Absurdly, stupidly basic cooking questions (Part 2)

**MaryIsobel** · October 1

On 9/28/2024 at 9:31 AM, TdeV said:

Do you have any citric acid available, @MaryIsobel?

On 9/28/2024 at 1:03 PM, MaryIsobel said:

I have a jar of Fruit Fresh which is probably 10 years old...

I had great success with my 10 year old fruit fresh. 30 hours in and not a sign of browning. I used honeycrisp apples as that was all I had but for the wedding, I want to do a red slice and a green slice so will stic with the honeycrisp and go with grannysmiths for the green.

**ElsieD** · October 17

I am making an oxtail ragu, from a recipe I've never made. It called for 6 1/2 pounds of oxtails and at one point it says to cover them with liquid, let it come to a very slow simmer and let it simmer for 7 hours. It does not say whether to cover the pot or not. The tails just fit in my dutch oven and the liquid covers them but just. Should this be covered? The recipe doesn't say one way or another. If I don't cover it, as the liquid evapourates, the top layer of tails will no longer be covered and I don't know what that does to the meat as far as tenderizer it goes. Thanks for any and all advice. I have $90 worth of oxtails in there and don't want to botch it up.

rotuts · October 17

@ElsieD

keep the pot covered . check from time to time as you may or may not need to

add water // stock etc

if the meat uncovered , it will still tenderize , as it being steamed for 7 hours.

Im not going to put your $ 90 ( CND ) in jeopardy ,

but once you got the pot to a simmer

you might move it into an oven , and check from there from time to time.

its a braise , either way . 325 F for the over would be a temp to start with

you just want the pot to slowly simmer .

just under the simmer would also work .

love to see pics , before , after etc

always interesting.

Katie Meadow · October 17

8 minutes ago, ElsieD said:

I am making an oxtail ragu, from a recipe I've never made. It called for 6 1/2 pounds of oxtails and at one point it says to cover them with liquid, let it come to a very slow simmer and let it simmer for 7 hours. It does not say whether to cover the pot or not. The tails just fit in my dutch oven and the liquid covers them but just. Should this be covered? The recipe doesn't say one way or another. If I don't cover it, as the liquid evapourates, the top layer of tails will no longer be covered and I don't know what that does to the meat as far as tenderizer it goes. Thanks for any and all advice. I have $90 worth of oxtails in there and don't want to botch it up.

My inclination would be to cover it. If the low simmer is too high fully covered, I might leave a crescent uncovered. And check the level of the liquid frequently to make sure the simmer is low and to add a bit of stock or wine or whatever you already are using so the oxtails remain submerged. My best guess.

Senior Sea Kayaker · October 17

13 minutes ago, ElsieD said:

I am making an oxtail ragu, from a recipe I've never made. It called for 6 1/2 pounds of oxtails and at one point it says to cover them with liquid, let it come to a very slow simmer and let it simmer for 7 hours. It does not say whether to cover the pot or not. The tails just fit in my dutch oven and the liquid covers them but just. Should this be covered? The recipe doesn't say one way or another. If I don't cover it, as the liquid evapourates, the top layer of tails will no longer be covered and I don't know what that does to the meat as far as tenderizer it goes. Thanks for any and all advice. I have $90 worth of oxtails in there and don't want to botch it up.

I would keep the pot covered. I'm assuming the recipe calls for chilling the ragu post braise, defatting, then proceeding.

Ah for the good old days when oxtails were dirt cheap or even free if you were a good customer at your local butcher.

rotuts · October 17

Oven .

check from time tom time .

its a braise.

you can do a braise on the burners on top of an oven

it's easier to check that way .

so maybe that's the point .

Edited October 17 by rotuts (log)

**ElsieD** · October 17

Thanks, everyone. That was my inclination as well. I've moved everything out of my dutch oven and into a stockpot as I decided the Dutch oven filled as it was to the top, was too full. @Senior Sea Kayaker Per the recipe after it's 7 hours on the stove it is strained, meat picked off, cooking veg discarded, pearl onions and carrot added and the lot reduced to ragu consistency. As per me, I plan to cool it on the balcony overnight (2 degrees C) and defat it first. Not much to see @rotuts

But this is what it looks like right now:

rotuts · October 17

@ElsieD

tha bks !

that pic is the stock , meat removed , pearls and carrot , reduced ?

looking tasty already ?

How is that meat doing ?

