you want them ready.

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Anna Nielsen aka "Anna N"

...I just let people know about something I made for supper that they might enjoy, too. That's all it is. (Nigel Slater)

"Cooking is about doing the best with what you have . . . and succeeding." John Thorne

Our 2012 (Kerry Beal and me) Blog

My 2004 eG Blog

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I made the Genovese Focaccia today as per Franci's recipe and instructions. She was also kind enough to answer some additional questions I had in emails I sent to her. As far as I know, the only thing I did wrong was I forgot to put the salt on top before it went in the oven. The bread is somewhat uneven due to my dough stretching skills or lack thereof. In the thin spots, the bread is almost cracker-like, very crispy. The flavour is very good, but in all honesty, I prefer a more traditional, somewhat thicker focaccia. I'd like to make this again but put all the dough in one half sheet pan. I know this will not be "Genovese" focaccia but sometimes I like to do things just because I can.

image.jpg

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Hi Elsie, I really think it's just a matter of technique, how to spread the focaccia in the pan and how to cook it. I'm also learning in the process, because, although I made a lot of focaccia in my life, it's very different than the genovese focaccia, where I don't have much experience. The only point to my favor is that I had the opportunity to taste it numerous times, so, I know how it should be.

I think watching videos helped me so spot also my own mistakes. This guy, an Italian engineer living in California, comes from a family of bakers from Genoa. He has a web site as well with an English version. Although the video is in Italian you can see how he does. He says to have a uniform thickness press the dough, don't stretch and to sprinkle the salt before the final rise (I didn't know!) to prevent a crust from forming.

I think the dough is really a winner. I'll make it again myself in the next couple days trying to follow the same techniques on the stretching the dough and I got myself a paderno blue steel sheet pan!

 

Edit to add: As a curiosity, I'd like to add this video. At the very end the baker shows how to eat the focaccia, the bottom goes to the roof of the mouth so the salty and oily side can touch the tongue.


Edited by Franci (log)
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From the same levain Forkish dough as usual. I swear there was another 1.5 baguettes around here earlier today...

850efb5f8a7e11ba728a600eeb1a7130.jpg

Either my toddler or my fat bumped the heat down to 350 from 450 right after I started the baguette so they're pale but just as delicious and crunchy as ever.

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I made the Genovese Focaccia today as per Franci's recipe and instructions. She was also kind enough to answer some additional questions I had in emails I sent to her. As far as I know, the only thing I did wrong was I forgot to put the salt on top before it went in the oven. The bread is somewhat uneven due to my dough stretching skills or lack thereof. In the thin spots, the bread is almost cracker-like, very crispy. The flavour is very good, but in all honesty, I prefer a more traditional, somewhat thicker focaccia. I'd like to make this again but put all the dough in one half sheet pan. I know this will not be "Genovese" focaccia but sometimes I like to do things just because I can.

ElsieD, I made the Franci's focaccia the other day and it was excellent. I used a full sheet pan and divided the dough into four equal parts and did not try and stretch the dough by pulling, but by slowly pressing down and thus spreading it that way. After doing this I had my four oval breads, each about 1cm thick. After letting them rest for another hour, they were about 15mm thick. Did the emulsion and the rested a further 20 minutes whilst the oven came to temperature. I have a high blast commercial convection oven and only brought it to 210°C and used no steam as the water in the emulsion created its own steam. Baked for 17 minutes and it was done - nice golden crust and beautiful soft crumb. I used our standard cake flour for both the poolish and the main dough - we do not get AP flour here, only cake or bread flour and our cake flour is quite high in gluten. I think your problem is that you tried to stretch the dough by pulling and not pushing down on it to slowly ease it into shape. The recipe is really very easy and the results are absolute magic! It is just time consuming, which is really not a problem if you have sufficient space to put the dough out of the way when doing other baking or cooking. I did sprinkle freshly chopped rosemary on the focaccia immediately after pouring on the emulsion, together with the salt. On one of the breads I also put on some finely chopped garlic as an experiment. However, the garlic burnt and I would not try this again. I am now experimenting to see how the bread freezes for later consumption after reheating.

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Cape Town - At the foot of a flat topped mountain with a tablecloth covering it.

Some time ago we had Johnny Cash, Bob Hope and Steve Jobs. Now we have no Cash, no Hope and no Jobs. Please don't let Kevin Bacon die.

