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Shelby

The Bread Topic (2014 –2015)

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Those look delicious. I have not had a bialy in years, but I'll give you a bit of (completely subjective) background. The bialys I remember from when I was growing up (the Bronx, early sixties) were much thinner than those in the photo. Generally, bialys were not sliced in half like a bagel, they were eaten whole with a bit of cream cheese or whatever smeared over the top. (I always liked them plain, but that's the way I like most fresh bread.) Also, the topping - which was onion and garlic exclusively, I don't remember anything else, ever - was much more sparse, just a hint really, and only in the very center. The main thing about bialys, and I think the reason we don't see them so much any more, is that they had to be eaten almost immediately or they would go stale and be hard as a rock. Almost no shelf life. But a fresh bialy still warm from the oven was one of life's simple pleasures. Bialys seem to be making a comeback, but they're plumper and have more/different toppings, like yours. It almost seems to be a necessity. I'd be interested to see your results from Secrets of a Jewish Baker. 

 

 

I agree completely. A fresh bialy and a coffee across the street from my office on 48th and Lex was a great way to start the day. Todays "bialy's" are a far cry from the originals. They are all puffed up and have lost the tang of the real thing. 


Edited by paulpegg (log)

Paul Eggermann

Vice President, Secretary and webmaster

Les Marmitons of New Jersey

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image.jpg

White sandwich bread. Dough mixed in Zoji then baked in standard oven. Sesame seeds fell off due to operator error! I can be forgiven for I was also doing the lab work for the Harvard on-line Science and Cooking course and my brain had been previously addled by logarithms in that same course.

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Anna Nielsen aka "Anna N"

...I just let people know about something I made for supper that they might enjoy, too. That's all it is. (Nigel Slater)

"Cooking is about doing the best with what you have . . . and succeeding." John Thorne

Our 2012 (Kerry Beal and me) Blog

My 2004 eG Blog

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Thanks for the feedback on Bialys. It's strange making something new without reference points. I'm not at all hung up on tradition but I like to know the "correct" method before throwing out the book.

 

George Greenstein in "Secrets of" says real bialys are dense, blistered and chewy, with a toasted flourlike taste. He agrees on the meagre amount of filling but says they are best slathered with cream cheese and suggests adding chopped radish, celery and green onions the the cheese.

 

As variations he cites Bialy Flats, with the dough rolled out to 6-8 inches and covered with topping, and Bialy Loaves the size of three rolls again covered with the topping.

 

For the moment my wife insists I stick to my version! Might be less skinny than the origins but pretty nice.

 

Mick

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Mick Hartley

The PArtisan Baker

bethesdabakers

"I can give you more pep than that store bought yeast" - Evolution Mama (don't you make a monkey out of me)

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Made a load of breads for a friend's wedding last Sunday including this:

foc 01 small.jpg

foc 02 small.jpg

1600g focaccia using my basic high hydration white sourdough (Strong White 100%; Water 78.2%; Starter 25%; Salt 1.7%)

 

Never expect weddings to be much fun but this was so good I had to take Monday off.

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Mick Hartley

The PArtisan Baker

bethesdabakers

"I can give you more pep than that store bought yeast" - Evolution Mama (don't you make a monkey out of me)

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Thanks Paul. But I have to admit that the beauty comes fron the simplicity of the toppings on the white dough.

 

I also baked more Auvergnats and Couronnes Bordelaise (and got them right this time), a 2K Simple Danish Rye and 60 odd Kackebrod for the happy couple. Pictures on the blog if you are interested.

 

Mick


Mick Hartley

The PArtisan Baker

bethesdabakers

"I can give you more pep than that store bought yeast" - Evolution Mama (don't you make a monkey out of me)

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Anyway, back at the homestead Herself put in a request for Olive Bread. Why not go the whole hog and have a Pain Nicoise I asked. If you have to put up with a baker in the house you might as well take full advantage. My Nicoise is a straightforward white sourdough with the addition of olive oil, onions, garlic, black and green olives, figs, sundried tomatoes and herbes de provence. The onions and garlic are gently fried in the oil and then the remaining ingredients are added before the whole is cooled.

toothie 001 small.jpg

(Strong Bread Flour 100%; Water 50.0%; Starter 50.0%, Salt 1.8%; onion mixture 40%; Olive Oil 7.0%)

crumb 001 small.jpg

They don't last long ...

 

Mick

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Mick Hartley

The PArtisan Baker

bethesdabakers

"I can give you more pep than that store bought yeast" - Evolution Mama (don't you make a monkey out of me)

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50% starter! Looks like a good way to use up some starter when I've gotten carried away with refreshing but not using.