**TdeV** · October 17

I have notes in my Sous Vide diary (copied from egullet @nickrey said 162ºF for 48 hours and @FeChef 160ºF for 24-30 hours). I started at noon on Saturday and was done by Sunday at 5 pm - 29 hours. But that cook was more than one year ago.

I think I would move the oxtail to the Anova oven (APO). Perhaps this as a guide? Jamaican Style Sous Vide Oxtail

Personally I am very annoyed by oxtail in the general grocery stores, the oxtail is sold now with an extra inch of fat around every piece. Which is a lot of money to toss out. Grrr!

Edited October 18 by TdeV (log)

rotuts · October 17

@TdeV

Ive looked at oxtail , at higher end , local small family owned stores.

much better than average stuff , all around.

w good quality service meat counters.

Ive never seen ox tails packed up ( they don't have OT at the service counter )

other than those that were really small , w very little meat , and id guess m based on your comments , more fat

on the circumference than justified by the meat .

I think meaty OT , go elsewhere , as these days , they are pretty pricy

for very long cook meat.

Edited October 17 by rotuts (log)

Tropicalsenior · October 17

@TdeV I no longer make oxtail soup but when I did I never threw away nor trimmed the fat. After the stock was defalted, I saved it, added flour to it and made roux. I had small ice cube trays with tablespoon sized cubes. I kept those in the freezer and used the roux to thicken soups and gravies. It's like liquid gold. It adds wonderful flavor to whatever you put it in.

1 hour ago, ElsieD said:

Should this be covered?

I also vote for covering the pot. And if it will fit in your oven I like the idea of doing it in the oven but I would do it at 300°.

**TdeV** · October 17

Yes, @rotuts, it seems all those long cook cheap meats are gone forever now. The university in my town has courses for farmers, breeders and butchers, so it's possible (but rare) to find good oxtail.

**ElsieD** · October 17

19 minutes ago, TdeV said:

I have notes in my Sous Vide diary (copied from egullet @nickrey said 162ºF for 48 hours and @FeChef 160ºF for 24-30 hours). I started at noon on Saturday and was done by Sunday at 5 pm - 29 hours.

I think I would move it to the Anova oven (APO). Perhaps this as a guide? Jamaican Style Sous Vide Oxtail

Personally I am very annoyed by oxtail in the general grocery stores, the oxtail is sold now with an extra inch of fat around every piece. Which is a lot of money to toss out. Grrr!

We bought ours at a butcher shop, one I go to when I want something special. It comes packaged as 1 cut-up entire oxtail to a package and while it has some fat, it is nicely trimmed. We have a grocery here called Farm Boy and the beef they sell is all AAA. I called them to ask about oxtails and they said they'd start getting them near the end of the month and carrying them til the end of the year. I'll be curious to see how much they charge.

rotuts · October 17

Im currently watching a series ( 10 episodes )

Lincoln Lawyer , season 3 .

French Dip is the subject , and I really really would like that FD. right now .

or OxTails , w crusty bread .

wow . what a night Im going to have .

you betcha

**ElsieD** · October 17

34 minutes ago, rotuts said:

@ElsieD

tha bks !

that pic is the stock , meat removed , pearls and carrot , reduced ?

looking tasty already ?

How is that meat doing ?

That pic is the lot braising away - finely chopped carrot, onion, leeks, celery, calls for 1 BULB of garlic, (it doesn't like me so only added maybe a teaspoon) and mushrooms and of course, the oxtails.

rotuts · October 17

BTW :

at a place in LA called Coles

**ElsieD** · October 17

30 minutes ago, Tropicalsenior said:

@TdeV I no longer make oxtail soup but when I did I never threw away nor trimmed the fat. After the stock was defalted, I saved it, added flour to it and made roux. I had small ice cube trays with tablespoon sized cubes. I kept those in the freezer and used the roux to thicken soups and gravies. It's like liquid gold. It adds wonderful flavor to whatever you put it in.

I also vote for covering the pot. And if it will fit in your oven I like the idea of doing it in the oven but I would do it at 300°.

I do the ice cube trays thing with chicken and turkey stock. I reduce it to the point where you can stick a knife in it and it stands straight up. Once frozen, I bag it.

**MaryIsobel** · October 17

On 10/1/2024 at 11:53 AM, MaryIsobel said:

I had great success with my 10 year old fruit fresh. 30 hours in and not a sign of browning. I used honeycrisp apples as that was all I had but for the wedding, I want to do a red slice and a green slice so will stic with the honeycrisp and go with grannysmiths for the green.