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ElsieD, I made the Franci's focaccia the other day and it was excellent. I used a full sheet pan and divided the dough into four equal parts and did not try and stretch the dough by pulling, but by slowly pressing down and thus spreading it that way. After doing this I had my four oval breads, each about 1cm thick. After letting them rest for another hour, they were about 15mm thick. Did the emulsion and the rested a further 20 minutes whilst the oven came to temperature. I have a high blast commercial convection oven and only brought it to 210°C and used no steam as the water in the emulsion created its own steam. Baked for 17 minutes and it was done - nice golden crust and beautiful soft crumb. I used our standard cake flour for both the poolish and the main dough - we do not get AP flour here, only cake or bread flour and our cake flour is quite high in gluten. I think your problem is that you tried to stretch the dough by pulling and not pushing down on it to slowly ease it into shape. The recipe is really very easy and the results are absolute magic! It is just time consuming, which is really not a problem if you have sufficient space to put the dough out of the way when doing other baking or cooking. I did sprinkle freshly chopped rosemary on the focaccia immediately after pouring on the emulsion, together with the salt. On one of the breads I also put on some finely chopped garlic as an experiment. However, the garlic burnt and I would not try this again. I am now experimenting to see how the bread freezes for later consumption after reheating.

A couple of questions. Do you know the gluten content of the flour you used? If you can tell me, I will try to get something similar. I used AP flour. Secondly, did your bread rise by a factor of 15 or is that a typo? You said you had 4 rounds - any idea about the circumference of those rounds? As a point of clarification, I did stretch the dough a bit, but mostly flattened it using my hands. Anyway, I want to make this again so if you could answer these questions I would be grateful.

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A couple of questions. Do you know the gluten content of the flour you used? If you can tell me, I will try to get something similar. I used AP flour. Secondly, did your bread rise by a factor of 15 or is that a typo? You said you had 4 rounds - any idea about the circumference of those rounds? As a point of clarification, I did stretch the dough a bit, but mostly flattened it using my hands. Anyway, I want to make this again so if you could answer these questions I would be grateful.

Our cake flour is 12.4% protein, if that helps. I think this is roughly equal to your AP flour, but could be wrong.

I first stretched the dough in a ½ sheet pan and it completely filled the pan with a 10 to 12mm height of dough. This was too large for me so I then divided it into four and re-stretched it on a full sized sheet pan, making four equal ovals (not rounds) that just had a small gap between the ovals. This would equate to stretching a quarter of the dough into an oval shape on a ¼ size sheet pan. Each oval was roughly 10mm in height after stretching. After the final hour rest or proving, each oval had an additional rise of about 5mm to bring it to about 15mm in height. After baking they were just over 20mm in height - finished product. The top and bottom of each bread was crisp, but not overly so - the crumb was lovely and soft with good air pockets. Unfortunately, I did not take any photographs - bad dog spot!

Just as a matter of interest, we are into winter in the bottom pointy end of Africa and the temperature for the entire day was in the region of 14 to 17°C with high humidity. The initial 4 hours rise was done in a cloth covered bowl on my one s/s work table - quite cool. The 1 hour proving was done in my cold oven (it had not been used all day) and the final rest after pouring on the emulsion was again on the cold s/s work table.

I hope the above helps.


Cape Town - At the foot of a flat topped mountain with a tablecloth covering it.

Some time ago we had Johnny Cash, Bob Hope and Steve Jobs. Now we have no Cash, no Hope and no Jobs. Please don't let Kevin Bacon die.

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Franci, thanks for the links to the two videos. I watched both of them and then found an English "how to", not a video, more like a pictorial with pictures by the same fellow on the vivalafocaccia.com site. This was very helpful.

John T, thank you for your very helpful explanation. I did misread the dough thickness. You said your dough arose from 1cm to 15mm which I misread as 1cm to 15 cm. Quite a difference! I am going to try it again, and will start by making the poolish tonight. I now have a much better idea of what to expect.

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Ok, so my wife came home today and dropped me a 5Kilo APF and a jar of yeast. LoL, she's fedup of running to the store for me every 3 days. Man I love her....

So some of you know my bread "baguettes" are not done the traditional way. I keep callin them my secret recipe, because of my added herbs, but I also put sugar in my water and I also add oil in the mix too. Nothing I do is traditional to the baguette. The weirdest thing I probably do is I let my instant yeast soak in my warm sugared water for five minutes prior to starting everything.

Regardless, people are loving it and I'm still selling them daily.

That being said.... I've done some reading, and I hate reading... I'm all over the place, jumping from one thing to another. a member here has even forwarded me some real good literature. "Bread Baking - An Artisans Perspective" but I'm like only 5 pages in.

What I'm getting at here... I do wanna take my bread making very serious. I do want to understand the science behind it all. I am waiting from the local culinary bread making school to get back to me with the next semester schedule, hopefully it would balance well with my career. Something tells me it won't thou unfortunately.