Nancy Smith, aka "Smithy"
HosteG Forumsnsmith@egstaff.org

"Every day should be filled with something delicious, because life is too short not to spoil yourself. " -- Ling (with permission)

"There comes a time in every project when you have to shoot the engineer and start production." -- author unknown

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My first effort at focaccia. To the side you can see a sourdough loaf based on Mick's 50% starter above. I'll post about it in the sourdough topic, which has been languishing. 

 

Focaccia and sourdough.jpg

Focaccia baked bottom.jpg

Focaccia cut.jpg

 

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Nancy Smith, aka "Smithy"
HosteG Forumsnsmith@egstaff.org

"Every day should be filled with something delicious, because life is too short not to spoil yourself. " -- Ling (with permission)

"There comes a time in every project when you have to shoot the engineer and start production." -- author unknown

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Hi Smithy

 

I was just going to point out that 50% starter is only about 150g more than say 28% but you've beaten me to it and made some great looking bread.

 

I've got some mad Dutch formulas that range between 125%-190% starter if you're interested ...

 

Mick


Mick Hartley

The PArtisan Baker

bethesdabakers

"I can give you more pep than that store bought yeast" - Evolution Mama (don't you make a monkey out of me)

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is there a Sourdiough topic that different than the bread topic ?

 

Id like to follow both if possible 

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Smithy, that is stunning. Can you tell us what recipe you used?

 

I can't give you the exact recipe because it isn't mine to give away, but I can tell you that it's an 80% hydration using the Pain à l’Ancienne Method.  I think it's probably as much technique as formula.  The formula and technique are from Peter Reinhart's class in Craftsy, Artisan Bread Making.   I highly recommend the class.

 

Hi Smithy

 

I was just going to point out that 50% starter is only about 150g more than say 28% but you've beaten me to it and made some great looking bread.

 

I've got some mad Dutch formulas that range between 125%-190% starter if you're interested ...

 

Mick

 

Thanks, Mick!  Yes, I'd be very interested.  The focaccia was my first excursion into high-hydration dough.  Very interesting stuff.  Please do share!

 

is there a Sourdiough topic that different than the bread topic ?

 

Id like to follow both if possible 

 

rotuts, you've made my point exactly.  The topic Establishing and Working with Homegrown Sourdough Starter hasn't done much since this spring.  It's time for a revival.

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Nancy Smith, aka "Smithy"
HosteG Forumsnsmith@egstaff.org

"Every day should be filled with something delicious, because life is too short not to spoil yourself. " -- Ling (with permission)

"There comes a time in every project when you have to shoot the engineer and start production." -- author unknown

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Smithy, I too took that class, and learned a lot. He is a terrific teacher.

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I've sorted out a couple of bread formulas for you, a High Hydration Wholemeal loaf and a Dutch Potato Bread loaf with starter at 125%. I hope no one is confused about the difference - a high hydration dough is very wet and so needs special handling; a dough with a high percentage of starter needn't be very wet because there might only be a small percentage of water in the dough.

 

I'm happy to discuss the breads here but the formulas are on my blog , thepartisanbaker.com. They are going to end up in a book sometime and I want to have some control over them and to be able to remove them from the net at a later date.

 

If you go to the blog and position the cursor over "Bread" in the top menu a drop-down menu will appear where you will find the two formulas together with a few others.
 

tom 001 small.jpg

Tomato bread in my porch on a blazing Bethesda evening.

 

Mck

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Mick Hartley

The PArtisan Baker

bethesdabakers

"I can give you more pep than that store bought yeast" - Evolution Mama (don't you make a monkey out of me)

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I just bought the book The Larousse Book of Bread. All of the recipes call for sourdough starter as an ingredient including croissants and various sweet doughs. I have never seen sourdough called for in croissants and that includes the course I took at Le Cordon Bleu when I took a course on Vienoisserie. I am a bit confused. Can someone enlighten me as to why croissants, brioche and other sweet breads are better made with sourdough?

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Thanks, Mick, for the links and recipes.  I'm enjoying your blog.

 

I'm alternating these days between yeasted breads and sourdough breads, getting a feel for both and cross-pollinating, so to speak, between various courses and books.  Today (starting yesterday) I made my first attempt at an epi (wheat stalk shape) loaf for friends who know they're in for an adventure whenever they come for dinner.

 

The dough is 80% hydration, fermented overnight.  I have this question in to the teacher, but I'll ask here also: does "pain a l'ancienne" (please forgive the missing diacriticals) refer to the overnight/several night fermentation, the hydration level, or something else altogether?  

