Cooking with "Modernist Cuisine" (Part 1)

[jmolinari]

Makes sense nathan. Do you guys calculate brines to be "equilibrium brines"? Meaning that they item can't overbrine as the system (cukes and brine) equilibrate?

[JBailey]

Nathan

For those on the verge of deciding about a vacuum purchase, I fully affirm your statement that "once you have a chamber style vacuum packer in your kitchen, you use it for everything - it is very convienient." As I related in other threads, I purchased my MVS-31 from Polyscience many months before I purchased my circulator. I find myself using it every day for a myriad of applications-tonight I prepared a steak from Costco sous vide and vacuum packed the other two steaks in the package for later use. Your observations about pockets of air in fruit was most intersting. While I have done some experimenting, I certainly intend to do more. Keller's watermelon was one of the first things I tried and it was a delightful success.

[emannths]

Chris--can you explain the goal of using the techniques described for the chicken and the pickles? It looks like the chicken is aiming to mimic roast chicken, trying to have both the skin and meat done perfectly without having to sacrifice one for the other, as opposed to mimicking traditional fried chicken. Is this right? And the pickles--they're just pickles, right? Salt, water, vinegar (or lactic acid?), and flavorings? Besides the use of the vacuum bag, anything that's not the same as making quick pickles?

The reason they may use a vacuum for making pickles is maybe to try to get the brine to replace the air in the intercellular areas more quickly. You know how when you blanch green vegetables they get brilliantly green? I think this is because the intercellular air spaces either collapse or are filled with water, reducing the scatting of light and making the color look more saturated (similar to the difference between a clear glass and a frosted glass). Maybe the vacuum bag is designed to do the same thing--collapse those air-filled spaces to allow the pickle to finish faster/more thoroughly.

ETA: I should probably make sure I read all the posts before I write back. At least I was on the right track though!

Edited February 28, 2011 by emannths (log)

[Chris Amirault]

It looks like the chicken is aiming to mimic roast chicken, trying to have both the skin and meat done perfectly without having to sacrifice one for the other, as opposed to mimicking traditional fried chicken. Is this right?

I wouldn't use the phrase "mimic roast chicken," exactly; I think that it's trying to balance the succulence of slowly fried chicken with the benefits of a fast deep fry on skin.

And the pickles--they're just pickles, right? Salt, water, vinegar (or lactic acid?), and flavorings? Besides the use of the vacuum bag, anything that's not the same as making quick pickles?

Yep, just very good pickles. Unlike the fried chicken and mac & cheese, it's just about tweaking, not transforming, your basic approach.

[Paul Kierstead]

I wonder if the bruising introduced by the vac-packing makes a significant difference? Ideas in Food explores using this some.

[Shelby]

This is so interesting. Thank you for allowing us to have a peek into this "Jetson-like" cooking.

It's so very scientific. Definitely not for a person like me who throws "a pinch of this" and "a dash of that" into a pot. Or, is there a point when you get so used to cooking this way that you can just "eyeball" certain ingredients? Or is that a really dumb question?

[Chris Amirault]

Well, but you don't "eyeball" baking powder, do you, Shelby? I think that's the way to understand it. Yes, I eyeballed the spices and herbs for the buttermilk chicken dust, but I didn't eyeball the sodium citrate and iota carrageenan for the cheese. Sorta like how you probably measure certain of your baking ingredients and toss in pinches and dashes for flavor. You know?

[Shelby]

Well, but you don't "eyeball" baking powder, do you, Shelby? I think that's the way to understand it. Yes, I eyeballed the spices and herbs for the buttermilk chicken dust, but I didn't eyeball the sodium citrate and iota carrageenan for the cheese. Sorta like how you probably measure certain of your baking ingredients and toss in pinches and dashes for flavor. You know?

I do eyeball baking powder when I know it takes, for example 1/4 t., I use what ever spoon I have out and pop it in... But, I see what you mean. Obviously for baking you do measure where as if you're making a stew, you dump.