I am very passionate about bread making and I enjoy it very much, to the point where I am considering to own a bake shop one day.

Saying all that... I'm in the now, and I am a very hands on kind of guy. Having all this flour and yeast, my hands are bored and I need a challenge.

So I'm asking, can anyone tell me what to do? Give me a challenge? I'll bake any bread wether it's basic to complicated to a must master first kind.

b70dff37cd055888718377f0e8b7a046.jpg


Edited by KingofBaguette (log)

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So, KoB, let's see you make these using only the ingredients called for--flour, water, salt and yeast. If all you have is instant yeast just add it to the flour in the same amount and follow everything else. That's my challenge. I am certain other people will offer you other challenges.


Anna Nielsen aka "Anna N"

...I just let people know about something I made for supper that they might enjoy, too. That's all it is. (Nigel Slater)

"Cooking is about doing the best with what you have . . . and succeeding." John Thorne

Our 2012 (Kerry Beal and me) Blog

My 2004 eG Blog

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As long as you are making bread so frequently perhaps you can keep a mother culture instead of buying expensive yeast. BTW I buy mine in 500g packs for the same price as the jar.


Edited by radtek (log)

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You can make any loaf that  you want, just add yeast with the flour.   I am pondering to make a  Franska  or a porridge loaf,  the Franska uses  what you have  and a bit of butter and milk,  the porridge loaf  uses  any porridge made of rolled  grain,  like  rolled oats,   rye flakes or barley.

 

Do you want the recipes?


Cheese is you friend, Cheese will take care of you, Cheese will never betray you, But blue mold will kill me.

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image.jpg

Forkish overnight white.

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Anna Nielsen aka "Anna N"

...I just let people know about something I made for supper that they might enjoy, too. That's all it is. (Nigel Slater)

"Cooking is about doing the best with what you have . . . and succeeding." John Thorne

Our 2012 (Kerry Beal and me) Blog

My 2004 eG Blog

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So, KoB, let's see you make these using only the ingredients called for--flour, water, salt and yeast. If all you have is instant yeast just add it to the flour in the same amount and follow everything else. That's my challenge. I am certain other people will offer you other challenges.

Anna, I accept the challenge of making a traditional baguette the original way.

1st, I gotta make an olive miche for tonight's supper at a friends house, then I'll go ahead with your request 1st, then others as followed.

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So I'm asking, can anyone tell me what to do? Give me a challenge?

 

 

KofB, I suggest that you try the NY Times No-Knead Bread, if you haven't done so already. That would be a change of pace for you--not a classic method at all, but an effective, alternative method based on  slow fermentation and a wet dough. Also, the NY Times No-Knead Bread is really delicious.

 

Recipe here:

http://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/11376-no-knead-bread

 

Explanation why it works:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/08/dining/08mini.html?_r=0&adxnnl=1&pagewanted=all&adxnnlx=1432429282-NaepVHeZWsRDCtWC7htNvQ

 

If you google "NY Times No-Knead Bread" you'll find many links to blogs and videos about this bread. There is also a very long thread about this bread on EGullet. EGulleters made a dizzying number of variations on this bread. In fact, I joined EGullet back then so I could log onto that thread and blab about no-knead bread. :biggrin:

 

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I never manage to make a  no knead bread that  is delicous , I have follow the instruction and  the bread is stale one day after or in worse cases   2 hours after slicing it and also the  crust is like leather.  

 

Kneading for me isnt that hard, I most often get a really yummy loaf that  way,

 

20150524_093620_zpsidvhxpnb.jpg

 

This is the corn loaf I ended up making yesterday.  It shouldn't be slashed but have a  lovely wash of buttermilk on top but my brain wasn't up to multi tasking last night, so talking to my oldest daughter on the  phone meant that my brain went for the most common route, which is slashing.  OOops, the other loaf split in half.   The bread has a nice soft sponge and is really lovely to  eat.


Edited by CatPoet (log)
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Cheese is you friend, Cheese will take care of you, Cheese will never betray you, But blue mold will kill me.

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Hi KoB

 

It's clear from your enthusiasm that if you want to be a baker you will be a baker.

 

Here's your challenge. Send me your email address by personal message or via my blog. I will send you a free pdf copy of my book "Sourdouigh made Simple" and you bake a loaf from it within ten days and post the results here.

 

Fair enough?

 

Mick

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Mick Hartley

The PArtisan Baker

bethesdabakers

"I can give you more pep than that store bought yeast" - Evolution Mama (don't you make a monkey out of me)

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