Update: Even after 48 hours most of the leftovers were not brown. What I noticed is that if there was any bit of the core left, that part started to turn brown after about 30 hours. I sliced the apples (well, my husband did, hence the bits of core left🤣) swished them in the solution of fruit fresh (basically citric acid) and water for about 45 seconds, drained them in a colander and without patting them dry, put in ziplock bags. The next afternoon, we spread them on kitchen towels and patted them dry with paper towel. They were perfect.

Edited October 17 by MaryIsobel (log)

liuzhou · October 18

5 hours ago, TdeV said:

Personally I am very annoyed by oxtail in the general grocery stores, the oxtail is sold now with an extra inch of fat around every piece. Which is a lot of money to toss out. Grrr!

Hmm. Oxtails round here are easily sourced but, by local standards, expensive. ¥228 CNY / $32 USD per kilo. That is for skin off tail.

I coud save money by buying them unskinned (¥114 / $16 per kilo) but skinning them is hard work and, of course, and a significant part of the weight.

Either way, they are not particularly fatty. Maybe we just have skinnier cattle around here. I would actually prefer them a little fattier so I could collect the fat for other uses, à la @Tropicalsenior.

Edited October 18 by liuzhou (log)

**ElsieD** · October 18

I paid $28.90 a kilo, CDN.

Katie Meadow · October 18

6 hours ago, Senior Sea Kayaker said:

I would keep the pot covered. I'm assuming the recipe calls for chilling the ragu post braise, defatting, then proceeding.

Ah for the good old days when oxtails were dirt cheap or even free if you were a good customer at your local butcher.

I'm turning 77 at the end of this month. You must be at least 140 if you remember free oxtails! I learned to cook them when they were cheap and I was a poor grad student in NM .We used to make them in a stew with Hatch chiles. I almost never eat beef any more, but I'm always astounded when I see oxtail prices.

Senior Sea Kayaker · October 18

6 hours ago, Katie Meadow said:

I'm turning 77 at the end of this month. You must be at least 140 if you remember free oxtails! I learned to cook them when they were cheap and I was a poor grad student in NM .We used to make them in a stew with Hatch chiles. I almost never eat beef any more, but I'm always astounded when I see oxtail prices.

Halve that 140 and you'd be dead on. That availability of oxtails was from growing up in Quebec and my parents would make oxtail soup.

Chicken wings were also an inexpensive buy with which my mother would make 'lolly pops' ala Pol Martin (a local TV chef in the 60's).

When I moved to Toronto to attend grad school oxtails were very inexpensive at butchers in Kensington Market and I also had my first exposure to oxtail stew at The Real Jerk (Jamaican restaurant) and learned how to make it. Also oxtail stew with mushrooms and red wine.

I've never seen them for sale here.

chromedome · October 18

2 minutes ago, Senior Sea Kayaker said:

Halve that 140 and you'd be dead on. That availability of oxtails was from growing up in Quebec and my parents would make oxtail soup.

Chicken wings were also an inexpensive buy with which my mother would make 'lolly pops' ala Pol Martin (a local TV chef in the 60's).

When I moved to Toronto to attend grad school oxtails were very inexpensive at butchers in Kensington Market and I also had my first exposure to oxtail stew at The Real Jerk (Jamaican restaurant) and learned how to make it. Also oxtail stew with mushrooms and red wine.

I've never seen them for sale here.

Superstore and Sobeys have them occasionally, though it's been a while since I've bought any because I'm a cheapskate. The meat-counter manager will usually be happy to bring some in for you, if you ask. That's what I did the last time I had an insuperable craving for oxtail soup.

Like many others here I used to buy oxtail when it was inexpensive, but then at some point in the 80s it got "discovered" or something, I don't know. The price went from budget-friendly to stratospheric almost overnight, around the same time flank steak skyrocketed (another of my low-cost staples at the time).

**TdeV** · October 18

12 hours ago, Tropicalsenior said:

@TdeV I no longer make oxtail soup but when I did I never threw away nor trimmed the fat. After the stock was defalted, I saved it, added flour to it and made roux. I had small ice cube trays with tablespoon sized cubes. I kept those in the freezer and used the roux to thicken soups and gravies. It's like liquid gold. It adds wonderful flavor to whatever you put it in.

How much flour to how much fat? Did you brown the flour? Thanks.

Senior Sea Kayaker · October 18

@chromedome

You can add beef shanks and lamb shanks to flank steak and oxtails.

Prices skyrocketed in the mid to late 80's. I've seen frozen beef shanks here more expensive than sirloin strip steaks.

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Absurdly, stupidly basic cooking questions (Part 2)

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