 

Before baking, I feared that it would be nothing more than a blob:

 

Epi before baking closeup.jpg

 

By the time it was done, I was feeling better about it.

 

Epi baked 1.jpg

 

It looks more like a crankshaft than a wheat stalk, but tastes better than either.

 

Epi baked cut closeup.jpg

 

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Nancy Smith, aka "Smithy"
HosteG Forumsnsmith@egstaff.org

"Every day should be filled with something delicious, because life is too short not to spoil yourself. " -- Ling (with permission)

"There comes a time in every project when you have to shoot the engineer and start production." -- author unknown

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Hi Elsie

 

I dragged that book back from France last year and was hugely disappointed when I looked at the detail even if it does have the mighty Eric Kayser's name on the cover. I always think his books play to the (very) amateur rather than trying to push the home-baker's skills.

But my question would be, why does he include commercial yeast with the starter? It's totally unnecessary.

 

Smithy - that is a seriously brave thing to do with an 80% dough. I think that looks great. I looked up "crankshaft" in my French dictionary - it's vilebrequin. Call it that and add a bit of French kudos. As far as I remember pain a l'ancienne is a modern bread deliberately created to reflect how bread used to be in response to commercial production methods,

 

Glad you are enjoying the blog - I can use my own voice there without being reminded that I didn't attend the School of Good Manners.

 

Mick

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Mick Hartley

The PArtisan Baker

bethesdabakers

"I can give you more pep than that store bought yeast" - Evolution Mama (don't you make a monkey out of me)

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Hi Elsie

 

I dragged that book back from France last year and was hugely disappointed when I looked at the detail even if it does have the mighty Eric Kayser's name on the cover. I always think his books play to the (very) amateur rather than trying to push the home-baker's skills.

But my question would be, why does he include commercial yeast with the starter? It's totally unnecessary.

 

Smithy - that is a seriously brave thing to do with an 80% dough. I think that looks great. I looked up "crankshaft" in my French dictionary - it's vilebrequin. Call it that and add a bit of French kudos. As far as I remember pain a l'ancienne is a modern bread deliberately created to reflect how bread used to be in response to commercial production methods,

 

Glad you are enjoying the blog - I can use my own voice there without being reminded that I didn't attend the School of Good Manners.

 

Mick

Thanks, Mick. I'm taking the book back.

Nice loaf, Smithy!

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you can't really see it in the picture :

 

BuckBread.jpg

 

this is my usual home-made ( machine ) bread

 

it has 1/2 white, 1/4 white whole wheat  ( both TJ's ) and 1/4 rye  ( Bob's )

 

I saw some buckwheat in packages included in Bob's display at the supermarket

 

and recalling buckwheat pancakes growing up I added some to my mix.

 

initially only 20 gms / 497 gms, then 40 grams / 497

 

it makes nice toast and sandwich bread and you can taste the buckwheat even at these low proportions.

 

the loaf does even have  a blueish hue, but that didn't come across with the picture.

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Rotuts - I guess that's using commercial yeast as you are baking in a bread machine. But even if you were baking sourdough I think you get the best flavour development from blending different flours rather than assuming the flavour will come from the starter.

loaf 001 small.jpg
 

This ugly beast is the remains of an 80% hydration white sourdough that I mixed last Friday and baked today (Wednesday). I had a student doing a Sourdough Intro Course over the weekend and mixed it so we could make pizzas on Sunday. By today the gluten in what was left had pretty much totally broken down. It was extremely difficult to handle even with a lot of flour and just fell apart. But we managed to get it in a tin, gave it a couple of hours prove and wacked it in the oven.

crumb 001 small.jpg

I was amazed that it rose at all (the wholeof the domed top). In this case I think the whole flavour will come from the fermentation and not the flour! Not a bread to plan to make.

 

Mick

 

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Mick Hartley

The PArtisan Baker

bethesdabakers

"I can give you more pep than that store bought yeast" - Evolution Mama (don't you make a monkey out of me)

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Rotuts - your last bread had a bluish tinge from the buckwheat.

tt crumb 002 small.jpg

This has a barely visible green tinge from the tomatillos and the cilantro.

tt 001 small.jpg

Texas Tomatillo Bread with Chiles Serrano - exclusive to Bethesda, North Wales. Does that make it one of those iconic regional breads? Do you think the guys from Modernist Cuisine might be interested?

 

Mick

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Mick Hartley

The PArtisan Baker

bethesdabakers

"I can give you more pep than that store bought yeast" - Evolution Mama (don't you make a monkey out of me)

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