A side question:

Will these books be available in libraries?

[Chris Hennes]

Actually Chris, I think you probably could just eyeball the carrageenan, the way you might eyeball xantham gum and the like: add a bit, stir, check the texture, add a bit more, check the texture, etc. I don't know that it's being used in any sort of precision chemical reactions, it's being used as a thickener (please correct me if I'm wrong...).

[FoodMan]

So that others may learn from my many mistakes, here they all in all their glory. I hope to look back on this post one day from a position of great spherification knowledge and shake my head at my past foolishness.

As I mentioned above, with the first attempt I used a blender to do the final mixing, including the xantham gum. The calcium takes a while to dissolve, so I wound up blending for quite some time, and because of the viscosity added by the xantham the bubbles were held in suspension. The end result was that the liquid floated in the bath:

For batch two I used a hand whisk to combine the ingredients, and I didn't add the xantham until the calcium was dissolved: this worked much better at making sure there were no air bubbles. But this being my first spherification attempt, and having not read the book closely enough, the first attempt with the new batch was better, but still not right. I was sort of pouring the liquid into the bath from a short height...

So it sort of floats on the surface, with the surface tension being enough to keep it afloat (barely):

Here's a side view of that effect:

Looking more closely at the book shows the flaw in this technique, so attempt two (which actually works) was to actually try to release the liquid under the surface of the bath by sort of dunking the spoon in and rotating it. Here is that sequence...

And the sphere beginning to take form

I don't have a good spoon for this so I had to use a strainer and a regular spoon. The spheres are removed from the alginate bath:

And then rinsed in water twice to stop the gelling:

They are stored in an additional amount of the filling ingredients (minus the xantham gum and calcium)

The carbonation is achieved with a ISI Thermowhip and three charges of nitrogen (one to purge the container and two to charge it). Five hours in the fridge, and you have carbonated mojito spheres, like so:

That's served in a glass of tonic, because I wasn't sure what else to do. All told this was a fun experiment, but there are a few things I would change if I were to make it again. First, I think I'd make them smaller: I was using 10-15 mL of fluid per ball, which is about the size of a small egg yolk. I think that was too big, and that 5-7mL would be easier to eat. Second, I'd like to make the skin thinner: these seemed more resilient than necessary (though maybe the carbonation is hard on them and the thicker shell is needed for that). Finally, I need to come up with a better way of serving them: they don't pack enough flavor punch to be dropped into tonic like this. I think maybe serve them alone, on a small spoon, as a sort of amuse bouche.

hmm...the bath is Sodium Alginate. Right? When I do that I usually follow the Alinea version and freeze the "spheres" in ice cube trays. you should have no problem getting them to sink in the warm Alginate bath when they are frozen and they sphere-ify gently as they thaw. It works great and streamlines the process a bit if you need to do a bunch of them right before serving.

[johnder]

So that is why we use vacuum packing. However, I will also admit that once you have a chamber style vacuum packer in your kitchen, you use it for everything - it is very convienient.

This brings up a question, is there any chance on the foreseeable future that we will be able to obtain a decent chamber sealer un the sub 600 range or are they just destined to remain in the $1+ range.

[Tri2Cook]

Actually Chris, I think you probably could just eyeball the carrageenan, the way you might eyeball xantham gum and the like: add a bit, stir, check the texture, add a bit more, check the texture, etc. I don't know that it's being used in any sort of precision chemical reactions, it's being used as a thickener (please correct me if I'm wrong...).

I don't think eyeballing carrageenan would be the way to go. Carrageenans don't behave like starches, modified starches or xanthan in hot liquids. Carrageenans won't gel above a range of temps (which varies based on controllable factors) and while shearing is occuring. If you're adding it to a hot liquid and stirring, it's not going to gel. If you add enough that it's physically getting thicker while hot and under shear, it's taking up a significant amount of available water for hydration and you've added way, way, WAY too much. The general rule of hydrocolloids is to use the minimal amount needed to do the job and carrageenans work in very low concentrations, especially in the presence of calcium. Eyeballing the correct amount to add without using a scale would be tough, eyeballing it based on the consistency of a hot liquid would be, in my opinion, impossible.

[Chris Amirault]

So that is why we use vacuum packing. However, I will also admit that once you have a chamber style vacuum packer in your kitchen, you use it for everything - it is very convienient.

This brings up a question, is there any chance on the foreseeable future that we will be able to obtain a decent chamber sealer un the sub 600 range or are they just destined to remain in the $1+ range.

My question as well -- and I'm seeing them mostly near $2K...

[cbread]

I assume quantities of carrageenan need to be precise.

Can anyone with knowledge of the usage of carrageenan and citrate offer specifics on what proportionate quantities of iota carrageenan and sodium citrate are needed to make a batch of that or a similar mac n' cheese? When the pictures of that Mac n' cheese and the information on it hit these pages, I sourced iota carrageenan and sodium citrate in the hopes that my copy of MC would arrive soon.

Now I find Amazon.ca is looking at a pushed back ship date in early April, and I need to make something like that mac n' cheese.

My (probably lifetime) supply of carrageenan arrived today and citrate will soon follow. What I now lack is knowledge of how to put them to use.

[Chris Hennes]

Carrageenans don't behave like starches, modified starches or xanthan in hot liquids.

What, you mean I should have actually read that chapter instead of just skimming it? Thanks for the clarification, I think that makes sense. I'm looking forward to my hard copy of this thing, I think I'll need to take a week off just for the first go-through!

Tonight I made two things from MC for dinner, a pork tenderloin and asparagus. The pork was done following the time and temp recommendations in the book, cooking at 60°C/140°F for 50 minutes to a core temp of 59°C/138°F, then zapping it with the torch to finish. I had seasoned and vacuum-packed the pork several days ago with salt and herbes de provence: it turned out very, very well indeed, although I was a bit careless with the torch and cooked a bit more of the outer layer than I intended to on one side. I think this temperature recommendation is spot on, this was easily the best pork tenderloin I've ever had in terms of texture and flavor. I'd previously done tenderloins SV at 145°F, but I think 138°F is much better. And using a small temperature increment above final core temp results in considerably shorter cooking time, which is a handy recommendation. The asparagus was cooked with 10% water, 5% olive oil, and 1% salt at 85°C/185°F for fifteen minutes: it was very good as well. This recipe in particular highlighted the value of including the scaling ratios: it eliminates a step (and therefore source of error) from the scaling process, since I did not make the same amount of asparagus as the recipe called for. I've really come to appreciate this, and I hope we see more cookbooks follow MC's lead (lots of baking books already do, of course, but few others).

[Kerry Beal]

So that is why we use vacuum packing. However, I will also admit that once you have a chamber style vacuum packer in your kitchen, you use it for everything - it is very convienient.

This brings up a question, is there any chance on the foreseeable future that we will be able to obtain a decent chamber sealer un the sub 600 range or are they just destined to remain in the $1+ range.

My question as well -- and I'm seeing them mostly near $2K...

Hate to make all you guys jealous - but I picked up a chamber vacuum last week off Kijiji for a very good price. Downside - got it home (that was not an easy process) and realized it was 220V - so just waiting for hubby to get that hooked up. Hope hell doesn't freeze over first!

Here is the unit

[Kerry Beal]

Comments on the three recipes from MC.

The pickles were very tasty, and I'll be using that brine and method again. I'm not sure what I gain from sealing the cukes and brine in a vacuum bag, however, so I may go back to the jar-with-glass-thing-that-keeps-the-pickles-under-brine. Maybe when I get a chamber vacuum I'll give it a go again.

The chicken was pretty amazing. While preparing the brine, I was surprised at the lack of any flavorings save booze and salt, but the method puts a piece of extremely juicy flesh with a portion of very crispy skin in each bite -- and no bone to avoid. The buttermilk powder is a real stroke, adding a tang to the coating that I can't imagine getting otherwise. In addition, cranking the oil up to 425F, though a bit scary for someone who's stuck around 375F most of the time, was absolutely the right thing to do: 4 minutes with one flip in the middle and that skin was perfect.

I do think that I would squeeze out the accumulated liquid in the skin-wrapped thigh more carefully before frying; some released over the oil creating a small explosion. Given the importance of the meat quality, I'd also use the best chicken I could find. (These were Whole Foods generic, not free-range, and you could tell.)

As for the mac & cheese: it was both the best and the easiest I've ever made. No gloppy sauce, remarkably intense cheese flavor (you get the "flavor release" concept when you eat it), and the pasta absorbs it thoroughly. There was a moment when the mac & cheese was boiling away while I got distracted, and I rushed over to it thinking, "It must have broken." Nope. It's hard to imagine ever making it any differently again, though I think I'd swap out some of the gouda and add more cheddar out of preference.

In short, three for three.

Chris - was the Frankenchicken cooked sous vide before frying?

[runwestierun]

Chris - was the Frankenchicken cooked sous vide before frying?

That's it! Tomorrow's dinner is Frankenchicken and Molecular Mac-n-Cheese!

[KennethT]

Chris - everything looked great! Does the book go into the reasons behind the vodka brine? What's the purpose of it?

[Chris Amirault]

Chris - was the Frankenchicken cooked sous vide before frying?

Yep: post-brine (see below), you repackage and SV the meat at 64C/147F for 2h.

Chris - everything looked great! Does the book go into the reasons behind the vodka brine? What's the purpose of it?

The book doesn't talk about the vodka brine in particular (that I can find), but earlier in the frying section it discusses the effects of alcohol in batters. Reading that, I surmise that, because the alcohol in the brine evaporates at a lower temperature than water, you both dry out the surface of the meat more effectively and keep the interior from overcooking.

[LoftyNotions]

The lowest price I've seen on a vacuum chamber sealer was for the ARY VP-210. Costco carries them for about $900.00. This machine evacuates the chamber for a fixed time, not to a specific vacuum level. The pump mechanism is a self-lubricated rocker pump which probably isn't quite as good as a rotary oil pump. Reviews for home or light commercial use have been pretty good though.

Units like the Minipack-torre MVS31 that pull a specific vacuum and have rotary oil vacuum pumps are more in the $2,000 range.

[Wayt Gibbs]

Modernist Cuisine/sous vide/butchering. Last night I put a boneless rib eye roast into my sous vide. As I was preparing the roast, again I wondered how much more a roast or a steak or say a rack of lamb ribs need to be butchered. Obviously, silver skin needs removal. My instinct is to shave off the larger caps of fat one finds based upon my guess that at the lower temperatures of doneness, the fat does not sufficiently melt. If I were conventionally roasting, the melting of the fat would take place and further act as a basting or at least render more. Should we cut off the extra fat, but leave the excess in the bags or does this not aid much in flavor development? My practice is to season, sous vide and then sear, while I have seen opinion that pre-searing may be better.

Which also brings up the second question of how 'hot' meat done sous vide is at the table, versus the still sizzling one might find from a steak just off the grill. To compensate and give the expected warmness someone expects when dinner is served, do you heat the plates or how exactly do you keep the food warm?

Modernist Cuisine research chef Grant Crilly answers:

There are several thing to consider when cooking a steak (rib steak) sous vide.

One is the thickness of the meat. If it is much thicker than an inch or two, I would not preseason it. In the amount of time that it takes to reach your core temp, the salt will toughen the surface of the meat and remove lots of moisture.

A second consideration is which cut/rib along the rib primal does your steak come from?

Steaks cut toward the front of the animal contain a larger portion of the tender muscle known as the “deckle” or “cap.” In such cases, you might want to separate the muscles and cook them at different temperatures (a procedure we describe in the book). Toward the rear of the primal, the eye increases in size and starts to become the New York. You can cook a steak of that kind in one piece with no problems.

You have several approaches to remedy the fat problem. You can cook the meat at a slightly hotter temperature, such as 58 °C / 136 °F, for a touch longer. Doing this helps to soften the fat in a rib eye quite a bit. The average rib steak is a touch more tender at this temperature anyways. I usually use this approach at home.

Alternatively, you can remove the fat completely. Or you can sear the fat, and place it back into the bag. Yet another option is to pierce the fat with a pin many times to help rupture the cell walls that contain it. In the book, you'll find an illustrated step-by-step procedure for preparing duck that shows how to do this with a dog brush. (Be sure to use a new one!)

I myself always prefer to sear after the cooking, for a couple of reasons.

First, you lose your crust if you presear; it sort of steeps in the bag like tea. The color in your sear will pale and leach out, making for a pretty sad-looking piece of meat. If you want the flavor, slice off a little bit, and sear those pieces, then place them in the bag.

Second, searing just before serving brings the surface temp up considerably. You can fry the steak, place it in a very hot convection oven, or sear traditionally in a very hot pan. Always take care to sear in a hotter-than-normal method, however, so that searing occurs as fast as possible. This helps get it to the table at a good eating temp.

As for warming the plates, that is always a nice thing when serving hot food.

One last thing to keep in mind with a cut like the New York and rib steak: the muscle fibers run parallel to the thickness of the steak you are cooking. Yet most people still cut along the fibers on the plate at the table. If you as the cook simply precut the steak at a 45° angle, you will effectively tenderize the steak a great deal. A cheaper steak prepared this way will often enough seem more tender that a more expensive steak prepared and cut in a typical way. For a large roast, cutting very thin slices achieves similar results.

You'll find many more tips and techniques like this in the book.

[ermintrude]

I had a go at the mac and cheese, all a bit haphazard but was 700g of cheese (Gruyère 300g, Cheddar 300g, 100g Mahon).

Took 400ml of Theakstons Old Peculiar into thermomix set to varomma temp (i.e >100C) and brought to a boil to get rid of the alcohol. Then at about speed 8 added 3 teaspoons of sodium citrate and 4g of Kappa turned speed down and added the cheese bit by bit, turning up the speed to chop and using a spatula to wipe the sides down. Added salt, minced garlic, pepper then 1/2 thought sod cool and grate and used over mac straight away. The rest put into a dish to cool.

Was probably the most cheesy version I had ever tasted, but slightly off taste wise perhaps less beer and sodium citrate, perfectly edible but could do better (Amazon has April 4th for me).

The 1/2 I left to cool, had an off colour (the beer) and the texture was almost processed cheese but a bit less rubbery however it melts like a dream and will not split, so ate that today stirred into more pasta. Even a nuke in the microwave I could not make it split.

Just need the precise measurements I guess to get it perfect.

[Todd in Chicago]

Hi Chris....

Sounds awesome! I can't wait! My preorder was in on July 17th, so I'm wondering where that ends up in the "queue".

The best mac and cheese I've had was one at a no longer open restaurant in Chicago called "Rushmore" in which they made it with smoked gouda. I would LOVE to try this recipe with smoked gouda! CANNOT WAIT!!

Todd in Chicago

[Chris Amirault]

I had a go at the mac and cheese, all a bit haphazard but was 700g of cheese (Gruyère 300g, Cheddar 300g, 100g Mahon).

Took 400ml of Theakstons Old Peculiar into thermomix set to varomma temp (i.e >100C) and brought to a boil to get rid of the alcohol. Then at about speed 8 added 3 teaspoons of sodium citrate and 4g of Kappa turned speed down and added the cheese bit by bit, turning up the speed to chop and using a spatula to wipe the sides down.

Why the kappa carrageenan? I don't have the book handy, but I'm pretty sure the iota and kappa are very different.